CV rework new gameplay: what about low AA ships?

[LDPDC]

Hi!

 

I registered to be able to test the new  CV gameplay firsthand on the PTS but for some reason never got the e-mail :s I'm about to buy both Mushashi (with coal) & Kronstadt (with Fxp) before they dissapear but I fear that being low AA ships they will become port queens soon after the CV rework.

More broadly what is to be expected? Speccing into AA will come back? Ships with strong AA will become stronger? Or AA will be leveled and useless for every ships (that's what I understood from various readings)?

 

Thanks for any input!

[El2aZeR]

11 minutes ago, LDPDC said:

Or AA will be leveled and useless for every ships?

 

This.

Let me demonstrate what happened in test 2 to a Yamato:

Spoiler

 

 

And while they nerfed the bomb damage a bit in test 3 this is still easily achievable by aiming for fires instead of pure alpha strike. Also in test 3 aircraft were almost twice as fast.

No worries tho, this happens to every BB, not just the Yamato.

[Humorpalanta]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

This.

Let me demonstrate what happened in test 2 to a Yamato:

  Hide contents

 

 

And while they nerfed the bomb damage a bit in test 3 this is still easily achievable by aiming for fires instead of pure alpha strike. Also in test 3 aircraft were almost twice as fast.

No worries tho, this happens to every BB, not just the Yamato.

[Aragathor]

20 minutes ago, LDPDC said:

More broadly what is to be expected?

More or less this:

Spoiler

 

[Reaper_JackGBR]

15 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

This.

Let me demonstrate what happened in test 2 to a Yamato:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

And while they nerfed the bomb damage a bit in test 3 this is still easily achievable by aiming for fires instead of pure alpha strike. Also in test 3 aircraft were almost twice as fast.

No worries tho, this happens to every BB, not just the Yamato.

'Lord Boris, the playerbase complained that CV's are OP and do too much damage, how shall we fix this in the rework?' 

'Make it so every nub and his mother can do 300k+ damage a game Dimitri.' 

[pegon]

If this is it i will quit this game. Think about the DD's, permaspotted. I think they are breaking 3 ship classes to fix 1.

[Bear_Necessities]

6 minutes ago, pegon said:

If this is it i will quit this game. Think about the DD's, permaspotted. I think they are breaking 3 ship classes to fix 1.

Give a month after release and they'll just pull the whole line out. 

[_Bajkal]

6 minutes ago, pegon said:

If this is it i will quit this game. Think about the DD's, permaspotted. I think they are breaking 3 ship classes to fix 1.

Spec for AA?

[DariusJacek]

22 minuty temu, Geralt_z_Rivii365 napisał:

Spec for AA?

CVs easily killed BBs next to AA Woosters. Reworked CVs will only be able to farm damage, do you really think that WG will deny them even this?

[ForlornSailor]

55 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

CVs easily killed BBs next to AA Woosters. Reworked CVs will only be able to farm damage, do you really think that WG will deny them even this?

 

Yes. This is the logical conclusion. CVs after rework have no other job anymore, then to farm damage. If AA would be so strong, that it could shut down a CV (like it is now), CVs would have nothing. So it wont happen. We are all doomed, lets face it. Im enjoying my DDs right now, after the BB AP change they have the time of their life. Its like the last supper before DDs will be crucified by the CV-rework.

[Aotearas]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

This.

Let me demonstrate what happened in test 2 to a Yamato:

  Hide contents

 

 

And while they nerfed the bomb damage a bit in test 3 this is still easily achievable by aiming for fires instead of pure alpha strike. Also in test 3 aircraft were almost twice as fast.

No worries tho, this happens to every BB, not just the Yamato.

 

Sweet Jesus, I knew it was bad, but this? One of WG's keynotes was to reduce CV alpha strikes and you could still nuke a BB from full HP in one attack run on their second test iteration. I knew WG's reasons for the rework were a facade but this isn't just BS, that's flat out lying through their teeth and not having the decency to even try to cover up their insincerity.

 

 

Gotta make CVs work for the console release comrade, who cares that we make them even more polarizing than they already were ...

[Xevious_Red]

Depends what they do with the high tier.

 

With the rework:

-The tier 4 were crap and barely did any damage.

-The tier 6 were fairly weak, and the majority of their attacks could be dodged.

