Don’t buy PEF - she sucks hard

[humpty_1]

i can't wait to get the steel so i can leave this pile of ------ in my port and get back to enjoying my game, i've tried playing at distance/middle ground/ and close up, and i'm sorry but even with aim mod 2 etc this thing still mostly misses from 7km away.lol. 8 shots 7 misses(granted you'll have 1 good barrage but from close up it should be better). i'm not that bad of an aim. surely not..lol.

[veslingr]

15 minutes ago, humpty_1 said:

i can't wait to get the steel so i can leave this pile of ------ in my port and get back to enjoying my game, i've tried playing at distance/middle ground/ and close up, and i'm sorry but even with aim mod 2 etc this thing still mostly misses from 7km away.lol. 8 shots 7 misses(granted you'll have 1 good barrage but from close up it should be better). i'm not that bad of an aim. surely not..lol.

funny thing - it is one of more precise BB on t 6, also other funny thing is that it is your second best t6 BBs performar out of 5 of them.

 

and most funny thing of all of them is your hit ratio:

 

PEF - 36,17%

Mexico - 25,97%

QE - 26,22%

Normandie - 24,22%

Warspite 20,53%

 

so what the hell are you talking about? you have 10% more hit reatio in it than in second best ship....MAN WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?????

[DFens_666]

16 minutes ago, humpty_1 said:

i can't wait to get the steel so i can leave this pile of ------ in my port and get back to enjoying my game, i've tried playing at distance/middle ground/ and close up, and i'm sorry but even with aim mod 2 etc this thing still mostly misses from 7km away.lol. 8 shots 7 misses(granted you'll have 1 good barrage but from close up it should be better). i'm not that bad of an aim. surely not..lol.

 

Hitrate:

QE: 26.22 %

NM: 25.97 %

PEF: 36.17 %

Warspite: 20.53 %

Normandie: 24.22 %

 

These are your numbers btw

Even if you compate the 8vs12 gun ships, you hit ~3 shells per salvo. So its similiar to NM/Normandie, but much better than your QE/Warspite (1,6-2 hits per salvo!)

 

ninjaed by @veslingr

 

[Juanx]

2 minutes ago, veslingr said:

funny thing - it is one of more precise BB on t 6, also other funny thing is that it is your second best t6 BBs performar out of 5 of them.

 

and mostu finny thing of all of them is your hit ratio:

 

PEF - 36,17%

Mexico - 25,97%

QE - 26,22%

Normandie - 24,22%

Warspite 20,53%

 

so what the hell are you talking about? you have 10% more hit reatio in it than in second best ship....MAN WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?????

 

But you dont get it, it "feels" bad, and the world around me is telling me the same, so IT MUST BE BAD...

 

Just like the other "special" poster asking for a refund on its musashi, because after some under 20 games, it was at about 25% WR or less, even tho it is its best ship damage wise IIRC.

 

As already posted: what is it with people and thinkling nowadays?

[veslingr]

3 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

But you dont get it, it "feels" bad, and the world around me is telling me the same, so IT MUST BE BAD...

 

Just like the other "special" poster asking for a refund on its musashi, because after some under 20 games, it was at about 25% WR or less, even tho it is its best ship damage wise IIRC.

 

As already posted: what is it with people and thinkling nowadays?

i just dont get this idiotic train....IT SUCKSSSSSSS....and than you look at stat of ship and poster stats?!?! and it is not their worst ship..i just dont get it

 

and this is one of best example, poster is crying how this ship has bad guuns but in fact he has 10% more hitratio than any other ship in his t6 BBs arsenal...how, what the hell, where is the brain?

[humpty_1]

5 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Hitrate:

QE: 26.22 %

NM: 25.97 %

PEF: 36.17 %

Warspite: 20.53 %

Normandie: 24.22 %

 

These are your numbers btw

Even if you compate the 8vs12 gun ships, you hit ~3 shells per salvo. So its similiar to NM/Normandie, but much better than your QE/Warspite (1,6-2 hits per salvo!)

