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Von_Snuff

Match Making suck! and this is what I think about it!

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First of all I know this topic probably have endless of threads on this forum, And there is no need for another topic on it!
I dissagree! This issue need lots of focus so something will be done about it!

 

The problem I have with  MM(Match Making) atm, is that it 90% of the time seems to put together a team that wipes and one that steam rolls.

It not just me either, you see this on stream and youtube also! This is NOT fun WG! Its not fun when  your team wipes and even if your the best player you cannot do much when you get focused because there is no one left after 5 min.
Its also not fun to be on the steam rolling team, especially if your in a slow BB. But its not fun to steamroll.

 

Can a solution be to use player statistics along with ship tiers?
After MM is done, why not run a filter, switching players to also do a balance for skill? og win / loose ratio or anyother set of factors ?

Also if you made a user choice on what filter to use, you could get great data on what works or don't. As it is now It seems like a big risk for you to change the formula. Just make it an option.

Or even let people decide if they want to be put ont teams with arggressive players or defensive even. I love to play agressive but it doesnt work with a team of defensive players all lemminging up in  the rear.
But I also have a few friends that hates to play agressively. and just wants to huddle up and stay cozy. Or ambush. I bet players would have a lot mor fun if we could set our prefrences and let MM take that into consideration if possible.
 

I really loved this game, but as it is now, It can take days between getting a enjoyable match.
I'm atleast done spending money on this untill something is done!

Br. A very frustrated player.

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[TRAV]
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How would you rate skill?

Winrate? Total? Per ship? In the last month? What after the skillbased matchmaker nearly equalized all our winrates?

Damage dealt? Total? Per ship? By tier played? By shiptype played?

 

If you suggest a skillbased matchmaking that would fit your liking, I'm sure you have some thought about that. You will also be able to answer how it will effect matchmaking time if the MM has to check the database for various factors first, or won't you?

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[OKKA]
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what skill based factor or combination to use, is beyond my knowledge. As you point out, its complex at the least.

Thats why I suggest, multiple filters to test and find out. and I only think you should reshuffle the teams on by one.

Say you got a Gneisenau  vs a Nelson,  the nelson player has better stats. next the hipper versus the Baltimore,  the baltimore has better stats so you switch the hipper and baltimore:

Or atleat balance the radars!

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[OKKA]
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ColonelPete

 I suggest making a testing / experimental mode,  I dont belive in plain denial.

And I dont think I will eliminate the steam rolling, but even if it got down by 10 - 20 % I would mark it as a sucess!

Maybe we could discuss whats a wipe / steamroll . Whats the breaking point ? any defenitions WG can use to extrapolate statistics?

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The thing that really makes me not believe that MM is random is when you get 10-15 battles in a row where your team DDs are all dead in 4 minutes, while enemy DDs play perfectly well. If it does not behave random, it probably is not random.

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[OM]
Beta Tester, WoWs Wiki Team
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Vor 15 Minuten, Von_Snuff sagte:

Say you got a Gneisenau  vs a Nelson,  the nelson player has better stats. next the hipper versus the Baltimore,  the baltimore has better stats so you switch the hipper and baltimore:

I wouldn't want all the bad players in my team just because I'm good :fish_nerv:

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3 ore fa, KHETTIFER ha scritto:

*edited*

 

Is that why it's a game that's been active for over 8 years, still has a huge playerbase, and one of the most lucrative F2P of the past decade?

 

 

Skill based MM was tried in Armored Warfare.
It was catastrophic. Truly. 
Every single one of your teams had potatoes, which means every single battle was determined by who loses the most potatoes the quickest.
EVERY.
SINGLE.
BATTLE.

Imagine every single battle where you're struggling to not lose half of your players in the first minutes.
That's with skill based MM would bring.

 

No thank you.
I'd rather keep potatoes in the MM pool, put the ones that downright sabotage teams in coop, and have comprehensive (perhaps even mandatory) tutorials ingame to raise the bar from the hilariously immense depth it is now.

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[NWP]
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33 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

I wouldn't want all the bad players in my team just because I'm good :fish_nerv:

 

This :cap_old:

45% Player are just so much worse than 50%.

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[OKKA]
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Seems to me that every team has potatoes. and even with a skill filter ontop you would get that, but placing all the potatos in the same flank, thats MM's fault, and your team will lose if A) the other team doesnt have all their potatos bunched together.

 

And if your content with MM, thats great for you, I'm not! and im not asking them to break it for you, but give me and the likes options!

 

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Modder
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@Von_Snuff

 

(1)

Clan Wars are a prime example of balanced match setups as well as in ships as in skill of the players.

Please show, that in Clan Battles no steam roll victories occur, and further show why they could not occur because of the (almost) perfect match balance.

 

(2)

Then please be so kind and show at some examples how your suggestion of a somehow skill balance, will improve the quality of random battles? State why do you think that these are improvements and show that this is a opinion of a majority of the player base!

 

(3)

Elaborate the aims of random battles! What does the players want? And on what is your answer based upon?

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[OKKA]
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Short : fun, I want to have fun, I no hardcore Esport og clan player, I want to play 5 - 15 battles a day and have fun, So far most of you seems like salty veterans tbh. No offense,

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[PK11]
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I just figured it out. It is so simple, why didn't I see it before?

 

We ditch the idea of skill based MM for ... drum roll... KARMA based MM. Put together 24 people. The 12 with the highest Karma form one team. This would also finally bring some sense to the reporting system.

