Don’t buy PEF - she sucks hard

[Aragathor]

6 minutes ago, jss78 said:

I don't follow Flambass of Mejash -- Flamu's in my view an exceptional player of this game, who's not beyond being dramatic for the purposes of an entertaining video.

 

LWM's overall my favourite ship reviewer because she takes a level-headed and comprehensive look at the good, the bad, and the average -- without getting on bandwagons or participating in forum/reddit circle-jerks. I do agree with her opinion about the PEF -- this is probably a "mehbote", however one that's comfortable and fun to play (in most situations).

 

My sour attitude is affected by the patterns of forums repeatedly shitting bricks about WORST SHIP EVER (whatever it is that month) and calling for buffs, when not a shred of stats supports the claim. And then they complain about old ships getting power creeped. 

 

If the PEF turns out to objectively suck (=stats) after a few months, I'll freely admit I was wrong.

I have posted the relevant reviews of the CCs earlier in the thread. I have seen only one CC with a positive review and that was PointyHairedJedi. Everyone else is negative about the ship.

Speaking about LWM, reading more deeply about the ship one will quickly find out that the only good thing about this ship is the AA, which for a T6 BB isn't much, especially before the CV rework. Everything else is below average.

There are a lot of T6 premium BBs and PEF doesn't cut a good figure among them.

 

As to stats, let's wait and see if the ship is played after 0.8.0 drops.

[HaachamaShipping]

19 minutes ago, jss78 said:

I do agree with her opinion about the PEF -- this is probably a "mehbote", however one that's comfortable and fun to play (in most situations).

I would disagree on that. I'd argue, the most demonstrative part of her review was:

Quote

In many respects, Prinz Eitel Friedrich contrasts greatly with another recent premium:  West Virginia 1941.  In effect, players are allowed to pick their poison:

• Do you want an inflexible ship that cannot redeploy as needed but can do all of the damage when (if) she finally gets there?
• Or do you want a flexible ship that struggles to deal reliable damage against most targets?

In effect, one is effective but not terrible fun to play.  The other really makes you work for your results  but feels pretty comfortable on the whole.  I'll let you decide which description fits with which ship as it really depends upon your point of view and what traits you value more in a given ship.

And the main point why I personally find her unfun is pretty much down to that. I prefer a ship that is great where it is and requires me to consider positioning, rather than a ship that is basically able to get around fast, but has to work extra hard to even win a 1v1 against people who have an idea of what they are doing. In that sense, PEF feels not comfortable. It to me feels very Hipper... and I hate Hipper for much the same reasons as to why I don't like this ship.

12 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

2nd point: Well, same goes for NM and Fuso tho. Deck armor of all 3 is too much for any T6 BB actually. And shooting broadside against Bots that have specific paths sould be easy imo.

Deck armour of all three would be too much for any T6 BB. Only Musashi can get through Myoko's 32 mm deck and no AP gets through 48 mm Furutaka/Aoba deck. The frustrating part imo is that all three have 25 mm sides, which mean angled you can only aim for bow pens/cits in small caliber BBs, while others can also try overmatch the upper belt.

[DFens_666]

12 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

The frustrating part imo is that all three have 25 mm sides, which mean angled you can only aim for bow pens/cits in small caliber BBs, while others can also try overmatch the upper belt.

 

I use the speed to get into their broadside. Broadside citadel shots are always better than angled penetrations. First hits better and deals more damage, the latter is always a gamble on how many damage you deal.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I use the speed to get into their broadside. Broadside citadel shots are always better than angled penetrations. First hits better and deals more damage, the latter is always a gamble on how many damage you deal.

PEF: 28 knots

Mutsu: 26.5 knots

 

You can pretty much pen them while you flank and then shoot from the side, so why use PEF?

 

And before the matter is Mutsu's accuracy, it's pretty decent. I don't even use ASM1 and last Ranked Sprint I could wreck DDs with HE hits somewhat reliably. Which is the next fun thing... having to rely on secondaries to deal with the DD rush in Raptor Rescue, because the main battery sucks at the job.

[DFens_666]

16 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

PEF: 28 knots

Mutsu: 26.5 knots

 

You can pretty much pen them while you flank and then shoot from the side, so why use PEF?

 

And before the matter is Mutsu's accuracy, it's pretty decent. I don't even use ASM1 and last Ranked Sprint I could wreck DDs with HE hits somewhat reliably. Which is the next fun thing... having to rely on secondaries to deal with the DD rush in Raptor Rescue, because the main battery sucks at the job.

 

Because i dont have Mutsu? Also cant get Mutsu for free.

I can play QE/Bayern/NM/Fuso - all of them are slower than PEF. And usually QE is my 2nd favorite choice becuase of its sAP, good accuracy and overmatch.