 

ninjaed by @veslingr

 

yeah, but those ships were played a long time ago. i'd like to think i've improved a bit since then. granted some of it might be he said she said sort of thing(that's why i waited longer, but still. mmm), but it just feels bad. but i will try to get better :)

[veslingr]

4 minutes ago, humpty_1 said:

yeah, but those ships were played a long time ago. i'd like to think i've improved a bit since then. granted some of it might be he said she said sort of thing(that's why i waited longer, but still. mmm), but it just feels bad. but i will try to get better :)

Musashi - 27,47

Lion - 31,47%

bart - 39,79

iowa - 32,91

Alsase - 27,78

 

PEF- 36,17

 

do i need to post anything else? Stop reading forum and idiots in it that write bulshit and form your own opinion...it is your second most precise ship of all BBs..it is eaven more precise than [edited]sniper Musashi to you

[quickr]

12 minutes ago, Juanx said:

and the world around me is telling me the same, so IT MUST BE BAD...

I think you've narrowed it down quite well.. Herd mentality.

[veslingr]

@humpty_1 if you wanna object to this ship, it is not hit ratio, it is pen value and DPM, also it HE is bad...i call it 1050 DMG ship, cause 90% hits are 1050 :)

 

and ONLY way to bypass that is to play it like flanking cruiser...you just need broadside ships if you really wanna hurt somebody.

 

it is long ship but its speed and maneuverability is ok for flanking while other BBs just can not do that on t6 or they do not need to do it...but in PEF you need to do it if you want to have success in it.

 

It is not a great ship, it is free premium ship and most of them are just MEH....but it is not ship from hell.

 

i would call it perfect LEARNING ship that FORCES you to use position and BRAIN rather then strong side of ship. Everybody can do good in Belfast (eaven potatoes), only good player can do good in bad ship.

 

 

 

 

[humpty_1]

18 minutes ago, veslingr said:

@humpty_1 if you wanna object to this ship, it is not hit ratio, it is pen value and DPM, also it HE is bad...i call it 1050 DMG ship, cause 90% hits are 1050 :)

 

and ONLY way to bypass that is to play it like flanking cruiser...you just need broadside ships if you really wanna hurt somebody.

 

it is long ship but its speed and maneuverability is ok for flanking while other BBs just can not do that on t6 or they do not need to do it...but in PEF you need to do it if you want to have success in it.

 

It is not a great ship, it is free premium ship and most of them are just MEH....but it is not ship from hell.

 

i would call it perfect LEARNING ship that FORCES you to use position and BRAIN rather then strong side of ship. Everybody can do good in Belfast (eaven potatoes), only good player can do good in bad ship.

 

 

 

 

yeah, i'd say that's bang on.  :) :) :)   i've noticed i have to switch ap/he almost every shot or so to get best value :)

[Lootboxer]

It is not that bad in terms of dispersion but it sucks badly even on even slightly angled BBs. Do not know its pen values but it must be like half of the others T6s. At least it feels like. 

[Armorin]

This time sorted by main battery hit ratio with another 8000'ish game stats collected. It's really not that a bad ship performance wise, but I guess it just feels horrible to play because it ain't going to give them big hits against other BB's.

 

[Cippalippus]

It's a terrible ship but t6 is a fun tier to play nowadays, lots of PEF not having a clue and going down harder than my ex girlfriend 

[Aragathor]

3 hours ago, veslingr said:

 

 

Here it is

 

and now part about buying S....well when you compare t6 freeemium with t7 ship that can only be bought by real money i can compare all of them with prize ship.

 

that is  why i said it is idiotic to "recommend" Scharnhorst over PEF

You are ignoring the fact that Mejash's review is aimed at future potential buyers of the PEF. The event ends soon and then the ship will cost money.

[BLUB__BLUB]

7 hours ago, Armorin said:

I suppose it's the grindy missions forcing people to play the ship a lot that makes people hate it. Okay, the guns are as a big RNG lottery that needs a gambling licence, but overall the ship doesn't seem to be doing too badly for a T6 BB on the stats I've collected so far. Top on main battery hit ratio, top on potential damage, 2nd on win rate, 2nd on kills, 3rd on damage. My stats collection process lags a bit so will be interesting to see where it is in a few weeks time once all the PEF grinds are included.

Well, look at this post: 

....those PEFs on the other side (3 win, 1 lose) means a total 2 win nett. 

Indeed we'll see what it does when the 'PEF spam' is over. 

For now I'll just enjoy smacking them a bit in Texas, Arizona and Hood... 

 

[black_falcon120]

5 hours ago, Armorin said:

This time sorted by main battery hit ratio with another 8000'ish game stats collected. It's really not that a bad ship performance wise, but I guess it just feels horrible to play because it ain't going to give them big hits against other BB's.

 

I think it’s more it’s speed let’s you get into good positions, but then its guns let it down time and time again, doing ~10k damage a salvo each time and then watch it add up.

