Best Secondaries

[Miscommunication_dept]

6 hours ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

Don't know if it has been said already, but the positions/angles of the secondaries are quite a big deal. 

 

Most extreme example is Jean Bart. Alsace secondaries on paper, but usually not able to use them. 

True the Massachusetts seems to have better arcs that the Bismarck.

It's secondaries do tend to die to HE though, Bismarck's seem more resilient.

 

You're making me reconsider the Jean Bart, I should be able to buy it when the December coupon comes out but maybe I'll leave it!

[Miscommunication_dept]

9 hours ago, kfa said:

Buy the special german captain from the arsenal for coal, and train a new IFHE build. So you will have a normal BB build when you want to play an inaccurate Montana, and a fun IFHE for the lolz.

Well IFHE on the Kurfurst, not regretting it yet!

Burned down a Conqueror with 76,000 secondary damage!

[1MajorKoenig]

26 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Well IFHE on the Kurfurst, not regretting it yet!

Burned down a Conqueror with 76,000 secondary damage!

 

However IFHE means you have to give up fire prevention?

[Miscommunication_dept]

15 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

However IFHE means you have to give up fire prevention?

Never used fire prevention on any ship. 

Even on the GK the amount of times I’ve had two irreparable fires is really very few. 

I don’t view it as worth 4 points.

 

[kfa]

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

Well IFHE on the Kurfurst, not regretting it yet!

Burned down a Conqueror with 76,000 secondary damage!

Yep you are like a 70ton permaflood if you click on a ship with your secondaries. English and french BBs and cruisers are the softest targets.

 

https://youtu.be/yaNS4YVGcyQ?t=191

[Miscommunication_dept]

Do you use Demolition expert or BFT?

I specced into BFT than I realised that DE would increase the secondary fire chance by 50%!

[loppantorkel]

Meh... I guess you could make an IFHE build work on GK, but on the frenchies?? I don't see how you could make it work somewhat consistently... What does such a build look like? ..and what's your stats with it over time..?

[kfa]

25 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Do you use Demolition expert or BFT?

I specced into BFT than I realised that DE would increase the secondary fire chance by 50%!

 

You do most of your damage with penetrating HE shells not with fire. I use fire flags though.

[Miscommunication_dept]

Just what I've got.

Anyway the 20% extra AA may come in useful after the rework.

[principat121]

@gopher31

Can you show your stats in your secondary ships? I just want to compare. You turn doen such good secondary-ships like Alsace or Republique without ever played them, so I am curious about your results in your other suggested ships.

[Miscommunication_dept]

24 minutes ago, principat121 said:

@gopher31

Can you show your stats in your secondary ships? I just want to compare. You turn doen such good secondary-ships like Alsace or Republique without ever played them, so I am curious about your results in your other suggested ships.

I’m only using the figures to

make judgements on the c100mm secondaries. The penetration figures show that they will not pen same tier battleships anywhere at all. I I’m not saying they are bad ships. 

The same goes for the German secondaries, they are basically fire starters with limited capacity to cause damage. 

If I’ve missed anything regarding pen values please let me know.

 

I’m not basing that on anything that could be so biased as experience! 

 

I could share my stats but IFHE  secondaries are new to me. Which stats are you interested in?

[loppantorkel]

18 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I’m not basing that on anything that could be so biased as experience!

Experience and stats over time is more valuable than theoretical arguments imo. You can find high potential damage in a build but not be able to put it to use because the survivability of that build is so low. Show me that it works in game over a prolonged period and you got a better argument.

[Miscommunication_dept]

6 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Experience and stats over time is more valuable than theoretical arguments imo. You can find high potential damage in a build but not be able to put it to use because the survivability of that build is so low. Show me that it works in game over a prolonged period and you got a better argument.

I really am not trying to make any kind of argument here. I’m a decidedly average and inexperienced player.

 

I have only presented the numbers as they are concrete.

i have then used those numbers to say c100mm guns  can penetrate very few things at high tier and that IFHE would only allow them to pen superstructure so probably isn’t worth it. Again backed up by the very numbers the game uses to decide if a shell penetrates or not.

 

is there a way to see my stats on  the GK before and after IFHE installation? That would be interesting in a few months.

[loppantorkel]

I've run sec.build on GK for a number of games now, just to see if I can make it work. ..but I can't. It still suck balls. Survivability build is still so much better in Random games. Going back to troll build when the free captain respec comes again.

[HaachamaShipping]

I used free respec to change from IFHE to CE on Kurfürst. Yes, the secondaries do far less damage to soft BBs (cruisers are not affected), but the fire chance is less crap and the improved concealment actually allows me to try being subtle.

