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Lea_Flamma

Japanese Destroyer Captain -. Rookie Player

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29 minutes ago, Lea_Flamma said:

I am considering the Superintendent for that battleship that might ask for smoke. They sometimes do.

I'm another that thinks you probably shouldn't worry about this; you'll find that most BBs in the game cower at the back (certainly as you advance up the tiers), so you don't need to worry too much about them, and you probably have enough smoke anyway to help out the noble exceptions to this rule (they're also most likely to understand how smoke and BBs work with the current version of the game).

 

BTW when you're in your IJN DDs, especially, you want to pick your moments with smoke i.e. mainly use it to escape from contact - your concealment is pretty good with the entire IJN torp line, so popping smoke can often telegraph to the enemy exactly where you are, giving them something to shoot at, and guess from where torps may be about to come from...

 

If you have plenty of smoke charges (so, running premium smoke, and/or a captain with Superintendent), there is sometimes scope for using it to create a decoy i.e. create a smoke cloud, and promptly make yourself scarce - the enemy may be persuaded to attack the smoke cloud with torps/guns, so giving themselves away (and also having to wait for torps to reload). Don't do this close to allies though - stray rounds may end up hitting them (plus, you may block their line of sight).

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39 minutes ago, Lea_Flamma said:

I am learning how to lead torpedoes so as to not damage friendlies and when to use guns and when not to.

Short version: your torps, your responsibility. Basically, don't fire torps if there is any possibility of someone sailing into them; you can warn people in chat, but it's still your fault if they get hit. Besides the penalties, torps usually take ages to reload, so you're more effective if you don't waste any on friendlies.

 

The crucial thing when firing guns (and not obscured by smoke etc.) is that your visibility will bloom hugely when you fire, such that you will be spotted out to your gun range (you can get a visual handle on this by looking at your mini-map - which should be expanded to a large size, if you haven't already - the dashed circle showing your visibility will expand outwards when you fire. So, don't fire if the results of everyone in gun range being able to see you would be bad (or rather, worse than the current state of affairs, whatever they are).

 

Speaking of guns, don't forget your AA guns - the default behaviour is for them to fire when planes get within range; this can also mess up your stealth, with very little chance of shooting anything down (usually). Check the range of your AA, versus your visibility from the air (press and hold H in game for a quick pop-up); if your AA has a longer range than your visibility from the sir, toggle it off until spotted (hit P to do so). I am eternally grateful to whoever it was pointed this out to me on here...

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Hey buddy, for DD's your 1st 10 points are really the same across most lines

 

1) Preventative Maintenance

2) Last Stand

3) Basic Fire training / Torpedo armament expert

4) Concealment

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11 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

plus, you may block their line of sight

 

This is maybe the single most important gameplay advice for new DD-captains! Whenever you decide to smoke up, make sure, you dont lose spotting on any enemy ships! If you smoke up and notice, red ships are dissapearing - you are doing something wrong. At the very same moment, there will be 4...11 players in your team, cursing at you. Those moments, that happen a lot, your smoke is actually in favour of the enemys - you are helping them and hurting your team. Correct use of smokescreen is maybe the one thing, that impacts Winrate of DD-players the most.

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Note for the OP: something you'll see from this thread is that there is often disagreement on things like optimum captain builds. There is (mostly) no 'right' answer, and messing up at lower tiers is rarely catastrophic. Personally, I think it starts to matter a bit more when you hit T5, as that's the point where you get +2 MM, and will start to meet nastier opposition, often with better captains...

 

To give an idea for first pass through the skills for a ten-pointer:

  1. PM *or* PT (only one on first pass): PM reduces chance of losing modules, whilst PT provides information.
  2. LS: this is perhaps the only almost 100% agreed upon skill; DDs are boned without power and/or steering, so you always pick this.
  3. SE or a reload skill (BFT or torps): SE will help you survive longer (and has the biggest impact on DDs), so allowing you to do more damage, spot, get caps etc.; the reload skills (pick the one that matches your DD 'type') will help you do more damage by allowing you to fire faster. As with the first tier ones, pick one of these only.
  4. CE is almost universally agreed upon (the notable exceptions are some of the 'dakka' gunboats at higher tiers, where you essentially superglue your fire button down, so making concealment a bit moot).