[Ze_Reckless]

Full AA PEF is fun, especially with all those double CV games in mid tiers. I didn't buy her and she doesn't suck (@title).

 

Spoiler

 

 

[jss78]

20 games in -- I think I still like this ship. I love the aggressive play style suggested by the full set of features. Some games are supremely frustrating, especially if you're uptiered and don't have any place you can push that's not totally suicidal.

 

The bad:

Poor/situational main gun performance -- can be good vs. soft targets but REALLY struggles against tough/well angled targets.

Turret rotation (this would be my #1 wish for a buff).

The average:

Survivability -- doesn't really stand out among T6 BB's one way or the other.

The good:

Excellent speed.

Excellent firing angles (both main guns and secondaries).

Accurate guns (yes, really).

Great secondaries.

Best AA.

Pretty much the perfect ship for T6 operations.

 

I dislike a lot of the negative commentary because they tend to be extremely melodramatic about a single bad thing, while ignoring or downplaying the good things. But that's the case in most comments about "garbage" ships (which more often than not are not such, if you look at the stats).

 

I'm genuinely interested to see where the long-term stats will stabilize. I don't see a ship here that is trash tier among T6 BB's -- at least among the better players who're capable of doing the full analysis of a ship and playing her accordingly.

 

 

[Aragathor]

4 minutes ago, jss78 said:

I don't see a ship here that is trash tier among T6 BB's -- at least among the better players who're capable of doing the full analysis of a ship and playing her accordingly. 

Are you claiming that people like Flambass, Flamu, and Mejash, are wrong because they can't utilize the ship properly? All three have better stats than you in the PEF and judge the ship poorly.

[HaachamaShipping]

6 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Hitrate:

QE: 26.22 %

NM: 25.97 %

PEF: 36.17 %

Warspite: 20.53 %

Normandie: 24.22 %

 

These are your numbers btw

Even if you compate the 8vs12 gun ships, you hit ~3 shells per salvo. So its similiar to NM/Normandie, but much better than your QE/Warspite (1,6-2 hits per salvo!)

I mean, comparing hit ratios is nice. Explaining hit ratios though...

 

Like, one of my best examples for hit ratio and what it means would be T7s. My highest hit rate of any T7 BB is on Gneisenau. Noone would call Gneisenau an accurate BB though. Certainly not more accurate than most others, yet it somehow trumps my hit rates in Colorado, Nagato, Nelson, Scharnhorst... The reason for that comes after a bit of thinking though and that is the fact: I play Gneisenau aggressively and take most shots from way closer than I do with ships like Nelson, Nagato or Colorado, which are a good bit less tanky and often slower to get into forward positions. Also, I have only 6 guns, so this style of play is best, as it helps compensate a bit for the low barrel count. I wouldn't call PEF a Gneisenau though, because Gneisenau gets all the tools for the brawling job: Best armour scheme, best speed, best secondaries, a set of torps, fast turning quick reloading guns (with overmatch). PEF basically just gets decent speed and the secondaries. It's far less of the close range threat the Gneisenau is for its tier. A Gneisenau can go up vs T9s far better than a PEF against T7s even.

 

Another thing is, Gneisenau isn't a better BB. It just is a BB with a different specialisation. If not an almost over-specialisation. If Gneisenau wasn't so very damn great at the thing it could do, it would be far worse, as it basically would be forced into a crappy role and would feel limited (and basically this is what imo causes still most of the complaints about Gneisenau by people who don't understand or don't appreciate the specialisation). This is why I don't like the PEF. It does feel forced to go close, but it does not reward going close. Yes, it becomes more functional going close, but I can't say a ship that has to close in to be anywhere decent is a good ship. If it was able to actually be great up close, then we could talk, but it isn't. And that's what I think might also put into perspective some of the hit rate differences between PEF and 8-gun BBs at T6. Yes, PEF hits stuff more often. But there's a hella difference between the impact of a PEF WWI vintage AP shell and the shells of most other T6 8-gun BBs, which with the exception of Dunkerque overmatch and hit far harder (Dunkerque gets insane pen though, so if overmatch isn't the issue, Dunkerque does perform better at range against BBs). A West Virginia shell, regardless of range, will leave a dent on a hit (unsurprising, given these guns basically were strong at T7 and are absolute bonkers at T6) and West Virginia can fire salvos at 15 km and expect pretty solid numbers on hits. PEF meanwhile has to consider whether it even wants to try. So, naturally, a good PEF player will waste less shells at range, but not because they are better than that scrub in another T6 8-gun BB, but because their ship just does not support this style of play. Sadly, it however also doesn't very well support the close range style of play, as Warspite/Bayern/WV can basically crap on PEF regardless of range if played properly, secondaries don't make up for the main battery disadvantage. Mutsu and QE are easier to mess up, because QE has horrid turret traverse, Mutsu has an easy to hit citadel. But if that cannot be exploited, both can demolish PEF too.

