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Voncarsteine

Experienced beginner skipping a ship

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Good evening everybody,

 

I've been trying out different line as of late, and I found I enjoy a few lines. 

Thing is, I read how some of the next ships in the line are 'not that good'. Or just plain bad. 

So I was thinking, i have 150k free xp now and I can skip the crappiest ship.

 

I do well in Farragut and Jervis. I think Mahan is crap, so I can skip that one. Lightning is good so I can just grind him. Still torn between Gearing and Daring though.

I do well in New Mexico, with 71% wins, and it's by far the BB I play best in. So I can skip Colorado, which is crap apparently. North Carolina seems like a very good ship, so no problem after Colorado anymore. Gneisenau with 53% wins not that good for me, but I don't feel like skipping it for Bismarck. Need to train my captain a bit more, he's only 11 points atm. 

Fiji with 58% wins is also fine, but Edinburgh seems like it's crap. Neptune and Minotaur are good, so I can skip Edinburgh. 

I'm still trying to decide to go for Worcester or Des Moines; Des Moines seems like it's a bit harder to kill and not as situational as Worcester, but I can't get New Orleans working for me. Cleveland on the other hand, with 57% wins, is fine by me. So I can skip New Orleans. 

 

And then the questions I'd like your input on:

Is New Mexico any resemblance to NC / Iowa / Montana? 

Same for Fiji to Neptune / Minotaur

Same for Farragut to Benson / Fletcher / Gearing. Daring seems like a stronger line to follow with Daring beating Gearing in every aspect except torpedo range. And I can't get Mahan working. Bad concealment, bad torpedoes, bad armor. Farragut is working fine for me though, I don't see how Mahan is that much worse in practice. 

Same for New Orleans to Des Moines. I have a feeling these ships don't really change as much as New Mexico vs Montana does. 

 

The reason i ask is so I don't 'waste' my 150k Free xp.

 

Thanks in advance!

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1 hour ago, Voncarsteine said:

And then the questions I'd like your input on:

1 Is New Mexico any resemblance to NC / Iowa / Montana? 

2 Same for Fiji to Neptune / Minotaur

3 Same for Farragut to Benson / Fletcher / Gearing. Daring seems like a stronger line to follow with Daring beating Gearing in every aspect except torpedo range. And I can't get Mahan working. Bad concealment, bad torpedoes, bad armor. 4 4 Farragut is working fine for me though, I don't see how Mahan is that much worse in practice. 

5 Same for New Orleans to Des Moines. I have a feeling these ships don't really change as much as New Mexico vs Montana does. 

 

  1. No
  2. Yes, somewhat, but higher Tiers ships are more sluggish
  3. No, the US DD line changes with Mahan (Stealthtorps) and then with Benson (becomes stealthy).
  4. Mahan is a good DD
  5. they are similar, but the maps and meta changes, you need a lot of practice to play US Cruiser in High Tier.
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In short: Don't skip tiers.

In Long: Don't skip tiers.

TL;DR: Don't skip tier.

To sum it up: Don't skip tiers.

Why: Learn the game and learn the ships.

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Keep the free XP for researching modules so you never have to play stock ships. Keep it for nice premium ships like Nelson and Musashi. Do not use free xp to skip entire ships, skip last 300 xp of the grind is fine. Every ship teaches you something, you lose out on a learning experience. What good is it to have a tier 10 ship when your skills are at tier 4?

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16 hours ago, Ze_Reckless said:

Keep the free XP for researching modules so you never have to play stock ships. Keep it for nice premium ships like Nelson and Musashi. Do not use free xp to skip entire ships, skip last 300 xp of the grind is fine. Every ship teaches you something, you lose out on a learning experience. What good is it to have a tier 10 ship when your skills are at tier 4?

Thanks for your reply. I understand skipping tiers has a risk of skills not keeping up. I only want to skip the crappy ships though, either Colorado or Mahan. 

 

If Benson is anything like Farragut, I'll expect to do fine in it. Mahan on the other hand has horrible concealment, even with my 12 pt captain. Benson, fletcher and gearing all seem to be great ships so I won't skip any of those. 

 

Colorado is just too slow for its tier, it cant react or escape and is by far weakest of the tier 7 bbs, or so it seems. I wont skip NC or Iowa since their grinds are not that hard. 

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17 hours ago, ColonelPete said:
  1. No
  2. Yes, somewhat, but higher Tiers ships are more sluggish
  3. No, the US DD line changes with Mahan (Stealthtorps) and then with Benson (becomes stealthy).
  4. Mahan is a good DD
  5. they are similar, but the maps and meta changes, you need a lot of practice to play US Cruiser in High Tier.