As a DD driver, absolutely your first priority is to get CE, and as quickly as possible; once you've done that, you can start filling out the other skills, and complete a full build over time. The remaining nine points are generally where you adjust your build to optimise your DD, according to your tastes and play style...

 

(BTW you'll also see reference made to different types of build, especially with more versatile and/or hybrid designs e.g. the T10 Gearing is usually given one of a 'torpedoes' or 'guns' build, or something on a continuum between the two; this stuff also spills over into module choice at higher tier too, but you don't need to worry about that until you get into the top tiers)

 

 

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Such a breath of fresh air, someone new to the game that prefers to learn instead of moaning something is wrong with the game.

 

I tip my hat to you OP. :Smile_honoring:

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Wow this is promising, someone who actually asks for advice and has even figured out last stand on his own.

 

First of all a few basic things:

  • Play lots of ships, don't rush up the tiers.The Japanese, US and German ships should be good for teaching you the basics of all the ship types. Especially the Brits are somewhat gimmicky so maybe pick them later.
  • Enable alternate user interface (more useful info) in the settings. Click the cog icon above your minimap in-game and enable last known ship positions and ship names (need to do this for every ship).
  • Make the map BIG. You will be looking at the map some 70-80% of your time, anything else is just for detailed stuff.
  • Zoom out (with the shift key, forget the mouse wheel) pretty much between every shot. If you aim and first hold down the right and then the left mouse button your ship will keep firing at your aimpoint while you look around.
  • This game is all about positioning. There are no easy answers, you will just have to figure it out. Try to stay near objectives, do not chase the enemy but put yourself in front of advancing reds. Especially in a DD.
  • Destroyers are one of the hardest classes to play properly, since they are very punishing. They're also fun, fast and powerful. But remember to try the other classes as well, you will never be truly good at any class unless you've seen what life looks like from everyone else's perspective.
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OP, I welcome you to the DD club.. You have already had so much good advice from the other members of the forum that there is not much for me to add.. unlike you I came to the forum for advice late.. but benefited greatly from the other members here like you will.

 

My advice:

 

1. Learn enemy radar or hydro capabilities, they will get you killed fast if you don't.

2. Be careful with your torpedoes for if they can destroy an enemy they can also destroy your allies.

3. Never enter a situation because the team demands you do it. It is your ship and you must weigh up for yourself whether you have a chance of succeeding.

4. Always ensure that when you begin your action, capping, spotting or attacking you know exactly how you're going to escape should you be countered.

5. Always be prepared to run away from a bad situation, for in running you can regroup and attack again.. you're still alive.

6. When firing torpedoes you have a grey target line and you will need to learn how to judge a target speed against the speed of your torpedoes.. the grey target line is useful only for stationary targets..

7. Never sit stationary or broadside in smoke unless you know for certain there is no DD or torpedo equipped Cruiser near you. In smoke you cannot spot for the team.

8. Use flags if you have them..

 

Many DD players will have different skill sets for different ships and as you go along the lines you will develop a sense of which work best for each DD.

 

Don't be afraid to keep asking questions.

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14 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

- Torpedod Armament Expertise -> If you go with the Torpedo line (to Shimakaze) then you can/should take it. The alternative line starting with Hatsuharu doesnt need that, as they are more gun focused.

 

Except the fact that the torpedo line has better guns from T5 to T7, and the gunboat line has better torps from T5 to T7. Calling the Hatsuharu always feels like a bad joke to me when I sail it and see I have 2 guns with the reload of a BB, the lowest caliber of all DDs in tier and can stealth torp from stock. Fubuki on the other hand has more guns and can't stealth torp from stock, yet it's called the torpboat line.

 

https://tenor.com/vI9x.gif

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For jap torp dd line (ends in shimakaze) PT or PM (per personal taste) then LS after that SE or TAE (depends if you want more survivability or faster torp reload as priority) then CE after that you can go classical approach (1-2-2-2 skill spread) with RDF then the other t3 skill you didnt pick in first pass (SE or TAE) and finish off with AR or BoS or go with more survival build by skipping RDF and going for several t2/t3 skills

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2 hours ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Except the fact that the torpedo line has better guns from T5 to T7, and the gunboat line has better torps from T5 to T7. Calling the Hatsuharu always feels like a bad joke to me when I sail it and see I have 2 guns with the reload of a BB, the lowest caliber of all DDs in tier and can stealth torp from stock. Fubuki on the other hand has more guns and can't stealth torp from stock, yet it's called the torpboat line.

