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woodcook

Stalingrad, is this the start in WOWS of what is happening in WOT

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First of all this is a World of Warships question, I have referenced WOT to initiate the discussion.

 

Quickybaby one of the most experienced players of WOT by a large margin has a very well thought out video on analysing the current decline in WOT.  My question is; Is Stalingrad the start of the same problem for WOWS that is happening in WOT?

 

Ok we don't have gold amo, but?

 

 

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Ah, I miss people with their own opinions and that did not need someone else to decide what to do for them...

 

Also, doomsayers have been predicting WoWs demise since 2016, its already old to hear.

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WOWS will be here for may years to come, sure some will come, others will leave, but i'm seeing WoWs being around in 8+ years easy. 

:Smile_Default:

Now, what the doomsday preachers will be saying, well the same old thing stuck on replay.... permanently. :Smile_glasses:

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Every online game has ups and down in the player base I can see wargaming products being around for many years to come. Maybe not the santa crates if the laws get changed on loot boxes but I dont see WOWS dying off for a long time yet.

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44 minutes ago, woodcook said:

First of all this is a World of Warships question, I have referenced WOT to initiate the discussion.

 

Quickybaby one of the most experienced players of WOT by a large margin has a very well thought out video on analysing the current decline in WOT.  My question is; Is Stalingrad the start of the same problem for WOWS that is happening in WOT?

 

Ok we don't have gold amo, but?

 

 

you know, you might get better responses if you actually were making a point and not just lazily throwing out a link and a doomsday prediction. What exactly do you think Stalingrad is the start of? Where's the connection you see to Tanks?

And yes, I've watched the QB vid.

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A year ago I might have answered differently. Then, as well as the many issues the game has, WG were treating the community very poorly and the interaction was almost nil. They seem to have picked their game up and the player base seems a rightfully happier one than it did in general.

Lots of things are wrong with wows which I believe stifle the growth, but WG are doing enough to keep many believing that they may get it right one day. Cv rework, IFHE changes,new lines announced, possible submarines at some point, all things which are going to turn the meta on its head. The task of "getting it right" doesn't seem to get closer and seems to get more and more unachievable. However I am sure there will be plenty of people along for the ride, probably including me as long as they continue to communicate the way they have been.

I think the wows team have learned enough about their customers here that gold ammo or the like would not be tolerated by many and would kill the game. I have a feeling they already know this.

 

I could be wrong but I don't forsee major growth or shrinkage of the poulation in the short term. If they do a bad job of the aforementioned changes,that could change though.

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The point is that ships like the Stalingrad that is an exceptionally strong ship (yes it does have some weaknesses but they are very few, side AP hits, IFHE on the Henry), currently behind a high skill wall, ie steel.  Now we are going to get a purchasable campaign to enable more people to get steel (Stalingrad, Bourgogne).  Is this the start of the WOT trend of out and out exceptionally strong ships only available behind pay walls?

 

I do hope not, I really enjoy this game.

 

Quikybaby analyses the decline in the second half of the video and points to a trend that OP tanks behind pay walls lead to a decrease in player population,

 

 

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3 minutes ago, woodcook said:

The point is that ships Like the Stalingrad is and exceptionally strong ship (yes it does have some weaknesses but they are very few, side AP hits, IFHE on the Henry), currently behind a high skill wall, ie steel.  Now we are going to get a purchasable campaign to enable more people to get steel (Stalingrad).  Is this the start of the WOT trend of out and out exceptionally strong ships only available behind pay walls?

 

I do hope not, I really enjoy this game.

 

 

A Hindenburg will eat a bow in Stalingrad alive. Just HE spam his superstructure and he'll melt pretty quickly.

 

The ship is available to everyone. It just takes effort in getting it. You can't buy it. Even this campaign won't net you enough to get it. And therein lies the current perception that the ship is OP: generally only the the better players have one. Players that are less prone to potatoing. Wait till the masses manage to get them, they'll quickly find out the ship aint OP and start complaining on the forums.

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I would say Atlanta is an exceptionally strong ship behind a pay wall.
Stalingrad is just an overhyped freemium by players that don't have the ship.