Two problems solved in one go. You can all thank me for this magnificent solution by hitting the funny button in the lower right corner.

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[CATS]
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7 minutes ago, Von_Snuff said:

Short : fun, I want to have fun, I no hardcore Esport og clan player, I want to play 5 - 15 battles a day and have fun, So far most of you seems like salty veterans tbh. No offense,

Most veterans do not complain about the MM....

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1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

This :cap_old:

45% Player are just so much worse than 50%.

Try below 40% mate (and the guy I'm talking about had 8,5k games, not exactly just a statistical fluke).

 

I don't even know how people could get that low without actively trying to lose. I've seen stats of bot accounts (and yes, 50+ games per day, every day, for months on end is what I'd call sufficient indication on the account being a bot and unless I misremember, the account incidentally stopped playing after WG mentioned a banwave against botting) with better average winrate ...

 

I don't think any MM should be as cruel as to intentionally burden a team with such a player, better to stick with random MM and let MM keep its plausible deniability.

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Because all of the veterans do not what to have fun? Are they forced to play?

 

And you still fail to show how skill balance will bring this "fun" to the games nowadays?

 

Did you ever examine your games? There is a small fine tool called mxStat, where you can check after your match the setup of both teams (accountwise and shipwise). Do you want to know the terrifying truth?! Almost all of the matches are within a small 2% WR difference in teams. But despite that, steamrolls still occur! This experience shows clearly that a somehow forced skilled-MM will change nothing at all!

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11 minutes ago, Von_Snuff said:

Short : fun, I want to have fun, I no hardcore Esport og clan player, I want to play 5 - 15 battles a day and have fun, So far most of you seems like salty veterans tbh. No offense,

 

And to you, have matchmaking ranked according to skill would be casual rathing than competitive....how?

You're arguing for the opposite of what you just claimed....
I suggest you make up your mind and clearly define what you seek because making demands.

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1 minute ago, Donnerturm said:

I just figured it out. It is so simple, why didn't I see it before?

 

We ditch the idea of skill based MM for ... drum roll... KARMA based MM. Put together 24 people. The 12 with the highest Karma form one team. This would also finally bring some sense to the reporting system.

Two problems solved in one go. You can all thank me for this magnificent solution by hitting the funny button in the lower right corner.

Considering how arbitrarily you get reported by some people or how people can just feed one another compliments, this would arguably be even worse.

Wouldn't give a system like that more than 24hours until trolls figured out they could "punish" other players with worse MM by throwing reports around just to spite them. On the other hand there's little to stop cronyism from running rampant once the better MM bracket starts cliqueing (is that a word? It is now ...) up and people compliment one another simply because they know each other.

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[OKKA]
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1 ora fa, principat121 ha scritto:

 Almost all of the matches are within a small 2% WR difference in teams.

This is interesting, can you please link to to this.

I still dont think Winrate is a factor  in this,  I can be on the wnning team even as a potato,

Thats statistic.  If I get 50% wipes, and 50% steamrolls on my teams its still not fun. Even if thats "balanced"

 

Also,  reading stats, I'm a below average player ;) so I cannot carry teams either , I figure most of you discussing this topic can to some degree impact the match more.

 

hmmm... So I have to befriends a few god tier  players that can carry me! Eureka!

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[NWP]
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I do feel the amount of steamrolls keeps increasing. I can't even remember the last time I had a close game. Most are determined after 5 or so minutes.

And those games aren't fun. Not for the losing team but also not for the winning team.

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Modder
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2 minutes ago, Von_Snuff said:

so I cannot carry teams either

And THAT is the true root of this "problem" or thread. You cannot tip balanced matches in your teams favour. You rely on your teammates to do so. No offence, but your suggested "improvement" would not change anything in that matter.

 

and here you find the tool MXSTAT

 

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[PK11]
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Vor 39 Minuten, Aotearas sagte:

...

And I tried really hard to give a clue by inserting the word "funny". Too subtile, @Aotearas? To get mocked by a German about humour gives you, I am afraid, -1 Karma.

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1 minute ago, Donnerturm said:

And I tried really hard to give a clue by inserting the word "funny". Too subtile, @Aotearas? To get mocked by a German about humour gives you, I am afraid, -1 Karma.

Oh, I was well aware that it wasn't a serious suggestion. Nontheless I wanted to comment because stuff like that has been suggested many times already.

 

Also, I'm german as well so I don't get -1 karma from you. I have a wall to prevent that!

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I would also gladly welcome some sort of skillbased matchmaking. It would hopefully remove all the "bots" in high tiers with no camos and no flags who sail directly into a suicide which you see with a higher frequency now than ever before.

An idea of how you could do that would be to use a bracket system such as the one in clanbattles or another example in Starcraft 2. I would also rather base this on average xp or personal rating other than winrate as you can severly inflate your winrate by playing OP ships in low tiers.

You wouldnt need that many brackets either, maybe 3 or 4 different leagues you would progress into after you gain a certain amount of PR. This would both make random battles far more fun to play as you have something to work towards and at the same time maybe be less frustrated by losing because of your teammates blindly suiciding.

The only downside as far as I can see is that queue times would be longer, especially in higher brackets. Althou I would glady wait a few minutes if it means a good fair battle instead of what we have now.

 

Also as an avid CB player. CB games are way way better balanced and not even remotely as often steamrolls. Infact steamrolls are very rare. 

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