 

I never understood the logic in that. When I checked the line rigth after they split it, I seriously thought: "they must have mixed those up, guess it will be fixed soon". Well...

 

 

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2 hours ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Except the fact that the torpedo line has better guns from T5 to T7, and the gunboat line has better torps from T5 to T7. Calling the Hatsuharu always feels like a bad joke to me when I sail it and see I have 2 guns with the reload of a BB, the lowest caliber of all DDs in tier and can stealth torp from stock. Fubuki on the other hand has more guns and can't stealth torp from stock, yet it's called the torpboat line. 

 

https://tenor.com/vI9x.gif

 

True that... same happened to me when i at first blindly trusted WG to make the Torpline having better torps, so i went with Mutsuki :Smile_facepalm: Minekazes torps are better tho. Alltho the gun reload is horrendous, but 4 are still better than 2, because you might not get a favourable shot in constantly, so you have a better alphastrike chance, And even against angling/evading targets 4 are better than 2.

 

Even the name fits better if they would be reversed... mineKAZE -> ShimaKAZE... MutsUKI -> AkizUKI

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5 hours ago, AndyHill said:

Play lots of ships

This, but also make sure you play every class such that you understand their strengths and weaknesses and where they fit in the game generally.

 

The worst nightmare for a DD player is a good DD player in a BB/CA.

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17 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

I actually do not know what the best torp line overall is currently, but the Fletcher is arguably the most flexible along with one of, if not the best torp DD in the game.

This

 

@Lea_Flamma You might have heard people calling the IJN DD line (at least the one leading to the shimakaze) "THE torp boat line". Just some nuances regarding the different lines

 

- The IJN dds we're talking about. I'd say the highlight might be tier 6 and 7, where you have the superior 3x3 torp launchers, with around 1 minute reload, combined with decent matchmaking and limited radars. Every IJN DD that sees tier ten is probably subpar, especially for newer players. (The stealth is less and less of an argument, since they are becoming more and more powercrept in that department too)

 

- US DDs can't stealth torp until Mahan at tier 7. The t7/8 are capable torpedoboats, though nothing remarkable. At T9/10 (since gearing can mount "fletcher torps"), @El2aZeR might be correct in calling them the best torp DDs.

 

- The PanAsia DDs can't torp DDs, but their torps are borderline OP-stealthy. Which would make Chung Mu a very decent contender with Fletcher.

 

- German DDs are capable torp boats, but especially the tier ten can spew out 8 out them every minute. RoF is something not to be underestimated in the torp department.

 

---

 

If you want to start with DDs as your first shiptype (and you should play other types anyway), I'd recommend going for something more flexible than boats who rely mostly on their one trick. Any one of the other 3 I mentioned might be ok, if I had to pick one it'll probably be the USN dds.

 

 

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I am pushing up Japanese DD line, currently on the Tier IV Isokaze. But I am also advancing USA Destroyer and Cruiser line, but am on Tier II and III respectively I believe. Also pushing the Royal Cruiser line as well, but again just Tier III. I just found the Tier III JPN DD too much fun and pushed further up the line.

 

As for playstyle I noticed, I overextend a little, or perhaps Cruiser players want to be Battleship players and don't follow enough. I will rush for a cap and get into stupid gunfights with enemy Destroyers. As my main goal I set myself to torpedo enemy Battleships to sink or force them to broadside to my own Battleships. Also trying to find the enemy Carriers if there are any, sank a few already. I am getting the feeling, that Japanese Destroyers are not really good for cap rushing as they cannot contest it, unless the enemy Destroyer runs side first into a torpedo attack.

 

So for Japanese Captain:

1. Preemptive Maintenance

2. Last Stand

3. Torpedo Armaments Expertise

4. Concealment Expert

 

For USA Captain:

1. Preemptive Maintenance

2. Last Stand

3. Survival Expert

4. Radio Location

 

As for shooting guns, I will mainly do that, if enemy has his gun facing away from me and if there is an island I can hind behind within one reload time. Also against enemy Destroyers if there is no other possibility and they keep my spotted.