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26 minutes ago, woodcook said:

The point is that ships like the Stalingrad that is an exceptionally strong ship (yes it does have some weaknesses but they are very few, side AP hits, IFHE on the Henry), currently behind a high skill wall, ie steel.  Now we are going to get a purchasable campaign to enable more people to get steel (Stalingrad, Bourgogne).  Is this the start of the WOT trend of out and out exceptionally strong ships only available behind pay walls?

 

I do hope not, I really enjoy this game.

 

Quikybaby analyses the decline in the second half of the video and points to a trend that OP tanks behind pay walls lead to a decrease in player population,

 

 

a) "Stalin has nothing to do with a Pay Wall" :fish_palm:

b) "Exceptionally strong ships behind a pay wall" - Belfast, Kutuzov, Nikolai, Gremlin, T-61... and you now decide to complain about Stalingrad (also refer to point a) )? :Smile_facepalm:

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Reasons why not to play world of tanks, from a perspective of a player that stopped playing in 2015:

- Artillery

- The whole lack of Armor and abuse of gold ammo

- Lack of tactics, Just load gold and turtle... 

- Russian Bias *cries in W** T****** *

- The extremely toxic community driven by XVM

- Scouting?

- Match Making

- The Grind

- The Credit earning is absolute trash even with premium 

- Overpowered premiums with no weak-spots 

- The list goes on but i cant be bothered to think about this game anymore. It just makes me cry because of what happen to it....

 

 

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wows community is in bad shape full of people being biased towards one class of ships. wows is becoming wot? not yet my friend but we will see in the long time.

But for now wargaming have anounced that for 2019 they will fix matchmaking, decrease premium ammo damage by 30%, add more content and improve some tanks. all these are planned in wot for 2019 lest hope for a better future for wows as well.

 

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36 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

A Hindenburg will eat a bow in Stalingrad alive. Just HE spam his superstructure and he'll melt pretty quickly.

 

The ship is available to everyone. It just takes effort in getting it. You can't buy it. Even this campaign won't net you enough to get it. And therein lies the current perception that the ship is OP: generally only the the better players have one. Players that are less prone to potatoing. Wait till the masses manage to get them, they'll quickly find out the ship aint OP and start complaining on the forums.

"Quickly" is relative. I would avoid thinking that Hindenburg/Henri are somehow going to just melt this ship down. It'd be more appropriate to think they are able to slowly whittle it down, given both ships have to deal with poor HE dpm against a ship with the highest hp pool of current T10 cruisers and as you keep shooting it, saturation will set in (which is why when you have 50 mm pen, you shouldn't just shoot superstructure, but even then you'll eventually run into diminishing damage per volley). Yes, Stalingrad cannot take their shelling forever, but it has got some time before it actually dies and if it can make that time count, there's little a lone Hindenburg/Henri can do to stop it. At least in contrast to Moskva, the Stalingrad's own HE dpm is even lower, so you are less in danger of losing most of your hp in return, like in a Hindenburg vs Moskva battle. But this is far from the "eating alive" real dpm ships do vs ships that have 32 mm plating or less all over.

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3 hours ago, woodcook said:

Quickybaby one of the most experienced players of WOT by a large margin

 

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1 hour ago, woodcook said:

ships like the Stalingrad that is an exceptionally strong ship

The players who play her are exceptionally good, not that the ship is exceptionally strong.

 

Can't wait for Christmas to come this year, all that Steel WGs throwing at everyone will let enough potatoes get the ship for you to maybe finally realize that :fish_palm:

 

1 hour ago, woodcook said:

side AP hits

As well as upper 2/3 of the bow, whole stern and the massive superstructure

 

1 hour ago, woodcook said:

IFHE on the Henry

And Hindy without IFHE.

