Don’t buy PEF - she sucks hard

[Shadeshots]

Didnt buy it but i agree, it is an absolute garbage ship. I dont even think i can be bothered to do the nerves of steel mission for it its that horrible to play. I'd rather just get my steel in CB than suffer it.

[Kenliero]

If you take a look at these T6 BB armors, you will notice that every time we have highly armored citadel in front, it is wide and large(Arizona, Fuso, Bayern and New Mexico).

If we have weakly armored citadel in front it is very small and difficult to access(Normandie, Warspite, Queen Elizabeth).

What PEF has is weakly armored citadel, only 32mm, but it is still much larger and easily accessible that any other ships with low armor in citadel. Because of the long bow, it is also easy to pen that bow if PEF angles a little bit, but not enough to take shots in the belt. If PEF is fully bow on, it works against low caliber, but when facing high caliber guns, it will take massive citadel hits, because that citadel has only 32mm armor and the target area is still very large and, well... not higher in the water than others, but still high enough to be accessed easily.

With low citadel armor and relatively wide profile, it SHOULD be much deeper in the water to be difficult to hit.

[HaachamaShipping]

18 minutes ago, Kenliero said:

Yes, it is wide and it is high in the water. Why do you even argue about this? How about you actually log into the game and check the armor? 270mm is much better than 25mm is it not? it makes zero sense to try to tank incoming shots with 25mm, when you can do it with 270mm/300mm. That said I agree about the overmatch part. I meant to say "penetrate".

Oh, I know what I'm talking about. But as you say check armour models ingame, here:

Spoiler

This is the PEF citadel. It goes up to just below the waterline. The ship overall isn't too fat and the citadel is even more narrow.

 

For comparison:

Spoiler

The West Virginia goes up to the waterline too, its frontal bulkhead is wider, but at least thicker. At range, WV will be better off, up close, as soon as the pen is enough to punch through that, it's no better. At that point PEFs long nose might actually mean some AP runs run out of fuze time before reaching the cit.

Spoiler

New Mexico is basically the same as WV, but with slopes at the side and wider. Slopes don't matter for frontal shots. It is wider than PEF.

Spoiler

QE (and Warspite) go just below the waterline and are wider. Their frontal bulkheads aren't anything to write home about and there's a step with 25 mm citadel deck.

 

Now, these were the kinda decent T6 citadels. Let's look at some truely horrifying ones:

Spoiler

Fuso: Just below waterline, absolutely massive in its width. Not the worst offender though, because:

Spoiler

Mutsu goes above water and is still quite fat.

 

So far, all the citadels were fatter than the PEF's, so which are more narrow? Well...

Spoiler

About as narrow, has a similarly long bow, frontal bulkhead is only 228 mm. Quite comparable to the PEF.

Spoiler

This is a joke. Thankfully, it's behind a reinforced bow. If one manages to bypass it though from an angle, the side bulkheads of the citadel are only 20 mm. Still, this ship actually is better protected.

 

Lastly, there is Bayern, where I won't bother, because citadelling it from the front is kind of impossible.

 

Overall, PEF is thicker than only Normandie, is not higher than any of them (because waterline is the standard here), the citadel is decidedly worse than 2 BBs (Bayern and Normandie), decidedly better than 2 BB (Mutsu and Fuso) and comparable in its frontal protection to the remainder. Mostly, because, yes, it has 32 mm lower bulkhead, but who cares? It has a long bow that angled arms shells that go through and at range they will detonate before reaching the citadel. At any distance where shells retain enough speed to pass through this part, they have enough pen usually to penetrate the citadel bulkhead even if it was 250 mm all over. Compared to ships like Dunkerque, this is very comparable in effectiveness, while USN and RN are easier to hit citadels, but with more raw plate strength. Not that 343 mm is going to be much better than 250 mm or 32 mm when you overmatch from sub 10 km.

