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VeryHonarbrah

Stalin, Stalin Stalin (CB discussion)

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Why are they playing them? Either because those guns or because potatoes piss their pearly pink panties and give up the second they see them.

 

Can they be countered? Easily, as long as you have at least 1 working braincell and your clan uses voice coms instead of playing like 7 randoms.

 

Was this thread needed? No, go post in one of the other Stalingrad threads we get LITERALLY EVERY CB EVENING.

 

1 hour ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

In every single top 24 EU clans only 1 runs ONLY 1 Stalin, with all others running more!

Hahahahaha.

 

ADRIA at the time of me writing this is listed as #18 on EU, and most of the time we play with exactly 0 Stalingrads despite more than enough people owning them. And we're far from being the only ones, we come across plenty of Typhoon rated clans who haven't picked a Stalingrad in their lineup.

 

Kinda screws up your point of "omg everyone at high ranks always plays them", hmm?

 

1 hour ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

broken bow

At least 2/3 if not more of it is 25mm. Only the very bottom of it is 50. Problem with it?

 

1 hour ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

USN AP angles

Nope. Stalingrad has slightly improved angles, but not to US / RN level. Also US CAs get better normalization than Stalingrad does helping them get that pen instead of a bounce

 

1 hour ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

BB pen

Again, false.

While her AP pen is superior to cruisers, she lags far behind BBs, especially when it comes to horizontal (deck) penetration.

 

The only BB comparable is the Burgogne who has worse vertical armour pen up to 13.5km, and worse horizontal armour pen up to 4.5km. But that's the extra small caliber of 380s on a t10 BB

 

1 hour ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

select few who got to high enough CB levels early on

Don't worry, over this Christmas WG have decided to give steel to everyone so you'll be able to fail in your Stalingrad soon enough

 

1 hour ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

this ship has completely replaced the Moskva

Then why is Moskva still being played even by the top clans who clearly own Stalingrads?

 

1 hour ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

not a single of the previously mentioned top 24 clans using a single bloody Moskva

Except, of course, every time they do. Not that you'd know by playing in Gale :cap_tea:

 

1 hour ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

but is completely outclassed in its playing field by the Stalin

Except, of course, that Moskva is a smaller target, has better armour due to natural angling of it, and is far more maneuverable. All things at which Stalingrad suffers a lot

 

1 hour ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

ban them straight up from comp

You see, if those players who play Stalingrad played other ships... you'd still lose to them. That kinda comes with them being gud, which is why they earned a Stalingrad in the 1st place.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Why are they playing them? Either because those guns or because potatoes piss their pearly pink panties and give up the second they see them.

 

Can they be countered? Easily, as long as you have at least 1 working braincell and your clan uses voice coms instead of playing like 7 randoms.

 

Was this thread needed? No, go post in one of the other Stalingrad threads we get LITERALLY EVERY CB EVENING.

 

Hahahahaha.

 

ADRIA at the time of me writing this is listed as #18 on EU, and most of the time we play with exactly 0 Stalingrads despite more than enough people owning them. And we're far from being the only ones, we come across plenty of Typhoon rated clans who haven't picked a Stalingrad in their lineup.

 

Kinda screws up your point of "omg everyone at high ranks always plays them", hmm?

 

At least 2/3 if not more of it is 25mm. Only the very bottom of it is 50. Problem with it?

 

Nope. Stalingrad has slightly improved angles, but not to US / RN level. Also US CAs get better normalization than Stalingrad does helping them get that pen instead of a bounce

 

Again, false.

While her AP pen is superior to cruisers, she lags far behind BBs, especially when it comes to horizontal (deck) penetration.

 

The only BB comparable is the Burgogne who has worse vertical armour pen up to 13.5km, and worse horizontal armour pen up to 4.5km. But that's the extra small caliber of 380s on a t10 BB

 

Don't worry, over this Christmas WG have decided to give steel to everyone so you'll be able to fail in your Stalingrad soon enough

 

Then why is Moskva still being played even by the top clans who clearly own Stalingrads?

