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Praevasc

Make tier 4 great again!

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Lately every single event, special task, challenge, daily mission, etc. is available only to tier 5 ships or above.

 

I understand that they don't want to make them available to complete newcomers, and they don't want to overwhelm complete newcomers with too many choices and features all at once.

 

But this makes tier 4 unpopular, and it incentivizes players who barely unlocked a few ships above tier 4, to play tier5+ instead of staying longer at tier 4. Also, I actually like quite a few tier 4 ships but I find participation of average-to-good players lacking.

 

How could we make tier 4 great again?

 

Tier 1 is too bland, it lacks diversity

Tiers 2 and 3 are still full of players who lack even the slightest understanding of core game mechanics.

Tier 5 often has battles featuring tier 7 ships, some of those tier 7 players are super unicums, while others play a premium ship without having played any ships between tiers 2-6, so they are often complete potatoes. In such battles, tier 5 ships are completely at the mercy of the matchmaking.

 

I would gladly play more battles at tier 4, but I miss out on the challenges and daily missions. Tier 4 is nice as it already has all ship classes, the choices are more varied, national differences become significant enough to influence strategy, but the special quirks are still not too overwhelming.

 

Especially with some attractive new tier 4 ships having been announced, it would be nice to attract more regular players to this tier.

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But T4 sees T6 ships, if you cant cope with T7 ships on your T5s, what makes you think you will be able to enjoy it at T4 vs T6?

 

It boils down to having fun, if you enjoy T4, play it, dont come and moan lower tier ships dont go to events, they are not meant to...

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1 minute ago, Juanx said:

But T4 sees T6 ships, if you cant cope with T7 ships on your T5s, what makes you think you will be able to enjoy it at T4 vs T6?

 

It boils down to having fun, if you enjoy T4, play it, dont come and moan lower tier ships dont go to events, they are not meant to...

I'm not saying I can't cope. I'm quite comfortable and successful at tier 5.

And I'm not moaning, I'm just interested in discussing some possibilities.

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Alpha Tester
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Tier 4 has limited matchmaking though and thus they won't meet tier 6 ships.

 

Having said that, I doubt that WG want to promote seal clubbing with Clemson, Nicolai, Iwaki Alpha, etc..

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8 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Having said that, I doubt that WG want to promote seal clubbing with Clemson, Nicolai, Iwaki Alpha, etc..

lol - just lol...

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1 minute ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

lol - just lol...

 

Oh? Where's the profit in scaring away relatively new players with "organised" seal clubbing?

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I'd be surprised if we see much more lower tier love (as it were) than the recent sprint seasons.

 

Besides the inevitable seal-clubbing issue, WG want us to play more high tier games, as that's what tends to generate their income - even a potato like me can probably play T4 in perpetuity without paying a penny to WG, and that's the problem.

 

On the up-side, if the carnage that results from the snowflake thing isn't completely unseemly, we might get an occasional low tier muck about very, very occasionally...

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7 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

 

Oh? Where's the profit in scaring away relatively new players with "organised" seal clubbing?

Survival of the fittest... natural selection at work...

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Why would seal-clubbing be much more of a problem? I would say seal-clubbing is a bigger problem right NOW, because if only one single highly skilled player enters a low-tier battle, he can completely dominate it (especially with a DD).

If there were more of them, they would cancel each other out, because there would be plenty of them for both teams.

 

And how would having a high variety of skill levels at low tier be worse than current tier 8 gameplay, where a division full of Tirpitzes, driven by players with less than 50 battles, can completely doom their team? At tier 4 the differences between the ships are not that great and the quirks not that special, compared to tier 7-8 and above (where one wrongly timed turn sends you instantly back to port).

 

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34 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

At tier 4 the differences between the ships are not that great and the quirks not that special, compared to tier 7-8 and above (where one wrongly timed turn sends you instantly back to port).

 

Ok, we get it now, you want a easier game mode? You are asking for being able to mess up without consecuences more often right? It says so right there.

 

No, you have the lower tiers for training, then you go play the real game at higher tier where you will be punished for going about at the wrong moment.

 

But I will agree on the idea of having more to do with lower tier ships. I do play them whenever I feel like it, as it should be...

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1 minute ago, Juanx said:

Ok, we get it now, you want a easier game mode?

