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Zero Damage Pens... how?

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Hey all,

Seeking to understand how/why I am seeing a fair amount of Zero-Damage Penetration hits recently...

They have been fairly regular since the previous patch and a fair amount of the time I can't make much sense of them - as to why/how I am getting a penetration hit, but no damage in cases OTHER than where a ship is already partly or heavily damaged (i.e. saturation):

The latest "anomaly" was AP Penetration Hits on a broadside full HP Republique from my Republique at a range of around 21km right at the start of the battle...literally the first shots fired by our team or theirs in the game.

 

5 Hits: 
4 penetrations for zero damage (+1 Richochet). 

Explanations appreciated.

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For ships in general: Pens on AA mounts, secondary mounts and main gun turrets only deal damage to the module HP, not to general ship HP.

For République and all other Frenchies in particular: They have spaced armor. If a shell detonates in the vacuum between armor plates you get 0 damage hits.

 

This doesn't only happen since the last update, it has been around for quite some time.

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7 minutes ago, Ze_Reckless said:

This doesn't only happen since the last update, it has been around for quite some time.

The frequency of them has noticeably changed ... enough for me to notice it at least... (coinciding with a noticeable drop in citadel hits, but that's another story) 

 

7 minutes ago, Ze_Reckless said:

For ships in general: Pens on AA mounts, secondary mounts and main gun turrets only deal damage to the module HP, not to general ship HP.

The hits were visually on the lower broadside belt area... but, yeah, I know you can't really trust what you see in the game... so its most likely that they hit higher than they appeared to in-game and penetrated a module?

Wouldn't that have shown a damaged/destroyed module though?

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33 minutes ago, antenociti said:

Wouldn't that have shown a damaged/destroyed module though?

 

Only a destroyed module is shown. You never know if you damaged one and for how much.

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1 hour ago, antenociti said:

The latest "anomaly" was AP Penetration Hits on a broadside full HP Republique from my Republique at a range of around 21km right at the start of the battle...literally the first shots fired by our team or theirs in the game.

 

There is some more Republique anomaly (from yesterday):

The explanation can hardly be mounts, although it sounds good and is sometimes the right explanation. These are all belt hits.

 

right.thumb.png.ac6a86b1dbb03f100b95487a42aae60e.png

 

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1 hour ago, antenociti said:

The hits were visually on the lower broadside belt area

15 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

There is some more Republique anomaly (from yesterday):

 

Torpedo bulge/outer plating penetrations deal no damage as well.

The French have spaced armor, so all your shells did was penetrate the outer hull (and thus got displayed as penetrations) but didn't go through the main belt armor, resulting in no damage.

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Cooping with Shiratsuyu bot-shira charges at me. I manage to dwindle him down to 990hp then something weird happens. I cant damage him with my guns! With 4 volleys I get 16 penetrations with HE and he is not losing any HP by my shots.

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26 minutes ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

Cooping with Shiratsuyu bot-shira charges at me. I manage to dwindle him down to 990hp then something weird happens. I cant damage him with my guns! With 4 volleys I get 16 penetrations with HE and he is not losing any HP by my shots.

The are you are shooting has been completely saturated, as it has no more HP to loose. This video explains everything: https://youtu.be/1jAaPu_FNLg

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28 minutes ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

Cooping with Shiratsuyu bot-shira charges at me. I manage to dwindle him down to 990hp then something weird happens. I cant damage him with my guns! With 4 volleys I get 16 penetrations with HE and he is not losing any HP by my shots.

Damage saturation. Its not WoT to kill tank by shooting commander cupola

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6 hours ago, Ze_Reckless said:

 

Only a destroyed module is shown. You never know if you damaged one and for how much.

 

6 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Torpedo bulge/outer plating penetrations deal no damage as well.

The French have spaced armor, so all your shells did was penetrate the outer hull (and thus got displayed as penetrations) but didn't go through the main belt armor, resulting in no damage.

Thanks, folks, appreciated.

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8 hours ago, antenociti said:

They have been fairly regular since the previous patch

You mean for the last 2...3 years?

 

8 hours ago, antenociti said:

Zero-Damage Penetration

  • AA guns
  • Secondaries & their barbettes
  • Main batteries and their barbettes
  • Fully saturated areas
  • Torpedo bulges (I think it only shows that for AP, for HE you seem to get a shatter icon even if you can pen it)
  • Spaced armour (like on French CAs)
  • Citadel hits give you a citadel ribbon + penetration ribbon since the last patch

 

7 hours ago, antenociti said:

The frequency of them has noticeably changed

Just because it feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeels like it doens't mean it's true. You probably just started paying more attention to it, or got screwed over by RNG more than usually.

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7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Torpedo bulge/outer plating penetrations deal no damage as well.

The French have spaced armor, so all your shells did was penetrate the outer hull (and thus got displayed as penetrations) but didn't go through the main belt armor, resulting in no damage.

