[SHAD] Miscommunication_dept Players 5,492 posts 23,770 battles Report post #1 Posted December 1, 2018 As Wargaming is testing 1/4 pen for all secondaries on the FDG I thought I would compare DPMwith the G Kurfurst. as I’m a bit of a secondary fiend I looked up the other big secondary ships. So the ranking G Kurfurst 558,780 Massachusetts 540,000 Bismarck/Tirpitz/Scharnhorst/FDG 512280 Gneisenau 495,000 HE pen: 25mm/32mm (IFHE) German102mm no/no (no/no) German 128mm yes/no (yes/yes) German 150mm yes/yes (yes/yes) Massachusetts no/no (yes/no) FDG 102mm (1/4 pen) yes/no (yes/yes) Massachusetts also has a 40% decrease in its dispersion. Massachusetts is tier for tier top dog here, especially when top tier. I found this interesting so I though I would share. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SHAD] Miscommunication_dept Players 5,492 posts 23,770 battles Report post #2 Posted December 1, 2018 They each have higher DPM on one side of the secondaries(Only half can fire on one target) than the seattle. If only we could do the shooting ourselves rather than the drunken sailors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TTTX] Tyrendian89 [TTTX] Players 4,608 posts 8,139 battles Report post #3 Posted December 1, 2018 you're missing the Alsace there good sir! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panocek Players 13,153 posts 13,570 battles Report post #4 Posted December 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said: you're missing the Alsace there good sir! These 100mm guns provide at best fireworks display without IFHE. And even then you can dent only DDs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SHAD] Miscommunication_dept Players 5,492 posts 23,770 battles Report post #5 Posted December 1, 2018 ..Cough.... the winner is Alsace with 771000 DPM 672000 of which comes from the 100mm with only 16mm pen 99000 from the 152mm which don’t pen 25mm stock but can pen 32mm with IFHE. This ship won’t do as much damage as any of the others mentioned to battleships or cruisers at same tier. This one is the pyromaniac! 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HMSR] Major_Damage225 Beta Tester 2,875 posts 7,295 battles Report post #6 Posted December 1, 2018 Best secondarys have to go to Mikasa , true 9 out of 10 times you'll burn before you get in range, but that 1 time when you do.... priceless. Bdw, WG buff Mika's secondarys to 5.5ish km specced already will ya Dont forget about Yamato in secondary spec? I still use that build sometimes on her But yeah Alsause normally dosent do big direct damage numbers with secondarys (DD excluded) but damn sometimes those fires can be a royal pain in the buut, especially if RNG has it in for you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THROW] wilkatis_LV [THROW] Players 5,061 posts 10,645 battles Report post #7 Posted December 1, 2018 What - at least in my opinion - still makes Bismark / Derpitz better at secondaries than Massa is their ability to use them. The armour lets you to be that close and expose enough of your side. US BBs lag quite a bit behind germans in that aspect. Anyway, I wonder how would other ships known for secondary builds stack up? Like the original secondary ships - Izumo and Yamato? Or the new contestant with the best range - Republic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] loppantorkel Players 4,506 posts 15,942 battles Report post #8 Posted December 1, 2018 Alsace secondary build is fun/good? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SHAD] Miscommunication_dept Players 5,492 posts 23,770 battles Report post #9 Posted December 1, 2018 This is interesting Yamato has higher secondary DPM than any of the Germans at 627,818. the range only lacks slightly against the GK. it seems 1/4 pen and larger amounts of c150mm guns is the reason for the secondary viability of the Germans. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DC_DK] hgbn_dk Players 3,355 posts 43,982 battles Report post #10 Posted December 1, 2018 1 hour ago, loppantorkel said: Alsace secondary build is fun/good? If you want to farm Close quarters expert achievements en mass, then yes. You'll need IFHE skill. Same commander fits Gastogne and Jean Bart perfectly as well. Basically the same secondary set up on all three ships 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] loppantorkel Players 4,506 posts 15,942 battles Report post #11 Posted December 1, 2018 1 minute ago, hgbn_dk said: If you want to farm Close quarters expert achievements en mass, then yes. You'll need IFHE skill. Same commander fits Gastogne and Jean Bart perfectly as well. Basically the same secondary set up on all three ships Better than Republique..? Different builds to try out maybe..? Got to level up another captain I suppose.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RenamedUser_92906789 Players 5,806 posts Report post #12 Posted December 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, loppantorkel said: Better than Republique..? Different builds to try out maybe..? Got to level up another captain I suppose.. Imo worth it if you tend to keep her with an IFHE captain. If not then ... nah. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SHAD] Miscommunication_dept Players 5,492 posts 23,770 battles Report post #13 Posted December 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, hgbn_dk said: If you want to farm Close quarters expert achievements en mass, then yes. You'll need IFHE skill. Same commander fits Gastogne and Jean Bart perfectly as well. Basically the same secondary set up on all three ships IFHE? With it the 100mm guns can pen 21mm. It won’t help against cruisers or battleships. It will against some destroyers of course. The 155s willpen 32mm but that’s hardly worth it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PANEU] kfa Beta Tester 1,975 posts 13,875 battles Report post #14 Posted December 1, 2018 I run IFHE kurfürst, when i get into a good brawling match the secondaries do 2x-3x the amount of damage more than the main guns. No ships can close to her performance, maybe a Bismarck clubbing T6s but that hardly counts. