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Cpt_Mooney

Buff british cruisers allready!

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...either give them armor that actually does something, have them benefit from the BBAP against DDs overpen damage mechanic, or bloody

give them a smoke that doesent turn into a deathtrap every single time, because everybody and his mothers got a darn spotter plane!

(or simply get rid of the alternative viewing angle)

As it is right now, especially the high tier ones, they are pure frustration.

You nerf something that wasnt OP to begin with? Well then give them something in return, its not THAT hard to grasp.

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This is a l2p issue, brittish cruisers have around the highest skill floor in the game.

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11 minutes ago, thiextar said:

This is a l2p issue, brittish cruisers have around the highest skill floor in the game.

 

Sadly, he has a point tho.

I feel the hightier RN CLs are better of with Radar in this Meta than Smoke. Rouge DDs all over the map, and a Radar Mino eats them for breakfast, while a Smoke Mino has problems with that. And if are forced to smoke in open water, everyone will shoot that smoke regardless if they have targets literally in their face - the Citadel chance is just too high which spells XP.

Also enemy Radars are less of an issue since you wont play stationary. If your team collapses you have problems, or if the enemy team starts running you wont deal much damage either. If you get rid of the DDs however, you might be able to do some Torp runs instead.

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27 minutes ago, Cpt_Mooney said:

...either give them armor that actually does something, have them benefit from the BBAP against DDs overpen damage mechanic, or bloody

give them a smoke that doesent turn into a deathtrap every single time, because everybody and his mothers got a darn spotter plane!

(or simply get rid of the alternative viewing angle)

As it is right now, especially the high tier ones, they are pure frustration.

You nerf something that wasnt OP to begin with? Well then give them something in return, its not THAT hard to grasp.

Really?

image.thumb.png.4462b33d7e12308ede0d7d83e9023f05.png

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

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38 minutes ago, Cpt_Mooney said:

As it is right now, especially the high tier ones, they are pure frustration.

11 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Really? 

 

:cap_like:

Can you stop being negative against everything and using strawman arguements to try to prove a point?

Leander is not the only RN CL and it CERTAINLY isnt high tier.

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I don't see any sensible way to make armour more effective, but tweaks to the smoke mechanics would lower the skill floor while not providing a huge advantage to high skill players. 

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This line is a perfect example of git gud or git lost. No reason to buff it.

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25 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

:cap_like:

Can you stop being negative against everything and using strawman arguements to try to prove a point?

Leander is not the only RN CL and it CERTAINLY isnt high tier.

I cannot when the threadstarter cannot get into specifics.

When you write about all, I disprove you. Period. Make a more sensible and detailed argument and we can talk about it.

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I can agree with lowtiers being on meh end, but from Fiji onwards they are monstrously capable boats. Any buff would require nerfs following. Heck, Minotaur as first tier 10 CL sets bar so damn high for other light cruisers its not even funny at times.

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About time all British Cruisers got smoke and Radar at the same time.

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The neptune sucks. concealment is worse, the thing handles like a bus and has got to be the easiest dev strike target in the top tiers. All with a stock 15.km range? She is a bad joke and a pain in the backside, found all the others more than fine, even the emerald. But you really need best in class conceal to make them work, neptune hasn't got that, so she doesn't really work. 

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22 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I cannot when the threadstarter cannot get into specifics.

When you write about all, I disprove you. Period. Make a more sensible and detailed argument and we can talk about it.

 

Disprove? You didnt. Not even with the nut-picking you did. Since you sorted after Winrate, which was the only category, where Leander was no. 1. And Winrate says nothing about the performance of a silver ship, espeically when its below 50%.

Btw - your own experiance says: OP is right! And you have a recent Winrate of 16,66% in RN CLs - enlighten us, what happened?

 

722894536_Screenshot_2018-12-07WoWSStatsNumbersEU-ColonelPete-Spielerinformationenund-statistiken(1).thumb.png.b4568902c931c6e04546c66327599f33.png

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20 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I cannot when the threadstarter cannot get into specifics.

When you write about all, I disprove you. Period. Make a more sensible and detailed argument and we can talk about it.

 

1 out of 10 doesnt disprove it, does it? The other 9 could still suck - even tho they ofc dont. But for Hightiers he has a point, and he did mention that.

 

20 minutes ago, Panocek said:

I can agree with lowtiers being on meh end, but from Fiji onwards they are monstrously capable boats. Any buff would require nerfs following. Heck, Minotaur as first tier 10 CL sets bar so damn high for other light cruisers its not even funny at times.

 

Worcester weak, buff plz? :cap_fainting:

Worcester got nerfed recently so it kinda means it was overperforming, Mino didnt get a nerf so it must be weaker than Worc.

