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Thracen

Izumo help, Is she actually good now or does she still suck?

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So the Izumo. Obviously she is worse than the Musashi, fine. Obviously she is meant to be a rough grind, fine. However what I don't understand is why her 410s seem to be the worst BB guns of any caliber I have ever shot above tier 6!!!

 

I would write a list of guns systems I would prefer on her but it would be quicker to list those I wouldn't. They seem less accurate than the americans, with less, pen, less alpha, less range and the flater arcs hurt more than help with the armour lay out of targets.

 

Below are my bb stats for ships in the same MM bracket. Do I just not know how to aim these particular guns? Any answers would be appreciated.

 

P.S. I have no trouble with any other stats or issues with the Izumo, I just think the guns are FAR worse than any others I have shot and certainly do not line up with being as high a caliber as 410.

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10 minutes ago, Thracen said:

They seem less accurate than the americans, with less, pen, less alpha, less range and the flater arcs hurt more than help with the armour lay out of targets.

In order...

dead wrong, dead wrong, maginally so, why would you want more than 22km of range plus Spotter plane anyway, and yeah kinda with all the underwater citadels on every BB and their mum these days but offset by the much better travel times the flat arcs give you.

 

Izumo guns are monstrously powerful tools. Get used to the crazy velocity and they'll serve you well. Treat them like USN orbital catapults, and they won't.

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Yeah that may be true, however it certainly doesn't feel that way. My frustration comes from how little damage I get when the guns do hit. Also you are saying these guns are accurate, my stats indicate I have a higher hit ratio on the freddy 27% to 30%. Obviously there is something wrong and your comment does nothing to help my issues.

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6 minutes ago, Thracen said:

Yeah that may be true, however it certainly doesn't feel that way. My frustration comes from how little damage I get when the guns do hit. Also you are saying these guns are accurate, my stats indicate I have a higher hit ratio on the freddy 27% to 30%. Obviously there is something wrong and your comment does nothing to help my issues.

the ship is massively more accurate than the Freddy - which kinda leaves only one reason to explain the difference: the guy behind the wheel. Either you havent adapted to the high velocity, or (and that's the more likely explanation here) you simply get a lot closer in the Freddy, which obviously improves your hitrate.

Again, it's not the ship, it's what you do with it that isn't clicking. And without you giving any details on how you play her, what exactly are we supposed to tell you?

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In answer to your question OP - Izumo is a bit of a turd compared to virtually all other T9 BBs (FDG included). When compared to the Musashi - there is simply no comparison and it ceases to be funny. It isn't just you because WG have tried to buff the Izumo a while ago with better concealment and armour vs. HE spam - it obviously didn't work because they're trying to buff it some more in future! It is simply one of those ships where the majority of the playerbase don't get on with it.

 

The guns are powerful on paper - yet they never seem to actually land solid damaging hits on your targets. The high penetration means that overpens are an occurrence whenever you actually manage to hit something - cruisers, BBs, whatever.

 

That is of course IF you actually hit something - since the accuracy is dire. Again, on paper it looks good - but I find it the least consistent of my T9 BBs (FDG included) in terms of shots actually going where I want them to. 

 

You are a physically big, fat target - so easy for other players to land hits on you. Same goes for CVs - although the top hull AA can dissuade some CV players from attacking if there are better targets lying around. 

 

Despite the decent armour vs. HE spam - expect every CL within 15km to spam you with the stuff. Despite a full survivability/fire prevention build I find I get rapidly burnt down to a crisp if caught out of position even a little. Good luck trying to stay in a good position - since it's slow and lumbering (even by BB standards).

 

Combine that with a moronic turret design that means 1/3 of your firepower is nearly always pointing in the wrong direction, poor concealment relative to it's opposition and the fact that you are a BB with virtually no redeeming features....you get the idea. I've given up on mine and will just grind out FXP using the Musashi to bypass it. High tier games are bad enough without having to navigate around in the 'IJN comedy naval design of the year 2018'. 

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3 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

The guns are powerful on paper - yet they never seem to actually land solid damaging hits on your targets. The high penetration means that overpens are an occurrence whenever you actually manage to hit something - cruisers, BBs, whatever.

This. This outlines my experience with her perfectly. I never had too much trouble with he and survivability, both issues are well dealt with with a good skill build and good positioning, but without good guns even the best positioning cannot guarantee you good damage. I regularly come across broadside yammys at 15km, if I get more thank 5k damage in a 9 gun salvo I'm very surprised. The guns, they do not work. 

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3 hours ago, Thracen said:

I regularly come across broadside yammys at 15km, if I get more thank 5k damage in a 9 gun salvo I'm very surprised. The guns, they do not work.