Thanks for your reply! 

 

I can't get Mahan to work for me, it's nothing like Farragut somehow. Benson seems good and much more like Farragut. And the ships after Benson are all similar. What is point of Mahan? What is it supposed to teach me other than not losing my patience? Its not a torpedo boat because it can't stealth torp and its concealment is not good enough to sneak around. It's not fast enough. And the gun arcs are not suited for long range play. So I was thinking to just skip it, and get to Farragut 2.0 which is the Benson. The again, Daring seems like it's better than gearing in everything though. 

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Mahan is ***** for the birds, not only is its concealment atrocious even by t7 standards (which are very low by comparison to t5-6) but it's completely hopeless in DD combat when uptiered at all. I don't recommend spending FXP to skip ships unless you're positive you don't want any current or future FXP premiums (and how would you be?) but theoretically if I had to grind every line and could choose to skip my least favorite ships, Mahan would be one of them. Otherwise it's a nice ship, but its gets outspotted by almost every DD it meets, which is a huge deal especially with those shell arcs.

 

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23 minutes ago, Voncarsteine said:

Thanks for your reply. I understand skipping tiers has a risk of skills not keeping up. I only want to skip the crappy ships though, either Colorado or Mahan. 

 

If Benson is anything like Farragut, I'll expect to do fine in it. Mahan on the other hand has horrible concealment, even with my 12 pt captain. Benson, fletcher and gearing all seem to be great ships so I won't skip any of those. 

 

Colorado is just too slow for its tier, it cant react or escape and is by far weakest of the tier 7 bbs, or so it seems. I wont skip NC or Iowa since their grinds are not that hard. 

I had the same problems with Mahan. I ended up quitting that line for a while and later grind it in coop (slowly!).

If you have less patience, you could opt to level Mahan in operations, but not all are suited for it.

 

Colorado was doable, but was also a slow grind.

 

I kept all fxp and played my ships stock. Higher tier ships I play in coop till I have at least the most essential parts unlocked.

Yes this takes time, but I have ample choice as I'm grinding so many lines at the same time.

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1 hour ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I had the same problems with Mahan. I ended up quitting that line for a while and later grind it in coop (slowly!).

If you have less patience, you could opt to level Mahan in operations, but not all are suited for it.

 

Colorado was doable, but was also a slow grind.

 

I kept all fxp and played my ships stock. Higher tier ships I play in coop till I have at least the most essential parts unlocked.

Yes this takes time, but I have ample choice as I'm grinding so many lines at the same time.

Have you tried lightning to daring? Daring seems much better than gearing. I'll skip Mahan if gearing still has a place in this game

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1 hour ago, Voncarsteine said:

Thanks for your reply. I understand skipping tiers has a risk of skills not keeping up. I only want to skip the crappy ships though, either Colorado or Mahan. 

 

If Benson is anything like Farragut, I'll expect to do fine in it. Mahan on the other hand has horrible concealment, even with my 12 pt captain. Benson, fletcher and gearing all seem to be great ships so I won't skip any of those. 

 

Colorado is just too slow for its tier, it cant react or escape and is by far weakest of the tier 7 bbs, or so it seems. I wont skip NC or Iowa since their grinds are not that hard. 

 

The Mahan wasn't fun for me but it wasn't so bad that I would skip it. I looked at your Mahan stats, now I understand what you mean (0/10 wins). Either you were extremely unlucky or you don't know how to make the Mahan work. There is only one person who knows if you should do it: you.

The Colorado isn't terrible, I kept her in my port and I sail her every now and then. She has good armor, hard hitting accurate guns and a good heal; the only downside is the speed. Again, only you know if you can make her work.

 

In general, different people prefer different ships. Sometimes a ship clicks with you from the first battle, sometimes you need to learn how to play the ship for 20 - 30 battles. Don't write off a ship after reading bad reviews or forum threads. Try for yourself before you decide or you might miss a ship that is fun for you.

 

Edit: Lightning to Jutland are very good ships. The Gearing is a very good ship, especially with the legendary module (5.6 km concealment).

Edited by Ze_Reckless

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2 hours ago, Ze_Reckless said:

 

The Mahan wasn't fun for me but it wasn't so bad that I would skip it. I looked at your Mahan stats, now I understand what you mean (0/10 wins). Either you were extremely unlucky or you don't know how to make the Mahan work. There is only one person who knows if you should do it: you.

The Colorado isn't terrible, I kept her in my port and I sail her every now and then. She has good armor, hard hitting accurate guns and a good heal; the only downside is the speed. Again, only you know if you can make her work.