 

Except, of course, every time they do. Not that you'd know by playing in Gale :cap_tea:

 

Except, of course, that Moskva is a smaller target, has better armour due to natural angling of it, and is far more maneuverable. All things at which Stalingrad suffers a lot

 

You see, if those players who play Stalingrad played other ships... you'd still lose to them. That kinda comes with them being gud, which is why they earned a Stalingrad in the 1st place.

 

 

So your 1 clan, that 'most of the time' doesn't use stalingrads and all the others do...… If its so easy to counter, why do so many of the top clans play with multiple of them.  1/3 of the bottom of the bow does make a large difference for frontal cits at close - mid range. The ap angles are still completely not needed and on the ap pen, its about 40mm lower than the monty across all ranges, 20mm lower than 406 curry at all ranges, with close ranges being even less. around 50mm less than 420 curry, so I would defiantly call it bb ap. Fair enough with the steel after xmas, at least it will give less experienced clans higher chances, since we all will now have the same roster of ships. No one is playing mosvka….. Sure been in gale 1 with both teams for about 2 weeks now, facing Storm and typhone every game due to mm, but this isn't about my clan, the argument is that if your trying to be an emerging team, your chances are greatly reduced due to not having stalins because they have not competed in the last seasons at a higher enough level. 'Playing field' referes to the bow in holding, long range memes with the Moskva. Its not like we dont beat teams with stalins, we do, and we have quite a bit, but because they do have said ships we are facing an up hill battle, since they have this second or 3 rd ship that has the guns of ap. All this talking of getting gud and your 1.5k pr, smh. 

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[L4GG]
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Just some quick questions.

Moskva received some buffs, right? 50 mm

it stills remain the "battleship" Moskva, right?

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You know what i hate 10 times more than Stalingrads in CB?

Stinking 2-3 Zaos.

Stalingrad is actually quite easy to work against imo. I can farm it like no business in Hindenburg. But put a Zao on the flank? Its like Butt*ex that never ends.

- You push a tiny bit too far and have to turn around? GL being permaspotted (compared to Stalin which everyone can outspot)

- At that moment you can push further, which will make you get punished by crossfire - doesnt have to be a Stalin tho. In the end it will only make life even harder if you dont turn immediately.

- Either way you will receive probably like  >10k HE damage. GL if its shooting AP, then can be probably be like 20k.

- If you push, he will throw its nice 12km torps at you

 

Summarize that:

- Very good Concealment, only beaten by Mino and DDs. (ONLY ever can be punished if you can surprise the Zao)

- Troll armor which makes above point invalid most of the time.

- 12km torps

- Railguns with super dispersion

- Super hard hitting HE and AP

 

forgot something? Maybe :Smile_teethhappy:

"Concealment dictates engagement" very true... thats why i hate Zao.

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3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

You know what i hate 10 times more than Stalingrads in CB?

Stinking 2-3 Zaos.

Stalingrad is actually quite easy to work against imo. I can farm it like no business in Hindenburg. But put a Zao on the flank? Its like Butt*ex that never ends.

- You push a tiny bit too far and have to turn around? GL being permaspotted (compared to Stalin which everyone can outspot)

- At that moment you can push further, which will make you get punished by crossfire - doesnt have to be a Stalin tho. In the end it will only make life even harder if you dont turn immediately.

- Either way you will receive probably like  >10k HE damage. GL if its shooting AP, then can be probably be like 20k.

- If you push, he will throw its nice 12km torps at you

 

Summarize that:

- Very good Concealment, only beaten by Mino and DDs. (ONLY ever can be punished if you can surprise the Zao)

- Troll armor which makes above point invalid most of the time.

- 12km torps

- Railguns with super dispersion

- Super hard hitting HE and AP

 

forgot something? Maybe :Smile_teethhappy:

"Concealment dictates engagement" very true... thats why i hate Zao.

Double DD setups are your friend vs Zaos.

Unfortunately with Stalins making up such a large portion of the meta there simply is no set up which is flexible enough to counter every strategy these days. Need 2 DD's for anti-Zao/push strats, need Henri's for anti Stalin (Hindy is not competitive at the high end of gameplay, too slow and easily citpenned by most other CA's at range.) Worcs are still very viable so need something to counter those, Harugumo can work if she's not facing a DD that outspots her on her flank etc. 

There's simply too much to ever possibly work at countering before you hit the battle button now, so whatever works for some clans will inevitably fail on occasion. Not much sense worrying about it. 