Try to get to 10km or less and that broadsided Yammy will be in a World Of Pain tm

I ain't a good BB player... I usually only can do one thing: push and brawl... and my hit rate is a terrible ~25% in about all my IJN BBs, because I usually shoot at every target that enters my range, be it BB, Cruiser or DD, which of course leads to tons of misses...

But when the occasion arises, and there is some braindead potato BB showing me broadside when I sneak up to it from behind an island and I get it at 10km or less... oooooh, then those guns do really hurt...

Some ships even suffer quite a lot of damage when shot at from the front by the Izumo at lower ranges...

 

Can't say anything about using it as a maximum range shell lobber though... I do shoot from that range, while moving forward to the enemy, but as I don't really expect anything worthwhile coming from it - except maybe some lucky shot detonating a cruiser or DD - I don't even really try to remember the results of those shots.

 

But yes, even I do better in most of my T8 BBs than in the Izumo. But that's not the ship's fault - just my own...

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Having played the musashi quite a lot, i dont think i will be able to make myself play the izumo at the same tier when i could be sitting in a musashi... Will probably end up using free xp to skip the izumo

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Well, if my stats are any indication, she's about 3/4 of a Musashi :fish_book:

 

Dunno. I can't say I like her. I know she has some objectively good qualities, but they're hard to get the best out of. Her guns are really trollish. Easy to hit with, and capable of dishing out a world of hurt in the right circumstances, but the high velocity and flat trajectory means you typically get a lot of overpens and shells bouncing off the deck where slower shells would have plunged right through. She's a bit too sluggish for my tastes compared to Amagi, and without the redeeming qualities of the Yamasashi sisters (i.e. the guns).

 

If you can turn away without getting spanked, then she can kite reasonably well: The rearward firing angles of her guns are actually quite decent. Unfortunately the awkward turrets mean that you can't wiggle too much when you do it. If I was going to change something about her, I think giving the "B" turret 360 degree rotation would be a fairly good change. It would make it a lot easier to keep at least 2/3 of your armament on target. Giving her Nelson's turret arrangement might actually make her a bit OP.

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Musashi can overmatch 32mm armour, so for the average player it is easier to use, because you have to know less. Throw in the extra dispersion it has compared to Yamato and it lands accidental citadel hits as well.

Well, regarding your feeling about the guns, you can actually look it up: www.wowsft.com 


Now less flight time means less time for the enemy to dodge. So it is basically easier to catch ships that make a mistake and that might go wrong for you. When I compare stats we have a similar hit rating, but you fail to kill ships. We have the same amount of ship kills, but you have twice the amount of battles. 
So my questions for you are;
Do you keep shooting at the same target or do you keep looking around?
Do you only spam AP?

Perhaps it doesn't say much, but it made me wonder.

I have barely played the old Izumo, but I have HE spammed many of them down. I have grinded through the new Izumo and it was a really pleasant grind. The armour buff helped her a lot. I think she is somewhat of an odd duck in the line, but most lines have such a ship. Being a odd duck doesn't mean she's terrible though.

Good luck and I hope you manage to get to know her :)

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Maybe they could change the layout so you can use all the guns from the front and maybe decrease the dispersion of them.

 

Although someone mentioned wargaming are buffing them i wouldn’t put too much stock into whether they actually buff the right parts of the ship.

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1 hour ago, CptBarney said:

Maybe they could change the layout so you can use all the guns from the front and maybe decrease the dispersion of them.

 

Although someone mentioned wargaming are buffing them i wouldn’t put too much stock into whether they actually buff the right parts of the ship.

They are buffing the penetration. Izumo already has the best pen of her caliber at sub 15 km though (and exceeds FdG 420 mm at sub 10 km) and only falls off at range where USN super-heavy AP exceeds it. If they buff it further, oh boy... I'd guess best pen at all ranges then.

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2 hours ago, Riselotte said:

They are buffing the penetration. Izumo already has the best pen of her caliber at sub 15 km though (and exceeds FdG 420 mm at sub 10 km) and only falls off at range where USN super-heavy AP exceeds it. If they buff it further, oh boy... I'd guess best pen at all ranges then.

So it becomes a smoll camping boute?

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3 hours ago, CptBarney said:

So it becomes a smoll camping boute?

Izumo is slightly larger than Yamato actually. And no, you don't need to camp. You might at times not move much, but ideally, if you need to hold back a flank, you don't do it by nose in and reverse with 6 guns, but by turning around soon enough to kite with 9 guns. Works in Izumo, works in Yamato. It also makes you less easy a target for torpedoes or for flanking maneuvers, as you can speed up to quarter, half, three quarter and full speed, not just reverse or stop.

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7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

They are buffing the penetration.

 

So even more overpens on a ship already notorious for scoring nothing but overpens.

Is genius buff comrade!

