Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
GudmundurG

P.E.Friedrich knife fight with cruisers AP over penetration

28 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
89 posts

I am losing knife fights against cruisers in P.E.Friedrich because of this little damage AP broadside salvos. Whats the best thing to do? Switch ammo to HE before going in close fights against cruisers?

 

overpen.jpg.7b28d13b3dda62fd73c72b8add801429.jpgclose.j.jpg.b975666d5652784bb724ec7e2e10815e.jpg
 

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BYOB]
Players
3,467 posts
12,395 battles
3 minutes ago, GudmundurG said:

I am loosing knife fights against cruisers in P.E.Friedrich because of this little damage AP broadside salvos. Whats the best thing to do? Switch ammo to HE before going in close fights against cruisers?

 

overpen.jpg.7b28d13b3dda62fd73c72b8add801429.jpgclose.j.jpg.b975666d5652784bb724ec7e2e10815e.jpg
 

Play a real battleship? Because when uptiered PEF is absolute garbage.

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TTT]
Players
4,214 posts
7,925 battles

don't brawl a Hipper in the first place? Not a good idea for any Battleship, let alone a crappy low tier one...

high tier German cruisers tend to be nigh-on impossible to citadel up close... although you getting overpens and not even regular pens does suggest you were either aiming poorly or at sub-2km (which doest really compute with you getting out more than one salvo)

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
89 posts
21 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

don't brawl a Hipper in the first place? Not a good idea for any Battleship, let alone a crappy low tier one...

high tier German cruisers tend to be nigh-on impossible to citadel up close... although you getting overpens and not even regular pens does suggest you were either aiming poorly or at sub-2km (which doest really compute with you getting out more than one salvo)

Sub-2km It was 2 ships against 2 in a middle of a storm in a a cap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,685 posts
2,941 battles
12 minutes ago, GudmundurG said:

Sub-2km It was 2 ships against 2 in a middle of a storm in a a cap.

If I'm low tier and a storm comes up and I am near a cap, I load the HE...

Unless all DDs are dead I'll probably meet one. And everything else is probably not broadside at 10km.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,608 posts
5,708 battles
47 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

don't brawl a Hipper in the first place? Not a good idea for any Battleship, let alone a crappy low tier one...

high tier German cruisers tend to be nigh-on impossible to citadel up close... although you getting overpens and not even regular pens does suggest you were either aiming poorly or at sub-2km (which doest really compute with you getting out more than one salvo)

This. If you see a Hipper, turn and kite, unless you fancy eating up to 12 torps. That's not even a PEF issue, but applies to all T6 BBs, with only Mutsu and WV being able to effectively deal with an angled Hipper/Eugen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
1,704 posts
6,682 battles

Yeap, PEF it's crap.

 

yesterday in co-op i runned into a couple of them with my Bayern.

 

Brawling 5/6 kms of each other, full salvos at the bot broadside waterline level, mid ship, nothing not one citadel.

 

again

 

Brawling 5/6 km s of each other, full salvo at the bot broadside, mid level under the first turret, nothing (torpedoe belt)?

 

again

 

Brawling, under 5 kms, salvo at the bot broadside, mid ship, nothing.

 

only one citadel eventually.

 

3 ore fa, GudmundurG ha scritto:

I am losing knife fights against cruisers in P.E.Friedrich because of this little damage AP broadside salvos. Whats the best thing to do? Switch ammo to HE before going in close fights against cruisers?

 

overpen.jpg.7b28d13b3dda62fd73c72b8add801429.jpgclose.j.jpg.b975666d5652784bb724ec7e2e10815e.jpg
 

Take gneisenau, that ship brawl everything

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DREAD]
Players
6,075 posts
5,294 battles
15 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

You don't brawl Hippers in Gneisenau. You kite them.

 

Hippers are not particularly scary though. Torps are only 6km and their guns won’t hurt that much during the brawl. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,608 posts
5,708 battles
3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Hippers are not particularly scary though. Torps are only 6km and their guns won’t hurt that much during the brawl. 

