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davidsturm6597

How to save World of Warships from going the way of World of Tanks

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I have in my WoT garage a T-50-2; that means I’ve played it for a long time. Now – at the end of 2018 I’m frankly bored with the game. My stats are very average – but I’ll play the game for an hour or so a week – just to see my fav tanks in action and to blow-sh*t-up. I’ll also play to justify the cash I’ve sunk into the game – with the Premium tanks I’ve bought. What’s my point?

 

Since World of Warships is underneath the cowl – World of Tanks – with minor changes in pace and economy; with major difference in cosmetics alone, at some point I’ll also get bored with World of Warships. The eye candy of the capital ships will taste less sweet over time and the novelty of being a commander of a monster Battleship – will be forgotten. As I started with WoT – wanting to play the Tiger 1, I’ve started playing WoWs for the chance of seeing the Nelson or Yamato in action. I will get bored eventually because the gameplay is tedious.

 

So – how to make it better and in the process make it reflect real sea battles? The game-concept of “capturing the flag” should first-of-all be dropped from WoWs, as wholly inappropriate; capping and defending circles should be consigned to WoT alone. If people want to get off on capping circles – those crazy “gaming circle jerks” – let them play WoT.

 

Capturing the flag should be replaced with the Naval concept of “Crossing the T.” I realize that this classic naval warfare tactic used from the late 19th to mid 20th centuries, may not work with Battleships perfectly since it places emphasis on attack and sacrifices defence capacities by placing the ship broadside on – in order to maximize firepower, but the tactic brings in the crucial idea of fleet formations. Yes; I want to force each player into occupying a position in a potential fleet-formation template for attacking or defending. It will remove the scourge of Random things done by crazy or new players, whilst sensible players are forced to carry the whole team…which is what happens in WoT.

 

Naval battles are very much orchestrated from the start; they are not a free-for-all mellay that starts in total confusion – ending in more confusion at the end. It should be a case that a dispersed team – should be losing, not winning because of a clock or circle they’ve captured. This aspect of WoWs gameplay – is a continuation of WoT game play; capping is acceptable in WoT – but it should not win the day in WoWs. A single remaining destroyer that runs away or hides against 5 remaining enemy ships – should not win the game; it is just plain unfair for a game to reward cowardice.

 

So – I realize the majority of WoWs players will hate the idea of being forced into formations or battle fleet positons where their ships can’t roam around as they please – as they can now. But think about Football; the players can’t roam around on the pitch where they want. They have to occupy certain key positions; like forward, right back, right midfielder and so on. No one who loves Football (Soccer) complains that this arrangement restricts the skill and opportunity for each player to shine. Specifying a destroyer/cruiser/capital ship’s position in a formation – should likewise not restrict the chance to shine for each player.

 

In WoWs (at least in Random game mode – which I play mostly since I’ve been groomed to do so from playing WoT) there is no insistence on following fleet battle formations. It’s chaos from the start - with each player expected to carry the team just like in World of Tanks. Maybe in Clan battles – there is a sense of keeping in “formation” or working as one team, but otherwise the same crap that WoT players put up with – is blatantly manifest in WoWs; like seasoned players lose because of new players not getting their sh*t together!

 

There is an opportunity to make World of Warship a great game – with a unique game-play all of its own and not a copy from another title. War Gaming will of course – continue with this boring “capture the flag” monopoly in game-play until the world ends, but someone has to mention to them that there is an alternative to the World of Tanks game play. Basing all their titles on WoT is just a plain untalented fail.

 

I may sound like I don’t like WoWs; but I do…I like it a lot. But imagine World of Submarines – with capture the flag? Really? We win by capping a circle in the ocean? Get creative W.G developers; WoT is boring me to tears – don’t let WoWs die the same death.  

Crossing_the_T_(naval_movement)_animated_anigif_2.gif

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This game was designed for 10 yr olds.

 

Ever tried to make 10 yr olds play at Varsity level team formations and stuff?

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so you want to have game modes that require even more team co operation? LMAO oh and i like the remove CVs tag in there too just for good measure... that will make the game much better (sarcasm if you couldn't tell)

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Another one with a *oner for "crossing the T" formation?

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16 minutes ago, davidsturm6597 said:

I have in my WoT garage a T-50-2; that means I’ve played it for a long time. Now – at the end of 2018 I’m frankly bored with the game. My stats are very average – but I’ll play the game for an hour or so a week – just to see my fav tanks in action and to blow-sh*t-up. I’ll also play to justify the cash I’ve sunk into the game – with the Premium tanks I’ve bought. What’s my point?

