Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
___V_E_N_O_M___

PEF guns really suck, cant overmatch BB armour

139 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[RL7S]
Players
246 posts
3,263 battles
22 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 Name me t6 ship which isn't useless against 8s. Please do.

Mutsu is strong, I’ve citadelled North Carolinas at range, is fast enough to keep up with tier 8 play and everyone thinks you have weak side armour so you can bait shells into the angled belt.

 

Queen Elizabeth/Warspite hit like a freight train regardless of target tier. Not going to tank much but they can effortlessly do 20k+ into the side of a Bismarck or Richelieu and I’ve straight up 2-shot tier 8 cruisers so disregard at your peril.

 

Long range HE spammers like Nurnberg also work pretty good in tier 8, and DDs in general uptier well.

 

Just not that impressed with how PEF looks, people comparing it with Kongo are right, could well be a tier 5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[POI--]
Players
6,235 posts
7,452 battles
15 minutes ago, Alex_Connor said:

and DDs in general uptier well.

DDs actually uptier very poorly, if a T8 DD is in the game as well. The T8 concealment mod makes life for t6s very hard. For example a T6 DD like T-61 has 6.1 km concealment, which is great for T6, but on T8, you won't even get a real warning before running into an Akizuki. Playing against ships like Benson, Kidd, Loyang, Cossack or harekaze meanwhile will just mean that the only way to win the cap fight is if you gotvery reliable support and the enemy has barely any, because getting outspotte and outgunned spells a quick end to your ship. Of course if no T8 DDs are around, a T6 DD can just freely torp t8 ships like it can torp T6s. But without other BBs around, T6 BBs can gun at T8 cruisers as much as they want too. And at least the ships with overmatch guns really care less about whether that target was a Dallas or a Cleveland. Both get wrecked about equally if hit.

 

I'd say, cruisers uptier better than DDs andon par with BBs.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[RL7S]
Players
246 posts
3,263 battles
1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

DDs actually uptier very poorly, if a T8 DD is in the game as well. The T8 concealment mod makes life for t6s very hard. For example a T6 DD like T-61 has 6.1 km concealment, which is great for T6, but on T8, you won't even get a real warning before running into an Akizuki. Playing against ships like Benson, Kidd, Loyang, Cossack or harekaze meanwhile will just mean that the only way to win the cap fight is if you gotvery reliable support and the enemy has barely any, because getting outspotte and outgunned spells a quick end to your ship. Of course if no T8 DDs are around, a T6 DD can just freely torp t8 ships like it can torp T6s. But without other BBs around, T6 BBs can gun at T8 cruisers as much as they want too. And at least the ships with overmatch guns really care less about whether that target was a Dallas or a Cleveland. Both get wrecked about equally if hit.

 

I'd say, cruisers uptier better than DDs andon par with BBs.

Agree on your points but as a tier 6 DD you’ll be unlucky to have more than one enemy tier 8 DD and a t6 DD can still thrive in that environment.

 

Tier 7 is harsher because you’ll get matched with more tier 8-9 that either outgun you, out spot you or both, though by compensation tier 7 gets to be top tier a lot.

 

PEF isn’t automically the worst BB to get unmatched (New Mexico is worse?) but still pretty harsh for a 14in gunned BB without modern shells and 8 guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[POI--]
Players
6,235 posts
7,452 battles
1 minute ago, Alex_Connor said:

PEF isn’t automically the worst BB to get unmatched (New Mexico is worse?) but still pretty harsh for a 14in gunned BB without modern shells and 8 guns.

Tbh, I hated the New Mexico and was very happy when I got to Colorado. But if I had to pick one of the two to play for competitive, I'd take New Mexico over PEF. Yes, it is slow, yes the accuracy gets a bit more wonky, but having 12 guns with some actually very impressive penetration makes up for it. New Mexico also has decent concealment and soon gets Colorado heal, so it is and will be a decent BB. The ship does pack a punch when it catches a broadside and the concealment allows to get some surprise salvos off. When bottom tier, you also can still shoot at targets a bit further out and do decent damage and in the rare occasions where HE is necessary, 12 guns gives it an ok punch. I did manage to fend off Scharnhorsts with that. PEF meanwhile lacks most of that just to get speed and AA. And you can get around being inflexible by planning ahead where to go. Easier than trying to figure out how to get good dpm out of this ship and not just be fast, but ineffective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Weekend Tester
855 posts
6,224 battles

I must eat my words where I praised this PEF.