And if you kite them, neither is scary. Just keep within 8 km and let secondaries work them over. But no point in risking getting torped and losing large chunks of hp that cannot be recovered.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DREAD]
Players
6,075 posts
5,294 battles
Just now, ColonelPete said:

Hippers can get full pens on BB at close range. THAT can hurt.

 

Find them not overly scary. Their AP easily bounces due to non-premium angles. US heavy shells are more scary. But of course you guys are having a point. No value in risking your T6 HP bag against a T8 cruiser you can’t overmatch and which can still torp you. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
1,704 posts
6,682 battles
4 hours ago, GudmundurG said:

I am losing knife fights against cruisers in P.E.Friedrich because of this little damage AP broadside salvos. Whats the best thing to do? Switch ammo to HE before going in close fights against cruisers?

 

overpen.jpg.7b28d13b3dda62fd73c72b8add801429.jpgclose.j.jpg.b975666d5652784bb724ec7e2e10815e.jpg
 

Now, in a more serious note.

Don't brawl any cruiser.

the majority of them angle against a bb, they don't intend to brawl. so if you see a cruiser close to you run the other way.

Majority of cruisers decide that burning  a gneise/schar/tirp  at distance it's the best thing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,608 posts
5,708 battles
50 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

Now, in a more serious note.

Don't brawl any cruiser.

the majority of them angle against a bb, they don't intend to brawl. so if you see a cruiser close to you run the other way.

Majority of cruisers decide that burning  a gneise/schar/tirp  at distance it's the best thing to do.

Given the majority of cruisers is not good in brawls with BBs, I don't think you can say that you shouldn't brawl a cruiser. Like, unless you show broadside, what's a New Orleans going to do to your T5 BB even? Majority of cruisers decide to burn you at a distance, because they have to, but that doesn't mean you should not brawl these cruisers when you can. Just be aware of the potential torpedo and AP threats they pose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,685 posts
2,941 battles
4 hours ago, Riselotte said:

You don't brawl Hippers in Gneisenau. You kite them.

 I think you'll do fine (until he has reloaded the torps). :Smile_trollface:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,608 posts
5,708 battles
1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

 I think you'll do fine (until he has reloaded the torps). :Smile_trollface:

Doesn't matter. They cannot run you down and torp you. Gneisenau is basically as fast as Hipper.Even if you were kiting them at 5 km, torps would run out before reaching you and they get pummelled by stock secondaries. Nevermind if you secondary spec that you can stay at 6 km and still have 2 km of range to play with. Basically the smartest thing the Hipper at that point could do is either do a turn if he can make sure that you won't be able to fire AP at him in time to punish him, or stop and reverse, hoping you get beyond secondary range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,685 posts
2,941 battles
5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Doesn't matter. They cannot run you down and torp you. Gneisenau is basically as fast as Hipper.Even if you were kiting them at 5 km, torps would run out before reaching you and they get pummelled by stock secondaries. Nevermind if you secondary spec that you can stay at 6 km and still have 2 km of range to play with. Basically the smartest thing the Hipper at that point could do is either do a turn if he can make sure that you won't be able to fire AP at him in time to punish him, or stop and reverse, hoping you get beyond secondary range.

You are right... ( and didn't see the troll face I guess). 

The only time when you MUST fight Hipper is when you have a much slower ship. 

So that would be a Colorado or any tier 6 US BB. Uhh... and then you'd be screwed if you came too close. 

Still better to run for it and shoot backwards (can't call it 'kiting'... a US BB is nowhere comparable to a kite...).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,608 posts
5,708 battles
7 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

You are right... ( and didn't see the troll face I guess). 

The only time when you MUST fight Hipper is when you have a much slower ship. 

So that would be a Colorado or any tier 6 US BB. Uhh... and then you'd be screwed if you came too close. 

Still better to run for it and shoot backwards (can't call it 'kiting'... a US BB is nowhere comparable to a kite...).