 

Since World of Warships is underneath the cowl – World of Tanks – with minor changes in pace and economy; with major difference in cosmetics alone, at some point I’ll also get bored with World of Warships. The eye candy of the capital ships will taste less sweet over time and the novelty of being a commander of a monster Battleship – will be forgotten. As I started with WoT – wanting to play the Tiger 1, I’ve started playing WoWs for the chance of seeing the Nelson or Yamato in action. I will get bored eventually because the gameplay is tedious.

 

So – how to make it better and in the process make it reflect real sea battles? The game-concept of “capturing the flag” should first-of-all be dropped from WoWs, as wholly inappropriate; capping and defending circles should be consigned to WoT alone. If people want to get off on capping circles – those crazy “gaming circle jerks” – let them play WoT.

 

Capturing the flag should be replaced with the Naval concept of “Crossing the T.” I realize that this classic naval warfare tactic used from the late 19th to mid 20th centuries, may not work with Battleships perfectly since it places emphasis on attack and sacrifices defence capacities by placing the ship broadside on – in order to maximize firepower, but the tactic brings in the crucial idea of fleet formations. Yes; I want to force each player into occupying a position in a potential fleet-formation template for attacking or defending. It will remove the scourge of Random things done by crazy or new players, whilst sensible players are forced to carry the whole team…which is what happens in WoT.

 

Naval battles are very much orchestrated from the start; they are not a free-for-all mellay that starts in total confusion – ending in more confusion at the end. It should be a case that a dispersed team – should be losing, not winning because of a clock or circle they’ve captured. This aspect of WoWs gameplay – is a continuation of WoT game play; capping is acceptable in WoT – but it should not win the day in WoWs. A single remaining destroyer that runs away or hides against 5 remaining enemy ships – should not win the game; it is just plain unfair for a game to reward cowardice.

 

So – I realize the majority of WoWs players will hate the idea of being forced into formations or battle fleet positons where their ships can’t roam around as they please – as they can now. But think about Football; the players can’t roam around on the pitch where they want. They have to occupy certain key positions; like forward, right back, right midfielder and so on. No one who loves Football (Soccer) complains that this arrangement restricts the skill and opportunity for each player to shine. Specifying a destroyer/cruiser/capital ship’s position in a formation – should likewise not restrict the chance to shine for each player.

 

In WoWs (at least in Random game mode – which I play mostly since I’ve been groomed to do so from playing WoT) there is no insistence on following fleet battle formations. It’s chaos from the start - with each player expected to carry the team just like in World of Tanks. Maybe in Clan battles – there is a sense of keeping in “formation” or working as one team, but otherwise the same crap that WoT players put up with – is blatantly manifest in WoWs; like seasoned players lose because of new players not getting their sh*t together!

 

There is an opportunity to make World of Warship a great game – with a unique game-play all of its own and not a copy from another title. War Gaming will of course – continue with this boring “capture the flag” monopoly in game-play until the world ends, but someone has to mention to them that there is an alternative to the World of Tanks game play. Basing all their titles on WoT is just a plain untalented fail.

 

I may sound like I don’t like WoWs; but I do…I like it a lot. But imagine World of Submarines – with capture the flag? Really? We win by capping a circle in the ocean? Get creative W.G developers; WoT is boring me to tears – don’t let WoWs die the same death. 

Soo... Could you take us through how a 20' battle of your design would play out, please?

I get that you don't like the current system and I agree there are flaws in it, but it's like democracy - sometimes the alternatives are just way worse. You want to force fleet formations... then what? How are they to be forced? What are the objectives? How would you get the 'fleet' to move and where is it supposed to move? Is there any reason to play anything but a battleship in your version?

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@davidsturm6597 average dmg 26k. Looks like your doing the same thing that you gave in your example - not able to fire at enemy/useless for your team/misposition. Instead of giving some stupid ideas better l2p. 

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Does the OP realise that "crossing the T" was a one off tactic that was never used again after Trafalgar?

 

Also any idiot who tried that tactic in 20th century warfare would likely kill the enemy Admiral...... With laughter, while watching his fleet be enveloped and torpedo'd from both sides.

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I like the chaos of random battles...

 

Your proposal of 'crossing the T' seems like it's the same over and over again. Also, how would each class benefit from their unique strengths in such a scenario?

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32 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Soo... Could you take us through how a 20' battle of your design would play out, please?

I get that you don't like the current system and I agree there are flaws in it, but it's like democracy - sometimes the alternatives are just way worse. You want to force fleet formations... then what? How are they to be forced? What are the objectives? How would you get the 'fleet' to move and where is it supposed to move? Is there any reason to play anything but a battleship in your version?