 

PEF while a premium, can still be achieved by playing. So its like a silver ship. If someone doesnt spend money, he can still get PEF and have a better ship for OPs. Also you can use a good captain from a higher tier ship, unlike on silver ships.

[HaachamaShipping]

26 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Because i dont have Mutsu? Also cant get Mutsu for free.

I can play QE/Bayern/NM/Fuso - all of them are slower than PEF. And usually QE is my 2nd favorite choice becuase of its sAP, good accuracy and overmatch.

 

PEF while a premium, can still be achieved by playing. So its like a silver ship. If someone doesnt spend money, he can still get PEF and have a better ship for OPs. Also you can use a good captain from a higher tier ship, unlike on silver ships.

Normandie is free and 29.5 knots. And sure, if you can get PEF for free, great. But after this event, this ship is basically straight up not recommended by me for anyone looking for a premium T6 BB. I frankly rate Dunkerque higher than PEF. Not much, both have issues, but I feel slightly less frustrated with the Dunkerque.

[Verblonde]

Slightly to my surprise, I'm still playing PEF a bit, despite having done all the missions - in the current Op (Raptor?) she's actually rather fun. I'm running a soft-secondary build fwiw.

Wouldn't use her for anything serious, but I feel she does add something to my ship collection, in terms of potential for fun anyway...

[Aragathor]

6 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

Normandie is free and 29.5 knots.

Normandie with a dedicated secondary spec captain is superior to PEF in operations. Having 4 more guns, even at the cost of the AA is worth it.

I had played it in the inter-server CB test and it was hilarious.

 

But I disagree that it is worse than Dunkerque. The weak armor of the dunk and the derp guns make it a XP pinata for the enemy. IFHE eats it alive.

[SV_Kompresor]

It's a meh ship, but I dare say it's better than DoY.

[Verblonde]

4 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Normandie with a dedicated secondary spec captain is superior to PEF in operations.

Thanks for the reminder - I might give this a punt this evening; I keep forgetting about the French...

[HaachamaShipping]

3 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

But I disagree that it is worse than Dunkerque. The weak armor of the dunk and the derp guns make it a XP pinata for the enemy. IFHE eats it alive.

Dunkerque vs T6 can play a decent role as BB, vs T8 where T6 BBs take more supporting roles, the Dunkerque has far less issues staying a bit further back than PEF, because when Dunkerque hits at 15 km, it likely hurts, PEF is questionable. Speed-wise, both rely more on that than raw armour when uptiered. Yes, Dunkerque suffers more from IFHE than PEF, but not having to brawl to be functional helps a ton in not getting farmed to death. Lastly, Dunkerque has superior HE shells.

 

Overall, neither of the two is anywhere close to my preferred BBs of T6, but between the two, I prefer Dunkerque a tiny bit more.

[Puffin_]

PEF is the best T6 Battleship against aircraft carriers and destroyers. One of few BB in T6 that is not like a sitting fat duck when the planes arrives.

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, Seiranko said:

Normandie is free and 29.5 knots. And sure, if you can get PEF for free, great. But after this event, this ship is basically straight up not recommended by me for anyone looking for a premium T6 BB. I frankly rate Dunkerque higher than PEF. Not much, both have issues, but I feel slightly less frustrated with the Dunkerque.

 

Ok, forgot about Normandie... dont have it yet tho. (I really dont grind much )

Personaly i wouldnt buy it either. But 4 free its an ok ship imo.

[1MajorKoenig]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Ok, forgot about Normandie... dont have it yet tho. (I really dont grind much )

Personaly i wouldnt buy it either. But 4 free its an ok ship imo.

 

For balancing it doesn’t matter (or mustn’t) if the ship can be obtained for free

[Blizzard____]

On 12/20/2018 at 10:13 PM, 1MajorKoenig said:

The title says it all. This ship stinks so hard it’s not even an April fools joke.

 

 

- guns have worse pen than any T5 BB

- guns reload slow

- turrets turn slow 

- accuracy is typical BB-bad 

- shells have old-Yorck Airdrag (Moonrakers)

- advertised secondary guns are useless as one would expect as the skill doesn’t work below T7

 

(wait she’s got long range AA - yey)

 

 

 

Thanks for this royal f**-up for Christmas WG

 

 

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

3 hours ago, Verblonde said:

Slightly to my surprise, I'm still playing PEF a bit, despite having done all the missions - in the current Op (Raptor?) she's actually rather fun. I'm running a soft-secondary build fwiw.

Wouldn't use her for anything serious, but I feel she does add something to my ship collection, in terms of potential for fun anyway...