 

More on-topic. Regardless of anyone's opinion on Stalin, she's here to stay so we will have to get used to dealing with her. The most annoying one was a Stalin we encountered last session, we worked out that we did almost 140,000 damage to her before she finally sunk, and while we did win (by pushing her away from caps so our DD's could get them) we felt that the fact that she took that much in a 'cruiser' was...somewhat dirty. 

 

Also @OP

I'm disappointed Scrubs were not in that table, we only usually run one Stalin and sometimes none at all and were in top ten for the last week and 7th at the time of your post (I think? Might have been a tad lower. We're still top 15 I think, had a rough day!) Anyway remember to include us poor windowlickers next time, kappa. 

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Well soon after the Christmas patch everyone that says Stalingrad is OP gets to play it. We will see how soon the forums will be flooded that it deserves a buff.

 

HE spamming teams if you are in a Stalingrad is just no fun.

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I don’t have a stalingrad and neither does anyone I know but I don’t begrudge any of the players who have earned it.

 

Is it OP? Sure. Can it be countered? With some effort, yes. Does that require teamplay? Yes. 

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Stalin can be nasty but it takes accellerated american and deeply submerged american sorry taivanese (ups chinese?) torpedoes quite nicely :Smile_trollface:

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Zao?

 

It's a solid ship, but very predicable.

 

They flank, turn to get torps off then go invis again. Trouble is whilst they are doing all this they EAT broadsides. The Grad stays nose on throughout the whole game and hardly has to move until he starts to push, straight. 

 

The Zao has completely replaced the Hindy IMHO in camping/kiting teams, but i would put the Des (DPM, Radar) and Defo the Grad (OP/Tanky/ hard hitting guns) above the Zao.  Even the Hindy when a push is required. So i depends on what your plan is.  Horses for courses.

 

Alot of Zao players panic when they get spotted.  They don't like to stay bow-on to things and try to get out of dodge. 

 

Strong ship but very beatable. 

 

 

 

  

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29 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

Zao?

 

It's a solid ship, but very predicable.

 

They flank, turn to get torps off then go invis again. Trouble is whilst they are doing all this they EAT broadsides. The Grad stays nose on throughout the whole game and hardly has to move until he starts to push, straight. 

 

The Zao has completely replaced the Hindy IMHO in camping/kiting teams, but i would put the Des (DPM, Radar) and Defo the Grad (OP/Tanky/ hard hitting guns) above the Zao.  Even the Hindy when a push is required. So i depends on what your plan is.  Horses for courses.

 

Alot of Zao players panic when they get spotted.  They don't like to stay bow-on to things and try to get out of dodge. 

 

Strong ship but very beatable. 

 

 

 

  

You obviously haven't faced any good zao players then

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10 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

You obviously haven't faced any good zao players then

In the same Storm are you mate and seen my fair share :Smile_honoring: take it your a Zao player then? :Smile_veryhappy:

 

It's a very good ship don't get me wrong and we use 2 most of the time.  But like most ships in clans, they are predictable.

 

They flank which is great IF they get the edge and actually flank.  If they don't and it turns into a stand off or even a push, they don't do that well compered to most.  Those torp arcs are awful when being used offensively. 

 

I would rather be flanked by a Zao than say a Henri to be brutally honest.

 

But it's a fantastic ship, but still beatable. If a Zao gets caught by a Grad for instance whilst kiting then it's a lot of heath gone.  Your more inclined to bow-on in a Des or Mosky for instance, minimising the AP damage somewhat.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Redcap375 said:

In the same Storm are you mate and seen my fair share :Smile_honoring: take it your a Zao player then? :Smile_veryhappy:

 

It's a very good ship don't get me wrong and we use 2 most of the time.  But like most ships in clans, they are predictable.

 

They flank which is great IF they get the edge and actually flank.  If they don't and it turns into a stand off or even a push, they don't do that well compered to most.  Those torp arcs are awful when being used offensively. 

 

I would rather be flanked by a Zao than say a Henri to be brutally honest.

 

But it's a fantastic ship, but still beatable. If a Zao gets caught by a Grad for instance whilst kiting then it's a lot of heath gone. 

