British Heavy Cruiser Line ***UPDATED***

[TicoXotaR]

Updated British Heavy Cruisers from Tier 6 -10. 3 Premiums included Let me know your opinions of this line. 

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Tier 5 Premium - HMS Hawkins (Hawkins Class Heavy Cruiser) Commisioned: 1919. Her class was the first heavy cruisers for the Royal Navy. She was the 
flagship of the 2nd, 4th and 5th Light Cruiser Squadron from 1919-1935. She also took part in Normandy Landings, providing Artillery bombardment.

Displacement: 12,190tons
Length: 184m
Beam: 18m
Draught: 5.26m
Armor
Main Belt: 38-76mm
Upper Belt: 38-51mm
Upper Deck: 25-38mm
Main Deck: 25-38mm
Gun Shields: 25-51mm
Armament
Main Battery: 7x1 190mm
Secondary Battery: 3x1 102mm Dual Purpose
AA Defences: 3x1 102mm Dual Purpose, 4x1 QF 76mm 20 cwt Mk.1, 40mm 'Pom Poms'
Torpedoes: 4x2 533mm
Speed: 30 knots

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Tier 6 - HMS York (York Class Heavy Cruiser) Commisioned: 1930. The Lead ship of her class and Exeter's sister ship. She may not have had any 
epic battles like the Exeter had, but she took part in the Norwegian Campaign and escorted convoys in the Atlantic ocean. 

Displacement: 10,350tons
Length: 160m
Beam: 17m
Draught: 5.2m
Armor
Main Belt: 76mm
Upper Belt: 25mm
Upper Deck: 31-38mm
Main Deck: 31-38mm
Turrets: 25-63mm
Bulkheads: 25-63mm
Magazines: 25-102mm
Armament
Main Battery: 3x2 203mm
Secondary Battery: 4x1 102mm Dual Purpose
AA Defences: 4x1 102mm Dual Purpose, L/50 Mk.III 12.7mm
Torpedoes: 2x3 533mm
Speed: 32.2 knots

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Tier 7 Premium HMS Exeter (York Class) Commisioned: 1931. York's Sister ship was well know for her battle 
against the Graf Spee along with the HMS Ajax and Achillies. Although she recieved heavy damage, she was still 
sea worthy and was able to make it to Port Stanley under her own power.

Displacement: 10,660tons
Length: 175.3m
Beam: 17.78m
Draught: 5.2m
Armor
Waterline Belt: 76mm
Upper Deck: 38mm
Main Deck: 38mm
Turrets: 25mm
Barbettes: 25mm
Bulkheads: 111mm
Magazines: 76-140mm
Armament
Main Battery: 3x2 203mm
Secondary Battery: 4x1 102mm Dual Purpose
AA Defences: 4x1 102mm Dual Purpose, 2x4 'Pom Poms' 40mm
Torpedoes: 2x3 533mm
Speed: 32 knots

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Tier 7 - HMS Cumberland (County Class Heavy Cruiser - Kent Group) Commisioned: 1929. A Kent-Group Heavy Cruiser who spent most of her war
career in the south atlantic and escorting arctic convoys. She arrived at the River Plate to patrol the port along with the Achillies, Ajax and the heavily 
damaged Exeter, preventing the Graf Spee from leaving the port.

Tier 7 - HMS Cumberland (County Class Heavy Cruiser - Kent Group) Commisioned: 1929. A Kent-Group Heavy Cruiser who spent most of her war
career in the south atlantic and escorting arctic convoys. She arrived at the River Plate to patrol the port along with the Achillies, Ajax and the heavily 
damaged Exeter, preventing the Graf Spee from leaving the port.

Displacement: 13,670tons
Length: 190m
Beam: 20.80m
Draught: 4.95m
Armor
Main Belt: 114mm
Upper Belt: 25mm
Upper Deck: 35-38mm
Main Deck: 35-38mm
Turrets: 25mm
Bulkheads: 25mm
Magazines: 25-102mm
Armament
Main Battery: 4x2 203mm
Secondary Battery: 4x1 102mm Dual Purpose
AA Defences: 4x1 102mm Dual Purpose, 4x1 2 pounder 40mm 'Pom Poms', 2x4 12.7mm MG quadruple guns.
Torpedoes: 2x3 533mm
Speed: 31.5 knots

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Tier 8 - HMS London (County Class Heavy Cruiser - London Group) Commisioned: 1929. This London Subclass cruiser took part in the pursuit of 
Battleship Bismarck. Apart from that, she operated off the South African coast and joined the Eastern Fleet for the rest of the War.