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2 hours ago, Riselotte said:

Izumo is slightly larger than Yamato actually. And no, you don't need to camp. You might at times not move much, but ideally, if you need to hold back a flank, you don't do it by nose in and reverse with 6 guns, but by turning around soon enough to kite with 9 guns. Works in Izumo, works in Yamato. It also makes you less easy a target for torpedoes or for flanking maneuvers, as you can speed up to quarter, half, three quarter and full speed, not just reverse or stop.

So similar in a way to reverse side scraping in world of tanks but for ships like miss izumi. Kinda reminds me of kiting in french ships but much slower.

 

is this the play style for most or some ijn ships or just limited too miss izumi? Also what buffs do reckon she needs to have in order to be less ‘awkward’

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11 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

is this the play style for most or some ijn ships or just limited too miss izumi? Also what buffs do reckon she needs to have in order to be less ‘awkward’

Most BBs with half-decent rearward turret angles and half-decent belt armour can kite fairly well. This includes most of the IJN BBs. Personally I find the more cruiser-like BBs up to T8 better at it, but the Izumo does manage to hold a flank pretty well.

 

My main issue with it in those kind of situations is that the bouncy, high-velocity guns can make it difficult to really damage someone who's chasing you.

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Alle 8/12/2018 alle 11:58, LemonadeWarrior ha scritto:

So my questions for you are;
Do you keep shooting at the same target or do you keep looking around?
Do you only spam AP?

 

I always switch to the juiciest targets to try and up my damage numbers, unless a ship is very close to death and needs finishing, but with the reload of a bb I tend not too. I will use HE but usually only on bow in BBs that are threatening me, sometimes when they get close I will stick with Ap to try and break their guns for the pass. Pretty much how I play all my BBs, should I be doing something different in the Izumo?

 

Alle 8/12/2018 alle 01:00, Deckeru_Maiku ha scritto:

Try to get to 10km or less and that broadsided Yammy will be in a World Of Pain tm

 

Probably a little unrealistic on most T9 maps with the MM you get, oh and I would argue pretty well that the her peers at T9 would do a better job of A getting into that position or B taking advantage of it. Better stealth/more guns, less likely to be punished for the aggressive position, more manoeuvrable to get in and out of said position and so on. 

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11 hours ago, Thracen said:

 

I always switch to the juiciest targets to try and up my damage numbers, unless a ship is very close to death and needs finishing, but with the reload of a bb I tend not too. I will use HE but usually only on bow in BBs that are threatening me, sometimes when they get close I will stick with Ap to try and break their guns for the pass. Pretty much how I play all my BBs, should I be doing something different in the Izumo?

Damage is not really important, finishing off ships is. I have lost battles because a 600 hp ship managed to get dark, due not everyone shooting at it.
I often try to aim for the citadel during the pass, it is rare that the other player does the same. 

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I agree with your Warrior, however BBs with 25+ second reloads are not ideal for finishing targets, sure if I have an opportunity to finish something especially a stealthy bugger I will, but I much prefer not watching ships be killed with my salvo in the air on the way to an already sinking wreck. 

 

Just to further my aggravation: Todays match in the Izumo, 1 pen out of 6 shells at a 6km broadside iowa, 4k full salvo at broadsiding lion, 4k full salvo at a buffalo within 8km. The guns are more than anecdotally terrible. Slow turrets, few guns, ineffectual even on contact, and worse dispersion. What possible justification is there for this ship to be competitive and you know FUN!!!! ?

 

Edit: Forgot the terrible third turret angle, also she is high in the water, slab sided with the most vulnerable citadel for her class and tier. Anything else? 

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52 minutes ago, Thracen said:

What possible justification is there for this ship to be competitive and you know FUN!!!! ?

 

...great ramming speed? :Smile_hiding:

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Izumo exists for one and only reason - to get skipped by FXP to Yamato.

No premium or even FXP ship made WG more money than Izumo did

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On 12/7/2018 at 7:42 PM, Tyrendian89 said:

Izumo guns are monstrously powerful tools.

But the Sigma is bad? :cap_yes:

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3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But the Sigma is bad? :cap_yes:

 

1.8 is a typical value for T9 BBs.

Sigma also doesn't matter as much if your base dispersion is good.

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1 hour ago, Thracen said:

few guns

9 guns, 6 forward, 3 if you don't need to angle, 9 angled backwards. At T9 that is actually pretty normal, with only Alsace having more guns, but of smaller caliber. I don't think you would call a normal amount of guns for the tier "few".

5 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

But the Sigma is bad? :cap_yes:

1.8 sigma

Standard BB sigma. Izumo has some greater vertical dispersion than Iowa and Lion, due to high shell velocity, but the horizontal dispersion is good (IJN pattern) and it's miles more accurate than FdG.

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