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Drasnighta

Chat ban - seems pretty ridiculous

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Alright, so.

 

I'm getting very tired of the whole T8 matchmaking thing - I was uptiered in my Vanguard again to T10, for maybe the 4th time in a row in a T8 ship today. But that's not what this post is about.

 

I was feeling salty, not going to lie. Domination mode on the Trap map.

 

We had 2 destroyer divisions of 2 each, and they were both doing nothing. Like literally, one set was parked behind two islands at C while the other division completely ignored our team's intstructions to contest B and instead skirted around to A, where they did nothing. So the enemy had all 3 caps from the get go.

 

*edit

 

I said this to begin with. Then one of the division parked at C replied.

 

*edit

 

And then, once we were 800 points down (and still with no caps) I rushed B with my T8 Vanguard and promptly died.

 

I then asked the enemy team (in a polite fashion) to report our destroyer divisions for contributing nothing.

 

And then I received a chat ban until tomorrow. Was this an automatic ban triggered by the divisions reporting me?

 

I don't know, but I'm super annoyed. It seems pretty unreasonable (in my opinion) to receive an automatic ban just because a division "teamed up" on you, so to speak.

 

First chat ban I've received as well...

 

Sorry if this is a little ranty - just needed to vent a little frustration!

 

 

Edited by Rvirgo
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to naming and shaming
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But this was the thing - I barely said anything that should have resulted in one.

 

No swearing, or insults. I just pointed out that our destroyers were useless and that was really just about it.

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That is salty enough.

When you annoy people, they report you. And no, two-three people are not enough to get you a ban.

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Is there a page that explains how the karma/chat system works in that sense?

 

Because my karma dropped by 2, so I just assumed that it was the 2 reports that had triggered the ban before, as I don't usually get reported (and have never been banned before).

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My Karma dropped by more than that and I was never chat banned.

You must taken some reports before that.

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16 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

My Karma dropped by more than that and I was never chat banned.

You must taken some reports before that.

This would be my guess as well.

 

If it's only this what's mentioned in the screenshots, it would be harsh to have a day of chat ban just for this.

 

But usually there is more below the surface :Smile_hiding:

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46 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Is there a page that explains how the karma/chat system works in that sense?

 

Because my karma dropped by 2, so I just assumed that it was the 2 reports that had triggered the ban before, as I don't usually get reported (and have never been banned before).

Automatic chat bans are handed out based on a bit more "history". Two reports from a single match are nowhere enough to get you chat-banned HOWEVER just because you never received a chat ban doesn't mean you weren't reported before. If you happened to have a salty day (or week, WG for obvious reasons doesn't go too deep into details of the system), you might've accumulated some bad karma (see what I did there) and the two reports were just the straw that broke the camel's back.

As for making sure if you actually got an auto-ban, you should check the description. If it's an auto-ban, it should read "banned by complaints" or something like that (I don't remember precise phrasing). If the ban was handed out manually (you managed to motivate someone to send the replay to support AND the support decided that they should take action) the description would be different (say "insults and provocatiosn", "excessive swearing" or whatnot). In that case you won't know what it was exactly that got you banned, though - it might've been a couple days since you "earned" it.

That being said, if the ban was a 24h one, then it's almost certainly the automatic system. When they chatban someone manually, they wouldn't bother to inflict such a light punishment - you'd have gotten three days or a week at a minimum. Probably.

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I feel like the system really isn't too sensitive. 

 

There've been a few nights when I really could've used a chat ban. Would've been richly deserved. So far I've never got one.

 

Edit: yeah, like @eliastion above notes, I think the system keeps a sh*tlist of some sort. I normally behave civil and do nothing worse than lots of dad jokes. So when I have that occasional really awful night, however much my Karma tanks, I never get a chat ban.

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6 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

But usually there is more below the surface :Smile_hiding:

No, there wasn't :)

 

That was literally all it was, in those pictures.

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Vor 7 Stunden, Drasnighta sagte:

I then asked the enemy team (in a polite fashion) to report our destroyer divisions for contributing nothing.

 

And then I received a chat ban until tomorrow. Was this an automatic ban triggered by the divisions reporting me?

 

I am fairly certain I read somewhere that egging others on to report someone is considered a rule violation, though it was not in any of the official documents.

Possibly a post by WG staff on reddit or this forum.

Can't find it any more though.

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Just now, Nautical_Metaphor said:

I am fairly certain I read somewhere that egging others on to report someone is considered a rule violation, though it was not in any of the official documents.

Possibly a post by WG staff on reddit or this forum.

Really? How are you supposed to get players to say, report an afk member or if someone is visibly not helping your team/assisting the enemy?