And then all cruisers HE on her bow + stern, and DDs and cruisers HE on her massive superstructure

 

1 hour ago, woodcook said:

(yes it does have some weaknesses but they are very few

Funny how you mentioned just 2. Here's a few more, still far from a complete list:

  • Nearly the same size as a GK which is the biggest BB in the game
  • Spotted from across the map even at full concealment
    • Outspotted by every ship in the game
  • Worse armour than on the Moskva due to angling of it
  • Turns like a CV
    • Turns worse than any BB in the game, not even talking about cruisers
  • 45s fires = 50% longer than on any other cruiser
    • Even at full fire reduction (equipped DCSM2, captain has BoS, mounted India Yankee signal) you still have 26s, which any other cruiser matches or even beats by equipping any one of those
  • Citadel takes up like 2/3 of her hull
  • AA (happily irrelevant in CB) is nonexistant outside of your DefAA which has 3min cooldown
    • CV can literally bait your DefAA, wait for it to run out, drop you, rearm planes, then drop you again on the same cooldown space

 

This and so much more has already been told you people again and again and again in in these Stalingrad threads, can you start listening for once?

 

1 hour ago, woodcook said:

Is this the start of the WOT trend of out and out exceptionally strong ships only available behind pay walls? 

Stalingrad can't be bought. Yeah, there will be paid campaign for Steel, but that alone won't be even close to enough.

 

Meanwhile for ships like Wooster, Harugumo, Daring - you don't have to spend a single cent to play those.

 

So, again, the answer to your question is no.

 

24 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I would avoid thinking that Hindenburg/Henri are somehow going to just melt this ship down.

And yet they do, with next to nothing the Stalingrad can do in return

 

305s can't overmatch 25 / 30 mm of armour, so all you need to do vs AP is angle. And if Stalingrad is forced to use HE, was it only the Minotaurs HE which doesn't out-dpm her? I think that was the case, yeah.

 

Meanwhile Hindy & IFHE HIV both can HE-pen Stalingrad everywhere that's not the main belt. And if you're shooting HE at someones main belt you have way more problems than just the Stalingrad on the opposite team... Of course, add to that the fact that landing shells on a target that's nearly the size of a GK isn't exactly hard and you have your answer for how it gets melted

 

28 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

they are able to slowly whittle it down

No, the "slowly wittle it down" part would go for every other CA/L hitting her bow, stern and superstructure as those areas do get saturated. Nothing slow about a HIV or Hindy, especially if there's more than 1 of them.

 

30 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

there's little a lone Hindenburg/Henri can do to stop it.

Actually there's a lot that they can do. Especially the HIV, even without using his RB. Same as for example a Wooster or Zao, which "surprisingly" enough are perfectly capable of 1v1-ing a Stalingrad. Of course, not when a potato is sailing them, but that then goes for every single possible matchup of potato vs a good player.

 

40 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

But this is far from the "eating alive" real dpm ships do vs ships that have 32 mm plating or less all over.

Funny thing really, those 32mm plating all over ships are smaller than the Stalingrad (including BBs), which means they are going to be harder to hit... Go figure

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2 hours ago, Chiledip said:

FHE changes

what IFHE changes?

 

1 hour ago, Tyrendian89 said:

b) "Exceptionally strong ships behind a pay wall" - Belfast, Kutuzov, Nikolai, Gremlin, T-61... and you now decide to complain about Stalingrad (also refer to point a) )? :Smile_facepalm:

This

 

Especially when compared to belfast, which has the stealth + tools to take out DDs with ease and is extremely game deciding like that.

While Stalingrad is an excellent Cruiserkiller in a meta where you often see only 2 or 3 cruisers...

 

The main thing I have against Stalingrad is it provides a way to go around the 1BB limit in CBs (besides the aforementioned addition of yet another anticruiser tool. Good thing the alaska is coming to finally help against the high tier cruiser invasion)

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I will actually never get the Stalingrad because I think it is a hyped ship!

 

The only thing it has going for it is the sigma value of 2.5 anything is just laughable, its squishy on the sides and eats citadels like no tomorrow, melts like butter in HE Spam. It is as delicate as a Kronshtadt but at least the Kron has a higher DPM hence why I prefer it.

 

@woodcook I can tell you right now Stalingrads are not the end of WOWS nor the beginning of it.