25 minutes ago, jss78 said:

Pretty much the perfect ship for T6 operations.

I'll just disagree with that. I tried PEF in Raptor Rescue and my experience was:

• Speed sounds nice, but none of these ops are going at an insane pace. Something like Newport is easy to cover with 21 knots even. Even stuff like Killer Whale can be easily completed in a 21 knot BB.
• The dpm is decidedly mediocre. Nothing to brag about here. The lack of overmatch makes fighting Furutakas, Aobas, Myokos and such, which happen to exist in T6 ops, a massive pain that you certainly don't have with BBs that just don't give a damn.
• The main advantage of speed would be being able to flex a bit. In something like Ultimate Frontier, being fast to deal with Atlanta is great. In most of these ops, the main thing to deal with that spawns elsewhere are CVs and their BB replacements. Here, I found that the main issue with PEF is, that if the CVs run off, catching some Zuihou or Ryuujou is still a pain in the butt and if they get spotted, PEF is actually quite starved for range and doesn't have a plane to help. BBs meanwhile are more likely to close in and those you can demolish better with other BBs.

PEF is not a T6 Scharnhorst that is great for ops. Scharnhorst is great becaus it is a great cruiser killer. PEF is at best a cruiser killer because killing other stuff s harder. I'd rather take a WV or Warspite into ops than PEF, because I know that where I am, I am effective.

 

Though, favourite T6 for ops for me is Graf Spee.

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Are you claiming that people like Flambass, Flamu, and Mejash, are wrong because they can't utilize the ship properly? All three have better stats than you in the PEF and judge the ship poorly. 

 

WEll, hearing Flambass f.e. he seems like he is pissy that it got nerfed after the initial tests?

Should we refer to the video where is says PEF is garbage?

- First salvo he misses the shot because his aim is off - he blaims the ship? Ok so take shotgun Fuso/NM for retard citadel i guess Make america retard dispersion great again !

- His second salvo devastated the Algerie - should be without lock on dispersion, but i doubt that myself. Dispersion is too accurate (i blame the lock on bug, which seem to make up for weird salvos in both ways)

 

He complains getting only overpen on Cruisers at the beginning - yet gets multiple citadels on them anyway

I guess Flambass doesnt know much about AP penetration and fuse time / armor thresholds to arm the shell ? The bigger the caliber, the more likely it gets to overpen a soft target. Cruisers at that tier have like 10-16mm plating. If you dont hit the citadel armor, you simply will overpen them broadside. This isnt limited to PEF but to all BBs.

 

His point is basicly, if PEF has to fight angled targets it sucks. Basicly you could say the same about Stalingrad

[HaachamaShipping]

9 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

His point is basicly, if PEF has to fight angled targets it sucks. Basicly you could say the same about Stalingrad

No, you just have to hit the citadel box most of the time. Angled CA is the mixed blessing of being easier to not overpen, but in many cases its when you actually just bounce off. T5s you can devastate that way, T6s mostly, many T7s and almost all T8 meanwhile just laugh at you shooting them while angled. Which is imo another point where I'd rather play something with more shells or with better overmatch, where you either have more crap to throw at them or you just don't care about angling. And thus I don't consider the PEF anything outstanding in the cruiser-killer role, when half the BBs at T6 are more threatening to cruisers (especially higher tier ones) than the PEF.

[jss78]

20 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Are you claiming that people like Flambass, Flamu, and Mejash, are wrong because they can't utilize the ship properly? All three have better stats than you in the PEF and judge the ship poorly.

I don't follow Flambass of Mejash -- Flamu's in my view an exceptional player of this game, who's not beyond being dramatic for the purposes of an entertaining video.

 

LWM's overall my favourite ship reviewer because she takes a level-headed and comprehensive look at the good, the bad, and the average -- without getting on bandwagons or participating in forum/reddit circle-jerks. I do agree with her opinion about the PEF -- this is probably a "mehbote", however one that's comfortable and fun to play (in most situations).