Just stop quoting me out of context, ok? Or at least read the sentence sitting right before what you quoted. I just replied to the issue about seal clubbing, and listed arguments why seal clubbing wouldn't be such big of an issue.

Just where in anything I've written did I say that I want some game mode being made easier??

 

4 minutes ago, Juanx said:

then you go play the real game at higher tier

This way of thinking is exactly what drives many unskilled players to buy high tier ships, thinking that the final goal of the game is to reach tier 10, instead of just enjoying the game at the tiers they are the most comfortable at.

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40 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

Why would seal-clubbing be much more of a problem?

At the moment, I believe seal-clubbers are relatively rare (I may be wrong though), and there is a limit to how much damage a single player can do - at least quickly - and they can only do it in one area of the map at once.

 

If you encourage a lot of better players (or even average ones) to play more at lower tiers, the inexperienced players will most likely face at least one of them wherever they are on the map.

 

Net effect (I think): a newbie will get tonked every battle if there are multiple experienced players around, as opposed to some battles as presently.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

Just stop quoting me out of context, ok? Or at least read the sentence sitting right before what you quoted. I just replied to the issue about seal clubbing, and listed arguments why seal clubbing wouldn't be such big of an issue.

Just where in anything I've written did I say that I want some game mode being made easier??

 

This way of thinking is exactly what drives many unskilled players to buy high tier ships, thinking that the final goal of the game is to reach tier 10, instead of just enjoying the game at the tiers they are the most comfortable at.

 

Erm, the quoted sentence stands on itself, that is why you punctuated it as a sepparate entity right? Point stands the same.

 

Its no one elses problem but the players if they ignore how progression games work, if you think getting a high tier ship without the skil to use it is a good plan, you truly deserve to lose that money...

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1 minute ago, Verblonde said:

At the moment, I believe seal-clubbers are relatively rare (I may be wrong though), and there is a limit to how much damage a single player can do - at least quickly - and they can only do it in one area of the map at once.

 

If you encourage a lot of better players (or even average ones) to play more at lower tiers, the inexperienced players will most likely face at least one of them wherever they are on the map.

 

Net effect (I think): a newbie will get tonked every battle if there are multiple experienced players around, as opposed to some battles as presently.

 

 

 

Valid points.

 

Still, there can be countermeasures for them. Firstly, there is already a protected matchmaking for service record levels. Secondly, just as a newbie can get killed quickly by a pro, so can that same newbie get onto the same side as the pro, winning the battle. Sill, at low tier it's more difficult to insta-kill, so newbies would still have higher survival rates there than at higher tiers.

 

I know that stat-based matchmaking won't be a good idea (everyone would tend to gravitate towards 50% winrate), but there are other possibilities, like the aforementioned service level, or number of battles, etc.

 

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11 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

Erm, the quoted sentence stands on itself, that is why you punctuated it as a sepparate entity right? Point stands the same. 

 

Its no one elses problem but the players if they ignore how progression games work, if you think getting a high tier ship without the skil to use it is a good plan, you truly deserve to lose that money...

 

Do you have any arguments besides what you assume I am thinking? Neither did I complain about any difficulty, nor did I ever try to bribe myself to high tiers.

Just so even you can understand it: someone raised the problem of seal-clubbing, and to this I voiced my opinion that there are many low-skilled players playing high tier, where they are mopped up much quicker than at low tiers, where they can survive longer even while making mistakes. Nowhere did I "moan" about disliking being defeated at high tiers if I make mistakes, and nowhere did I even talk about my own playstyle.

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2 minutes ago, Praevasc said:

 

Do you have any arguments besides what you assume I am thinking? Neither did I complain about any difficulty, nor did I ever try to bribe myself to high tiers.

Jut so even you can understand it: someone raised the problem of seal-clubbing, and to this I voiced my opinion that there are many low-skilled players playing high tier, where they are mopped up much quicker than at low tiers, where they can survive longer even while making mistakes. Nowhere did I "moan" about disliking being defeated at high tiers if I make mistakes, and nowhere did I even talk about my own playstyle.

 

You made your points pretty clear on the OP, but you dont seem to be able to argue them, odd...

 

All you are doing now is telling us: well maybe theres more that can be done with lower tier ships, and most here already answered there is, play them if you want to.