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RenamedUser_92906789 Players 5,806 posts Report post #15 Posted December 1, 2018 Here is a nice Kurfurst image. Spoiler No ... its not fake :D Spoiler 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SHAD] Miscommunication_dept Players 5,492 posts 23,770 battles Report post #16 Posted December 1, 2018 1 hour ago, kfa said: I run IFHE kurfürst, when i get into a good brawling match the secondaries do 2x-3x the amount of damage more than the main guns. No ships can close to her performance, maybe a Bismarck clubbing T6s but that hardly counts. I'm tempted but now I've won a Tirpitz B I don't really want it's captain to have IFHE in the place of concealment, It will only help penetration in very few situations. I hope Wargaming consider giving the 105s 1/4 pen like they are giving the Freidrich de Grobe . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NAN0] HaachamaShipping Players 8,474 posts 10,052 battles Report post #17 Posted December 1, 2018 5 hours ago, gopher31 said: As Wargaming is testing 1/4 pen for all secondaries on the FDG I thought I would compare DPMwith the G Kurfurst. as I’m a bit of a secondary fiend I looked up the other big secondary ships. So the ranking G Kurfurst 558,780 Massachusetts 540,000 Bismarck/Tirpitz/Scharnhorst/FDG 512280 Gneisenau 495,000 HE pen: 25mm/32mm (IFHE) German102mm no/no (no/no) German 128mm yes/no (yes/yes) German 150mm yes/yes (yes/yes) Massachusetts no/no (yes/no) FDG 102mm (1/4 pen) yes/no (yes/yes) Massachusetts also has a 40% decrease in its dispersion. Massachusetts is tier for tier top dog here, especially when top tier. I found this interesting so I though I would share. Tier for tier, Gneisenau is better, as it can pen everything in its tier. With IFHE it can pen everything in its spread. And it has good dpm for T7. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PANEU] kfa Beta Tester 1,975 posts 13,875 battles Report post #18 Posted December 1, 2018 27 minutes ago, gopher31 said: I'm tempted but now I've won a Tirpitz B I don't really want it's captain to have IFHE in the place of concealment, It will only help penetration in very few situations. I hope Wargaming consider giving the 105s 1/4 pen like they are giving the Freidrich de Grobe . Buy the special german captain from the arsenal for coal, and train a new IFHE build. So you will have a normal BB build when you want to play an inaccurate Montana, and a fun IFHE for the lolz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SHAD] Miscommunication_dept Players 5,492 posts 23,770 battles Report post #19 Posted December 1, 2018 I’ve got a couple of ten point German captains with no home. I might just re buy the Bismarck and build one of them up. Seeing the way my Massachusetts melts 25mm tier 7 battleships I just have to try with the GK! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CG] Redcap375 Players 4,366 posts 15,179 battles Report post #20 Posted December 1, 2018 42 minutes ago, Riselotte said: Tier for tier, Gneisenau is better, as it can pen everything in its tier. With IFHE it can pen everything in its spread. And it has good dpm for T7. But only a 8 km range.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] Kenliero Players 2,478 posts 11,035 battles Report post #21 Posted December 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, gopher31 said: I’ve got a couple of ten point German captains with no home. I might just re buy the Bismarck and build one of them up. Seeing the way my Massachusetts melts 25mm tier 7 battleships I just have to try with the GK! GK is excellent specially against British and French battleships. it just wrecks them in no time with IFHE. They pen it everywhere. It's so ridiculous it's actually funny to watch. In short: if you play British or French BB's. Never go close to IFHE GK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NAN0] HaachamaShipping Players 8,474 posts 10,052 battles Report post #22 Posted December 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Redcap375 said: But only a 8 km range.... Yes. For T7 that is adequate though and Gneisenau synergises well with such ranges. Top tier, Gneisenau doesn't need to fear closing in to such ranges as long as it is aware of torp threats, bottom tier, it will need to pick engagements carefully, but will want to close in at times anyway to utilise its great equaliser, while the armour allows to tank T9 shells more comfortably than any other T7 BB (except Scharnhorst, for obvious reasons). So, the range may be limited, but is workable, the dpm however is top notch (basically 80-90% of the top dpm secondaries in high tier) just that they pen everything. Only Kurfürst with IFHE can boast that too, Massachusetts cannot, Bismarck, Scharnhorst cannot. Actually, FdG with buffed secondaries would be able to do it with IFHE, but has barely more dpm. And when top tier, Gneisenau doesn't even need IFHE. Lastly, there are far fewer things in the MM spread of Gneisenau that get 50 mm or better plating, as it is mostly just German BB and Izumo. Everything else is inbetween 10 mm (Omaha...) and 38 (Iowa). There are no 50 mm plating cruisers and Izumo has far less impervous deck area than Yamato. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corvi Beta Tester, In AlfaTesters 1,147 posts 16,279 battles Report post #23 Posted December 1, 2018 Alsace and Republique have the best secondaries, why you leave them out ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SHAD] Miscommunication_dept Players 5,492 posts 23,770 battles Report post #24 Posted December 1, 2018 17 minutes ago, Corvi said: Alsace and Republique have the best secondaries, why you leave them out ? I have neither, Republique's aren't great. Alsace have the highest DPM but just don't pen anything so are realy fire starters. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NWP] __Helmut_Kohl__ Beta Tester 4,140 posts 18,904 battles Report post #25 Posted December 1, 2018 Don't know if it has been said already, but the positions/angles of the secondaries are quite a big deal. Most extreme example is Jean Bart. Alsace secondaries on paper, but usually not able to use them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
