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Spotting and XP

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I'm new to the game. I've played mainly Tanks and a bit of Planes.

 

In Tanks you get rewarded for spotting towards gun marks and XP. Spotting is a really valuable team tactic and I try to do this with my DD's in particular. I have had relatively high spot games at tier 4, 5 and 6 0f 30k-50k and still been in the bottom of the team sheet.

 

Is this a known issue and will be addressed? Like I say I am new but it irks me that I unselfishly provide team support and do not get rewarded. The scoreboard should reflect good play.

 

Any comments?

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It's not an issue, it's working as intended (whether that intent is good is a different matter ofcourse). Spotting does get rewarded, just not as much as you're used to from Tanks.

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I agree, thats the way it should be.

That being said, WG does only focus on damage sadly.

 

So spotting is nice for winning games, but you dont get the rewards for that. Your teammates do for dealing damage.

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Here's something for you:

 

Go to Settings > Controls and tick the box "Counter for damage upon your spotting" bottom-right.

 

For me this value is always quite low, like a 3-5k, so even though you can be the first to spot an enemy ship and get a ribbon the counter never clocks up.

 

I'm only guessing but it might be for indirect damage, i.e. if your team mate has direct line of sight then it doesn't count. Would be nice if a good player could clarify the mechanism for us?

 

Edit: so I did my own research for my own curiosity as well. Found this:

 

Quote

Spotting damage is damage dealt by one ship to the target that is being scouted by another ship. E.g. if you turn on Radar and spot a DD in smoke, and your ally shoots him, you will get a reward, because without you, your ally wouldn't see this DD. Another example - if you are scouting on front line with your DD, you will probably spot some enemies, and if your team manage to deal some damage to them, you will get bonuses as well, because without your help this wouldn't happen.

Important addition: if you are spotting, and your friendly DD is spotting, you both get EQUAL bonuses, so it's nice to scout with some buddies.

 

...if the shooter can see the target without your help, you don't get a bonus for the damage dealt in this state.

My italics.

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19 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

Here's something for you:

 

Go to Settings > Controls and tick the box "Counter for damage upon your spotting" bottom-right.

 

For me this value is always quite low, like a 3-5k, so even though you can be the first to spot an enemy ship and get a ribbon the counter never clocks up.

 

I'm only guessing but it might be for indirect damage, i.e. if your team mate has direct line of sight then it doesn't count. Would be nice if a good player could clarify the mechanism for us?

 

If the one shooting the target is spotting himself, then noone gets spotting damage.

F.e. a BB just fired his guns and is visible to another BB with LoS -> no spotting damage for you even if you are closer.

However if you are the only one spotting the BB, and you have a Cruiser behind an island, then you will get the spotting damage.

 

Im not entirely sure how it is, when, lets say, 2 DDs are both spotting one BB and someone deals damage to him who has no LoS. Both? The closer one? Or the first one to spot him (i guess this one).

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34 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

Here's something for you:

 

Go to Settings > Controls and tick the box "Counter for damage upon your spotting" bottom-right.

 

For me this value is always quite low, like a 3-5k, so even though you can be the first to spot an enemy ship and get a ribbon the counter never clocks up.

 

I'm only guessing but it might be for indirect damage, i.e. if your team mate has direct line of sight then it doesn't count. Would be nice if a good player could clarify the mechanism for us?

 

10 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

If the one shooting the target is spotting himself, then noone gets spotting damage.

F.e. a BB just fired his guns and is visible to another BB with LoS -> no spotting damage for you even if you are closer.

However if you are the only one spotting the BB, and you have a Cruiser behind an island, then you will get the spotting damage.

 

Im not entirely sure how it is, when, lets say, 2 DDs are both spotting one BB and someone deals damage to him who has no LoS. Both? The closer one? Or the first one to spot him (i guess this one).

Here is a link to a quite nice, but heavy to read, guide to spotting XP http://shipcomrade.com/?p=875

 

The 2DD's in the example would get shared XP, but the whole system is quite a mess starting from what ship you are in, factoring in on how much spotting XP you get.

And the fact I couldn't get this info from WoWS wiki is just a giant facepalm in WG direction :fish_palm:

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5 ore fa, DFens_666 ha scritto:

Im not entirely sure how it is, when, lets say, 2 DDs are both spotting one BB and someone deals damage to him who has no LoS. Both? The closer one? Or the first one to spot him (i guess this one).