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1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

"Quickly" is relative. I would avoid thinking that Hindenburg/Henri are somehow going to just melt this ship down. It'd be more appropriate to think they are able to slowly whittle it down, given both ships have to deal with poor HE dpm against a ship with the highest hp pool of current T10 cruisers and as you keep shooting it, saturation will set in (which is why when you have 50 mm pen, you shouldn't just shoot superstructure, but even then you'll eventually run into diminishing damage per volley). Yes, Stalingrad cannot take their shelling forever, but it has got some time before it actually dies and if it can make that time count, there's little a lone Hindenburg/Henri can do to stop it. At least in contrast to Moskva, the Stalingrad's own HE dpm is even lower, so you are less in danger of losing most of your hp in return, like in a Hindenburg vs Moskva battle. But this is far from the "eating alive" real dpm ships do vs ships that have 32 mm plating or less all over.

ofcourse it is relative, but he will die very quickly cause his huge superstructure will take nice pen dmg every volley. And let's not forget the fires.

For the more elaborate answer, see @wilkatis_LV 's post

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1 hour ago, Saiyko said:

what IFHE changes?

From what I have heard WG want to make IFHE less of a mandatory skill. I can only infer that means that they are going to change it in some way. Here is a fairly recent thread about it.

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/108597-ifhe-getting-changed-free-skill-respec/

 

Not sure if it will happen imminently or even at all.There certainly has been quite a bit of talk about it. I'm sure others can shed much more light on this for you, I don't think that I was speaking out of turn.

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2 hours ago, Srle_Vigilante said:

Reasons why not to play world of tanks, from a perspective of a player that stopped playing in 2015:

- Artillery

- The whole lack of Armor and abuse of gold ammo

- Lack of tactics, Just load gold and turtle... 

- Russian Bias *cries in W** T****** *

- The extremely toxic community driven by XVM

- Scouting?

- Match Making

- The Grind

- The Credit earning is absolute trash even with premium 

- Overpowered premiums with no weak-spots 

- The list goes on but i cant be bothered to think about this game anymore. It just makes me cry because of what happen to it....

 

 


 Reasons I, along with my clan stopped playing WoT in 2016 (All of whom were Blue/Unicum players.)

 

1. Artillery

2. Russian [edited] physics defying  magic tanks (IS3, IS6, T22, T54, T54 Lwt.) - Stalinium + Gun depression stats being impossible, endlessly buffed because glorious Russia.

3. Huge Powercreep (Scorpion)

4. Destruction of tier 6 balance by rediculous tanks (Jap Heavies etc)

5. Tank powercreep making lots of many well balanced tanks at tier 6 completely obsolete. (FireFly)

6. Release of premiums to make up for powercreeped line tanks (Centurion Premium)

6. Matchmaker template screw up.
7. Completely broken HEAT spamming autoloaders

7. Artillery

 

 

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1 hour ago, Saiyko said:

what IFHE changes?

In the NA "anchors aweigh" (or something like that) event S_O said they want to make IFHE as a more of a tradeoff rather than the current braindead pick. Something along the lines of dropping it lower in points (making it cheaper), but also making it less effective (less pen maybe? higher impact on the fire chance? wondering what they'll do with it)

 

But all of that is not a step past "we're thinking about" as far as we're aware. Then again, for the 1st-ish patch of the year they usually do seem to go for big changes, so maybe something coming for 0.8.1?

 

1 hour ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

sigma value of 2.5

2.65 actually :Smile_trollface:

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Why have i stopped playing wot?

 

1 - switched to wows due to less poisonous co-op.

2 - Everything in WoT is now geared towards revenue. Catch WoT nowadays offering a "supply drop" or "containers".

3 - Co-op MM is so much fairer.

 

 

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I stopped playing WoT many years ago (I kept the game up-to-date for a while to buy premium time which could be used on WoWS).

 

1) Gold ammo (or credit ammo) which meant heavy tanks weren't heavy tanks any more

2) Toxic playerbase (I had too many game where a 'team mate' just shot me all game)

3) Lies by WG - the pre-order tanks which were never ever to be offered again were put on sale then withdrawn after 24 hours.   They are now available again.   Why sell something on it'x exclusivity and then ignore that.

 

I'd include the bit about changing the MM for the 'protected MM premium tanks' but I stopped playing long beforehand and I think WG understood the unhappy playerbase - but that probably just means they will do this later on.

 

 

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