 

 

I play anything and everything. And your point about a zao taking a lot of damage from a stalin whilst kiting. A good zao would never engage unless it knew it could mitigate as much damage as possible. Also if the zao knows that the enemy dd is not on his side of the map that gives it free reign to go u spotted at willl getting into dangerous positions for enemy pushes. An Henri cannot really do anything without the enemy knowing so they can reposition accordingly. Yes the zao is not that good for pushing but that's not the point of the ship. You play ships to their strengths in cb. 

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22 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

I play anything and everything. And your point about a zao taking a lot of damage from a stalin whilst kiting. A good zao would never engage unless it knew it could mitigate as much damage as possible. Also if the zao knows that the enemy dd is not on his side of the map that gives it free reign to go u spotted at willl getting into dangerous positions for enemy pushes. An Henri cannot really do anything without the enemy knowing so they can reposition accordingly. Yes the zao is not that good for pushing but that's not the point of the ship. You play ships to their strengths in cb. 

 

Bit like me, whatever is required i go in (Because i'm a redundant CV player :Smile_sad:) but normally find myself in either the Des or Hindy depending on what we fancy doing. 

 

And you play to your strengths, NOT the enemy like you rightly said. A Zao needs to flank to really get suck in.  You mitigate that by anchoring a Des/Moskva/Grad in front of it with radar.

 

The point of that ship is to kite and flank.  If it cant do either because 1) you HAVE to push a cap eventally 2) your kiting ships that arnt going to take the bait. 

 

Kiting doesn't win games like you know.

 

Plus seeing a Zao in the team means less radar for the DD to worry about.

 

It's a team game and all have to play well to get the most out of our ships. The Zao like all other ship are just the same. 

 

But it's a great Clan ship. Funny how the recent buffs to it have placed this quite high now. Looking forward to getting mine.

 

 

 

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Oh, had some really fun games at the moment in our weekend "sail whilst drinking Saturday" :cap_horn::cap_tea::cap_haloween:

 

No DD's just shock tactics. Quite surprised with the results 10 wins, 3 looses. 

 

Gives alot of the more casual players so-to-speak a go in clans and have a laugh. Breaks the ice and puts some fun back into a camping static gun line like the rest (observation, not criticism).

 

Nothing more satisfactory then placing torps into the side of a Grad.

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16 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

Bit like me, whatever is required i go in (Because i'm a redundant CV player :Smile_sad:) but normally find myself in either the Des or Hindy depending on what we fancy doing. 

 

And you play to your strengths, NOT the enemy like you rightly said. A Zao needs to flank to really get suck in.  You mitigate that by anchoring a Des/Moskva/Grad in front of it with radar.

 

The point of that ship is to kite and flank.  If it cant do either because 1) you HAVE to push a cap eventally 2) your kiting ships that arnt going to take the bait. 

 

Kiting doesn't win games like you know.

 

Plus seeing a Zao in the team means less radar for the DD to worry about.

 

It's a team game and all have to play well to get the most out of our ships. The Zao like all other ship are just the same. 

 

But it's a great Clan ship. Funny how the recent buffs to it have placed this quite high now. Looking forward to getting mine.

 

 

 

Get a bit more creative. Zao's are perfectly able to push. In Storm league there are plenty teams that go bow in on the quick flank with their cruiser. 
Let the DD or Minotaur spot for the Zao on the quick flank and you can remove 15k+ with a single salvo. Against the better teams you will see that they reverse their cruisers to spot ships, when they miss the concealment advantage.

Kiting does make you win games, otherwise it is called a lemming train...

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13 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Get a bit more creative. Zao's are perfectly able to push. In Storm league there are plenty teams that go bow in on the quick flank with their cruiser. 
Let the DD or Minotaur spot for the Zao on the quick flank and you can remove 15k+ with a single salvo. Against the better teams you will see that they reverse their cruisers to spot ships, when they miss the concealment advantage.

Kiting does make you win games, otherwise it is called a lemming train...

 

So you either kite or lemming train? Broaden that horizon, you know better than that.

 

It's all about positioning and reacting.  Kite all you want, but if you don't hold 2 caps, your getting nowhere kiting.  Lemming train and you get kited all-day long and flanked. 