-The tier 8 were reasonable; you could sort of dodge them, the AA sort of did stuff if you hit it.

-The tier 10 just crapped on anything they saw, either by bombing them to death as per the above video, or from flying so fast (325kn) that the AA didnt even target them properly

[El2aZeR]

24 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

Depends what they do with the high tier.

 

Honestly I was already able to pull off amazing  with the Ranger. I think I had like 150k average damage which is more than what I have in my current Midway.

Here's a typical Ranger result of mine in test 3:

Spoiler

 

Langley too was pretty good with about 80-100k average. Only problem with low tier CVs is that they felt like a chore to play.

 

So yeah,

no one is safe.

[Reaper_JackGBR]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Honestly I was already able to pull off amazing  with the Ranger. I think I had like 150k average damage which is already more than I have in my current Midway.

Here's a typical Ranger result of mine in test 3:

  Hide contents

 

Langley too was pretty good with about 80-100k average. Only problem with low tier CVs is that they felt like a chore to play.

 

So yeah,

no one is safe.

That's disgusting. get it off my screen. 

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

That's disgusting. get it off my screen. 

 

Oh, you've seen nothing yet.

Wanna know what happens when every CV player in the match is at least decent?

 

Spoiler

 

I killed that Republique in the opening minutes of the match btw despite being a Lexington and the enemy Midway trying to protect him with fighters.

 

[Reaper_JackGBR]

Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

Oh, you've seen nothing yet.

Wanna know what happens when every CV player in the match is at least decent?

 

  Hide contents

 

I killed that Republique in the opening minutes of the match btw despite being a Lexington and the enemy Midway trying to protect him with fighters.

 

So Midway all over again with double the dakka, burnings and drownings? 

Oh yes Wargaming this sounds so incredibly engaging. 

And the best part is, at least going by my observations, the skill gap is still going to exist, as even with current CV's, knowing how to drop actually seems to be the biggest issue behind learning how to achieve Air Superiority. 

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

And the best part is, at least going by my observations, the skill gap is still going to exist

 

It has actually gotten worse because in current CVs you at least have auto drop. Since most of the playerbase too is a complete and utter potato auto drop practically guarantees some damage for potato CVs.

In the rework however I've seen two CVs struggle to kill a single 10k HP Zao. I'm not even joking. The Zao was the last ship with about 3 minutes remaining on the clock. Neither CV could hit a ing thing so he just waltzed up to them (in a straight line no less, he wasn't even maneuvering) and killed them both.

 

I wish I could make this  up.

[10ThousandThings]

6 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Oh, you've seen nothing yet.

Wanna know what happens when every CV player in the match is at least decent?

 

  Hide contents

 

I killed that Republique in the opening minutes of the match btw despite being a Lexington and the enemy Midway trying to protect him with fighters.

 

Fun And Engaging^TM

 

Surely, surely, they're going to have to find a way to stop the new CVs being able to push through every single strike. I've no strong opinions on whether the current iteration are good for the game – only that it's better for everyone that I don't try playing them – but I cannot for the life of me see how this is going to improve the experience of anyone playing a surface ship.

[Menchalior]

Well, since they are still working, let's hope for the best... not that I am expecting this carrier thing to work out well. I suspect when they release it, it takes at least 3-6 months before all the bugs have been ironed out. Before that it either CV's don't do thing or they so over powering good, that they can sink 3 to 4 ships before with one reload... yeah they are still testing and know the problems and care them. I keep lying to myself. I hope they won't screw this like WoT section but since they haven't released new CV yet but its still in testing phase, we cannot yet certainly say anything, even I am tad worried when I have seen few videos.

[ForlornSailor]

3 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

One of WG's keynotes was to reduce CV alpha strikes and you could still nuke a BB from full HP in one attack run on their second test iteration. I knew WG's reasons for the rework were a facade but this isn't just BS, that's flat out lying through their teeth and not having the decency to even try to cover up their insincerity.

 

What else is new, right?

 

15 minutes ago, 10ThousandThings said:

Surely, surely, they're going to have to find a way to stop the new CVs being able to push through every single strike.

 

Yea - any suggestions? I had tons of ideas, as had others, how to balance the current CVs. But here? Pff. Dont ask me. There is only "stupidly overpowered damage farmer" or "useless plane simulator". Yea, you could limit the possible striked to one, then have the planes fly back, reload and then start again (like it currently is), but how boring and ineffective would that make them? Remove DoT completly for CVs?