Displacement: 13,315tons
Length: 193m
Beam: 20m
Draught: 6.4m
Armor
Main Belt: 25mm
Upper Belt: 25mm
Upper Deck: 35-38mm
Main Deck: 35-38mm
Turrets: 25mm
Bulkheads: 25mm
Magazines: 51-111mm
Armament
Main Battery: 4x2 203mm
Secondary Battery: 4x1 102mm Dual Purpose
AA Defences: 4x1 102mm Dual Purpose, 4x1 2 pounder 40mm 'Pom Poms', 8x4 12.7mm QF L/50 Mk.III
Torpedoes: 2x4 533mm
Speed: 32 knots

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Tier 8 Premium HMS Suffolk (County Class - Kent Group) Commisioned: 1928. A Heavy Cruiser known for her
role in spotting the Battleship Bismarck throught the Denmark strait. Later on she would be one of a dozen 
British ships to participate in the Battleship sinking.

Displacement: 13,670tons
Length: 190m
Beam: 20.8m
Draught: 4.95m
Armor
Main Belt: 114mm
Upper Belt: 25mm
Upper Deck: 31-38mm
Main Deck: 31-38mm
Turrets: 25mm
Bulkheads: 25mm
Magazines: 25-102mm
Armament
Main Battery: 4x2 203mm
Secondary Battery: 6x1 102mm Dual Purpose
AA Defences: 6x1 102mm Dual Purpose, 2x4 'Pom Poms' 40mm, L/50 Mk.III 12.7mm
Torpedoes: 2x3 533mm
Speed: 31 knots

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Tier 9 - HMS Hawke (Admiral Class Design 1941) One of the last Heavy Cruiser designs proposed for the Royal Navy, Four versions of the ship were
put forward with the heaviest being version II. The project was ultimately cancelled due to the course of the war.

Displacement: 13,850tons
Length: 204.2m
Beam: 24.4m
Draught: 6.86m
Armor
Main Belt: 102-120mm
Upper Belt: 89mm
Upper Deck: 50mm
Main Deck: 40mm
Turrets: 25-170mm
Bulkheads: 50mm
Magazines: 76-120mm
Armament
Main Battery: 3x3 203mm
Secondary Battery: 8x2 114mm Dual Purpose
AA Defences: 8x2 114mm Dual Purpose, 5x8 40mm 'Pom Poms'
Torpedoes: 2x3 533mm
Speed: 32.2 knots

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Tier 10 - HMS Churchill (Churchill Class Design late 30- early 40s) A Heavy Cruiser design proposed by Winston Churchill, A Cruiser with 9 inch main
guns and armor to withstand 8 inch shells. The project soon became abandoned as the focus was more on Aircraft Carriers at the time of the war, also
the design proved too large and expensive to be built.

Displacement: 18,500tons
Length: 220m
Beam: 25.6m
Draught: 7.3m
Armor
Main Belt: 177mm
Upper Belt: 102mm
Upper Deck: 50mm
Main Deck: 50mm
Turrets: 102-203mm
Armament
Main Battery: (Turret Module A 3x3 203mm), (Turret Module B 3x4 234mm)
Secondary Battery: 6x2 114mm Dual Purpose
AA Defences: 6x2 114mm Dual Purpose, 4x8 40mm guns
Torpedoes: 2x4 533mm
Speed: 33 knots 

 

 

[fumtu]

1 minute ago, TicoXotaR said:

Tier 6 - HMS Hawkins (Hawkins Class Heavy Cruiser)

 

Hawkins is T5 material.

 

1 minute ago, TicoXotaR said:

Tier 6 or 7 Premium HMS Tiger (Tiger Class Cruiser)

 

HMS Tiger is a light cruiser. Still even with just four main guns, no torps, she seems quite underpowered, no matter that her guns have great RoF. IMO Tiger is not suitable to the game. Definitely not at T6 or T7.