4 minutes ago, Kenliero said:

What PEF has is weakly armored citadel, only 32mm, but it is still much larger and easily accessible that any other ships with low armor in citadel.

It's only significantly wider than friggin Normandie, comparable to Dunkerque and more narrow than anyone else. It's by no means wide. Do you even look at your own images?

6 minutes ago, Kenliero said:

With low citadel armor and relatively wide profile, it SHOULD be much deeper in the water to be difficult to hit.

No other T6 is deeper. 2 are higher and 2 are harder to hit due to having a reinforced bow

 

PEF's frontal citadel protection is no worse than mos T6 BBs.

[Kenliero]

7 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

 

It's only significantly wider than friggin Normandie, comparable to Dunkerque and more narrow than anyone else. It's by no means wide. Do you even look at your own images?

No other T6 is deeper. 2 are higher and 2 are harder to hit due to having a reinforced bow

 

PEF's frontal citadel protection is no worse than mos T6 BBs.

It seems that you completely ignore the armor values when you compare citadels?

PEF has weakest citadel relative to it's size, armor and accessibility, and here is the point I've been trying to make all a long: It is weakest if you angle a little bit, like you would do in most ships. You need to angle a lot, to hide that weakly armored citadel. When you angle a lot, but still not enough to take citadel hits from side, then it actually works.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, Kenliero said:

It seems that you completely ignore the armor values when you compare citadels?

PEF has weakest citadel relative to it's size, armor and accessibility, and here is the point I've been trying to make all a long: It is weakest if you angle a little bit, like you would do in most ships. You need to angle a lot, to hide that weakly armored citadel. When you angle a lot, but still not enough to take citadel hits from side, then it actually works.

I explained already why the armour thickness doesn't mean as much as you think it does. Feel free to ignore it.

[1MajorKoenig]

15 hours ago, GudmundurG said:

I did the same. I don't understand all this whining   If you did not buy it you got it for free.

So why all this whining?  

Your free ship is not the best T6 BB for your playstyle 

What a disappointment, lets burn the house down

 

I did buy it and WG sells it for 26€. 

 

It’s not about getting useless ingame Dubloons - if I would want these I would buy them. 

 

It‘s about getting a fun Mackensen Class. And that didn’t happen. Saying: „but you are getting a worthless ingame currency compensation“ is about as stupid as it can get.

[quickr]

47 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

I did buy it and WG sells it for 26€. 

 

It’s not about getting useless ingame Dubloons - if I would want these I would buy them. 

 

It‘s about getting a fun Mackensen Class. And that didn’t happen. Saying: „but you are getting a worthless ingame currency compensation“ is about as stupid as it can get.

For 25€ You got a prem ship (which is ok, average in every way), early access to Mighty prinz campaign and enough time to finish it, Steel mission and enough time to finish it, easier grind for last PEF directive (PEF wins count towards 5 different nations) and 6800 doubloons once you've unlocked free PEF. That's a lot of goodies for a 25€, in my opinion well worth it. Fact that you wanted a fun ship but got something else, well, tough luck man, what else to say.

 

 

20 pages on mediocre tier 6 prrem but barely anything on YY

Where was gondor when yueyang got nerfed!??!?!

[Aragathor]

20 minutes ago, quickr said:

Fact that you wanted a fun ship but got something else, well, tough luck man, what else to say.

Tough luck for WG to sell the boat after the events end. Who wants to buy a ship that's not fun to play?

 

20 minutes ago, quickr said:

20 pages on mediocre tier 6 prrem but barely anything on YY

Where was gondor when yueyang got nerfed!??!?!

There was this thread going on for some time:

 

 

But why would Mordor listen to what Gondor is saying?

[quickr]

10 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Tough luck for WG to sell the boat after the events end. Who wants to buy a ship that's not fun to play?