 

And radar stops silly things like DD+Mino+Zao, just like when they do it with Woster+DD at the contesting Cap.  Nothing changes.

 

Anyway, we are all in the same place with different tactics so if it works for you, GJ.

 

If we didn't all do things a bit differently it would get boring very fast. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

So you either kite or lemming train? Broaden that horizon, you know better than that.

 

It's all about positioning and reacting.  Kite all you want, but if you don't hold 2 caps, your getting nowhere kiting.  Lemming train and you get kited all-day long and flanked. 

 

And radar stops silly things like DD+Mino+Zao, just like when they do it with Woster+DD at the contesting Cap.  Nothing changes.

 

Anyway, we are all in the same place with different tactics so if it works for you, GJ.

 

If we didn't all do things a bit differently it would get boring very fast. 

 

 

Well in that case I misunderstood you. What I meant is that by kiting you can slow down a push till reinforcements arrive, or when being successful drained so much HP that they can't push anymore. Which makes you able to hold the 2nd cap. 
TBF I have never encountered a DM on the quick flank, but well I am new at this. A DM is also the last ship that makes me sweat when I play a Zao, but well if it works out for you guys be at it. True that.

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No worries.

 

Your in a very good Clan that trains and practises alot. We are a semi competitive clan :Smile_veryhappy: and like you guys i'm sure, enjoys a laugh.  

 

OP used to have 2 of our players, L_O_K_I and Jibber until they move to Company Gamers.  Both are in our front line up (LOKI is a very very good Mino player too).

 

PS. Say hi to FragTalentz for me, hes a good lad and understand why he left.

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11 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Again, false.

While her AP pen is superior to cruisers, she lags far behind BBs, especially when it comes to horizontal (deck) penetration.

Deck penetration in this game is a myth, unless you overmatch it or fire from 20km+ to stop ricocheting off it.

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13 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

While her AP pen is superior to cruisers, she lags far behind BBs, especially when it comes to horizontal (deck) penetration.

 

The only BB comparable is the Burgogne who has worse vertical armour pen up to 13.5km, and worse horizontal armour pen up to 4.5km. But that's the extra small caliber of 380s on a t10 BB

 

There is no T10 BB with special ricochet angles, also as a reminder:

0-30 degrees --> auto ricochet

30-45 degrees --> chance to ricochet

45-90 degrees --> ricochet doesn't occur.

 

Range treshold for T10 BB shells to have a 30 degree or higher impact angle:

Yamato --> 25km

Republique --> 26.3km

Montana --> 23.1km

Großer Kurfürst (420) --> 25.7km

Conqueror (419) --> 26km

 

Saying that Stalingrads pen values are lagging far behind the BBs is wrong, also I would dare to say that the extra pen the T10 BBs have at that range doesnt result in a significant advantage when it comes to dealing damage.

 

 

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Deck penetration in this game is a myth, unless you overmatch it or fire from 20km+ to stop ricocheting off it.

Exactly.

 

 

 

About the thread topic, yeah the Stalingrad is OP as [edited]and in a truly competitive mode she would need to be banned. But since this is WG and the majority of the forums users are fat whales who pretty much support P2W ships this shouldnt be a surprise at all. WG doesnt give a crap about balance and true competition.

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7 hours ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

Double DD setups are your friend vs Zaos.

I think we have seen 3x Zao 2x Stalin several times by now - the most horrible setup to face imo (or replace a zao with Henri).

 

7 hours ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

Unfortunately with Stalins making up such a large portion of the meta there simply is no set up which is flexible enough to counter every strategy these days. Need 2 DD's for anti-Zao/push strats, need Henri's for anti Stalin (Hindy is not competitive at the high end of gameplay, too slow and easily citpenned by most other CA's at range.) Worcs are still very viable so need something to counter those, Harugumo can work if she's not facing a DD that outspots her on her flank etc. 

There's simply too much to ever possibly work at countering before you hit the battle button now, so whatever works for some clans will inevitably fail on occasion. Not much sense worrying about it. 

Ye, thats the problem. Well, i mean, if there would be THE setup, then everyone would run it ofc :Smile_teethhappy:

But i kinda feel the same way about Hindenburg... Ofc its rather tanky, but it simply lacks a very important aspect: The AP is too crap against Stalins to punish them at any reasonable range. Tried it at ~10km almost flat broadside -> shatters. :cap_old:

 

2 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

Zao?