The "fleet formation" is not a gag on ship movement; it merely outlines where the player should be if he is to keep formation. I don't know - maybe a warning voice will say "player "name" - you're out of position" or "get back in formation!" If a player ignores the commanders voice or notification - then he or she - should be penalised; maybe by a drop in camo rating or his speed decreases. The matchmaker will do all the heavy lifting in placing players in the assigned randomly selected formation appropriate for the map at the start of the game; the player does nothing at all. But before you start - you will be told what formation you should be in;  and like football - you'd get to know your position and what role you should be playing. I don't have the answers - otherwise I'd be working for W.G or applying to them for employment, but this Random aspect - the very thing that makes WoT a pain when you are wanting to win and hone your skill - must be curtailed somehow. Battle formations is just a possible cure to Random free-for-all - I'm suggesting. It's historically accurate to say the least.   

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39 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

You want to force fleet formations... then what?

Well - its like a boy and a girl - left in a room who like each do what comes next :) ... the teams do what comes naturally. The Maps as they are - force players for move towards each other anyway. The battle formations merely organises the drift towards the inevitable.  But the emphasis is not on capturing circles which is really silly; the emphasis is in wrecking each other - the whole point of war at sea; that's the objective. 

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20 minutes ago, fallenkezef said:

Does the OP realise that "crossing the T" was a one off tactic that was never used again after Trafalgar?

 

Also any idiot who tried that tactic in 20th century warfare would likely kill the enemy Admiral...... With laughter, while watching his fleet be enveloped and torpedo'd from both sides.

 

OP "thinks" all warships did was slug it out with one another, check the 2 gems it posted yesterday, pure comedy gold.

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40 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Is there any reason to play anything but a battleship in your version?

No - cruisers and destroyers will still play their part. They have strong attributes like mobility. They can scout for the big Battleships or provide smoke screens; things we know how to do now. There is a sweet spot in the current game; I'm not saying it's all garbage; but that sweet spot only comes when players know what they are doing and are willing to play for each other and support each other.  It's amazing how a small amount of player support - goes a long way towards winning the game. Most of the time though - the ships disperse at the start - with no intention of supporting each other; it's basically each man for himself. I'm not of course speaking for Clan games. 

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31 minutes ago, fallenkezef said:

Does the OP realise that "crossing the T" was a one off tactic that was never used again after Trafalgar?

 

Also any idiot who tried that tactic in 20th century warfare would likely kill the enemy Admiral...... With laughter, while watching his fleet be enveloped and torpedo'd from both sides.

No - it was used in WW2; I think in the Battle of Leyte Gulf. I maybe wrong - but the US did use it against the Japanese. Get some education bruh. 

 

Besides relying on your own skill is no tactic whatsoever; you just sail as a single unit with not help or support from other ships; that's not a tactic - that's just crazy WoT play-style; which is fun - but gets boring after thousands of games.  

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19 minutes ago, davidsturm6597 said:

The "fleet formation" is not a gag on ship movement; it merely outlines where the player should be if he is to keep formation. I don't know - maybe a warning voice will say "player "name" - you're out of position" or "get back in formation!" If a player ignores the commanders voice or notification - then he or she - should be penalised; maybe by a drop in camo rating or his speed decreases. The matchmaker will do all the heavy lifting in placing players in the assigned randomly selected formation appropriate for the map at the start of the game; the player does nothing at all. But before you start - you will be told what formation you should be in;  and like football - you'd get to know your position and what role you should be playing. I don't have the answers - otherwise I'd be working for W.G or applying to them for employment, but this Random aspect - the very thing that makes WoT a pain when you are wanting to win and hone your skill - must be curtailed somehow. Battle formations is just a possible cure to Random free-for-all - I'm suggesting. It's historically accurate to say the least.   

 

How the holy hell is crossing the T historicly accurate? It was used ONCE by age of sail ships because Nelson held the weather gauge and was able to cut the French/Spainish line while they where unable to manouver.

 

in 20th century warfare with coal and oil fired boilers giving full mobility, naval tactics where far more fluid and fleets did not operate in massed, fixed formations. Naval fleets where sub-divided into smaller squadrons, often as small as 3 ships and given relative autonomy within the battle plan, otherwise you'd lose half your fleet to a few destroyers on a torpedo run.

 

You clearly have no actual idea how ships fought in the 20th century.

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1 hour ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

This game was designed for 10 yr olds.

 

Ever tried to make 10 yr olds play at Varsity level team formations and stuff?

Here is the explanation, OP, this cannot be better or more concisely explained - there is no saving WG from itself.

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13 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

OP "thinks" all warships did was slug it out with one another, check the 2 gems it posted yesterday, pure comedy gold.

It's not comedy; it's serious thinking; giving it a lot of thought. Something a person like you is incapable of. You're a crowd-follower. 