 

Colorado overmatches Hipper and can delete it in 2-4 salvos up close. T6 BBs except WV should load HE if the Hipper knows how to angle. But yes, turning around and drawing out the fight is the best option in any BB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,685 posts
2,941 battles
4 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Colorado overmatches Hipper and can delete it in 2-4 salvos up close. T6 BBs except WV should load HE if the Hipper knows how to angle. But yes, turning around and drawing out the fight is the best option in any BB.

Yes I know, Colorado can (WV-41 too, probably)... 2-4 salvos however takes a minute or two... and you better have sacrificed your goats to RNGesus.

I have had those meetings with Hipper in the Arizona and New Mex. ROFL. In the beginning I thought, hey a cruiser, yummie food. Oh boy... :Smile_facepalm:

By now I have at least managed the art of taking them down with me... :Smile_trollface:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUCA]
Weekend Tester
942 posts
4,306 battles

You citadel them to crap from 12-14 km. Why the hell are you brawling? Your guns are really accurate and can just instagib cruisers from a bit further back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[L4GG]
Players
1,704 posts
6,682 battles
7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

Given the majority of cruisers is not good in brawls with BBs, I don't think you can say that you shouldn't brawl a cruiser. Like, unless you show broadside, what's a New Orleans going to do to your T5 BB even? Majority of cruisers decide to burn you at a distance, because they have to, but that doesn't mean you should not brawl these cruisers when you can. Just be aware of the potential torpedo and AP threats they pose.

 

It's not just AP and torps.

Why would a cruiser brawl a bb? It makes no sense, even the few, the happy few, that can tank bb salvos do it with a goal.

One of the goals is rushing a bb, a danger business, but very doable under certain circumstances, such as, environment, players, situation.

Gneisenau/scharn it's not a bb good to rush, not  only because of torps but because of the reload time and manoeuvrability .

 BBs that only rely on guns Shouldn't brawl cruisers, BBs with a longer reload time shouldn't brawl cruisers.

 

While in a gneise you can brawl other gneise, with a Bayern (e.g.) it's a different story. With a Bayern you can brawl a gneise to a certain point, if you forget the torps, you still have worse reload, worse manoeuvrability.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,608 posts
5,708 battles
5 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

 

It's not just AP and torps.

Why would a cruiser brawl a bb? It makes no sense, even the few, the happy few, that can tank bb salvos do it with a goal.

One of the goals is rushing a bb, a danger business, but very doable under certain circumstances, such as, environment, players, situation.

Gneisenau/scharn it's not a bb good to rush, not  only because of torps but because of the reload time and manoeuvrability .

 BBs that only rely on guns Shouldn't brawl cruisers, BBs with a longer reload time shouldn't brawl cruisers.

 

While in a gneise you can brawl other gneise, with a Bayern (e.g.) it's a different story. With a Bayern you can brawl a gneise to a certain point, if you forget the torps, you still have worse reload, worse manoeuvrability.

 

 

If you brawl a Gneisenau in Bayern you are basically hoping the Gneisenau is incompetent or distracted. Otherwise, no, you don't brawl Gneisenau in Bayern. Bayern is no less going to die than any other T6 BB that tries to 1v1 a competent Gneisenau. On the other side, a Kongou could likely beat a Gneisenau if the enemy player is dumb enough, thus we don't factor in incompetence for this.

 

Then, a cruiser might brawl a BB with an objective, yes. But who cares? Typically, unless you were caught of guard (in which case, you have no real choice anyway), you can see it coming and just decide whether to kite, brawl or not. If I see a Nürnberg trying to brawl, I don't need to worry about some objective of his. That guy's likely either too dumb or too desperate and as long as I mind the torps, any BB at close range utterly annihilates a Nürnberg. Thus, there's often zero reason for a BB not to get closer, as long as they are aware of the torpedo threads. It is up to the cruiser to stay away. In this sense, BBs also exert area control through their presence, while staying away cedes ground. 

 

The only chance a cruiser could ever have in a brawl with Bs that overmatch would be to outrun the gun turrets at very close range. Which is possible, but by that point, the BB f-ed up massively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×