 

I realize that this ship is terrible. Well, guns dispersion is bad and if a shell hit to target. It is around 1-2k and If you are lucky to get citadel to enemy 12k great, but overall performance on this ship on me is terrible. WR is now around 20%... well, holiday teams. :fish_palm:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DREAD]
Players
7,995 posts
6,005 battles
1 hour ago, Alex_Connor said:

Agree on your points but as a tier 6 DD you’ll be unlucky to have more than one enemy tier 8 DD and a t6 DD can still thrive in that environment.

 

Tier 7 is harsher because you’ll get matched with more tier 8-9 that either outgun you, out spot you or both, though by compensation tier 7 gets to be top tier a lot.

 

PEF isn’t automically the worst BB to get unmatched (New Mexico is worse?) but still pretty harsh for a 14in gunned BB without modern shells and 8 guns.

 

New Mex is much much better. In fact PEF is by a comfortable margin the worst T6 BB or any T6 ship for that matter. She would only even be mediocre at T5 at best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,988 battles
7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

It has 8 guns, so 28 second reload pretty much leads to one of the worst dpm numbers at T6

And yet DPM isn't want you're after in a BB, at least as long as it's not something like Scharn / Rep

 

What you generally want is a single devastating hit instead of scratching the enemy every 30-or-so-seconds for X dmg

 

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

The lack of penetration at range means 

That you should stop sniping from max range and move a little bit closer. Pure magic how that fixes the "problem"

 

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

Fire chance per shell is among the poorest

Pretty average for the caliber

 

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

low HE alpha

Typically german

 

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

setting fires is harder than in other BBs

But thanks to accuracy you still land enough shells to get similar numbers of fires set

 

Lets take a look to EU over the week from 16th to 22nd Dec (maplesyrup ofc). PFE not included as it was released on.... 20th?

 

YDlDmDS.png

 

This leads to

gSDuCTn.png

 

To reach those PFEs hitrate would need to be...

tIPmYL2.png

 

While it's definitely won't be the best in the tier, going by it's accuracy it's probably going to be quite comfortably in the middle. And again, every new ship not being the best at everything isn't bad

(also note how per min it needs less hits because of that sub-30s reload)

 

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

34 second reload on 12 guns still leads to higher effective dpm.

No, it leads to higher THEORETICAL reload. With identical H.disp. (or worse if you run accuracy in PFEs 3rd lost), 0.5 less sigma (unlike the typical 0.1 changes 0.5 difference will be properly noticeable) and [probably] rather comparable V.disp. NewMex simply won't land enough shells to make any difference noticeable

 

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

A Fuso at the ranges PEF can fight at is accurate enough to work.

And yet PFE's more accurate, thus both will probably land a similar amount of shells on target over the same time

 

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

but PEF even when it lands shells doesn't do much against armoured targets. 

I think this is where the "git gud" part of amo & target selection comes in

 

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

I mean, you can try to bait shells on your belt. Enemies obliging with it isn't really up to you though.

You can, no "try" needed. And sure, they can still shoot my bow for a bunch of overpens, I don't mind.

 

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

And it's easy to dismiss this with "Just get closer". Vs T5s and T6s, sure, just get closer, T7s partially too, but at T8

It still works vs cruisers, and when it comes to BBs - either it's not your job, or aim for the superstructure / upper hull as they are thin enough

 

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

The starkest contrast likely is West Virginia, which basically only suffers in being slow and a bit low on hp, but otherwise has the bite to punch T8 BBs at any range.

Because having t7 guns at t6 is such a good comparison to having the "old-standard" t6 guns, aye?

 

7 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

A) I don’t want a ship “better” than what’s in the game so far.

Then why are you complaining it's not more accurate than Warspite - the most accurate t6 BB if I'm not mistaken?

Also funny how PFEs 8 guns x 28s is a problem for you, meanwhile you use Warspites 8 guns x 30s as an example of an accurate ship :fish_palm:

 

7 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

I want to have an overall sound, fun and well balanced package.

Which it is, as long as you aren't a potato sniping from the max range.

 

7 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

AP is worse than T5 Konigs starting around 8/9km.

Really?

1ykL2NZ.png

 

Oh wow, it's almost as if this is another case of you not having the slightest clue what you're talking about

 

6 hours ago, Alex_Connor said:

Mutsu is strong, I’ve citadelled North Carolinas at range, is fast enough to keep up with tier 8 play and everyone thinks you have weak side armour so you can bait shells into the angled belt.