 

WHen they were first released, everyone was saying how OP that smoke shooting is. Took some time but ppl adapted to that + the huge amount of Radar ships and Smoke firing penalty makes using smoke simply worse than going Radar. Smoke gives you the illusion of safety, while it actually does the opposite. Playing Radar Mino is less risky if you manage to get rid of the DDs. You might get less damage in the end, but you certainly can carry harder with it.

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2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

1 out of 10 doesnt disprove it, does it? The other 9 could still suck - even tho they ofc dont. But for Hightiers he has a point, and he did mention that.

 

 

Worcester weak, buff plz? :cap_fainting:

Worcester got nerfed recently so it kinda means it was overperforming, Mino didnt get a nerf so it must be weaker than Worc.

 

WHen they were first released, everyone was saying how OP that smoke shooting is. Took some time but ppl adapted to that + the huge amount of Radar ships and Smoke firing penalty makes using smoke simply worse than going Radar. Smoke gives you the illusion of safety, while it actually does the opposite. Playing Radar Mino is less risky if you manage to get rid of the DDs. You might get less damage in the end, but you certainly can carry harder with it.

Shell output from Minotaur is hampered only by guy on receiving end bright enough to angle. On broadsides Tea Piercing rounds deals about as much damage as nippon infused HE. With waaay higher rate of fire. And with no need for IFHE, so Brit CL are happy to build their captains as they see fit after meeting with AR, SI and CE.

 

And Wooster nerf touched only her radar.

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14 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Disprove? You didnt. Not even with the nut-picking you did. Since you sorted after Winrate, which was the only category, where Leander was no. 1. And Winrate says nothing about the performance of a silver ship, espeically when its below 50%.

Btw - your own experiance says: OP is right! And you have a recent Winrate of 16,66% in RN CLs - enlighten us, what happened?

 

722894536_Screenshot_2018-12-07WoWSStatsNumbersEU-ColonelPete-Spielerinformationenund-statistiken(1).thumb.png.b4568902c931c6e04546c66327599f33.png

WR says everything. Do not restart a useless discussion about WR.... :fish_palm:

Btw. you could have looked at kills/battle too...

This discussion is not about my experience. And yes, stock ships are bad for WR....

 

14 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

1 out of 10 doesnt disprove it, does it? The other 9 could still suck - even tho they ofc dont. But for Hightiers he has a point, and he did mention that.

 

It does when he writes about ALL. If the meant the others, he should have written that.

 

Btw...

image.thumb.png.1101efb7b8ecf6bbc8147b8762f4a34e.png

 

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12 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Btw...

show us Neptune. Why dont you? Everyone is talking about high-tiers. Dont you know what High tiers is? And its commonly accpted, that Fiji is a top contester for the strongest silver cruiser in the game. You got nothing better to come up with?

 

12 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

This discussion is not about my experience. And yes, stock ships are bad for WR....

 

Erm... When your own stats show, that you suck with a certain ship/line, then I really wonder, how can you tell OP and others, that they dont know what they are talking about? When someone looks closly, what you write in the forums here, its always the same anyway:

- there is no problem

- its your fault

- git gud

You never post something else. Why do you even bother? I can save you some time. Copy those three lines in your signature, so you can drop empty posts from now on, which will have the same content basically.

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1 minute ago, ForlornSailor said:

show us Neptune. Why dont you? Everyone is talking about high-tiers. Dont you know what High tiers is? And its commonly accpted, that Fiji is a top contester for the strongest silver cruiser in the game. You got nothing better to come up with?

 

Because he not talking only about Neptune....

The concept of disproving something is new to you, it seems.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Because he not talking only about Neptune.... 

 

Aha, interesting. He did NOT talk about Neptune, but he talked about Leander, according to you?

 

2 hours ago, Cpt_Mooney said:

As it is right now, especially the high tier ones, they are pure frustration.

 

Its clear why you dont want to post the stats of Neptune. Anyone, that has a real interest in discussing the subject unbiased and mature, would do so. But your agenda is clear. Just dont answer anymore. Unless you want to embarrass yourself further.

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ColonelPete, If you disagree with the OP, simply stating such and posting stats (in a less than clear way) is not very helpful. Maybe if you politely explained your position, you wouldn't come across as deliberately and belligerently rude and unhelpful.

 

I personally think there is a strong case to be made that the RN CCs have been having a rough time of late especially in the later tiers with neptune being a particular highlight. Things I believe that have contributed to this are:

 

Smoke changes

Increased player knowledge of smoke firing and spotterplane tactics

The mini map targeting marker

An increase in radar ships, many of which are very powerful and line up with UK cruisers in the matchmaker, Kronshtadt for example.