 

From what I understand, both DD's will get equal the BB's damage in spotting damage.

 

5 ore fa, Clean ha scritto:

How much XP does one earn for spotting in relation to actual damage?

 

In my opinion, spotting and tanking damage is about as rewarding XP wise as wearing soiled underpants. It's all about the damage, with maybe a bonus boost from cap capture/defence.

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2 minutes ago, Clean said:

How much XP does one earn for spotting in relation to actual damage?

Unfortunately that's unkown.

 

We only know very little about how XP is put together:

 

- Damage done yields XP

- Damage done is calculated percentage wise (e.g. 50% damage to a destroyer yield the same XP as 50% damage done to a battleship, assuming both are of the same tier)

- Damage done to higher tier ships yields more XP

- Damage done to lower tier ships yields you less XP

- Capping in domination and epicenter mode acts as a XP multiplier (e.g. did some damage and capped can yield better results than doing a lot of damamge but didn't cap anything yourself), this includes all capping related tasks (defending, contributed to capping).

- Shooting down planes is also a XP multiplier (lots of planes shot down yield high XP results)

- Spotting (and tanking) yield very little XP compared to the points listed above

 

 

NOTE: This is all concluded from observation and discussion among other forumites. WG/Lesta doesn't want to disclose the actual values in fear of players abusing it.

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5 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Unfortunately that's unkown.

 

We only know very little about how XP is put together:

 

- Damage done yields XP

- Damage done is calculated percentage wise (e.g. 50% damage to a destroyer yield the same XP as 50% damage done to a battleship, assuming both are of the same tier)

- Damage done to higher tier ships yields more XP

- Damage done to lower tier ships yields you less XP

- Capping in domination and epicenter mode acts as a XP multiplier (e.g. did some damage and capped can yield better results than doing a lot of damamge but didn't cap anything yourself), this includes all capping related tasks (defending, contributed to capping).

- Shooting down planes is also a XP multiplier (lots of planes shot down yield high XP results)

- Spotting (and tanking) yield very little XP compared to the points listed above

 

 

NOTE: This is all concluded from observation and discussion among other forumites. WG/Lesta doesn't want to disclose the actual values in fear of players abusing it.

Perhaps WG should take note of this thread and clarify things or indeed change the ratio of XP earned. XP rewarded for good play helps the team not just the player. Player abuse seems like a weak excuse.

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2 minutes ago, Clean said:

Perhaps WG should take note of this thread and clarify things or indeed change the ratio of XP earned. XP rewarded for good play helps the team not just the player. Player abuse seems like a weak excuse.

Oh absolutely. The thing is: Good play is ... not the same to everybody. Some want to win, some just want to sail their ship over the seas. The current XP system rewards rather selfish play (doing damage) and that doesn't necessarilly translate into good play / a win.

 

E.g. I had a ton of wins in some of my DDs where I just stayed at the caps and maybe did damage to 1 1/2 enemy DDs in total. Damaging those translated more into a win, than ignoring the caps and hunting down three or four BBs (note: 150% of DD damage would be less than 300% of BB damage). 

 

And some players switch to a personal damage farming game play once they see that their team has unwinable odds (and I'd be lying if I hadn't done so in the past myself).

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3 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Oh absolutely. The thing is: Good play is ... not the same to everybody. Some want to win, some just want to sail their ship over the seas. The current XP system rewards rather selfish play (doing damage) and that doesn't necessarilly translate into good play / a win.

 

E.g. I had a ton of wins in some of my DDs where I just stayed at the caps and maybe did damage to 1 1/2 enemy DDs in total. Damaging those translated more into a win, than ignoring the caps and hunting down three or four BBs (note: 150% of DD damage would be less than 300% of BB damage). 

 

And some players switch to a personal damage farming game play once they see that their team has unwinable odds (and I'd be lying if I hadn't done so in the past myself).

I'm new and not very good. But I have common sense. I myself have capped and kited the enemy especially in Jap DDs. Your team wins and yet you can be in the bottom 3 of the scoreboard. Yet I have watched players hide at the back of the map not supporting the team but still coming top because they were forced into killing and defending themselves at the end. In my view at this early stage WG have the XP reward system unbalanced.