 

It's a solid ship, but very predicable.

 

Stalins are much more predictable imo. They pretty much sit in the same space every game. And their reload is slow, so their HE is crap. Shooting maxrange at a Stalin in a Hindi he has no chance but to move away from his position pretty much.

If he keeps shooting, he will be spotted aswell!

A Zao, once he has completed his turn, is just not reasonably punishable. If you push into them, you play by their rules. Yes, we had enemy Zaos we caught before that, and they died to 2 shots, but most of the time, you spot them, they are already angled away, even if they are slow, they will still bounce the shells. Thats probably the best part about running multi Zaos -> you cant get screwed by spawns. Its pretty much guaranteed to work in both ways. While if i play Hindi f.e. and i get the wrong spawn, it takes me quite long to move over to where i have to be, Zao is there much earlier.

And if you are NOT running double DD, and the enemy has several Zaos, you are simply screwed. If you are getting spotted, as i said earlier, you have to turn right away. And you will still eat massive damage from them. If you push them, they can stay dark as long as you make a mistake, that means getting into crossfire to angle against any other ship.

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13 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Stalins are much more predictable imo. They pretty much sit in the same space every game. And their reload is slow, so their HE is crap. Shooting maxrange at a Stalin in a Hindi he has no chance but to move away from his position pretty much.

If he keeps shooting, he will be spotted aswell!

 A Zao, once he has completed his turn, is just not reasonably punishable. If you push into them, you play by their rules. Yes, we had enemy Zaos we caught before that, and they died to 2 shots, but most of the time, you spot them, they are already angled away, even if they are slow, they will still bounce the shells. Thats probably the best part about running multi Zaos -> you cant get screwed by spawns. Its pretty much guaranteed to work in both ways. While if i play Hindi f.e. and i get the wrong spawn, it takes me quite long to move over to where i have to be, Zao is there much earlier.

And if you are NOT running double DD, and the enemy has several Zaos, you are simply screwed. If you are getting spotted, as i said earlier, you have to turn right away. And you will still eat massive damage from them. If you push them, they can stay dark as long as you make a mistake, that means getting into crossfire to angle against any other ship.

 

All ships are predicable to some degree:

 

Moskv/Grads on the easy cap giving covering fire.  Push when required.

 

Des near the cap and area denial.

 

Zao/Hindy/Henri on the Flanks.

 

Mino/Woster supporting DDs, contesting cap killer. 

 

BB's central(ish)

 

That's when you shake it all up :Smile_trollface: and do things people don't expect. It's that unexpected thing that has got us where we are at the moment. Looking at our clan stats, that is quite good for a bunch of semi "have a laugh" competitive players.

 

Catching a Zao when she is still trying to get onto the flanks in an auto bounce 4.8 sec reload Des is funny stuff. Having 4-5 radar ships in the team helps no-end. Shes fast but turns like a brick and turret traverse isn't good if she becomes the one getting ambushed. 

 

Like i said, she is a very solid ship, no doubt and anyone can sail her which is great.  She's a balanced ship which always get my vote. 

 

 

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[10GO]
Players
350 posts
9,529 battles

Well no matter what i say it will just end in total madness.

So my thoughts as someone who is not an owner of a Stalingrad and now had extensive time to learn to play arround it is that it is everything but OP.

Just like moskva she is strong in certain roles and spots and just like moskva she suffers heavy without the Support arround it. You can focus her down and hurt her heavy with a Henry a Zao or a Hindenburg.... and there is really not much that can be done by that "op" ship alone about it....

 

39 minutes ago, avenger121 said:

About the thread topic, yeah the Stalingrad is OP as [edited]and in a truly competitive mode she would need to be banned. But since this is WG and the majority of the forums users are fat whales who pretty much support P2W ships this shouldnt be a surprise at all. WG doesnt give a crap about balance and true competition.

Well KOTS had her and i don't think she will go away soon there, i really can't see much complains from there. If so show me? o.o

I think the more pressing issue is that many clans simply lack the depth to change their game. And that is individual efford. 

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