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Sargento_YO

Albany`s (Tier II) 152mm AP shells... Are as good as Worchester's (Tier X) ones?

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This is a question that has been bugging me for a very long time...

I have been playing this game for several years now... And something that I can't pinpoint it's why certain guns from X ship are better than the guns of Y ship, given the same caliber...

Two versions ago we got an exact value of how much armor HE shells penetrates. Which derivates from a very specific formula of "certain caliber of gun divided by 6 = mm of armor that can penetrate" (and certain ones divided by 4).
But I can't find anywhere why certain AP shells from certain cannon are better, or worse, than the guns from any other ship. For instance, for what I read, Mutsu´s 406mm AP shells are worse than Nagato´s one. Despite being of the same caliber... But WHY... And more importantly... For how much??

So, I decided to take a look to the wiki and chosed the two most extreme examples; Albany and Worchester. Tier 2 and tier 10...
960036600_APvalues.jpg.0a25c455124e106d2e2c968f6647cadc.jpg

 

I don't see anywhere Why AP shells from Worchester are any better than Albany´s one (about damage and penetration)... Except for the AP shell weight. The very ONLY difference it's that Worchester´s one makes 200 more of damage and that it's slighty heavier (12 kg more).

So... If I bring an impossible troll platoon, and I take an Albany into a tier X battle and I manage to shoot against an enemy cruiser which gives me a full broadside at only 4 km......
Common sense will tell me that it would be impossible to citadel that enemy tier X cruiser...
The same common sense will tell me that South Carolina´s 305 mm (Tier III) AP shells aren't as effective as Alaska´s 305 mm Ap shells...
The ONLY information about AP penetration I managed to find, so far, are from World of warship´s Armada videos...
 

Dunkerque.thumb.jpg.20b14e2fbf3956dca6bbf6f4a2f88f49.jpg

Dunkerque AP shell penetration from Armada´s video...

So, my question is... There is ANY Ship´s value AP penetration chart... Or kind of shell ship, Even from the same tier? (For instance... The difference between 203 mm AP shells form Des moines and Hindenburg?). Because if there is ANY of that... I'm really clueless about it.

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  • Rate of Fire
  • Mass of shell
  • Muzzle  velocity
  • Aerodynamics (drag)
  • Material of shell and explosive used (Krupp value)

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5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Rate of Fire

I'd be hilarious to see an Albany that'd get the same DPM as the Wooster. Just for April 1st or so.

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According to some forumites the Narai Operation had a Phoenix cruiser that was a Des Moines in disguise....

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25 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • Rate of Fire
  • Mass of shell
  • Muzzle  velocity
  • Aerodynamics (drag)
  • Material of shell and explosive used (Krupp value)

As I mentioned. I'm talking about AP damage and penetration. (I fully know that Worchester have much more HP, rate of fire, and turning rate. Etc. Heck, it should be better at absolute everything after 8 tiers!!)
I was giving an exterme example. But there is a funny thing... Muzzle velocity on Albany it's HIGHER than the value on Worchester!!
Also... "Krupp value" Where in the world it's that in the wiki, or the ingame parameters???...
My point is, all these stuff should be much clearer on the game.
Also, In theory, in Worchester everything should be better... But Albany´s cannons (maximum dispersion = 83 metters) are more acurrate than Worchester´s one (148 metters) WTF!? (unless I'm too drunk and I screwed up the screenshoots.)

But even then... Worchester's values should be at least 8 times better than Albany´s ones...

 

Herrjot gave a very good link which I should check. But until now I was totally unaware of that site. And even then. Why I must check an outside site about these hidden values? (For instance, about the sigma value. Which doesn't appears ANYWHERE in the game, except in the outside sites. And I'm only aware of the existance of that value because I read it somewhere in the forum. Something which only a very small percentage of players does.).

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  • these are the parameters for AP damage and penetration
  • starting muzzle velocity is important, but does not help much when the shell has a huge drag factor, Albany has pre WW1 shells...
  • Krupp factor can only be data mined and is not shown in game, the same with drag
  • dispersion is relative to the range, Worcester has much more range.....
  • Cool 2

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10 hours ago, Sargento_YO said:

 But Albany´s cannons (maximum dispersion = 83 metters) are more acurrate than Worchester´s one (148 metters) WTF!? (unless I'm too drunk and I screwed up the screenshoots.)

Dispersion is listed for nominal max range (ie without upgrades or captain skills). Albany has a max dispersion of 83 meters at 9.17 km range. Bertie Wooster has 148 meters at 16.7 km range. So their angular dispersion is actually about the same.

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12 hours ago, Sargento_YO said:

So... If I bring an impossible troll platoon, and I take an Albany into a tier X battle and I manage to shoot against an enemy cruiser which gives me a full broadside at only 4 km......