Sure will do good in operations, because the BBs you meet there are usually all 1-2 tiers lower.

And as such, it is sort of like a fat cruiser (which it is...) playing mega-top-tier. 

I bet she feels worse in co-op, as then she meets same-tier. 

Oh and try it at 'Defence of Newport'. Probably VERY good at that! 

 

3 hours ago, Seiranko said:

Normandie is free and 29.5 knots. And sure, if you can get PEF for free, great. But after this event, this ship is basically straight up not recommended by me for anyone looking for a premium T6 BB. I frankly rate Dunkerque higher than PEF. Not much, both have issues, but I feel slightly less frustrated with the Dunkerque.

Agreed. For free, well, what's the complaint. Get it or don't get it. To buy... well, nope. 

Unless it's 89 cents like Tachibanana or something. If coal, well maybe (as in: milk T6 operations).

[Aragathor]

48 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

For balancing it doesn’t matter (or mustn’t) if the ship can be obtained for free

In a week the PEF will cease to be available for free. But even this "free" isn't free as it costs time and energy to get there, and you have to value yourself and your time, because you are not going to get it back.

 

42 minutes ago, Blizzard____ said:

 

 

 

I'm impressed. A super unicum player wins big against a team that has an average winrate of 50,01%, that's 16% lower than your average stats and I'm not even going to talk about their personal rating. You belong to the top competitive clan of this season of CBs, your performance is as far away from the median as possible. You're a statistical outlier, and those offer nothing but problems in analysis, that's why they are removed before anything happens.

 

You've had a good game, great for you. But as it is, it says nothing about the ship. Because in all honesty you could have probably won that battle in a Hermelin.

[DFens_666]

39 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

For balancing it doesn’t matter (or mustn’t) if the ship can be obtained for free

 

Well, the discussion i had with Seiranko before was mostly about OPs/Raptor Rescue.

And i think its a good ship compared to the silver ships. Since PEF can be obtained by f2p, i might aswell compare it to silver ships. PEF isnt bad in OPs because Mutsu. I cant get Mutsu 4 free, nor would i buy it to play OPs with it. Same reason i wouldnt buy PEF. Im not really sure if i would buy any T6 premium ship which isnt borderline OP (T-61 anyone) because of it being midtier.

 

I think i mentioned it earlier: I rather feel that being a mediocre T6 ship makes CCs/testers say "dont buy it". There is not a good enough reason to buy it - doesnt mean its bad tho.

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, Aragathor said:

In a week the PEF will cease to be available for free. But even this "free" isn't free as it costs time and energy to get there, and you have to value yourself and your time, because you are not going to get it back.

 

That would literally make silver ships the same as premium ships. Takes more time btw to grind a T6 silver BB then the PEF.

[Major_Damage225]

Just gotten my PEF, the grind wasnt hard at all, barely played and finished it, now to test it out in ops to see what this tub can/cant do 

[Aragathor]

3 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

That would literally make silver ships the same as premium ships. Takes more time btw to grind a T6 silver BB then the PEF.

"There is no such thing as a free lunch."

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

2 hours ago, GudmundurG said:

PEF is the best T6 Battleship against aircraft carriers and destroyers. One of few BB in T6 that is not like a sitting fat duck when the planes arrives.

What exactly does PEF better against DDs? The only thing it really does well is spam low tier secondaries at them if they are spotted, but that's it.

 

Main battery has worst HE dpm and isn't even fast to get onto target. There's no BB worse at nuking DDs that try to rush it, at best there are some equally bad or almost as bad.

Speed is great, turning circle is not. It's not necessarily easier to dodge torps in this thing compared to others.

Secondaries are ok, but only valuable vs DDs that are spotted. Most DDs can just stealth torp you. Any DD that actually rushes you gets spotted at around 6 km or below and at that range PEF doesn't even have the best anti-DD secondaries of all T6s.

Torpedo belt isn't anything remarkable.

Lacks a catapult plane to help in spotting DDs or torps.

 

If I had to nominate a best anti-DD BB, I'd likely go for Mutsu. Handling isn't great on that ship either, but the high HE alpha main battery and pretty much the best anti-DD secondaries at 6 km or below as well as the ability to launch a catapult plane make her remarkably capable of fighting off DDs.

16 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Agreed. For free, well, what's the complaint. Get it or don't get it. To buy... well, nope. 

Unless it's 89 cents like Tachibanana or something. If coal, well maybe (as in: milk T6 operations).

Tachibana is worth 89 cents though, because it's OP. It's only kept in place by the tier its at, but T2 has competitive players, I heard...

16 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well, the discussion i had with Seiranko before was mostly about OPs/Raptor Rescue.

