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Dolgorukov

Some personal thoughts

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Hello, 
 
I want to point out a few things.
 
I purchased the Musashi battleship with coal which I saved for about two months. After about a hundred battles I was greatly frustrated with this ship. I thought that its big guns will be fun to use but in reality they are horribly inaccurate. In some games I fired 4-5 consecutive salvos at the same enemy ship NEVER actually hitting the target. I did not hit at all! The shell splashed around the enemy. Someone told me in the chat that ships that are purchased with real world money are more accurate and give a generally much better experience. Is this true? Because if it is I wish I knew it earlier and may be buy some ship. I am not stingy but why would I buy a ship since I already have 10 or 20 free ones - more than enough for the time I have to play. 
 
Other thing with the Musashi is that too much players from the opposing team target me. With 3-5 enemy ships shooting at me at the same time I have very slim chances. And this happens way too often to be called occasional. So basically the only proven good thing is that this ship earns a ton of money (credits, not euro) compared to other battleships of this tier who actually don't earn almost nothing unless you are the top player. 
 
I think that there is too much luck factor in playing this game. I am not talking only about the RNG. This is or it is supposed to be a team game. Every type of ship has advantages and disadvantages. Playing in teams with a different type of ships has to amount to a strong force. In pretty much every game its every man for himself. The players are doing something that looks like a teamwork only because of the limitations of the map and ships are going either left or right. This isn't really a strategy. Stemming from this is that playing in a battleships which I like most is that battleships are at great disadvantage - they are most easily detectable and slowest. These two factors combined with their large HP pool makes then easy and desirable target. Every one wants to catch a big fish!
I think that "I need help" in-game command is totally useless and my sincere suggestion is that it should be removed. Like a said above teammates usually don't understand that if they don't help me and my ship sinks the whole team loses points and firepower.
 
I think I had more fun with lower tier ships. That is because with a lower fire power I had better chances in one on one fights. Since higher tiers possess higher fire power cruisers and destroyers become more deadly. For a player like me who is into battleships this makes gameplay underprivileged. I get easily damaged and most likely destroyed by fire, HE spam and torpedoes either form DDs or CVs. This is in connection with the lack of team work. I am not saying that other types capabilities should be diminished but after all why would I play most often a damage farm so that other players could make their XP and achievements? Playing myself with a battleships puts me too often in no-win situations and I have little to no way to predict and counter them alone. After all every game in its very core is supposed to be fun and entertaining. You may find it shameful to admit but losing too much is no fun at all. 
 
Knowledge of ships characteristics doesn't help in an useful way that I could apply in real time. I tried to learn from the game mechanics but they are mostly tables and data with virtually no practical use. Lets say for example tier 10 has lowest coefficient for catching fire, around 0.5. But in reality tier 10 battleships burn like a torch. I often get fires easily. Often with the first received HE salvo. And what exactly is this Fire Prevention captain skill about - even with it I get 2-3 fires so what is it preventing my ship from? And what if the enemy ship has flags boosting HE capabilities mounted on? Do these two factor negate each other? And what if the enemy battleships is a Conqueror who has a better HE than any other BB? And there are dozens of ships can I really study all of them and somehow prosses this data before every game? 
 
Armor penetration, do I really have to care about it? As if I can shoot precisely in the enemy ships citadel in a critical moment when its him or me? Or from a distance of 20 km so that the enemy ship can make a few zig-zags and avoid my shells. Unlike a first person shooter. FPSs offer weapons which if practiced enough and mastered can deliver deadly blow. I think I have a good aiming but in many critical situations RNG clearly undermined my efforts.
 
I think there should be more videos on teamplay and how a playing in a team can be more productive and leading to greater feeling of control over end results. Learning sigma or other coefficients is of little importance for the individual player. I think learning from games is too slow. Game seems to be more convenient for "full time" gamers who are able and willing to devote countless hours of playing on a daily basis, thus learning too many possible scenarios and act accordingly. I only wanted to play for fun a few games every now and then and because of that I can not compare in skill with most of the random teams. I am always trailing in performance and results. I watched videos of "superstar" players like Flamu and Panzerckaner but I could learn nothing. Its like watching Magnus Carlsen chess games and thinking I could become a chess champion. It doesn't work like that, is it? OK, some people may be more talented than others in playing games.
 