 

As for torpedos... I had friendlies just stupidly turn into them without a care in the world... I spent more games on pink that without. Cruiser backing up on full reverse to suddenly decide to go straight into my torpedos that were aimed at the Battleship that was charging him. Or another one that just had to turn into them, blind to the game notifications and my chat messages... Although yeah, I did torp a friendly ship by accident once due to my own lack of awareness, the backing off from Scope view is a sound advice.

 

Edit:

I have been watching some YT clips by Jingles, which gave me an overall idea what to do. But seeing and doing are completely different things.

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For US dds I always go PT/PM>LS>BFT>CE for core build, after that it depends if i build it for aa/support with AFT>TAE/DE>AR or dd hunting with RDF>SE>AR

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45 minutes ago, Lea_Flamma said:

Edit:

I have been watching some YT clips by Jingles, which gave me an overall idea what to do. But seeing and doing are completely different things.

About that, don't look at Jingles videos for gameplay advice. Jingles is entertaining, but hardly informative outside the most rudimentary of basics such as angling and using WASD. He also very frequently gives outdated informations.

 

If you're looking for good guides, commentaries and in general informative content you should watch iChaseGaming and Flamu. The former has a very good series of tutorials that cover everything a new player needs to know and the latter has a vast library of gameplay commentaries covering more advanced nuances of higher level gameplay. If you're ever interested in buying premium ships, both of them also feature gameplay reviews of those.

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right, a few comments I guess :Smile_Default:

 

Quote

or perhaps Cruiser players want to be Battleship players and don't follow enough

you'll learn why cruisers are a bit reluctant to push hard once you get the T4 Phoenix and find yourself oneshotted by enemy BBs all the time. Doesn't mean they shouldn't sometimes support you a lot more, but also cut the poor buggers some slack :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Quote

I will rush for a cap and get into stupid gunfights with enemy Destroyers

baaaaad idea in an IJN DD most of the time - your guns patently suck, especially at low tiers. Doesn't mean you should never use them, but generally it shouldn't be you that goes looking for a gunfight early (unless other factors skew it in your advantage, like low HP enemies or lots of support from your team). As you yourself correctly note,

Quote

I am getting the feeling, that Japanese Destroyers are not really good for cap rushing as they cannot contest it, unless the enemy Destroyer runs side first into a torpedo attack.

very true - at least on the "forcibly contest" front. What IJN DDs do usually have is the concealment advantage that makes it very unappealing for the enemy to go after a cap because you will usually see them coming. Really making use of that does require pretty extensive knowledge of the concealment values of all the ships you meet, so for a newer player like yourself caution is probably the better part of valour when it comes to going for early caps in an IJN DD. You can experiment with doing that more again a bit later on in your carreer.

 

Quote

Also trying to find the enemy Carriers if there are any, sank a few already

kinda valid at the tier you're at, and certainly always satisfying but don't get into that habit too much - as soon as you hit T5, the carriers you meet arent the slow tugboats that you're used to anymore, they can almost outrun you and are also a lot better at simply killing you.

 

Quote

So for Japanese Captain:

1. Preemptive Maintenance

2. Last Stand

3. Torpedo Armaments Expertise

4. Concealment Expert

yup, although Survivability Expert is just a very good overall skill for DDs so that's also worth thinking about for a level 3 skill.

Quote

For USA Captain:

1. Preemptive Maintenance

2. Last Stand

3. Survival Expert

4. Radio Location

No. Always. Always. Always. Grab Concealment Expert as soon as you can on pretty much any tech tree DD that isnt Russian (and even there it's the best pick on most of them, exceptions being Kiev, Tashkent Khaba and maybe Udaloi).

 

57 minutes ago, Lea_Flamma said:

As for torpedos... I had friendlies just stupidly turn into them without a care in the world... I spent more games on pink that without. Cruiser backing up on full reverse to suddenly decide to go straight into my torpedos that were aimed at the Battleship that was charging him. Or another one that just had to turn into them, blind to the game notifications and my chat messages... Although yeah, I did torp a friendly ship by accident once due to my own lack of awareness, the backing off from Scope view is a sound advice

torping a friendly is 100% always your own fault. Your torps, you launched them where you did, your responsibility if they hit a friendly. Period. Even if the other guy did something unexpected, think about it this way. Who are you to restrict his maneuvering options by just assuming "he's not gonna go there" and throwing your torps there? Doesnt mean it never happens to me of course, you can't always predict everything, but if it happens it's your fault and you shouldn't have launched those fish, plain and simple.