 

In general, different people prefer different ships. Sometimes a ship clicks with you from the first battle, sometimes you need to learn how to play the ship for 20 - 30 battles. Don't write off a ship after reading bad reviews or forum threads. Try for yourself before you decide or you might miss a ship that is fun for you.

 

Edit: Lightning to Jutland are very good ships. The Gearing is a very good ship, especially with the legendary module (5.6 km concealment).

Yeah, while I don't think I suck at DD. I do very well in Farragut at tier 6, gnevny at tier 6 and Jervis at tier 7. 72, 58 and 62% wins respectively. So Mahan is not for me. Question then remains: if Mahan is not for me, then are Benson, Fletcher and Gearing for me? Are they more like Farragut or more like Mahan. 

 

And I still have hope, since most people dislike Mahan and love fletcher and gearing. 

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6 hours ago, Voncarsteine said:

Yeah, while I don't think I suck at DD. I do very well in Farragut at tier 6, gnevny at tier 6 and Jervis at tier 7. 72, 58 and 62% wins respectively. So Mahan is not for me. Question then remains: if Mahan is not for me, then are Benson, Fletcher and Gearing for me?

 

They're very similar but with much more competitive stealth and a few incremental upgrades of course along with access to more modifications.

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Never skip a ship.

You skip the experience gained playing it. By which I mean your actual playing experience, not the in-game currency.

I've done it, and regretted it every time.

There are also much better uses for the free XP. You can skip the occasional bad stock module if it really gets too unenjoyable. Even that is questionable though, especially with the masses of power camos and flags WG showers upon users these days. 150k is almost half a Nelson already.

 

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The Mahan is nothing like the high tier DDs simply because of her bad concealment. Chances are you will love the Benson, the following two are even better.

 

Your Benson, Fletcher, Gearing won't suffer if you skip the Mahan. You could keep her and try her later when you have some more high tier DD experience if you like.

There is one thing you should know when you skip a ship: You skip a lot of xp for your captain as well. You might want to play your Farragut a bit longer so your captain is at the same level as he would be when you played the Mahan.

 

With Farragut and Mahan you see some radar ships, Benson to Gearing pretty much always see radar ships with longer range and longer lasting radar. Also, everyone has better accuracy so they can hit you more easily. DD life at high tier is dangerous, the Farragut allows for more mistakes.

With a 19 point captain there is a lot of builds you can use on the Gearing, pure gunboat, pure torpedo boat, full AA, hybrid.

 

The Daring is very strong but I wouldn't say she is stronger than the Gearing. They have different roles. As a pure gunboat I prefer the Daring for her AP.

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5 hours ago, MoveZig said:

 

They're very similar but with much more competitive stealth and a few incremental upgrades of course along with access to more modifications.

Hmm so if I understand you correctly, Mahan is similar to Benson, Fletcher and Gearing in playstyle, as is Farragut. But much more competitive in concealment and firepower. Is Mahan just a weak brother in the line, where its just that little worse than other ships in the tier, where Benson and up, and Farragut and down, are fine for their respective tier? 

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27 minutes ago, Voncarsteine said:

Hmm so if I understand you correctly, Mahan is similar to Benson, Fletcher and Gearing in playstyle, as is Farragut. But much more competitive in concealment and firepower. Is Mahan just a weak brother in the line, where its just that little worse than other ships in the tier, where Benson and up, and Farragut and down, are fine for their respective tier? 

I struggled with the Mahan aswell (even though I started to like it towards the end) and it mainly comes down to awkward characteristics. Concealment is pretty bad and it has a pretty low HP pool, not a brilliant combo. The ships with worse concealment tends to have higher HP or speed (Maas and Minsk) so getting stuck with the worst of two worlds is not great.

 

Gun power is not bad though, but again, not brilliant either. Essentially the same firepower as the Farragut but the Farragut is a tier lower. And when compared to the Sims the Sims boast a longer range and insanely fast turrets so gun handling is just better.

 

Torps are again not that special. 8 torps per side and an extra 4 with good enough range but low damage and slow speed. And not that good reload either. I have had more sucess with the Sims sea mine torps, but since those torps reload so fast, have the same range and really low detection you can actually use them better.

 

So yeah, the Mahan is not brilliant. You can play it and get alright results in it but compared to the Farragut it only really gives you a stealth torp option. 

 

The Benson is great however, since it takes the problems of the Mahan and fixes them. Better stealth, torps and gun handling for a much more enjoyable package.

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16 hours ago, Voncarsteine said:

Have you tried lightning to daring? Daring seems much better than gearing. I'll skip Mahan if gearing still has a place in this game

I'm at Lightning atm.

 

I haven't played either tier 10 iirc, not even on PTS. Very maybe I did play Gearing on PTS but if so this was like a year ago and I can't even remember lol.