 

1 minute ago, TicoXotaR said:

Tier 7 - HMS London (County Class Heavy Cruiser - London Group)

 

County class should be T7, but HMS London could easily be T8, either premium or silver ship.

 

1 minute ago, TicoXotaR said:

Tier 7 Premium HMS Exeter (York Class)

 

Put it tier lower and she could be fine.

 

1 minute ago, TicoXotaR said:

Tier 8 - HMS York (York Class Heavy Cruiser)

 

What? Are you serious? HMS York could be T6, nothing more than that. T8 is waaaay out of her league.

 

1 minute ago, TicoXotaR said:

Tier 8 Premium HMS Suffolk (County Class - Kent Group)

 

I think that HMS London is better suited to be T8 premium but if properly balanced HMS Suffolk could be T8 but I would prefer her at T7.  

 

 

[Seiranko]

Yeah, Hawkins at T5, York at T6, Counties for T7 and T8 would make most sense. Also, are the guns on Churchill supposed to be a strict upgrade?

[ImperialAdmiral]

HMS Churchill would be a really interesting ship.

[invicta2012]

 

1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

Also, are the guns on Churchill supposed to be a strict upgrade?

I don't think anyone knows, tbh. I'm sure someone at the Admiralty was almost looking at ammunition stocks and wondering if he could use up all those 9.2 inch shells that had been sitting around since WW1. Quite what the guns would have been... who knows? There are definite versions of a Mk X 8" gun for a heavy cruiser, and that should probably be the base for the line (which goes Hawkins / Kent (Exeter) / London / Surrey / ? / ?)

 

Aren't the Hawke and Churchill "alt universe" ships, though? Lovely designs but completely made up?

[Seiranko]

2 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

 

I don't think anyone knows, tbh. I'm sure someone at the Admiralty was almost looking at ammunition stocks and wondering if he could use up all those 9.2 inch shells that had been sitting around since WW1. Quite what the guns would have been... who knows? There are definite versions of a Mk X 8" gun for a heavy cruiser, and that should probably be the base for the line (which goes Hawkins / Kent (Exeter) / London / Surrey / ? / ?)

 

Aren't the Hawke and Churchill "alt universe" ships, though? Lovely designs but completely made up?

I meant, the Hawkins as proposed has a choice of 3x3 and 3x4. Unlike many other module choices at T10, I don't see the reason to go 3x3 if you could go 3x4.

[fumtu]

15 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I meant, the Hawkins as proposed has a choice of 3x3 and 3x4. Unlike many other module choices at T10, I don't see the reason to go 3x3 if you could go 3x4.

 

I think you meant a Churchill with two choices, 3x3 and 3x4. Not sure where he get 3x4 option, all I could find is 3x3 9.2inch proposals. There is good thread on NA forum about some studies for future heavy cruisers

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/138046-british-heavy-cruiser-design-notes/

 

 

[Centurion_1711]

@fumtu got the list bang on. Don't know why Tiger is listed in a heavy cruiser line, that would be better for an AA cruiser line (if there is a point for one of them)

I've seen proposals that put London at T8, though the RN need a premium T7 cruiser now that Belfast isn't up for sale. Though perhaps one of the other Counties could do there.

Those 9.2" guns on Churchill would be strange, what barrel length do they use? If the barrels are 50 calibres long, then the velocity is a spicy 881m/s. This should make the guns pretty formidable in the anti-cruiser role. I think that BB's may be a step too far though. Especially if they implement old, less streamlined shells. I think the most streamlined shells are 4crh, which to put that into perspective the old shells for the 15"/42 were 4crh, later upgraded to the longer, pointier 5/10crh shells. They could be quite draggy, which may make long range work a problem.

[philjd]

Maybe relevant - http://www.avalanchepress.com/ZRNCruiser1.php

[thiextar]

Yes, for the sole purpose that the anti-air guns are called "pom pom"

[Seiranko]

21 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Yes, for the sole purpose that the anti-air guns are called "pom pom"

You already get those on the other RN ships.