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1 hour ago, Lea_Flamma said:

I am pushing up Japanese DD line, currently on the Tier IV Isokaze. But I am also advancing USA Destroyer and Cruiser line, but am on Tier II and III respectively I believe.

Another thing.

 

You really don't want to pass beyond tier 5 with a DD without concealment expert. You will need a lot of XP to get enough skillpoints, granted, but I can only imagine the horrors of smt like a mutsuki without CE.

 

That's why I'd recommend playing in both IJN and US lines the tier 4 a lot, and by that I mean don't just play it until you can unlock the tier 5 ship, but play until you have enough or close to enough captain XP to unlock CE.

 

And tier 4 because it has on the US side the clemson, aka the clubson (ever wondered why you see so many of them at your tiers? And why they don't all to seem very newbie... yea...) and the isokaze on the IJN side, which is probably the strongest IJN dd in tier 1-6. (umikaze maybe notwithstanding? Any clubbing expert is free to do some input here :Smile-_tongue:)

 

On your US cruiser line you might want to linger at t3, the saint louis is very strong, until you have some more captain XP.

No idea about the british cruisers, I got them immediately from tier 6 (and if not, I would have freexpd till there :P )

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6 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

That's why I'd recommend playing in both IJN and US lines the tier 4 a lot, and by that I mean don't just play it until you can unlock the tier 5 ship, but play until you have enough or close to enough captain XP to unlock CE.

 

Its a good idea anyway, to not rush through the techtree as fast as possible, as a new player. One reason is the economy. You´ll get by easier, when you gather yourself some credit. Everything gets more expensive, the higher you get: modules, mantainance...

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1 minute ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Its a good idea anyway, to not rush through the techtree as fast as possible, as a new player. One reason is the economy. You´ll get by easier, when you gather yourself some credit. Everything gets more expensive, the higher you get: modules, mantainance...

True, but at the same time I remember being constantly enthrilled by the exploration of "the next best thing" when I started this game myself, so I'd understand why that particular advice might be hard to adhere to :Smile_Default:

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9 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

True, but at the same time I remember being constantly enthrilled by the exploration of "the next best thing" when I started this game myself, so I'd understand why that particular advice might be hard to adhere to :Smile_Default:

if that weren't the case, games like this wouldn't exist...

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17 hours ago, Lea_Flamma said:

I am still learning the playstyle, so it's an interesting experience. I am learning how to lead torpedoes so as to not damage friendlies and when to use guns and when not to. Islands are my waifus now. I don't fully grasp the detection and stuff yet, but I learned not to shoot all the time.

As for torps - usually you want to be closer to your target than your allies are. Such situations basically guarantee that you won't torp allies.

As for detection - it's a good idea to set up your minimap so that it shows your detection range. When in battle press CTRL and then click the cogwell right above the minimap - this should allow you to activate optional things to be displayed on the minimap. Last known positions of enemy ships and detection range (by sea at least) are very useful, some other things can be useful too (I personally use weapon ranges, for example) but the more circles you activate, the more clutter the whole thing gets, up to the point where the actually useful information might be obstructed by the "noise". It's up to you to strike the balance that gives you the info you want while keeping things reasonably simple and easy to read.

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1 hour ago, Tyrendian89 said:

No. Always. Always. Always. Grab Concealment Expert as soon as you can on pretty much any tech tree DD that isnt Russian (and even there it's the best pick on most of them, exceptions being Kiev, Tashkent Khaba and maybe Udaloi).

@Lea_Flamma - this. All kinds of this.

 

10% reduction in spotting distance doesn't sound like much, but it makes an enormous difference to your chances of survival (for the same reason, never face real people in a ship without cammo if you can help it).

 

BTW IJN DDs are quite fragile, so I would take SE on my first pass, and get torp reload later (SE increases your chances of doing everything more, by surviving longer, whilst the reload skills only allow you to shoot faster)...

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I am aiming to stop at Tier VI for the operations. Also... I am this kind of player that picks ships based on their look :Smile_child:

 

Okay, so PM, LS, SE and CE for Japan and USA for a start. Then TAE for Japan and AR for USE, or stall for BFT.

 

I am honestly interested in the Tier VI American premium DD that can be built into a torpedo boat. Mona-something.

 

A little off topic, transfer the captain to the next ship it train a new one for each?

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