[Kenliero]

5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I used free respec to change from IFHE to CE on Kurfürst. Yes, the secondaries do far less damage to soft BBs (cruisers are not affected), but the fire chance is less crap and the improved concealment actually allows me to try being subtle.

"Soft BB's" being all BB's except Kurfurst bow armor... Japanese and US BB also have 32mm bow and aft armors... And now you can not pen them anymore.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, Kenliero said:

"Soft BB's" being all BB's except Kurfurst bow armor... Japanese and US BB also have 32mm bow and aft armors... And now you can not pen them anymore.

If the shells land there and not on the centre part. 32 mm pen secondaries to me are situational, CE is far less so. Without IFHE they still are the best secondaries to put down cruisers and DDs. 

[Kenliero]

21 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

If the shells land there and not on the centre part. 32 mm pen secondaries to me are situational, CE is far less so. Without IFHE they still are the best secondaries to put down cruisers and DDs. 

The only way to make Kurfurst secondaries work perfectly is to use islands to get close, which is tactic I use. In Ocean map and few other maps with little cover CE is better option for sure.

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, Kenliero said:

The only way to make Kurfurst secondaries work perfectly is to use islands to get close, which is tactic I use. In Ocean map and few other maps with little cover CE is better option for sure.

I use that with ships like Gneisenau or Bismarck, but at T10, the amount of radars, spotter planes and semi-open maps is a pain. I'll for now check how it works till end of CB season, then decide whether to switch back or not.

[MMASK]

I had tried secondary Alsace, and the results were not spectacular. Germans due to 1/4 pen are much better.

For Republique I respecced for survivability, but kept manual secondaries for DDs and occasional brawl, they are good fire starters.

[MRGTB]

On 12/2/2018 at 8:59 AM, loppantorkel said:

Meh... I guess you could make an IFHE build work on GK, but on the frenchies?? I don't see how you could make it work somewhat consistently... What does such a build look like? ..and what's your stats with it over time..?

I have Jean Bart with a 19p captain and full secondary spec used. But I'm not using IFHE, I use DE instead for the higher fire chance with manual secondary and AFT for the longer distance on them. The problem with Bart and Alsace, while it's fun with the rapid fire rate of the 6 per-side 100mm secondary, they don't pen hardly anything being such small calibre, not even with IFHE really when playing at T9. I use BFT also to get reload down to about 2.5 seconds on the 100mm secondary with DE to try and get more fire damage using faster DPM. I don't see the point though of putting IFHE on 100mm secondary at tier 9 matches

 

I was wondering about the Republican because it loses the six 100mm secondary for four 127mm secondary per-side instead. While the Rep has 2 less secondary per side, they are bigger calibre guns. So I would have thought the Republican should be decent with secondary, it also having the other 3 bigger secondary guns as well that can shoot either side. But yet people rate the Alsace as being better on secondary still.

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

15 minutes ago, GTB1964 said:

I was wondering about the Republican because it loses the six 100mm secondary for four 127mm secondary per-side instead. While the Rep has 2 less secondary per side, they are bigger calibre guns. So I would have thought the Republican should be decent with secondary, it also having the other 3 bigger secondary guns as well that can shoot either side. But yet people rate the Alsace as being better on secondary still.

Whatever you do, Frenchies don't get 1/4 pen and more importantly, they are 32 mm armor all over making them very attractive BBQ targets for spam-ships.

IFHE lets you pen DDs and cruisers, but really the frenchies are about starting fires with their secondaries. It is hard to justify more than getting manual secondaries.

Can't remember the numbers for the Alsace vs Republiqe

 

Also:

[MRGTB]

You mean you'd pick IFHE before Manual Secondary. But Bart and Alsace doesn't get the added accuracy on secondary guns like Matty and Georgia does, that can make do without it. So to me you need manual secondary before going IFHE on Bart or Alsace. Isn't IFHE being scrapped soon as a skill anyway?

[Caridon]

As we are on this subject.  I am normaly a DD maim.  but sometimes you need lots of secondaries hits for missions ect.

what ships would be recomended to go for  in the lower tiers (5-7)  as i dont feel like grinding a full line for a few missions.

NOTE: im looking for lots of hitts not nesesary lots of damage.

[Wizard27_1979]

Just now, Caridon said:

As we are on this subject.  I am normaly a DD mail.  but somwtimes you need lots of secondaries hits for missions ect.

what ships would be recomended to go for  in the lower tiers (5-7)  as i dont feel like grinding a full line for a few missions.

As none of the ships in those tiers benefits from "Manual Secondary"-Perk I have just Scharnhorst (Premium) and Gneisenau in mind, but both not that effective as the above mentioned T8.