[Centurion_1711]

Pom poms are called something like 40mm 2-pounder AA guns in game, but the quad and 8-barrel mounts are the famous pom poms. The lack range sadly, making them a bit of a self defence AA weapon only.

[Historynerd]

To be completely honest, if any County-class cruiser turns out as Tier 8, while the likes of Algérie and Zara (it's not a given, but it's not unlikely) are kept at Tier 7, I'd be most disappointed. In my opinion, the Surrey-class project is a much better option.

 

 

[fumtu]

@TicoXotaR HMS Exeter is still to high, she should be at T6, not T7.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

Wargaming could become "York-heavy" at this rate. Let's go the whole way and introduce USS Yorktown as well.

I look forward to games with HMS York, HMS Duke of York, KM Yorck, USS New York and USS Yorktown.

 

And Jingles would still call all of them "Aobas"! 

[Soemba]

Just took a look at the guns, but god damn they are awful compared to the German 203mm guns. Less muzzle velocity, lower shell weight and less range. So lets hope the T8 suggested here doesnt turn out to be T8. Less penetrating power and floaty shells, that doesnt bode well. Reload i couldnt seem to find. German ones are at 4-5 rounds per minute in bigger turrets so i would guess this would be quite similar.

But then the IJN guns look similar though but the shells on the mk2 (Takao) are heavier. Myoko mk1 seems to be quite similar so the Myoko and Furutake guns.

 

But then maybe some secret gun we never seen yet on the T9?

 

German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_8_inch_Mk_VIII_naval_gun

UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20.3_cm_SK_C/34_naval_gun

IJN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_cm/50_3rd_Year_Type_naval_gun

[fumtu]

30 minutes ago, Soemba said:

Just took a look at the guns, but god damn they are awful compared to the German 203mm guns. Less muzzle velocity, lower shell weight and less range. So lets hope the T8 suggested here doesnt turn out to be T8. Less penetrating power and floaty shells, that doesnt bode well. Reload i couldnt seem to find. German ones are at 4-5 rounds per minute in bigger turrets so i would guess this would be quite similar.

But then the IJN guns look similar though but the shells on the mk2 (Takao) are heavier. Myoko mk1 seems to be quite similar so the Myoko and Furutake guns.

 

But then maybe some secret gun we never seen yet on the T9?

 

German https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_8_inch_Mk_VIII_naval_gun

UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20.3_cm_SK_C/34_naval_gun

IJN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_cm/50_3rd_Year_Type_naval_gun

 

T9 should use 8"/50 (20.3 cm) Mk IX/X instead of Mk VIII. Muzzle velocity would be even worse, 814 mps, but SAPC would be much heavier, 131.5 kg instead of 116kg. But I wouldn't be surprised if RN CAs end as HE cruisers only.  

[Centurion_1711]

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_8-55_mk9.php

This is a new gun that was proposed for WWII heavy cruiser projects, but none were ever made. It has a lower muzzle velocity to the Japanese 8" gun (816m/s compared to 840m/s, but the shells weighed 131kg. The Japanese shells were 125kg, so this is probably a net improvement over these. Also, the bursting charge for the HE round is larger than the IJN gun: the Japanese 8" HE round has a approx 8kg burster, while the British shell uses a 10kg burster. But I don't think WG will make the Heavies a line of HE spammers.

I don't know how streamlined the round will be, Navweaps only states that a new round that was longer and heavier would be used in the new 8" gun. Hopefully its drag figure isn't too bad then.

 

Chances are that the line will have the same sort of AP characteristics as the RN light cruisers, making them good for farming BB superstructures and doing reliable damage to cruisers (in theory). Whether the line gets a HE round is up to them.

 

EDIT: looks like Fumtu beat me to it by a few seconds. Oh well...

[TicoXotaR]

Yes, it's the same format for the British Light Cruisers from The Tier 2 Weymouth to the Tier 10 Minotaur. 