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1 minute ago, Clean said:

I'm new and not very good. But I have common sense. I myself have capped and kited the enemy especially in Jap DDs. Your team wins and yet you can be in the bottom 3 of the scoreboard. Yet I have watched players hide at the back of the map not supporting the team but still coming top because they were forced into killing and defending themselves at the end. In my view at this early stage WG have the XP reward system unbalanced.

Well, as you said, it doesn't take much to figure out how/what can translate into good gameplay and what not. 

 

Personally I don't care where I am on the scoreboard as long as I'm winning. If the system is designed as it currently is, than that's the way to do it (as in: Play to win != play to get most XP). But that doesn't mean I don't support any change regarding better XP for more team/win oriented gameplay. 

 

It's just hard to achieve by a system (imho).

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11 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Well, as you said, it doesn't take much to figure out how/what can translate into good gameplay and what not. 

 

Personally I don't care where I am on the scoreboard as long as I'm winning. If the system is designed as it currently is, than that's the way to do it (as in: Play to win != play to get most XP). But that doesn't mean I don't support any change regarding better XP for more team/win oriented gameplay. 

 

It's just hard to achieve by a system (imho).

Fair comment. Just had a game in my Podvoisky T5 DD. Got 2 assist caps 39k damage and 76k spot damage but no kills. I came 4th on the scoreboard. If I could view other players game details I would get a better understanding of how the XP reward system works. But like you I want to win first. I would be happy for others to see my in battle stats so they could see what I have or have not done.

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Also, spotting and tanking don't give any xp on their own (as well as capping). I remember capping and soon after being deleted by a (un-)fortunate torpedo without having done any damage, only some spotting damage and the cap. 0 XP.

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47 minutes ago, BruceRKF said:

Also, spotting and tanking don't give any xp on their own (as well as capping). I remember capping and soon after being deleted by a (un-)fortunate torpedo without having done any damage, only some spotting damage and the cap. 0 XP.

That must have been a bug, only players who are AFK the entire battle should get 0 xp.

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3 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

It's not an issue, it's working as intended (whether that intent is good is a different matter ofcourse). Spotting does get rewarded, just not as much as you're used to from Tanks.

"Just not as much" ... understatement of the year candidate :Smile_teethhappy:.

 

I also very much doubt it's working as intended (as in the intent was to reward players for team activities, i.e.: spotting in this case) considering how the system works (damage only counts if the ship is still spotted when taking damage and the way the game handles spotting priorities means even though you were the one that originally spotted the target, by the time any shells arrive someone else may already be the primary spotter if they moved close enough, or are using hydro/radar/airplanes).

 

The mechanics are there, but they "work" so haphazardly with rewards so miniscule that the actual design goal behind spotting damage has been well and truly missed.

 

Same for tanking potential damage, which is hilarious since it's pretty straightforward to get an accurate read on that, so really the only reason that isn't rewarded noticably is because WG simply isn't handing out any noticable amounts of rewards (credits/XP) for it, period.

 

 

 

The reward you get for doing such stuff is giving your team a better chance at winning. But actual, direct rewards in credits/XP are so few it's entirely negligible, you land one additional salvo of damage on the enemy team and will have gotten just as much if not more credits and XP for that action than spotting and tanking over the entire match.

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Random battles (and even ranked battles) are an individual selfish game.  Don't go pinning your hopes on getting high XP for doing a lot of spotting.  There are hundreds of different aims players can have when playing a game and getting the 'Victory' screen at the end of a battle is just one of them.  For some people it's the main aim, others don't care and just want to do damage and sink ships.  Is it stated somewhere that Random battles are a 'team' game?  Sure you have 11 other comrades whose general aim is aligned with yours (sink the 12 red ships and maybe cap), but you've often never met any of them before unless you are in a division (or wouldn't remember if you had anyway), you just get plonked together for one 20 minute game and most or all players also have a stack of individual combat missions, campaign tasks, event missions or whatever that will reward them for doing stuff, very little of which is usually related to a team goal of winning.  Then the game ends and the other 11 players go their own way.

Why people seem to feel it is a team game and that these other 11 people should care what each other or you (meaning anyone, not specifically the person asking this question) want from this one 20 minute game is a mystery to me.  Obviously at first glance it looks like it should be a team game, but it clearly isn't.  The only team mechanism is the chat, to which, usually fewer than 50% of the team contribute.  Less than that if we ignore those who just spam 'Good luck and fair seas'.  Even among those who contribute you don't exactly have time to come up with a great plan because the game is already underway and you know that even if you announce a really basic plan like 'A and B caps' two or 3 ships will sail off to C or the map border anyway.