Mutsu mostly benefits from her gun caliber. And citadelling higher-tier US [silver] BBs isn't exactly an accomplishment, even after their citadel was lowered

 

6 hours ago, Alex_Connor said:

Queen Elizabeth/Warspite hit like a freight train regardless of target tier. Not going to tank much but they can effortlessly do 20k+ into the side of a Bismarck or Richelieu and I’ve straight up 2-shot tier 8 cruisers so disregard at your peril.

Hit hard assuming you get in range.

 

Lets take a look at Warspite - 16.3km with 23.5kts speed. Good luck at it as 5 of 10 t8 cruisers (6 of 12 with both "testing" cruisers included) outrange you, the others nearly match you falling behind by... half a kilometer? Yeah, that will surely help you

 

And that's not even looking at BBs smacking you from any angle

 

6 hours ago, Alex_Connor said:

Nurnberg

Yeah, the mis-oneshot who was an easy target to 4s when 6s still met those will do soooo good in t8 battles :fish_palm:I haven't seen any other ship in this whole game being onehit as much as Nurnberg regardless of her MM, she really doesn't do any tiering well.

 

Also apparently I should complement you on the DD edit

 

3 hours ago, Admiral_Noif said:

guns dispersion is bad

Only when you are "smart" enough to compare it to crusiers and DDs. She's super accurate for a BB, especially for her tier

 

3 hours ago, Admiral_Noif said:

It is around 1-2k and If you are lucky to get citadel to enemy 12k great

^ this describes literally every single BB in the whole game

 

 

  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DREAD]
Players
7,995 posts
6,005 battles
1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

And yet DPM isn't want you're after in a BB, at least as long as it's not something like Scharn / Rep

 

What you generally want is a single devastating hit instead of scratching the enemy every 30-or-so-seconds for X dmg

 

That you should stop sniping from max range and move a little bit closer. Pure magic how that fixes the "problem"

 

Pretty average for the caliber

 

Typically german

 

But thanks to accuracy you still land enough shells to get similar numbers of fires set

 

Lets take a look to EU over the week from 16th to 22nd Dec (maplesyrup ofc). PFE not included as it was released on.... 20th?

 

YDlDmDS.png

 

This leads to

gSDuCTn.png

 

To reach those PFEs hitrate would need to be...

tIPmYL2.png

 

While it's definitely won't be the best in the tier, going by it's accuracy it's probably going to be quite comfortably in the middle. And again, every new ship not being the best at everything isn't bad

(also note how per min it needs less hits because of that sub-30s reload)

 

No, it leads to higher THEORETICAL reload. With identical H.disp. (or worse if you run accuracy in PFEs 3rd lost), 0.5 less sigma (unlike the typical 0.1 changes 0.5 difference will be properly noticeable) and [probably] rather comparable V.disp. NewMex simply won't land enough shells to make any difference noticeable

 

And yet PFE's more accurate, thus both will probably land a similar amount of shells on target over the same time

 

I think this is where the "git gud" part of amo & target selection comes in

 

You can, no "try" needed. And sure, they can still shoot my bow for a bunch of overpens, I don't mind.

 

It still works vs cruisers, and when it comes to BBs - either it's not your job, or aim for the superstructure / upper hull as they are thin enough

 

Because having t7 guns at t6 is such a good comparison to having the "old-standard" t6 guns, aye?

 

Then why are you complaining it's not more accurate than Warspite - the most accurate t6 BB if I'm not mistaken?

Also funny how PFEs 8 guns x 28s is a problem for you, meanwhile you use Warspites 8 guns x 30s as an example of an accurate ship :fish_palm:

 

Which it is, as long as you aren't a potato sniping from the max range.

 

Really?

1ykL2NZ.png

 

Oh wow, it's almost as if this is another case of you not having the slightest clue what you're talking about

 

Mutsu mostly benefits from her gun caliber. And citadelling higher-tier US [silver] BBs isn't exactly an accomplishment, even after their citadel was lowered

 

Hit hard assuming you get in range.