 

My sour attitude is affected by the patterns of forums repeatedly shitting bricks about WORST SHIP EVER (whatever it is that month) and calling for buffs, when not a shred of stats supports the claim. And then they complain about old ships getting power creeped. 

 

If the PEF turns out to objectively suck (=stats) after a few months, I'll freely admit I was wrong.

[GulvkluderGuld]

46 minutes ago, jss78 said:

20 games in -- I think I still like this ship. I love the aggressive play style suggested by the full set of features. Some games are supremely frustrating, especially if you're uptiered and don't have any place you can push that's not totally suicidal.

 

The bad:

Poor/situational main gun performance -- can be good vs. soft targets but REALLY struggles against tough/well angled targets.

Turret rotation (this would be my #1 wish for a buff).

The average:

Survivability -- doesn't really stand out among T6 BB's one way or the other.

The good:

Excellent speed.

Excellent firing angles (both main guns and secondaries).

Accurate guns (yes, really).

Great secondaries.

Best AA.

Pretty much the perfect ship for T6 operations.

 

I dislike a lot of the negative commentary because they tend to be extremely melodramatic about a single bad thing, while ignoring or downplaying the good things. But that's the case in most comments about "garbage" ships (which more often than not are not such, if you look at the stats).

 

I'm genuinely interested to see where the long-term stats will stabilize. I don't see a ship here that is trash tier among T6 BB's -- at least among the better players who're capable of doing the full analysis of a ship and playing her accordingly.

 

 

Pretty much agree with this. Guns are fairly accurate, but the pen is awful meaning the guns have an effective range of 7 km.

Anything more, and all you get is 5k overpen volleys. Incidentically, the secondaries have a maximum range around 7 km.

So it really is like german BBs in a nutshell. Unfortunately the secondaries are well....crap.

 

Relatively speaking, It is surprisingly my second best performing T6 BB, only getting edged out narrowly by the QE (in absolute stats, it is actually my best T6 BB).

 

What makes this ship struggle is the low effective range of the main guns, which is not so much a problem in tier 6, but once it gets uptiered and everyone fights at longer ranges, it really starts to struggle.

[DFens_666]

22 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

[...] hitratio [...]

 

Oh i understand the difference, Gneisenau is my most accurate T7 BB aswell

But since someone claims, PEF is inaccurate (even at close range - his words) and you look at his Hitratio, then the claim is questionable at best.

 

Quote

I'll just disagree with that. I tried PEF in Raptor Rescue and my experience was:

• Speed sounds nice, but none of these ops are going at an insane pace. Something like Newport is easy to cover with 21 knots even. Even stuff like Killer Whale can be easily completed in a 21 knot BB.
• The dpm is decidedly mediocre. Nothing to brag about here. The lack of overmatch makes fighting Furutakas, Aobas, Myokos and such, which happen to exist in T6 ops, a massive pain that you certainly don't have with BBs that just don't give a damn. 
• The main advantage of speed would be being able to flex a bit. In something like Ultimate Frontier, being fast to deal with Atlanta is great. In most of these ops, the main thing to deal with that spawns elsewhere are CVs and their BB replacements. Here, I found that the main issue with PEF is, that if the CVs run off, catching some Zuihou or Ryuujou is still a pain in the butt and if they get spotted, PEF is actually quite starved for range and doesn't have a plane to help. BBs meanwhile are more likely to close in and those you can demolish better with other BBs.

PEF is not a T6 Scharnhorst that is great for ops. Scharnhorst is great becaus it is a great cruiser killer. PEF is at best a cruiser killer because killing other stuff s harder. I'd rather take a WV or Warspite into ops than PEF, because I know that where I am, I am effective.

 

I feel its actually quite nice atleast in Raptor Rescue (not sure about the others)

Had my damage record in it i think, most certainly for BBs.

2nd point: Well, same goes for NM and Fuso tho. Deck armor of all 3 is too much for any T6 BB actually. And shooting broadside against Bots that have specific paths sould be easy imo.

Speed and maneuvrability are good and so are the secondaries. I attacked the 2 DDs in the middle of the map several times, and more often dodged all torps and killed the DDs. Its harder with other BBs, but easier with Cruisers ofc. Slow BBs can even lack the speed to be upfront, but the speed enables you to fight the CV and get back into the game, if needed.

Also i like to go brawling against the BBs and [edited]em up close - the pen is good enough there