Finally and this is personal: some webpage for WoWs statistics showed that my performance is below average. I have played about 2100 games, almost all of them with battleships. That is roughly 500 hours of gameplay. That is three weeks of non stop playing. I think that is way too much time and if that isn't enough to become somewhat good then the game simply isn't for me. Although I am not complaining I wish I had an idea about that before I wasted so much time. I do not want to play this game anymore. But after all there is some good in every bad thing. I feel I will value my time more. 
 
Best,
Dolgorukov
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Ill just cross your points off one at a time.

 

1 - musashi. How in the name of all that is holy have you played 88% of your games in german battleships, and think that the musashi of all things is inaccurate? It sounds to me like you are making the mistake of seeing that 26km range and think its a good idea to camp at max range. The musashi is waaay more accurate than any of the german battleships. Also, the musashi deals very well with being focused, probably the best of all tier 9 battleships, aslong as you are in a good tanking position(nose in) and not getting crossfired. If you are getting crossfired, you are out of position.

 

2 - Luck. There is quite   a bit of rng in the game, but player skill is by far the biggest decider of battle outcome, especially given a large sample size. Player skill trumps all other factors.

 

3 - Battleships weak?. No, they are in fact one of the strongest classes in the game.

 

4 - having more fun in lower tiers. Yes, you probably would do, because you havent really learnt the game yet, and the lower tiers are far mor forgiving than higher tiers. In the higher tiers, if you get caught out of position - you die, if you manouver your ships badly - you die. If you do any tiny thing wrong - you die. The lower tiers are a more forgiving environment to learn the game in, there is no need to rush to the higher tiers. 

I do have to say tho, your excuse of battleships being unfavorable in the high tiers, is completely reversed, they are all in all the strongest ship class in high tier matches, you just need to know how to play them.

 

5 - Knowledge of ship characteristics. It is absolutely vital to know the game mechanics by heart, and to know rough characteristics of the ships to even be able to play decently. It is impossible to play well without a good amount of game knowledge, especially so at the higher tiers.

 

6 - Armor penetration. Yes, you really do need to know this, especially as a battleship, and yes, you can definitely an enemy citadel reliably if you plan, position, and aim well. And if your average engagement range is 20km, you are playing wrong.

You should know the armor schemes and weakpoints of every ship you face, atleast roughly.

 

7 - Videos on teamplay. Sadly wouldnt help as the avarege potato wont watch it :Smile-_tongue:

 

8 - time it takes to get good. You dont get good at this game by playing an x amount of battles. I have also played about 2000 battles, and look at my stats: https://wows-numbers.com/player/503950473,thiextar/

Getting good at this game is all about being willing to learn, read up on all the ships, look at their armor schemes, watch guides, read up on game mechanics etc, and be willing to accept your own mistakes and shortcomings.

 

World of warships is tremendously based on planning, analyzing situations, positioning, and situational awareness skills. If you are willing to learn and improve, you can get very good at this game, but it takes more than just playing battles. If that is not for you, then id advice you stick to the lower tiers :Smile_coin:

 

If you want personal help and specific points which you can improve at, then upload a replay on here, and us forumites can comment on it :Smile_honoring:

 

 

 

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Wall of text + "special" colors...

 

Someone can get a TL:DR? Or is thiextar response enough of a sample to gather that the OP needs to L2P?

 

Nevermind, cursory look indicates: OP, try learning to play the rest of the classes, might reduce your ignorance regarding game items.

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21 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Ill just cross your points off one at a time.

 

1 - musashi. How in the name of all that is holy have you played 88% of your games in german battleships, and think that the musashi of all things is inaccurate?

 

 

 

 

 

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I'll touch upon a few points in your long post.

 

I feel like a lot of frustration in battleships comes down to situational awareness. If everyone is targetting you, can you get back in concealment if you cease firing? Why not? 