 

If you want to argue, try adressing your points, I dont have any issue with lower tier ships, I play them whenever I fell like it, my clemson knows...

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2 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

You made your points pretty clear on the OP, but you dont seem to be able to argue them, odd...

 

All you are doing now is telling us: well maybe theres more that can be done with lower tier ships, and most here already answered there is, play them if you want to.

 

If you want to argue, try adressing your points, I dont have any issue with lower tier ships, I play them whenever I fell like it, my clemson knows...

To sum it up, my main question was how to make them more popular.

My secondary point was, that with all interesting things like missions, daily tasks, etc. limited to tier 5+, one can miss out on lots of flags and other rewards by playing tier 4.

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1 hour ago, Praevasc said:

Tier 1 is too bland, it lacks diversity

Tiers 2 and 3 are still full of players who lack even the slightest understanding of core game mechanics.

Tier 5 often has battles featuring tier 7 ships, some of those tier 7 players are super unicums, while others play a premium ship without having played any ships between tiers 2-6, so they are often complete potatoes. In such battles, tier 5 ships are completely at the mercy of the matchmaking. 

Don't you see? All these missions are for t5+ AND t5 is the tier at which you're taken out of the kiddie pool of protected max +1 MM. This isn't a complete coincidence. Tiers 1-4 are introductory, that's why they have maximum +1 MM (which makes them more comfortable to play) but also why you find yourself missing on the adult joys of completing the missions.

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I was going to say more or less what @eliastion said, but obviously he beat me to it – experienced players shouldn't be able to farm missions in protected MM.

 

I do think an argument could be made for allowing players with, say, less than 500 (or however many) random battles to complete missions in tiers 2-4, to avoid encouraging people to spend more time learning the game there. Although as @Verblonde rightly points out, that goes against the monetisation model somewhat. It would be nice, but not the most urgent thing by any means and I'm not going to hold my breath.

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4 hours ago, Praevasc said:

Especially with some attractive new tier 4 ships having been announced, it would be nice to attract more regular players to this tier.

Well, I still have my beloved Kuma there. (it was love at first sight and my first) and time to time I sail with it.

New attractive t4 ships? such as...?

 

By the way

Tachibana Lima it's an extreme fun ship, yes, it's t2 but I like it very much.

WG said in the past that was planning to release more Lima ships.

 

Any news about that @MrConway?

Kuma Lima would be nice :)

 

 

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1 hour ago, 10ThousandThings said:

I was going to say more or less what @eliastion said, but obviously he beat me to it – experienced players shouldn't be able to farm missions in protected MM.

Let's see how fun the lower tiers will be with all snowflake grinding they are introducing tomorrow. Then we will se if we get any better games in the lower tiers with more experienced players playing all across the board.

 

I myself  will probably rebuy all low tiers and farm coal in quick COOP-games instead, but that's just me. 

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Well, I understand th seal cluubing argument on the one hand, but on the other hand they gave a lot of reward ships on tier 2-4:

- Iwaki Alpha

- Arkansas Beta

This are ships the gave to "veteran players", but because of limitations fof missions and low credit income they are pretty useless.

And all the low tier ships as rewards for missions:

- Dreadnought

- Varjag

- Emden

- ...

There are some nice ships (playstyle and history), but you play them once in a moth because it is pretty useless in terms of missions, progress or credit income.

 

So i would really like some love for the low tier ships.

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11 hours ago, Juanx said:

But T4 sees T6 ships, if you cant cope with T7 ships on your T5s, what makes you think you will be able to enjoy it at T4 vs T6?

 

It boils down to having fun, if you enjoy T4, play it, dont come and moan lower tier ships dont go to events, they are not meant to...

 

Tier 4 gets +1 MM so they never see tier 6. That's probably why it feels underpopulated.

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12 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

Well, I still have my beloved Kuma there. (it was love at first sight and my first) and time to time I sail with it.

New attractive t4 ships? such as...?

 

By the way

Tachibana Lima it's an extreme fun ship, yes, it's t2 but I like it very much.

WG said in the past that was planning to release more Lima ships.

 

Any news about that @MrConway?

Kuma Lima would be nice :)

 

 

 

This was referencing the other Lima ships that were already made.

 

There should be:

  • Diana Lima
  • Tachibana Lima
  • Marblehead Lima

 

I think it is unlikely we will be making any more at this point.

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