 

All of these things have happened since their release and no buffs have accompanied them. Do you think my case that they have gotten relatively weaker in the meta is unfounded?

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Just now, ForlornSailor said:

 

Aha, interesting. He did NOT talk about Neptune, but he talked about Leander, according to you?

Quote

Buff british cruisers allready!

 

...either give them armor that actually does something, have them benefit from the BBAP against DDs overpen damage mechanic, or bloody

give them a smoke that doesent turn into a deathtrap every single time, because everybody and his mothers got a darn spotter plane!

(or simply get rid of the alternative viewing angle)

As it is right now, especially the high tier ones, they are pure frustration. (He is highlighting some ships, but not excluding the others)

You nerf something that wasnt OP to begin with? Well then give them something in return, its not THAT hard to grasp.

Basic logic.

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I cannot deny that they are easy to play. So far playing Leander/Perth/Belfast. All are very capable to carry games and doing a lot of easy DMG. In higher tiers playing vs them I can say that Mino with radar is a nightmare to DD's and smoked one (not siting, but moving in it) is not such easy to hit with spotter plane. Second - of course you can mitigate his dmg output by angling, but often you just can't do that. He pop up his smoke suddenly at your broadside - ripping you apart, and the only other option you have is giving citadel to other ships ...

 

Buff cancer smoky line ? Nope. You don't like be a paper ? Then take normal open water cruisers and play as a man without hiding. Want be a solid radar ship ? Take US or Sov line. The last thing we need is DES like ship with smoke.

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12 minutes ago, Thracen said:

I personally think there is a strong case to be made that the RN CCs have been having a rough time of late especially in the later tiers with neptune being a particular highlight. Things I believe that have contributed to this are:

 

Smoke changes

Increased player knowledge of smoke firing and spotterplane tactics

The mini map targeting marker

An increase in radar ships, many of which are very powerful and line up with UK cruisers in the matchmaker, Kronshtadt for example.

 

Straight down to the point, based on facts and I can agree 100%. Thats how a good, mature discussion looks like @ColonelPete - you can learn something right there. btw - I wont respond to your childish behavoir anymore. Dont you think, everyone can see, how foolish you look? Well, its your choice.

 

Now about you post @Thracen. Ive played RN CLs pretty much since their release and I liked their style right from the start. And they were super-strong at the time of the release. Some of them were OP, but that was hughly because of the playerbase not beeing able to counter them. You had the 2 km buffer for detection, so that you could even gundown ships, that were rushing you. That this is gone, fine. I can understand, that it made RN CLs too strong. IMO - some ships still have a too high detection when firing their guns in smoke (looking at you, Neptune). On top of that, people learned to deal with RN CLs. Ive had situations, were enemys rather firied on my smoke, while I was never detected, then firing on BBs, that were closer (!) to them. Because they get rewarded with crazy damage if they hit, since Neptune and Minotaur take citas from every angle.

Also, the introduction of battle-cruisers hurt Neptune and Minotaur. Ive you are to replace Kronshtadt and Stalingrad on the enemy side, you put your own side at a huge disadvantage. Those are -if played right- tanky ships. Theyll soak up a lot of damage and draw fire, while you in your RN CL are avoiding to be shot at at all costs. So your team has to deal with beeing shot at more then the enemy team in return, since the reds will focus on one ship less. But not only that, Stalin/Kron are the perfect RN CL killers.

 

MY conclusion: over the last 12 months, the game has changed so much, the meta has changed and people have learnd to deal with RN CLs, that they need a buff. They dont need more firepower but they need more survivability. Id vote for a complete change of the citadel-layout on Neptune and Minotaur, so that they are inline with the other RN CLs. Might remove the superheal for that. Its a feature, that is not that helpful anymore. When did HE/Fire kill them? Its always BB AP.

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? Sorry Odo but imho there is nothing easier to shoot in smoke than a mino, the rate of fire is so high you know exactly where they are, also if they are angled in smoke they are losing a lot of firepower, turret angles are not perfect. Also smokes as so easy to disrupt, a single wave of tops will force a a brit cc into the open and certain death if they have not planned ahead, that's the best case scenario btw, the worst being they eat them and sink. 

 

That said I think lots of people have taken your advice and are sailing around in Kronshtads, a very fair and balanced ship. 

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10 minutes ago, Thracen said:

but imho there is nothing easier to shoot in smoke than a mino,

Mino - has a huge citadel, but on others I often see only overpens for a days. Mino was a cancer overall, now is still a cancer with radar, when playing as DD.

 

So mayby it a time to make them more bullet proof and finally take away smoke from them ? Nope ? So please give a US line a smoke. Des is so squishy too ...

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