 

It's not always easy. You DO need to close to ~mid range to hit reliably with your guns. Yet you should always have a way out = movement vector to take you quickly within concealment, or island to brake LOS. With Musashi the magic zone is somewhere around 13-15 km (assuming full stealth build). You guns WILL feel accurate from this range, but you still have a way out. This optimal engagement envelope can be quite narrow, unless you decide it's time to go "all in" and not worry about being able to disengage. I've come to regard truly successful play in BB's as a fairly tricky thing.  It's certainly harder than playing one of those cruisers that reliably hits with HE from 15+ km.

 

Between being able to disengage, good angling in all situations, and being mathematical about hitting "R" (never at first fire, possibly not at second), you'll find your survival rate go up. You ask what Fire Prevention does if you still get 2-3 fires. Your question contains the answer -- it prevents the fourth fire. :Smile_veryhappy:

 

Luck though is one of those things "good" players always mysteriously have more of. Even the best player can't swing every game, but you persistently do smart things, 1-2 games in 10 you can make a difference in. And that's what separates the 60% and 40% guys.

 

You say you had more fun in lower tiers. Why not play there? I feel like too many people play top tiers out of principle.

 

About those ship characteristics/penetration mechanics etc. It's helpful to have an encyclopedic knowledge of this, but I'd argue it's not really needed. I do NOT know that stuff, and I have the stats of someone who'd be called "good" in this game. I do NOT remember what the magic overmatch multiplier is, or whose deck I can penetrate and whose I can't. I still work based on a sort of a gut feeling and guesstimation. Something like: qualitatively estimate based on experience how "tough" the opponent is from this angle --> can I go into his citadel, if yes then try, otherwise --> can I go into softer, upper parts with AP, if yes then try, otherwise --> use HE. It works quite well.

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[JRM]
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@OP you know those squishy moskvas that have the citadel running the entire length of the ship? Yes? Well you can in fact sail broadside in those straight through the caps and do 150k battles earnin 2k base xp and 1000000 credits in them and surviving battle to tell the tale! How? Situational awerness... Git better

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Is this a "polite, spellchecked, lectored, a well put together, based on personal experience, below 2.5 k games" BB whine thread? 

 

Dont want to be mocking or anything... but the rest of ship classes are not put into the game just to make BB play fun.

Why do I get this feeling every single time that I read this kind of post?

And when this players don't get insta easy success, then the devs should change the game just for your convenience???

 

Yeah.. nonono... play other classes too and try to see this also from other perspective.

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[KAKE]
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I'll read the first post when it's posted in forum default colours...

 

(STOP USING DARK TEXT COLOURS FFS! They don't work on the dark forum theme.)

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1 hour ago, Uglesett said:

I'll read the first post when it's posted in forum default colours...

 

(STOP USING DARK TEXT COLOURS FFS! They don't work on the dark forum theme.)

This!

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Don't play the Musashi and play your mid tier BB's again.  I'm interpreting your play as typical mid tier battleship captain play, I'm betting you are over extending and not relying on your map for your situational awareness.  As said mid tier boats are more forgiving and the potential to 'rip you a new one' is a lot lower, go back and enjoy yourself, no point in playing a game and not enjoying it.  Tier 10 is NOT the pinnacle of the game, it's just a higher tier, you have to be proficient at all tiers, as they all play differently.  To be fair mid tiers are a hell of a lot more fun to play too, it always seems a lot faster paced to me and I enjoy those games more than high tier stuff.  But the whole point of gaming is that you enjoy it, there is no other point :Smile_honoring:

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You'll get a fair amount of "l2p" and they wouldnt be entirely wrong.

 

However, a reasonable amount of your frustation likely stems from the fact you ONLY play battleships.

 

Battleships are the "easiest" class to play because they are the most forgiving - they have lots of health/armour,  and can get away with things like sailing broadside and not dying.

However, at the same time battleships require a reasonable amount of game knowledge to play effectively - they are the easiest to spot, and their lower speed/poor handling means they can be difficult to disengage with. Particularly at high tiers when you have cruisers that can have 18km ranges. This makes it very easy to overextend in them and end up dead. Sure it takes 5 mins for them to die, but they're going to sink. Alternatively the *ahem* long range favouring battleships that love to hug the borders avoid dying, but they have next to no influence on map control and thus they lose again and again.