And i think its a good ship compared to the silver ships. Since PEF can be obtained by f2p, i might aswell compare it to silver ships. PEF isnt bad in OPs because Mutsu. I cant get Mutsu 4 free, nor would i buy it to play OPs with it. Same reason i wouldnt buy PEF. Im not really sure if i would buy any T6 premium ship which isnt borderline OP (T-61 anyone) because of it being midtier.

 

I think i mentioned it earlier: I rather feel that being a mediocre T6 ship makes CCs/testers say "dont buy it". There is not a good enough reason to buy it - doesnt mean its bad tho.

I bought multiple T6 premium BBs (including PEF, but due to steel) and the main reasons are:

• collector's value (Warspite for example)
• T6 competitive modes (Ranked Sprint and test CB show it might happen)
• Not every T6 BB is as bad at punching T7s and T8s. West Virginia, which I praised a lot is basically just a handicapped Colorado at T6 and I liked Colorado, so I don't mind playing it with risk of T8.

As for T6 non-BB premiums, Graf Spee if one didn't get it for free is an ok ship, Perth is a great ship too.

14 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

That would literally make silver ships the same as premium ships. Takes more time btw to grind a T6 silver BB then the PEF.

To be fair, you can grind a T6 silver BB within a week, not four and even in absolute time, F2P players might rather grind out a T6 BB than bother with 4th directive. Additionally, any T6 silver BB leads to higher tier BBs later down the line that are often quite decent to great, PEF leads nowhere. There's a lot more reasons to grind T6 BBs than to grind for this ship, just so you can have a ship in ops.

 

Also, because frankly, for ops, you can as well just use a 6 point captain and do fine and you should have at least one T6 BB unlocked anyway before playing T6 BBs like PEF.

[veslingr]

13 hours ago, Seiranko said:

Dunkerque vs T6 can play a decent role as BB, vs T8 where T6 BBs take more supporting roles, the Dunkerque has far less issues staying a bit further back than PEF, because when Dunkerque hits at 15 km, it likely hurts, PEF is questionable. Speed-wise, both rely more on that than raw armour when uptiered. Yes, Dunkerque suffers more from IFHE than PEF, but not having to brawl to be functional helps a ton in not getting farmed to death. Lastly, Dunkerque has superior HE shells.

 

Overall, neither of the two is anywhere close to my preferred BBs of T6, but between the two, I prefer Dunkerque a tiny bit more.

you wanna tell me now that even Dunq is bad ship? That ship is  DMG machine....i just think many peoples do not how to play BBs if he is not "classic" bbs which means angle 30% and over match opponent 

[HaachamaShipping]

5 minutes ago, veslingr said:

you wanna tell me now that even Dunq is bad ship? That ship is  DMG machine....i just think many peoples do not how to play BBs if he is not "classic" bbs which means angle 30% and over match opponent 

Clearly... Your 92 battles in one of the oldest T6 premiums clearly shows that this ship is producing outstanding damage numbers, way better than the tech line ships like Fuso... oh wait. No, Dunkerque is not a damage machine. If you can rack up higher damage numbers in Dunkerque than in most other T6 BBs, that doesn't mean Dunkerque is great. And the averages show similar things, when the same average damage on the Dunkerque doesn't even get you into purple on a good few other T6 BBs. So, what's your point with your not very statistically significant sample size of battles?

 

Fun fact: Dunkerque has the worst AP dpm of all T6 BBs. Combined with not very great accuracy.

[veslingr]

2 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

Clearly... Your 92 battles in one of the oldest T6 premiums clearly shows that this ship is producing outstanding damage numbers, way better than the tech line ships like Fuso... oh wait. No, Dunkerque is not a damage machine. If you can rack up higher damage numbers in Dunkerque than in most other T6 BBs, that doesn't mean Dunkerque is great. And the averages show similar things, when the same average damage on the Dunkerque doesn't even get you into purple on a good few other T6 BBs. So, what's your point with your not very statistically significant sample size of battles?

 

Fun fact: Dunkerque has the worst AP dpm of all T6 BBs. Combined with not very great accuracy.

100 battles is solid personal sample where good and bad strikes are evened. , and again you display common mistake in evaluating BBs - DPM and pen value totally forget about speed, and in this case tankines of ship and ability to have 100% time 100% uptime on guns.. In Dunq you will never open your side and risk devastation and you will have 100% DPM uptime.....no other BBS on t6 can have 100% DPM up time and be "safe" from devastation.

 

So theoretically most of other BBs on t 6 have higher DPM but in battle then can use 66% of their DPM most of time or even less.

 

Dunq and PEF have alot in common, they in fact are not BBs and if you do not play them as BBs they will yield resault