There are other premium ships in store and I'm sure many more to come. I think WG will manage

 

11 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

There was this thread going on for some time:

11 pages on YY nerf, and we are still going strong on PEF

 

 

[1MajorKoenig]

39 minutes ago, quickr said:

For 25€ You got a prem ship (which is ok, average in every way), early access to Mighty prinz campaign and enough time to finish it, Steel mission and enough time to finish it, easier grind for last PEF directive (PEF wins count towards 5 different nations) and 6800 doubloons once you've unlocked free PEF. That's a lot of goodies for a 25€, in my opinion well worth it. Fact that you wanted a fun ship but got something else, well, tough luck man, what else to say.

 

 

20 pages on mediocre tier 6 prrem but barely anything on YY

Where was gondor when yueyang got nerfed!??!?!

 

Dude I don’t give a sh* about the steel campaign or dubloons. Both have ZERO value for me and are an absolute waste in my opinion.

 

I am only interested in the ship itself. Not in its function as a paywall for steel suckers.

[Aragathor]

8 minutes ago, quickr said:

There are other premium ships in store and I'm sure many more to come. I think WG will manage

Sure they will. But why should they keep dead weight on sale?

 

8 minutes ago, quickr said:

11 pages on YY nerf, and we are still going strong on PEF

That's because YY is a silver ship and PEF is a premium. And YY is a very narrowly specialized DD.

[DFens_666]

9 hours ago, Seiranko said:

No clue what happened then, given I also don't know impact angles and such.

 

 

 

 

Beware, he is going full nuts because of it

 

8 hours ago, Kenliero said:

Yes, it is wide and it is high in the water. Why do you even argue about this? How about you actually log into the game and check the armor? 270mm is much better than 25mm is it not? it makes zero sense to try to tank incoming shots with 25mm, when you can do it with 270mm/300mm. That said I agree about the overmatch part. I meant to say "penetrate".

 

Aslong as the caliber incomming is <357mm you can bowtank perfectly fine.

[1MajorKoenig]

13 minutes ago, quickr said:

There are other premium ships in store and I'm sure many more to come. I think WG will manage

 

11 pages on YY nerf, and we are still going strong on PEF

 

 

 

I don’t care about YY a freaking bit. But you are free to voice your concerns over the nerf if you want.

 

AND: YY has absolutely nothing to do with WG ruining my recent shopping experience. I am still pissed off very much. If I pay 26€ to use a pixel ship I want to have fun. And this crap that WG cooked up isn’t. 

[quickr]

2 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Dude I don’t give a sh*

There really is no point in conversing with you is it? Why are you so angry about this I don't know.

I hated when they nerfed YY, i don't want 60 sec fire duration on Alaska, i regret buying stalingrad over bourgogne, i kick myself for not getting Kutuzov while it was in the shop... the list goes on.... but it's just a game, whats the point in dwelling over it?

 

3 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

That's because YY is a silver ship and PEF is a premium. And YY is a very narrowly specialized DD.

For me, tier 10 silver has more value than tier 6 prem. But ok, YY is not the topic here...

 

 

4 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

I am still pissed off very much. If I pay 26€ to use a pixel ship I want to have fun. And this crap that WG cooked up isn’t.  

A buyers remorse, very common in WG games. No way to test a ship, you can only read someone elses opinion and take a leap of faith. I say it's a good thing than PEF costed you "only" 25€

Could it be it's your fault after all. You had this image in your head about a "perfect ship" you wanted, day one it appeared in prem. ship you bought it without reading any reviews or opinions. I'm just guessing here, not my aim to provoke.

[Aragathor]

Reading the opinions on other subforums (thank bob I'm multilingual). Germans are just pissed, Polish comments are straight standup material:

"It's like grinding the FdG, but with the difference that you can't finish it with fXP."

"I thought the name Nerves of Steel for the missions was dumb, I was wrong."

"PEF shells are good for scaring fish in the water around the enemy ship."

"PEFs accuracy is like a yeti. Rumored to exist, but no one has seen it."