 

Play some of the other classes. This is useful for multiple reasons;

A). You (hopefully) learn how/when to disengage and stealth up when needed. This can then be applied to your BB who are less reactive and need to make this descision earlier.

B). BB arent particularly great at capping. By playing other classes you can learn how best to cap and therefore how to be the most useful when supporting in your BB.

C). You learn some things about the other classes. This is useful stuff to know. I wouldnt bother learning all the stuff like fire coefficients and sigma. However, knowing that the shimakaze has 15 torps with long range and a long reload is useful. Same with armour plating - I dont bother learning every ship in detail. However knowing that the GK has a 60mm bow which means it can bounce your muashi shells is worth knowing. Similarly knowing that the khaba has a mid section thats a 50mm plate and can therefore also bounce your muashi shells is worth knowing.

It also lets you take more considered actions - a khaba shows up 10km away, turns broadside (a classic move for a DD thats launching torps). Are you in danger? Knowing that the khaba only has 6km torps means you can react accordingly.

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12 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:
Someone told me in the chat that ships that are purchased with real world money are more accurate and give a generally much better experience. Is this true?

 

Since noone explicitly answered that so far:

No, this is ofc not true. There have been Premium ships which are controversial so to say, because they were/are probably not balanced properly (Belfast, Kutuzov, Saipan, GC...) Some of them have been permanently removed from sales due to that reason.

 

As to BBs being too weak in general:

What do you think will happen when they are played by people who are good with them? Do you think you will stand a better chance when they get buffs? Hell no...

A general misconception by bad BB players also seems to be, that its nasty Cruisers/DDs that cause huge amount of damage to them - this is most of the time not true. Sure, when you move in a straight line all the time you will get torped. If you move around and alternate your speed in between, DDs will have a harder time hitting you with torps. Also a Cruiser has an easy time burning you down if you overextend and let him do it. Thats one of the things they have going for them. Basicly you want to take that away, and make them even bigger XP pinatas that they already are. You should play 2000 battles in Cruisers aswell and see how easy they can die with one BB salvo. It will happen to you - more than once.

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Where did you write this? And why did you write this somewhere else and then copy pasted it onto here? lastly, why the hell does the forum STILL accept foreign formats that aren't even useable by default users in here, it's even extended outside the comment box ...

 

The post format is such a bloody mess I can't even read it on the dark forum theme.

 

 

As for the actual content: it's just screaming stubborn learn resistance and willfull ignorance:

 

Yes you can learn every ship's characteristics, in fact it should come naturally as you play as you keep seeing and playing against the ships meaning you're constantly exposed to the results of their characteristics. Stuff like speed, range, weapon alpha, weapon dpm, if they have torps, how many and with what damage and range, etc., yadda yadda!

Yes you can apply that knowledge in realtime and in meaningful ways (very useful for target priorization and for knowing when you're outmatched and need to play it defensively or when you can push more aggressively because you outmatch the opposition).

Yes, Fire Prevention is a hugely useful skill because it combines the two middle section fire locations into one. Since most ships will hit your center, reducing the spots they can set fires at to half from 2 to 1 means you suffer less fire damage. You would know that if you understood how fires work (game mechanics!).

Yes, armour penetration is incredibly useful to know, especially a couple mechanics tied to it; namely overmatching (your Musashi could benefit hugely from knowing that) and HE penetration. It's even moreso useful for ship classes that don't come with gun calibers whose AP and HE can basically smash through everything by default (i.e.: everything that doesn't come with battleship guns). If you actually played something different from BBs, you'd have to learn that real quick or you'd hardly do any damage at all.

And lastly yes again, you can learn a huge deal from watching Youtube guides/commentaries. Same as you can learn being better at chess by watching Magnus Carlsen, you simply have to be able to identify the basic principles and derive the meaning and execution of more advanced play that are based on those. The only way you learn little to nothing is if you have little to no prior knowledge and wouldn't be able to see a good play when it happened!

 

You seem to outright start with the attitude that you couldn't learn stuff and that even when you could it wouldn't help you. That's wrong and quite honestly I'm not surprised you're struggling to play well with that philosophy.