And you think why Umikaze/Isokaze at tier 10 was a fearsome thing?:cap_haloween:

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14 hours ago, Allied_Winter said:

I'd be hilarious to see an Albany that'd get the same DPM as the Wooster. Just for April 1st or so.

Absolutely.

Mikasa with 14 km secondaries 4 s reload and on MB 5 s reload + booster and 2,5 sigma.40 kts also. That is  my hidden dream.:cap_haloween:

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17 hours ago, Sargento_YO said:

So... If I bring an impossible troll platoon, and I take an Albany into a tier X battle and I manage to shoot against an enemy cruiser which gives me a full broadside at only 4 km......
Common sense will tell me that it would be impossible to citadel that enemy tier X cruiser...

From empirical testing in training room:

Minotaur: Can be citpenned at ranges like 4-5 km easily. No surprise there.

Moskva: Gets citpenned only below 2.8 km. Before that, belt shatters shells. Like, 2.9 km is all shatters. Note that this is on a strip slightly above the waterline. I ran two tests for this, as I didn't believe that the first test against Moskva was properly conducted, as 155 mm Moskcva shouldn't get vastly different results than 150 mm Des Moines. As is, it's 2.8 km to pen the strip directly behind the 155 mm belt and 1 km to pen the 155 mm belt AND the citadel bulkhead that is when you hit at the waterline.

Worcester: Below 4 km.

Des Moines: 3 km and below.

Zao: Below 3.5 km.

Hindenburg and Henri: 404 Citadel not found

PA has no T10, but Chengan you basically either citpen or overpen. If you hit the little bugger, which isn't even guaranteed at 4 km.

Spoiler

shot-18_12.22_18_02.31-0587.thumb.jpg.34f0352246410f967d6b50b7d4e2e13d.jpg

Citpenning Minotaur was easy.

shot-18_12.22_18_06.13-0078.thumb.jpg.284c6d094576af08e94cf5d29018d2b9.jpg

First cit on Moskva at 1 km.

shot-18_12.22_18_09.36-0415.thumb.jpg.4d194c0cf0e9d36136faeb2fa5a2380a.jpg

Worcester spawned close. Immediate citpens.

shot-18_12.22_18_09.45-0130.thumb.jpg.7219c6493b1d226794f719cd7c026f68.jpg

Moved further out, still citpens.

shot-18_12.22_18_10.57-0094.thumb.jpg.3e985c2f36a2fe9eee84960a472da5c1.jpg

It eventually died.

shot-18_12.22_18_12.51-0755.thumb.jpg.aa0bfb88a6a59aff9cfd499a734e86e7.jpg

Des Moines first cit.

shot-18_12.22_18_13.09-0239.thumb.jpg.60cd2329b564e5c22a21eeaf144f5c52.jpg

Gets pretty reliable too.

shot-18_12.22_18_21.04-0252.thumb.jpg.4c24aad6215e2b2086cac72e191d3463.jpg

Zao first cit.

shot-18_12.22_18_33.29-0643.thumb.jpg.4f567a4b65a9004b890f9151e24d5ac7.jpg

Henri can be point blank and the shells vanish in spaced armour.

shot-18_12.22_18_37.16-0094.thumb.jpg.fed6be32028d381fbbfb2cc8576546da.jpg

Henri was a pain. Took 149 shots. In a cruiser with 4 guns and 8 sec reload. Only 1 fire to help.

shot-18_12.22_18_39.01-0991.thumb.jpg.7e70d909716e7942d4c4b4ca8374ae92.jpg

Chengan as a whole is smaller than the citadels of T10. It also only takes two citadels to kill it, but I only got 1. Overpens killed it before I got another one.

shot-18_12.22_19_00.23-0568.thumb.jpg.3471f265eed13e2c9efdd2717a8a2625.jpg

shot-18_12.22_19_00.31-0089.thumb.jpg.1781cdd90f49a41414ea77ca13cf15e5.jpg

Second Moskva test. Citadels stopped appearing at 2.9, where only shatters were achieved.

Now others won't need to waste an hour of their lives to find out. You're welcome.

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13 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Now others won't need to waste an hour of their lives to find out. You're welcome.

WoW, that took some effort. Thank you for doing that. :Smile_great:

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58 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

 

  Hide contents

 

Now others won't need to waste an hour of their lives to find out. You're welcome.

Wow, really nice work!

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1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

Now others won't need to waste an hour of their lives to find out. You're welcome.

My first thought was: "Why on Earth did you bother?", but then I remembered getting nerd-sniped into spending my lunch hour looking up the mechanics of rotational motion after a mate pointed out something that was a bit off in the latest Expanse novel.

 

I'm not really in a position to criticize.

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26 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

My first thought was: "Why on Earth did you bother?"

Be sure, I wondered that too after I realised that I had to deplete a full hp Hindenburg and Henri without citadel hits.

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