 

19 minutes ago, 10ThousandThings said:

I cannot for the life of me see how this is going to improve the experience of anyone playing a surface ship.

 

Its simple - it wont. How could it? The teamplay mechanics of your CV are gone pretty much - fighting enemy planes, provide spotting. All thats left, is farming damage without beeing interrupted. Ask the early players of the game about something called "CV truce". https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/66357-concerning-cv-trucesno-kill-agreements/

Isnt WG basically in violation of their own fair play agreement?

 

4 minutes ago, Menchalior said:

Well, since they are still working, let's hope for the best

 

Ill ask again: Any ideas?

 

4 minutes ago, Menchalior said:

I suspect when they release it, it takes at least 3-6 months before all the bugs have been ironed out. Before that it either CV's don't do thing or they so over powering good, that they can sink 3 to 4 ships before with one reload

 

You cant put this live and let it go on for 6 months. You think i´d let my DD get r***** for 6 months over and over again ~50 sec in the game? Why the would I keep playing this game? And if it really plays out like it currently is, there will be a huge number of people playing CVs (atleast WG will succeed with that goal then), looking for easy damage. Weather they succeed or not, is another question. But since WG wants up to 3 CVs per game - which would lower the other ships automatically to 9 - there will be enough rounds, where you will be nothing but a XP-Pinata.

[DFens_666]

Guess i can finaly quit the game then

[K82J]

I saw in Notser's video that planes get Radio Location too. So we gonna have now 250+ knot flying radars in every minute ?

[Reaper_JackGBR]

7 minutes ago, K82J said:

I saw in Notser's video that planes get Radio Location too. So we gonna have now 250+ knot flying radars in every minute ?

Wargaming: 

'CV's have too much scouting power, how to fix?'

'Give them Radio Location.' 

[Xevious_Red]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

It has actually gotten worse because in current CVs you at least have auto drop. Since most of the playerbase too is a complete and utter potato auto drop practically guarantees some damage for potato CVs.

In the rework however I've seen two CVs struggle to kill a single 10k HP Zao. I'm not even joking. The Zao was the last ship with about 3 minutes remaining on the clock. Neither CV could hit a ing thing so he just waltzed up to them (in a straight line no less, he wasn't even maneuvering) and killed them both.

 

I wish I could make this  up.

What I found odd was I had no problems avoiding being killed in a surface ship, and no real problems hitting stuff with the CV either. I mostly presumed the high damage was because they were bots - hitting them wasnt hard, it was more a race before they all got killed.

Its mildly worrying that a hosho player i met who was busy saying it was stupid managed a whopping.......1250 damage. For the whole game. Meanwhile Im sat on 60k+ wondering what his problem is

[10ThousandThings]

11 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

Yea - any suggestions? I had tons of ideas, as had others, how to balance the current CVs. But here? Pff. Dont ask me. There is only "stupidly overpowered damage farmer" or "useless plane simulator". Yea, you could limit the possible striked to one, then have the planes fly back, reload and then start again (like it currently is), but how boring and ineffective would that make them? Remove DoT completly for CVs?

This is what concerns me most – I feel the same. One idea that I can think of which might partially address some of this is to make the AA somewhat more effective than it seems to be so far in the rework. Or direct control of fighters, but that seems to have been discarded because reasons.

Overall, I'm feeling more and more that Farazelleth's first impressions were right, in talking about how things could and should have been improved without binning RTS.

 

 

Some form of only having one flight, rather than a full squadron, airborne at a time might help too, but might also be (even more) boring. (I mean, I might play the new CVs, but only if I need to give my brain a rest – which goes completely against what it is about this game that's held my interest: in short, the learning curve, which is what gives it its replayability).

 

11 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

You cant put this live and let it go on for 6 months. You think i´d let my DD get r***** for 6 months over and over again ~50 sec in the game? Why the would I keep playing this game? And if it really plays out like it currently is, there will be a huge number of people playing CVs (atleast WG will succeed with that goal then), looking for easy damage. Weather they succeed or not, is another question. But since WG wants up to 3 CVs per game - which would lower the other ships automatically to 9 - there will be enough rounds, where you will be nothing but a XP-Pinata.

Quoted for truth. I guess I won't quit immediately, but I'm concerned.