"PEF had a typo in the tier placement, it should have been TIV instead of TVI, but now they are too embarrassed to correct it."

[quickr]

At least we can get a good laugh out of it

[1MajorKoenig]

18 minutes ago, quickr said:

There really is no point in conversing with you is it? Why are you so angry about this I don't know.

I hated when they nerfed YY, i don't want 60 sec fire duration on Alaska, i regret buying stalingrad over bourgogne, i kick myself for not getting Kutuzov while it was in the shop... the list goes on.... but it's just a game, whats the point in dwelling over it?

 

For me, tier 10 silver has more value than tier 6 prem. But ok, YY is not the topic here...

 

 

A buyers remorse, very common in WG games. No way to test a ship, you can only read someone elses opinion and take a leap of faith. I say it's a good thing than PEF costed you "only" 25€

Could it be it's your fault after all. You had this image in your head about a "perfect ship" you wanted, day one it appeared in prem. ship you bought it without reading any reviews or opinions. I'm just guessing here, not my aim to provoke.

 

If there is a point for you in our conversation is up to you of course. I don’t have anything against you.

 

However I am very very miffed that the ships is such an unfun experience. I don’t mind spending on this game and up to now I always liked the prem ships I bought (and there are lots and lots by now). Always something interesting and enjoyable about every single one of them!

 

PEF is the VERY first one I absolutely hate. It’s not unplayable bad or so. It is just unplayable unfun. I hate playing the ship and I hate having spent any real money on it. No review upfront said: “it is by far the most digustingly unfun turd you will ever have to try”. So there is that - reviews didn’t help. But you are right that I learned a lesson in a way I won’t spend money on this shitty crap anymore. A pity I still have premium crap for this crap.

 

I don’t want a perfect ship either or OP or something like that. I just And very simply want it to be enjoyable and the current form is lacking in the most important area for that ship class which is main guns. It’s like implementing a Mikasa-speed 18kn Destroyer. Could of course be balanced somehow so stats are “fine” but it would for sure still suck balls big time. Exactly like PEF.

 

 

[Breezewind]

Dunno, currently I have 70% winrate in the ship, thought I expect it to come down somewhat, as I've had decent matchmaking, and I'm averaging 50k in damage (with a full secondary build) which is roughly on par with my other T6 BBs. I'm not seeing this piss-poor performance that has been discussed here, though I can argue the performance is subpar to the Scharnhorst, which is one of the nicest premium BBs in the game.

[Wilkinson87]

Dont be mad at me, but Pef after a lot battles isnt that bad....It could have a hidro or planes but just need to get use to the ship...

[Breezewind]

2 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Reading the opinions on other subforums (thank bob I'm multilingual). Germans are just pissed, Polish comments are straight standup material:

"It's like grinding the FdG, but with the difference that you can't finish it with fXP."

"I thought the name Nerves of Steel for the missions was dumb, I was wrong."

"PEF shells are good for scaring fish in the water around the enemy ship."

"PEFs accuracy is like a yeti. Rumored to exist, but no one has seen it."

"PEF had a typo in the tier placement, it should have been TIV instead of TVI, but now they are too embarrassed to correct it."

The last directive for the PEF mission chain was terrible and WG surely went overboard with this one. It's happened before though, so I'm not surprised. You can avoid this grind by buying the ship though, and getting back the ships value in doubloons. The directive was ridiculously easy to complete with the ship itself, as playing with Eitel counted for multiple nations at once.

 

As far as grindable campaign ships go, usually they have a tendency to turn out as the maximum in averageness, so had no high expectations for the ship prior buying it, especially after the reviews came out.

 

Dispersion is in my experience not that big of a deal, if you use the guns close range and aim a bit high, which is what I've fitted the ship fo (close quarters)

[1MajorKoenig]

1 hour ago, Breezewind said:

As far as grindable campaign ships go, usually they have a tendency to turn out as the maximum in averageness, so had no high expectations for the ship prior buying it, especially after the reviews came out.