 

I remember when I started, Fletcher was supposedly where many would end the line, but I don't know if Gearing received any buffs last year that aren't generic DD buffs.

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Colorado is a good ship and I recommend you don't skip it. Ship only does 21 knots, but after New Mexico you should be used to that and you finally get guns that are somewhat accurate and benefit from significant overmatch. It'll help when moving on to NC as the NC basically is even more accurate, with even slower shells. Ship gets faster at least. But there really is little reason to skip Colorado.

12 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I remember when I started, Fletcher was supposedly where many would end the line, but I don't know if Gearing received any buffs last year that aren't generic DD buffs.

It got Fletcher torpedoes.

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Voncarstiene - one thing you are not thinking about & that is Cpt points. Sure you can buy a 3 pter for each ship you start out but at high tiers a low pt Cpt just won't cut it.

This is why you should put in the Grind Time. Also, as someone already mentioned - you must upgrade all modules and buy all the upgrades. Stock Ships just don't cut it.

I only ever jumped with Free Exp one tier & that was T9 Ijn BB cause I didn't like Izumo's look. Everything else I grind/ground out earning my way to what I have.

I have not used premiums to jump tiers either - I mean, we all like noobs in high tiers (don't we?) (LOL)

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21 minutes ago, antean said:

Voncarstiene - one thing you are not thinking about & that is Cpt points. Sure you can buy a 3 pter for each ship you start out but at high tiers a low pt Cpt just won't cut it.

This is why you should put in the Grind Time. Also, as someone already mentioned - you must upgrade all modules and buy all the upgrades. Stock Ships just don't cut it.

I only ever jumped with Free Exp one tier & that was T9 Ijn BB cause I didn't like Izumo's look. Everything else I grind/ground out earning my way to what I have.

I have not used premiums to jump tiers either - I mean, we all like noobs in high tiers (don't we?) (LOL)

Heya, Thanks for the tip. I was planning on getting my Farragut capt to 19 points, then skip Mahan and jump into Benson. I have xp flags plenty, 500 50% xp and the other weird flags with 150 this 100% of that, hydra etc. Using the flags to boost Farragut captain gets me 10k xp sometimes in a good game. 

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2 minutes ago, Voncarsteine said:

Heya, Thanks for the tip

btw, my main account is in NA (8K battles). Here, I'm just F2P with not many battles tho I now have two T8s (both freebies, btw) ( I sure needed a credit grinder) (black Mass, lol)

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8 hours ago, Voncarsteine said:

Hmm so if I understand you correctly, Mahan is similar to Benson, Fletcher and Gearing in playstyle, as is Farragut. But much more competitive in concealment and firepower. Is Mahan just a weak brother in the line, where its just that little worse than other ships in the tier, where Benson and up, and Farragut and down, are fine for their respective tier? 

 

With Farragut you are forced into knifefighting because of the effective range of the guns and torps. With Mahan you get bettter torps but none of the stealth you need to be an effective torpedoboat with enemy DDs around, nor the HP to shrug off some hits like the Germans, nor even guns that are reliable within your spotting range against DDs, nor the speed to close the distance or get away. You know it's bad when Japan outstealths, outruns and outguns you (Akatsuki). It's like the smoke is supposed to make up for everything but guess what, t7 is where radar starts to appear, and there's guaranteed to be some if you get uptiered.

 

Most of this stuff gets better at the higher tiers, though the smoke is still questionable with so much radar around, DD hydro and the smoke bloom changes. Honestly right now I'd rather go up the PA line and get Chung Mu (and I did). Now that said, if the CV rework is as bad for DD play as rumored, US DDs may be one of the most appealing options thanks to Defensive AA. Assuming they get  to keep  it.

 

Normally for a bad ship I'd advise using ops to get through it, but the ones at t7 are the hardest/most frustrating by some margin. Except Dynamo. Come to think of, don't spend a single FXP on Mahan, just spam Dynamo with it. Plenty of people farming it these days.

 

22 hours ago, Ze_Reckless said:

The Colorado isn't terrible, I kept her in my port and I sail her every now and then. She has good armor

 

Eh, gotta disagree on that. All-or-nothing armor schemes don't work well in the game. It's covered in plating that gets overmatched by the average t7 BB guns and many t6. Cruisers love it too. All it has going for it is it's difficult to citadel but you shouldn't be broadsiding regardless. I've also seen quite a few cits through the bow in close quarters, even with some angling.

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11 hours ago, Voncarsteine said:

I was planning on getting my Farragut capt to 19 points

No need, 14 should be plenty enough for the Benson. It takes a lot of time to grind the last 3 - 5 points.

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