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31 minutes ago, fallenkezef said:

Does the OP realise that "crossing the T" was a one off tactic that was never used again after Trafalgar?

 

Also any idiot who tried that tactic in 20th century warfare would likely kill the enemy Admiral...... With laughter, while watching his fleet be enveloped and torpedo'd from both sides.

 

3 minutes ago, davidsturm6597 said:

No - it was used in WW2; I think in the Battle of Leyte Gulf. I maybe wrong - but the US did use it against the Japanese. Get some education bruh. 

 

It was used multiple times during the 20th Century. Jellichoe did it twice at Jutland and the tactic persisted right up to the Battle of Surigao Straight in '44. It was a favourable tactic right up until the point that aircraft made naval gunnery duels obsolete.

 

One thing you will quickly learn about Fallenkezef is that he talks a lot but rarely has any clue what he is talking about.

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4 minutes ago, antean said:

Here is the explanation, OP, this cannot be better or more concisely explained - there is no saving WG from itself.

W.G is just lucky; I've no respect for them whatsoever. I can still point out WoT and WoWs are essentially the same game; and WoWs can be saved from the same death. It's kinda - the right thing to say....

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48 minutes ago, fallenkezef said:

Does the OP realise that "crossing the T" was a one off tactic that was never used again after Trafalgar?

 

Also any idiot who tried that tactic in 20th century warfare would likely kill the enemy Admiral...... With laughter, while watching his fleet be enveloped and torpedo'd from both sides.

Mostly because of Aircraft Carriers.

Also, it has been done in the 20th century, an example would be the battle of Surigao Strait.

Crossing the T is mostly effective in real life warfare when the opposing team has an objective but your side does not (other than defending), so it will go out of the window in World of Warships regardless. If we take his proposal to have no cap circles, no sane team would commit to a move that would allow their Ts to be crossed.

 

In World of Warships, there are more reasons why this goes out of the window.

- Crossing the T by itself is not as effective as it was IRL due to the increased bow and stern plating (allowing for bowtanking, even if I personally think this is silly).

- Gameplay: Cost aspect (maintenance) for ship classes is nonexistant (so cruisers, DDs and BBs cost the same to maintain on each specific tier) and this means that all ships have to be equally powerful, and Crossing the T (and other lines of battle-related formations) will make ships that are not Battleships suffer heavily.

 

15 minutes ago, fallenkezef said:

 

How the holy hell is crossing the T historicly accurate? It was used ONCE by age of sail ships because Nelson held the weather gauge and was able to cut the French/Spainish line while they where unable to manouver.

 

in 20th century warfare with coal and oil fired boilers giving full mobility, naval tactics where far more fluid and fleets did not operate in massed, fixed formations. Naval fleets where sub-divided into smaller squadrons, often as small as 3 ships and given relative autonomy within the battle plan, otherwise you'd lose half your fleet to a few destroyers on a torpedo run.

  

You clearly have no actual idea how ships fought in the 20th century.

 

This is not quite accurate either; Nelson allowed his T to be crossed at Trafalgar, and because the Franco-Spanish gunnery was slow and relatively ineffective he was allowed to cut up their line while they were unable to manouver (not just because of the weather gauge, though).

 

Your comment about massive fixed formations is wrong on so many levels that I refuse to mention it. Carrier Battle Groups exist even to this day. Formations have changed from the lines of battle to more circular formations, but they still consist of very large numbers of ships. However, aircraft carriers play a big role in this (small groups of ships don't have enough AA to defend themselves).

Without Aircraft Carriers you still saw lines of battle up to World War 2, another example being the battle of the Java Sea.

 

Of course, in modern day line of battle is obsolete thanks to the rise of missile warfare, but that is a topic for a different day (and like I said, circular formations still exist).

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OP has still not realized that WoWS is a ship based action/shooter game, not more.

It's not a simulation!

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15 minutes ago, antean said:

Here is the explanation, OP, this cannot be better or more concisely explained - there is no saving WG from itself.

 

So, hows your reroll going?

 

You real account was again?

 

Always funny to see banned players complaining about WG, but hey, you still play and give them money so...

 

Saving a multi million dollar company from itself, yep, that is how "special" you read.

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53 minutes ago, Juanx said:

So, hows your reroll going?

Since you are 'so' concerned, Juanx *edited. I don't have a re-roll account, not technically, I believe.

I have had one account only in NA & now here in EU. Both are active. Anyone can have a account on each WoWS server (if they want to).

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55 minutes ago, Juanx said:

You real account was again?

If you think my real account is my first one (chronologically) it is Aethervox in NA. Look me up. It is my original & only one there. I have nothing to hide.

If you make an account in NA yourself, Juanx *edited, I offer to division with you there, anytime (no TKing tho pls).

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