 

Again, being „free“ is no excuse for being meh. And it’s not like all Freemiums are bad. Vampire and Graf Spee are very strong, DoY is more a PEF kind of turd.

 

And with regards to „you got doubloons“ - I don’t care. There isn’t really anything interesting to spend doubloons on. So why even bother?

[Breezewind]

3 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Again, being „free“ is no excuse for being meh. And it’s not like all Freemiums are bad. Vampire and Graf Spee are very strong, DoY is more a PEF kind of turd.

 

And with regards to „you got doubloons“ - I don’t care. There isn’t really anything interesting to spend doubloons on. So why even bother?

It’s not an excuse for being good either. What I’m saying that one should not expect the ship to be exceptional just because there is a lot of effort behind to grind it. For me personally, there are interesting ships available for purchase for my doubloons, and this of course was one factor I considered when making the purchase desicion.

 

Now, what I see is not a good thing - the Eitel was so grindy to get. For last few years WG has catered these events for the whole playerbase. The game is free to play, but in my view if I was a f2p or a new player, the mission chain would have been plain boring. Totally average BB as a result of tedious grind. Maybe the mission should have been easier and clearly it was catered for the wallet warriors.

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, Breezewind said:

It’s not an excuse for being good either. What I’m saying that one should not expect the ship to be exceptional just because there is a lot of effort behind to grind it. For me personally, there are interesting ships available for purchase for my doubloons, and this of course was one factor I considered when making the purchase desicion.

 

Now, what I see is not a good thing - the Eitel was so grindy to get. For last few years WG has catered these events for the whole playerbase. The game is free to play, but in my view if I was a f2p or a new player, the mission chain would have been plain boring. Totally average BB as a result of tedious grind. Maybe the mission should have been easier and clearly it was catered for the wallet warriors.

 

I found the grind pretty short and relaxed this time. 

 

My point is I disagree with the sentiment that a ship that can be obtained through a campaign for free can be bad, unfun or whatnot just because it is free. “It’s free so don’t complain” - that’s what is wrong.

 

It doesn’t need to and shouldn’t be and “exceptional”. But it should be enjoyable. And looking at multiple threads here it looks like I am not alone with my opinion that PEF is not enjoyable. 

[Breezewind]

3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

I found the grind pretty short and relaxed this time. 

 

My point is I disagree with the sentiment that a ship that can be obtained through a campaign for free can be bad, unfun or whatnot just because it is free. “It’s free so don’t complain” - that’s what is wrong.

 

It doesn’t need to and shouldn’t be and “exceptional”. But it should be enjoyable. And looking at multiple threads here it looks like I am not alone with my opinion that PEF is not enjoyable. 

The sentiment I represent is that a premium ship can be good or bad, or from somewhere between. I have many premiums that are considered not-so-enjoyable. Sometimes I don’t like a ship first and then it grows on me. But then again, I’m actually enjoying playing the PEF, and am not alone either.

[1MajorKoenig]

5 minutes ago, Breezewind said:

The sentiment I represent is that a premium ship can be good or bad, or from somewhere between. I have many premiums that are considered not-so-enjoyable. Sometimes I don’t like a ship first and then it grows on me. But then again, I’m actually enjoying playing the PEF, and am not alone either.

 

Yes fine. And I am aware you can’t please everyone. But if a group of customers not enjoying a product grows to a certain size you could/should/must ask yourself the question if the product was designed in the right way or if it needs to be adjusted to make it more appealing.

 

Of course WG can say “we already got the money - and some even seem to like it - hey all good!”. 

But that would be incredibly short sighted and certainly not helpful for future sales. Until now we as (currently still) paying customers could be relatively sure that the premium ships are fun in their own rights. Now with PEF this doesn’t hold true anymore.

 

And again, if it would be just me it would be one thing. But the problem is much bigger.