 

There was a Cleveland in a battle recently that I took part in that parked behind an island and just pinged the map for the entire game. I'm not supposed to ask players to report this kind of behaviour?

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10 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Really? How are you supposed to get players to say, report an afk member or if someone is visibly not helping your team/assisting the enemy?

 

There was a Cleveland in a battle recently that I took part in that parked behind an island and just pinged the map for the entire game. I'm not supposed to ask players to report this kind of behaviour?

It's not difficult to imagine how a system which has to be balanced to not give out too many "false positives" doesn't want to encourage mass reporting since there is no guarantee that the reasoning behind the reports follows what WG considers unwanted behavior.

If the system can assume that one correct report results in one report and one incorrect report also results in one report, the system doesn't have to account for the possibility of huge spikes of incorrect reports. Or at the very least they will be rare enough that they can be ignored when balancing the system.

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We are continuously asking for correcting this idiotic banning for all channels, including division, friends and clan - ZERO effect. Is it really so hard to implement? @MrConway?

Are there any arguments for leaving this thing broken? How many man-hours does it take to do such a simple fix.

I get ban in random, it should only affect randoms. If I get ban in ranked, it should affect ranked. Clan, friend, division chats should never be affected. Isn't it obvious? :cap_old:

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Really. This pops up quite often and I'm getting intrigued. Trying to keep an open mind here. People who open such posts seem to be all angels in disguise. I know for a fact I'm sometimes getting salty in chat as well. Being an oxygen sucker I make that mistake. and Very often in retrospect when I cooled down I am forced to admit I overdone fulminating. And am actually ashamed of my used words. Yet I never got a chatban. Even though I feel like I deserved one after such an incident. How come I don't and other people do? I got the feeling you won't get a ban by just one moment of weakness and saltiness. My trick: when I see my karma go down after said incidents I say to myself: "yeah, you've been acting like a twit. So better tone down the next times." That did the trick so far. Until I bait myself in the next folly incident. Perhaps OP can take my advice?

At the other hand: a chatban doesn't only punish the offender. My suggestion to WG is to imply a different sanction. F.e. ban the ability to play non elite ships for an amount of time. Thus the offender cannot grind in the trees for a while. But still is able to communicate so it doesn't hamper the teams that much. Like I said: only thinking with everybody and keeping an open mind.

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As much as I don't particularly care about it, generally speaking there is no need for this system. The mute function exists after all.

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21 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

As much as I don't particularly care about it, generally speaking there is no need for this system. The mute function exists after all.

I can't help but notice that arakus negreps most of the posts i've seen you type lol.

 

On Topic: I would usually say avoid general chat but mods rarely ever mod it now. Either the report system waited for an certain amount of reports to accumilate before banning you or there was a mod (can happen but very, very rare) in game present and they might of chat banned you.

 

if you got banned for the above then they seriously need to look at their in-game chat system to prevent randoms bans etc.

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8 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Really? How are you supposed to get players to say, report an afk member or if someone is visibly not helping your team/assisting the enemy?

 

The problem when you ask the rest of the team (and maybe the enemy team) to report a player or players for whatever is that they may not have seen what you want them reported for.   Team members may not have even noticed what that player did in-game to that point.   As far as DDs go the enemy team may have had no clue where the DDs were - they could have been actively spotting but never used their guns and any torpedo salvos may have simply not been spotted.

 

I've had games in a DD when I've capped, spotted and done everything that a DD should do but at one stage escaped behind an island.   At which point one of my team mates spots me then asks the whole team team to report me because I was hiding behind an island.    Usually players who ask the other team to report a player get a report themselves.

 

This could be abused to ask people to report players who are active and contributing to the team effort.    It could be seen as bullying.and can easily be used for the wrong reason.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, BrusilovX said:

 

The problem when you ask the rest of the team (and maybe the enemy team) to report a player or players for whatever is that they may not have seen what you want them reported for.   Team members may not have even noticed what that player did in-game to that point.   As far as DDs go the enemy team may have had no clue where the DDs were - they could have been actively spotting but never used their guns and any torpedo salvos may have simply not been spotted.

 

I've had games in a DD when I've capped, spotted and done everything that a DD should do but at one stage escaped behind an island.   At which point one of my team mates spots me then asks the whole team team to report me because I was hiding behind an island.    Usually players who ask the other team to report a player get a report themselves.

 

This could be abused to ask people to report players who are active and contributing to the team effort.    It could be seen as bullying.and can easily be used for the wrong reason.

 

 

 

 

Only thing I ask my teammates for reporting is for afk, when said player is visibly not moving.

