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10ThousandThings

Question about German DD shells

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Hi everyone.

 

I've decided to add German DDs to the lines that I'm actively grinding – as opposed to the many that are just there for when I need a change. I seem to remember hearing that – in contrast to the German CAs – the DDs' HE is pretty anaemic for the class, but on a decent target the AP can do significant damage thanks (in part?) to a shorter fuse time. First of all, please do correct my if I've misunderstood something there. Second, I wondered if anyone could tell me if that's the case through the whole line, and if not, where does it start to be the case? I've tried searching the wiki on the second point, but have come up empty – possibly my fault rather than the wiki's – so figured I'd ask here.

 

Cheers :Smile_honoring:

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Pretty sure german DD AP has the same 0.01 shell fuze as other DDs. You're still going to overpen most slim build DDs, but once they angle a bit (but not enough to bounce, obviously) or against the bigger DDs (like Gearing) the AP can deal some serious hurt.

 

The AP is also really nasty against any other broadside. Cruiser or battleship giving you a side to farm? 3-4k per volley no problem, even more on the tier VI and VIII with their 150mm guns (though obviously at a slower rate of fire, but the tier VI in particular is fun to citadel cruisers with).

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1 minute ago, Aotearas said:

Pretty sure german DD AP has the same 0.01 shell fuze as other DDs. You're still going to overpen most slim build DDs, but once they angle a bit (but not enough to bounce, obviously) or against the bigger DDs (like Gearing) the AP can deal some serious hurt.

 

The AP is also really nasty against any other broadside. Cruiser or batleship giving you a side to farm? 3-4k per volley no problem.

Okay, thanks for that. So still the same drill of mostly HE, except in the cases you mention?

 

Also a note to myself to switch to AP more often to farm broadside superstructures and upper belts. I think the USN 127mm/38 guns have made me forget that that's a possibility, except at very close ranges where you can citadel certain CL/CAs. :fish_palm: <— at myself

 

I'd also be interested if anyone can direct me to a site where I can find specs like AP fuse time. Given that they don't seem to appear on the wiki...

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4 minutes ago, 10ThousandThings said:

I'd also be interested if anyone can direct me to a site where I can find specs like AP fuse time. Given that they don't seem to appear on the wiki...

the ever-reliable https://wowsft.com/ has you covered on that

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Z-52 has an AP damage of 3000 while most other DDs (and light cruisers) have 2100-2600ish.

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1 hour ago, 10ThousandThings said:

I seem to remember hearing that – in contrast to the German CAs – the DDs' HE is pretty anaemic for the class, but on a decent target the AP can do significant damage

What contrast? This is basically true across the board that German HE has pitiful damage and fire chance and the AP got better damage.

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1 hour ago, 10ThousandThings said:

Okay, thanks for that. So still the same drill of mostly HE, except in the cases you mention?

Thanks to the flatter arcs of the German guns you can get decent results even at 10+ km with AP, and if the target is not angling then the AP will be a more reliable damage source than HE and hoping for fires.

 

So in my experince I would say a greater mix of HE-AP is the way to go and avoid over reliance on the other like you would in let's say a US gunboat.

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46 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

What contrast? This is basically true across the board that German HE has pitiful damage and fire chance and the AP got better damage.

Well, WG could change HE pen on German derpstroyers to 1/4 for "consistency across the tree":Smile_trollface:

 

Though 15cm guns on Gaede/Zed23 could make use of that

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3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Well, WG could change HE pen on German derpstroyers to 1/4 for "consistency across the tree":Smile_trollface:

 

Though 15cm guns on Gaede/Zed23 could make use of that

12.8 cm can pen most cruisers and mid-tier BBs with that.

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Just now, Riselotte said:

12.8 cm can pen most cruisers and mid-tier BBs with that.

I know. Lols would follow.

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For german its simple why their dd sucks, that guns, both 128mm and 150mm have such a low dmg, poor he dmg really, for cruisers its ok because of 1/4 pen, so they pen a lot but do low dmg, for dd its like pen nothing and when pen do such a low dmg. Terrible guns for dds.

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1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

What contrast? This is basically true across the board that German HE has pitiful damage and fire chance and the AP got better damage.

This was me misunderstanding – I had in my head that with the 1/4 pen rule meant that CAs' HE was pretty scary, but hadn't realised about the low alpha. I stand corrected :Smile_honoring:

1 hour ago, ollonborre said:

Thanks to the flatter arcs of the German guns you can get decent results even at 10+ km with AP, and if the target is not angling then the AP will be a more reliable damage source than HE and hoping for fires.

 

So in my experince I would say a greater mix of HE-AP is the way to go and avoid over reliance on the other like you would in let's say a US gunboat.

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks :-)

 

This really is showing me the importance of 'going wide' – I'd have never grasped the full implications/complexity of all this without deciding to have a go at them myself.

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47 minutes ago, Yamato942 said:

For german its simple why their dd sucks, that guns, both 128mm and 150mm have such a low dmg, poor he dmg really, for cruisers its ok because of 1/4 pen, so they pen a lot but do low dmg, for dd its like pen nothing and when pen do such a low dmg. Terrible guns for dds.

Disagree a bit. Yes the HE in general is lackluster and the AP while the damage is great the pen is also not brilliant so angling negates your damage potential greatly.

 

However the AP is suprisingly effective against DD's and absolutely murders more thick DD's. HE while low on damage is still somewhat reliable thanks to flat arcs and decent reload so you can still stack upp damage. And at the end of the day the Germans are hybrids, with torps becoming more of a primary weapon at higher tiers. And in that context the guns are good enough.

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4 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

the ever-reliable https://wowsft.com/ has you covered on that

Ever reliable except for every single time when their information is way off.

 

Like the recent incorrect fuse time on Vanguard, or right now it still lists WVs min horizontal dispersion at value literally impossible on US BBs. You can't get 50m when your formula is Range * 10 + 60

And yes, the formula itself is correct as it fits both - base max range AND extended max range. That wouldn't happen if formula wasn't correct.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Mr_Tayto said:

Following. I'm up to tier 8 and I absolutely suck in them

 

T8 is a curious case because you're essentially forced to use the 150mm guns, since having the 128s automatically removes one gun. (front turret turns from a single 128mm into a twin 150mm )

So you use a lot more HE since larger caliber AP is less reliable than the 128s, and the HE is consequentially to the higher caliber, more reliable.

 

Not a bad ship, just an odd ship coming from the Maass.
 


Z-46 is phenomenally fun, the guns are more reliable, spammy torpedoes finally reach the 10km mark,AP shells gets a 15-20% penetration increase (10-20mm increase at varying ranges) while being faster and bleeding less velocity.
The entire branch just comes together.

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