21 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Torpedo bulges (I think it only shows that for AP, for HE you seem to get a shatter icon even if you can pen it)

 

I thought hitting the torpedo bulge and not penetrating the belt armor behind would result in a shatter ribbon? Alltho it certainly could explain some of those non-damage pens. Should be easy enough to test, just take any Cruiser vs any BB with Torpedo bulge and see what happens. (well not something like Moskva ofc, something with low penetration). I sometimes tested citadelling BBs with Hindenburg, and usually i shattered on the belt armor, and i think there should have been some with Bulges there aswell.

As for Spaced armor: I thought only the French CAs got that, but not the BBs?

 

Personaly, i dont have more problems with French BBs (as compared to French CAs, which eat RN sAP like candy). 0 damage pens have been around for ages, like @wilkatis_LV said already. Havent had more lately than before, but just some days seem worse than others... cant explain that.

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56 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

You mean for the last 2...3 years?

No, I mean they've noticeably been a lot more frequent since the previous patch.

 

59 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Just because it feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeels like it doens't mean it's true. You probably just started paying more attention to it, or got screwed over by RNG more than usually.


If you mean confirmation bias, well aware of that, but not in this case - they've been a lot higher in frequency since the previous patch.

As I said.
 

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1 hour ago, antenociti said:

o, I mean they've noticeably been a lot more frequent since the previous pa

Both yesterday and the day before I did some sprint with El2a and in two separate games I had a single salvo with 4 pens for a combined zero damage.

 

Will pay attention if it keeps happening.

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5 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Both yesterday and the day before I did some sprint with El2a and in two separate games I had a single salvo with 4 pens for a combined zero damage.

 

Will pay attention if it keeps happening.

And then you get a salvo where 4 pens do exactly 4 pens worth of dmg.

 

It's just where RNG decided your shells to land and how many of these modules does the target ship have on it.

 

Could have been fixed ages ago if WG could just introduce a "module hit" ribbon or something like that :cap_tea:

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6 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

And then you get a salvo where 4 pens do exactly 4 pens worth of dmg.

 

It's just where RNG decided your shells to land and how many of these modules does the target ship have on it.

 

Could have been fixed ages ago if WG could just introduce a "module hit" ribbon or something like that :cap_tea:

I mean, of course I know that there is a chance that all 4 did hit a module, but I'm not used to seeing that kind of rng often.

 

It's not like wg never broke their own game before.

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20 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Could have been fixed ages ago if WG could just introduce a "module hit" ribbon or something like that

 

12 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

It's not like wg never broke their own game before.


QFT

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12 hours ago, Ze_Reckless said:

For ships in general: Pens on AA mounts, secondary mounts and main gun turrets only deal damage to the module HP, not to general ship HP.

For République and all other Frenchies in particular: They have spaced armor. If a shell detonates in the vacuum between armor plates you get 0 damage hits.

 

This doesn't only happen since the last update, it has been around for quite some time.

 

I had the same in a Yamato vs a Republique and that French spaced armour really doesn't help with the "Zero damage pens" people see so many of all due to the mechanic you mentioned but I though WG had implemented a work-around to avoid seeing them anymore?

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this is what space armor is made for and modules do absorb damage. what you want to make armor pointless much like premium shells did in wot?

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2 hours ago, Saiyko said:

I mean, of course I know that there is a chance that all 4 did hit a module, but I'm not used to seeing that kind of rng often.

 

It's not like wg never broke their own game before.

It sounds like you fired at a battleship with a torpedo bulge.  You penetrated the 30mm of armour to keep out torpedoes, but you failed to penetrate the actual hull of the ship. 

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51 minutes ago, Animalul2012 said:

this is what space armor is made for and modules do absorb damage. what you want to make armor pointless much like premium shells did in wot?

What a great leap of logic. How about not using the penetration ribbon for hits that do no damage? Or at least give me a smaller size damage number so I can at least tell I hit a module. Not just 6 penetrations that do nothing but leave you wondering what's going on.

 

If WG did that, people wouldn't need to ask about this on forums.

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19 minutes ago, Turnipsi said:

What a great leap of logic. How about not using the penetration ribbon for hits that do no damage? Or at least give me a smaller size damage number so I can at least tell I hit a module. Not just 6 penetrations that do nothing but leave you wondering what's going on.

 

If WG did that, people wouldn't need to ask about this on forums.

had it happen a few times today, 0 dmg penetration ribbon would be great

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6 hours ago, ollonborre said:

The are you are shooting has been completely saturated, as it has no more HP to loose. This video explains everything: https://youtu.be/1jAaPu_FNLg

Ok the bow seems pretty messed up. I knew about the saturation thing but haven't really seen it in battle. Bot was zig-zagin so in the heat of battle the saturated bow didint even come to my mind.

20181222102956_1.jpg

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A more extreme example :

 

7 hits for 1480 damage (= 1 overpen)  -->  5 non-damaging pens :cap_haloween:

 

M85JGg5.jpg

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