 

 

And though you're not incorrect to say that some people are simply better/more talented and some things and have an easier time, that doesn't mean you can't learn all these things. It just takes a bit more effort and time for you then. But the most crucial aspect of it all is to have an open and curious mindset that allows you to absorb and learn from new informations in the first place.

 

 

Luckily for you, that seems to be your most pressing issue and is relatively easily rectified. You've shown you can think critically in your post, the thing is you're simply arguing from a position of limited understanding. If you can just reflect on that and work up your knowledge you should have little difficulty in improving in great strides.

 

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22 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Where did you write this? And why did you write this somewhere else and then copy pasted it onto here? lastly, why the hell does the forum STILL accept foreign formats that aren't even useable by default users in here, it's even extended outside the comment box ...

 

The post format is such a bloody mess I can't even read it on the dark forum theme.

8aJxaeW.png

 

Simple paste to notepad than copy paste to forums would fix this...

I cant even read it on mobile without doing (num of rows)*swipes.

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12 hours ago, thiextar said:

as you are in a good tanking position(nose in)

I'm sure you meant "as long as you are kiting and not a complete sitting duck "tanking" bow-on like an idiot"

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6 hours ago, nambr9 said:

Is this a "polite, spellchecked, lectored, a well put together, based on personal experience, below 2.5 k games" BB whine thread? 

 

Dont want to be mocking or anything... but the rest of ship classes are not put into the game just to make BB play fun.

Why do I get this feeling every single time that I read this kind of post?

And when this players don't get insta easy success, then the devs should change the game just for your convenience???

 

Yeah.. nonono... play other classes too and try to see this also from other perspective.

 

But will this ever happen?

Will those whiny BB-only players really ever play other classes?

 

I think no!

Cause otherwise my IJN DDs wouldn't have this bad concealment on their torpedos...

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14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:
Spoiler

bv1BKVX.png

 

Can you at least get your post in a readable colour? When you paste it from somewhere else do the decent thing and click "paste as plain text instead" below the text box :cap_old:

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

After about a hundred battles I was greatly frustrated with this ship. I thought that its big guns will be fun to use but in reality they are horribly inaccurate. In some games I fired 4-5 consecutive salvos at the same enemy ship NEVER actually hitting the target.

IJN BBs - including Musashi - ARE accurate, especially when compared to others. That doesn't mean RNG won't troll you every now and then

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

Someone told me in the chat that ships that are purchased with real world money are more accurate and give a generally much better experience. Is this true?

This is nothing more than someones tinfoil hat squeezing their head a little bit too much

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

Other thing with the Musashi is that too much players from the opposing team target me. With 3-5 enemy ships shooting at me at the same time I have very slim chances. And this happens way too often to be called occasional.

1) Positioning

2) Not being alone

3) Is it HE or AP? Against AP you can easily angle, her armour is more than good enough for it. Meanwhile HE takes a lot of time, especially since Musashi actually has quite a lot of HE-proof armour like the 50 & 57mm decks.

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

In pretty much every game its every man for himself.

Get a division

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

I think I had more fun with lower tier ships.

Then go play them. Just because you have finished a grind doesn't mean you're no longer allowed to play the ship. Noone forces you to play at high tiers

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

I get easily damaged and most likely destroyed by fire, HE spam and torpedoes

  • 100% healable, relatively easily manageable. Don't dmg-con 1 fire the second it's set on you
  • He spam takes a long time to do significant dmg, and in the case of Musashi you have a lot of armour where that HE will always shatter for 0 dmg
  • Buy a keyboard, use A and D keys (or Q and E if you prefer thsoe) every once in a while. Suddenly torpedoes are far from being a problem

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

Knowledge of ships characteristics doesn't help in an useful way that I could apply in real time.

Oh it does. Quite a lot in fact

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

Lets say for example tier 10 has lowest coefficient for catching fire, around 0.5. But in reality tier 10 battleships burn like a torch. I often get fires easily. Often with the first received HE salvo. And what exactly is this Fire Prevention captain skill about - even with it I get 2-3 fires so what is it preventing my ship from? And what if the enemy ship has flags boosting HE capabilities mounted on? Do these two factor negate each other? And what if the enemy battleships is a Conqueror who has a better HE than any other BB? And there are dozens of ships can I really study all of them and somehow prosses this data before every game? 