 

Lets take a look at Warspite - 16.3km with 23.5kts speed. Good luck at it as 5 of 10 t8 cruisers (6 of 12 with both "testing" cruisers included) outrange you, the others nearly match you falling behind by... half a kilometer? Yeah, that will surely help you

 

And that's not even looking at BBs smacking you from any angle

 

Yeah, the mis-oneshot who was an easy target to 4s when 6s still met those will do soooo good in t8 battles :fish_palm:I haven't seen any other ship in this whole game being onehit as much as Nurnberg regardless of her MM, she really doesn't do any tiering well.

 

Also apparently I should complement you on the DD edit

 

Only when you are "smart" enough to compare it to crusiers and DDs. She's super accurate for a BB, especially for her tier

 

^ this describes literally every single BB in the whole game

 

 

 

Dude do you even read what you are posting here...?:Smile_facepalm: 

 

(Hint: citadelling high tier US BBs at any range is no accomplishment by Mutsu. But PEFs snowflake-APs are gorgeous once you are closer than 14km... yea sure. Don’t worry that they are the worst they are great save the useless HE)

 

Looks like you keep repeating your useless stuff that was already dismissed 5 pages ago.. You don’t seem to get it but never mind. Don’t feed the troll they said. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,988 battles
1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

dismissed 5 pages ago

*screw it, editing myself cuz I can't afford another strike*

 

TL;DR of what was here previously - me disproving your claims (like that Konig gets better AP past 8...9km) isn't you disproving anything & git gud

  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[RL7S]
Players
246 posts
3,263 battles
3 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Mutsu mostly benefits from her gun caliber. And citadelling higher-tier US [silver] BBs isn't exactly an accomplishment, even after their citadel was lowered

 

Hit hard assuming you get in range.

 

Lets take a look at Warspite - 16.3km with 23.5kts speed. Good luck at it as 5 of 10 t8 cruisers (6 of 12 with both "testing" cruisers included) outrange you, the others nearly match you falling behind by... half a kilometer? Yeah, that will surely help you

 

And that's not even looking at BBs smacking you from any angle

 

Yeah, the mis-oneshot who was an easy target to 4s when 6s still met those will do soooo good in t8 battles :fish_palm:I haven't seen any other ship in this whole game being onehit as much as Nurnberg regardless of her MM, she really doesn't do any tiering well.

Mutsu does benefit from her gun caliber. But the base platform is at least as good as the PEF, so PEF is what? A Mutsu who trades a big chunk of firepower for AA and turret rotation?

 

Warspite and QE have spotting aircraft, 11.9km detection and this isn't an open sea 1v1 duel. Getting into range is not a problem, particularly when you can drop shells over islands like a cruiser.

 

Thing about Nurnberg is her strengths and weaknesses are the same regardless of MM. Fragile, but excellent range, shell velocity and good HE. Work targets down from 16km, stack the fires and don't get hit. Also the AP is downright nasty against cruisers in an ambush.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CAG]
Beta Tester
68 posts
9,056 battles

Played the ranked mostly with PEF, I think the guns are underwhelming,  but I don't necessarily think that they need a buff.

 

Instead I'd love to see a secondary buff to 10km, as that should help to offset the gun weaknesses and give it a distinct niche.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[POI--]
Players
6,235 posts
7,452 battles
33 minutes ago, Alteisen said:

Played the ranked mostly with PEF, I think the guns are underwhelming,  but I don't necessarily think that they need a buff.

 

Instead I'd love to see a secondary buff to 10km, as that should help to offset the gun weaknesses and give it a distinct niche.

Secondaries won't hit a thing at 10 km, because T6 does not get the proper benefit from Manual secondaries that T7+ gets. So, it'd be mostly useless.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
864 posts
15,259 battles

I have a question.

When playing the PEF in operation Aegis  i noticed an incredible amount of pens without damage.

Every salvo had 1-2 pens which did no damage at all.

(I grinded the nerves of steel combat mission, so i did a few rounds)

 

 

Is the ribbon system flawed or is there a general problem with damage calculation?

Or is it just the PEF guns?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ADRIA]
Players
4,945 posts
7,988 battles
1 hour ago, JG4_sKylon said:

When playing the PEF in operation Aegis  i noticed an incredible amount of pens without damage.

Same list as always:

  • AA
  • Secondaries
  • Main batteries
  • Turret barbettes (outside the ship)
  • Fully saturated areas
  • Spaced armour
  • Citadel hits (citadels give citadel ribbon + pen ribbon)

 

Nothing to do with the ship you're playing, it's mostly RNG and the ship you're firing at

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×