 

Often enough, they will start moving after I mention them being immobile in their spawn and all is well :Smile-_tongue:

4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

As much as I don't particularly care about it, generally speaking there is no need for this system. The mute function exists after all.

Except that it doesn't work particularly well.

 

The pinging on the map doesn't get muted regardless of which option is selected and frankly, the current system works!

Sure it won't work for players being toxic in chat but who really cares about their complaints anyway? Stop being toxic in chat, most people have never had a chat ban ever and I also have not always been the most friendly chatter ever all the time. It's not that hard.

 

If someone gets chatbanned, an advice to them may be to not say anything at all, it's not even needed for playing this game, problem solved :Smile_great:

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On 12/16/2018 at 12:05 PM, NothingButTheRain said:

The pinging on the map doesn't get muted regardless of which option is selected and frankly, the current system works!

 

Pinging doesn't get muted when chatbanned either, so I fail to see how this is relevant.

 

Regardless of how well it works, the system is obviously open to abuse and completely unnecessary in light of the other options. Particularly toxic individuals can still be reported to support which also ensured that no one gets wrongfully convicted.

 

Also reporting for afk does nothing. In fact, reporting for misbehavior in chat is the only reporting function that actually has something working behind it. Everything else is placebo as WG had stated.

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On 12/16/2018 at 3:25 AM, EdiJo said:

We are continuously asking for correcting this idiotic banning for all channels, including division, friends and clan - ZERO effect. Is it really so hard to implement? @MrConway?

Are there any arguments for leaving this thing broken? How many man-hours does it take to do such a simple fix.

I get ban in random, it should only affect randoms. If I get ban in ranked, it should affect ranked. Clan, friend, division chats should never be affected. Isn't it obvious? :cap_old:

 

What is obvious, is that you should not break our game rules, then you also won't have the issue of being banned in other channels.

 

This would take no man-hours to do at all.

 

I honestly see no benefit in developing or changing a feature that would only benefit people that get chat-banned.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

What is obvious, is that you should not break our game rules, then you also won't have the issue of being banned in other channels.

  

This would take no man-hours to do at all.

 

I honestly see no benefit in developing or changing a feature that would only benefit people that get chat-banned.

 

 

 

considered that asking a yamato why hes sitting at max range the entire match just sniping will get reported as misbehaviour in chat thats funny ... 

 

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4 hours ago, bloodynicknames said:

 

 

considered that asking a yamato why hes sitting at max range the entire match just sniping will get reported as misbehaviour in chat thats funny ... 

 

 

That is a different issue and something we definitely need to work to prevent - our new chat moderation initiative should help with that.

 

Although I do have to point out that even if a division reports you, you will not immediately be banned - more reports are definitely necessary.

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7 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

What is obvious, is that you should not break our game rules, then you also won't have the issue of being banned in other channels.

 

This would take no man-hours to do at all.

 

I honestly see no benefit in developing or changing a feature that would only benefit people that get chat-banned.

 

 

Somehow you assume that people get banned for something they did wrong. And I assume that you simply don't use chat in the first place. 

Again this is somewhat elitist approach, because the (clan-organized) elite does not rely on WG for communication at all. 

 

7 hours ago, bloodynicknames said:

 

 

considered that asking a yamato why hes sitting at max range the entire match just sniping will get reported as misbehaviour in chat thats funny ... 

 

Sure, you can get rage-reports for anything. And for nothing too. 

 

3 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

That is a different issue and something we definitely need to work to prevent - our new chat moderation initiative should help with that.

This is kinda hard to believe that WG will suddenly invest a lot into human moderation. And how exactly will we be able to report being wrongly reported? 1) we usually don't even get a notification 2) if by the ticket, it'd be a bit unequally tiresome.

 

Quote

 

Although I do have to point out that even if a division reports you, you will not immediately be banned - more reports are definitely necessary.

Again you assume that previous reports somehow were justified. What makes you so sure?

 

I don't want to pretend I am a polite angel, I don't like to sit quiet when a potato ruins my game and I don't select the wording much, so it is not about me. Although I tend to be whiny in chat often from the start, usually about sh**y matchmaking - that for sure adds me points from some "fragiles".

Still, there are multiple proofs cited even on this forum when one gets reported by simply trying to communicate, to play the team game. 

Sorry, reaching a consensus often requires a discussion, disagreements and comparing arguments and I don't think any triggered snowflake should have right to ban me from talking to my friends in the whole game - automatically, without any moderation involved. 

 

As far as I know, anonymous crowd punishments went out of use after medieval times, now we have courts which have to work according to some rules. Current "reporting system" is useless, and would have to be replaced, not augmented, by human moderation.

 

 

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