Now trying to play a cruiser shooting at that same t10 BB with FP. A salvo. Two. Three. Five. Still no fires. Oh look, one in the 6th! And he insta dmg-cons. So you drop 50 more shells on it without a single fire.

Your view is biased from the "BB under fire from multiple cruisers" side, that's why you fail to understand how that fire resist actually helps you massively

 

What does FP give you? Aside from 10% reduction in chance of setting a fire on you (and yeah, it actually kinda matters) it reduces max fires on you from 4 to 3, combining the both middle ones - the ones most often set - into one. So effectively when you'd normally have 2 fires you still have just 1 with FP

 

And yes, the bonus of those flags is still reduced by your resistances.

Here's how it works:

[Fire Resistance Coefficient] x ( 1 - [Damage Control Modification 1] - [Fire Prevention] ) x ( [Projectile Base Fire Chance] + [Demolition Expert] + [Signals] - [Inertial Fuse for HE Shells]) = Fire Chance

So if you have Zao with both flags and DE firing at Yamato with FP and DCM1:

0.5005 * (1 - 0.05 - 0.1) * (19 + 2 + 1 + 1) = 0.5005 * 0.85 * 23 = 9.78% or average of 1 fire per 10.2 shells hit.

Note that that's a AVERAGE CHANCE, which means you still can go 50 shells without a single fire or get 2 fires in a row from just 2 shells hit. In the end it averages out over a larger number of shells landed

 

And Conqs HE is just as affected as any other HE. That 46% (applies to the Republic aswell btw) when fired at a t10 BB with FP and DCM1 turns into 19.57% or about 1 in 5 chance.

And so what it has better HE than other BBs? There is a CA with better HE than other CAs, a DD with better HE than other DDs. There always is at least one, unless they all are identical

 

And finally - you don't need to memorize specifics of every single ship. Helps, sure, but the traits are class, line & nation based, not ship-to-ship based. You just need to know how RN BBs differ from IJN BBs, not how Conq and Lion differs from Izumo and Yamato

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

Armor penetration, do I really have to care about it?

Only if you want to actually penetrate something.

I mean, feel free to keep shattering your HE on someones main belt instead of hitting their bow / superstructure. Alternatively feel free to fire Conqs AP at max range when you'll struggle to pen a CL.

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

As if I can shoot precisely in the enemy ships citadel in a critical moment when its him or me?

More often than not you kinda can. That's why you still aim at something not jsut on the general direction of the ship. Even more so if you are playing a cruiser or DD, you can even aim for which section you want to set the fire on the enemy

 

14 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

Or from a distance of 20 km

Get closer

 

15 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

FPSs offer weapons which if practiced enough and mastered can deliver deadly blow.

...with no physics such as fall of the shot included in it.

Aiming and dodging is actually important here, it's not a hitscan or something like that

 

 

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@Dolgorukov - others have covered off most of the crucial points already, but as well as strongly agreeing with the suggestion to play the other classes (apart from CVs), I would also urge you to join a clan (preferably one with people willing to help other players learn).

 

Besides getting some useful in-game bonuses, and access to CW, being in a clan should make it easier to find experienced players who can critique your play, and help you improve.

 

I'm awful at BBs in general, and even I can tell that Musashi is one of the better ones (so long as a CV doesn't take an interest in you)...

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Thank you for writing. At least for what was constructive, not the hate. I read advices and will read the again. But for now I`m done with the game, already deleted it. May in a couple of months if I am in a better mood Ill give it a try again. 

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10 minutes ago, Dolgorukov said:

Ill give it a try again. 

I would do - it'd be a shame to waste the ships you have.

 

That said, be mindful that WOWS (and WOT - it seems to be a theme with WG) has a long learning curve; to get the most out of the game, one has to be patient - it will take time, and the game gets notably harder at higher tiers (mainly due to more better players, and the fact that ships have the power to seriously punish mistakes). This is actually a good thing though - this isn't a shallow shooter, but something that takes time to master, and it does reward the investment when you start to get the hang of it.

 

Says me, with only a 48% WR (I think)!

 

 

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