 

Clan battles are the team element of the game, because you play with the same people many times and you (presumably) actually care about helping each other get a win and you can devise plans for maps in advance of games etc etc.  Random battles and ranked should just be viewed as an individual game in which the other 11 green ships may or may not be useful to you and each other.  If they are it is a bonus, if they aren't it's just normal.  If you expect more you'll be continually disappointed.

 

So sure, feel free to go spotting, but don't expect it to yield you anything much personally because the game doesn't work that way.  If you are the kind of player who is happier winning a game in which you did very little damage or killing ships than losing a game in which you did a lot then spotting is still obviously useful.  Just don't have expectations of it!

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Well I appreciate the comments on this thread. This community seems more intelligent, thoughtful and less toxic than the other two main games, planes and tanks. I don't see a feedback thread on this forum. Is there a moderator who can give some official insight into this and whether WG have any plans or desire to review the way XP is distributed? It appears to me that the majority of you see the value in it plus other things and that is not all about kills and damage.

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7 minutes ago, Clean said:

Well I appreciate the comments on this thread. This community seems more intelligent, thoughtful and less toxic than the other two main games, planes and tanks.

Well... you brought this on yourself. A well put opening post without any tinfoil hat theories or any blame that someone else is at fault. So yeah, people that are willing to help are plenty in here :) Thank you for opening statement.

7 minutes ago, Clean said:

I don't see a feedback thread on this forum. Is there a moderator who can give some official insight into this and whether WG have any plans or desire to review the way XP is distributed? It appears to me that the majority of you see the value in it plus other things and that is not all about kills and damage.

There's multiple.

 

1. You can always work out the "Suggestions Thread". So in your case suggesting anything regarding a more transparent XP distirbuting system

2. For each patch there's a section in the forums where you can pass feedback for the latest patch to the devs. So maybe (if you want and have the time) chech out the public test server and see if anything regarding XP changes for any upcoming patch

 

3. Every once in a while there's a QnA with the devs. However this takes place mostly on reddit. So either you're active there or - when one comes up - you can ask somebody else to forward your question.

 

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Vor 3 Stunden, Clean sagte:

...Yet I have watched players hide at the back of the map not supporting the team but still coming top because they were forced into killing and defending themselves at the end. In my view at this early stage WG have the XP reward system unbalanced.

This particular point leads to a great discussion when it comes to Ranked Battles (currently not available) as the top XP player of the losing team will keep his star.

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There's also a misconception that attacking is somehow more valuable than defending.  Obviously you have to be defending something though so it is more pertinent in Standard battles than Domination.  Almost every game in Standard battle ships go sailing off really wide on the flanks despite the fact that the two key points of the game are right in the centre, one to attack and one to defend.  If it is domination mode then of course sitting at the back is not much use, but in Standard battles it is a lot more intelligent than wandering off to the flanks of the map so getting XP for defending rather than yolo'ing and dying is fine by me.

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2 hours ago, Gleb_Reawer said:

That must have been a bug, only players who are AFK the entire battle should get 0 xp.

It's been a while (just before they introduced displaying spotting and tanking in the UI), but I definitely got no xp despite a solo cap. Same with shooting down planes, got a CTD, when I loaded back in, my ship was under attack by planes and sunk shortly after. 6 planes shot down, 0 xp. I might have screenshots lying around somewhere. Gonna edit if I find them.

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39 minutes ago, BruceRKF said:

It's been a while (just before they introduced displaying spotting and tanking in the UI), but I definitely got no xp despite a solo cap. Same with shooting down planes, got a CTD, when I loaded back in, my ship was under attack by planes and sunk shortly after. 6 planes shot down, 0 xp. I might have screenshots lying around somewhere. Gonna edit if I find them.

I think if you do not move, the system registers you as AFK so you get 0 XP even if the AI shoots secondaries or aa.

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22 hours ago, Clean said:

How much XP does one earn for spotting in relation to actual damage?

I have tried to verify this by comparing games on the same ship with the same MM tier, kills and damage. 

Battles different by over 100k spotting damage resulted with variation of less than 5% base experience. Spotting damage is pretty much negligible, at least looking at rewards only.

 

As a side note - I understand this method has many flaws, but I'm too lazy to do a better test.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that spotting strongly affects games and should be rewarded more.

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