[TicoXotaR]

18 hours ago, fumtu said:

 

I think you meant a Churchill with two choices, 3x3 and 3x4. Not sure where he get 3x4 option, all I could find is 3x3 9.2inch proposals. There is good thread on NA forum about some studies for future heavy cruisers

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/138046-british-heavy-cruiser-design-notes/

 

 

The design did feature the 3x4 when first proposed. However i thought that players could earn the 234mm (9.2inch) as a Turret B module. 

[Yedwy]

19 hours ago, fumtu said:

 But I wouldn't be surprised if RN CAs end as HE cruisers only.  

Would be much nicer to have them dispense sAP, would make them similar to CL line (as "national flavour") let them have say - DCP + 1 base charge of RN super heal RP, + 2-3 base charges of RN dd smoke (short and fast reloading) with a bit less smoke bloom for caliber (exept churchil top guns) + 2-3 base charges of DFAA (and no hydro option) to let them be sort of mid range support ships, if we dont need something in this hame its more long range HE spammers, they can slap HE on premiums if needbe but without heal or smoke as a tradeoff

[fumtu]

2 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Would be much nicer to have them dispense sAP, would make them similar to CL line (as "national flavour") let them have say - DCP + 1 base charge of RN super heal RP, + 2-3 base charges of RN dd smoke (short and fast reloading) with a bit less smoke bloom for caliber (exept churchil top guns) + 2-3 base charges of DFAA (and no hydro option) to let them be sort of mid range support ships, if we dont need something in this hame its more long range HE spammers

 

I don't know ... I personally would prefer both SAP and HE. RN 8inch guns didn't have fast reload so just SAP wouldn't work because when target angle you have problem with both low DPM and ineffective ammo due angling. If they give them smoke that would probably mean some wonky armour. I would rather have standard CAs, SAP with improved angles and HE, decent RoF. Also they wouldn't be able to use smoke on the same way as CLs as smoke firing penalty is larger for 203mm guns and if T10 ends with 9.2inch guns and quite big, smoke would be pointless. Consumable wise, DAA, Hydro or Radar, give them what they need to have to be balanced.

 

T9 and T10, maybe even T8 would be paper ships and WG will have a lot of freedom to find some sort of unique flavor for them. Considering all three RN lines we got so far I'm think that we could get another quite gimmicky RN line.

[JaiFoh]

56 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Would be much nicer to have them dispense sAP, would make them similar to CL line (as "national flavour") let them have say - DCP + 1 base charge of RN super heal RP, + 2-3 base charges of RN dd smoke (short and fast reloading) with a bit less smoke bloom for caliber (exept churchil top guns) + 2-3 base charges of DFAA (and no hydro option) to let them be sort of mid range support ships, if we dont need something in this hame its more long range HE spammers, they can slap HE on premiums if needbe but without heal or smoke as a tradeoff

I agree with the line being
T5 = Hawkins Class

T6= York Class (Exeter Premium)
T7= County Class (Kent Sub class)
T8 = County Class (London Refit)
T9= Early War Heavy Cruiser Design
T10= Late War Heavy Cruiser Design

as for how i feel that they should play, i like the thinking of a style of player similar to the Kutuzov, sit at range and smoke and rain fire down at mid range, so give them similar range to the American Heavy Cruisers. 

 

[fumtu]

14 minutes ago, JaiFoh said:

as for how i feel that they should play, i like the thinking of a style of player similar to the Kutuzov, sit at range and smoke and rain fire down at mid range, so give them similar range to the American Heavy Cruisers.

 

Smoke shooting detection range is calculated by using gun caliber and ship detection range on the sea. With 152mm guns Kutuzov has 7.7km smoke shooting detection penalty. RN CAs with 8inch and possible 9.2inch guns and probably similar detection range would have way worse penalty. If this goes up to 9-10 km then smoke is pointless. Also muzzle velocity is low and shell should have US style rainbow arcs, not nearly as good as Kutuzov. So shooting distant things won't be that easy. I don't think that they should have smoke at all. They are heavy cruisers and considering changes that WG announced about more CAs and CLs distinction, I don't think that RN CAs should mimic their lighter sisters.

[LastButterfly]

On 12/10/2018 at 9:51 PM, fumtu said:

Not sure where he get 3x4 option, all I could find is 3x3 9.2inch proposals.

If I'm not mistaken it should be here :