Making Radio Location a module instead of a captain skill?

[loppantorkel]

I'm about to get a 19p captain on shima. I've got PM, AR, LS, SE, TAE and CE. The last 4 skill points on shima is more of a luxury. Nothing is particularly good, aside from RL which would be a benefit perhaps in Ranked, if I ever decided to take shima into Ranked. In Random games I have more fun without RL. If I could choose to disable it, I'd give it another try, but that would make it too powerful even as a tier 4 captain skill.

 

Doesn't RL make more sense as a module which you could choose to equip and unequip between battles, rather than a captain skill? I think it does... If WG is looking at some changes, this could be considered too imo.

[Spithas]

Remove it entirely.

[loppantorkel]

3 minutes ago, Spithas said:

Remove it entirely.

People on the forum seems to want to keep it, according to the latest poll. I'm not overly fond of RL in the game, but it's workable. I think RL is going to be looked upon if submarines make it into the game. No real reason to make drastic changes before.

[Procrastes]

5 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Doesn't RL make more sense as a module which you could choose to equip and unequip between battles, rather than a captain skill? I think it does... If WG is looking at some changes, this could be considered too imo.

An interesting thought! However, I'd say that Radio Location is probably too powerful to be just a lone module. That it ties up as much as four skill points, is currently its only redeeming feature in my opinion. You have to sacrifice a lot to get it, which is only fair considering how powerful it can be.

 

But if we consider the suggestion as such? I have a few spontaneous thoughts.

 

Making Radio Location into a module would allow Wargaming to restrict it to certain ships, which in turn would allow for a lot of rebalancing and fine-tuning. (And also a lot of grief, to be sure, so I don't think this is something that Wargaming is likely to consider anytime soon.)

 

If we further consider the possibility of adding yet another module, namely a Radio Location Jammer... then we're talking!

[DFens_666]

I thought immediately "what slot should that be in".

Obviously its too powerful for slots 1 and 2. ALltho slot 2 for DDs would make a choice between engine damage and RPF, but some Cruisers could easily pick in then in slot 2 without losing too much really, so not good.

Even for slots 3+4 it seems too powerful for DDs, especially in slot 3. Slot 4 could work as you would have to chose between rudder/propulsion or RPF. (but here RN CLs/DDs are an exception as they dont have propulsion mod)

Slot 5 is a no go because Concealment expert. Its still better to have that than RPF.

And slot 6 could work also. DDs would have a tradeoff for faster torp reload, and Cruisers for reload or AA mod. (alltho it seems problematic for Minotaur, as it doesnt really need the other 2, its just extra bonus)

 

so overall... id rather have it as a cptn skill. Also due to lack of options within those. As you said yourself, you dont know where to put the last 4 pts anyway, so you could take RPF - what would be the option then?

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Did you grind towards Shima without RL? Was it fun to play?

 

Did I get too lazy?

 

 

 

edit: I guess now they buffed the jap DD line that they can remove it. 

[loppantorkel]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

so overall... id rather have it as a cptn skill. Also due to lack of options within those. As you said yourself, you dont know where to put the last 4 pts anyway, so you could take RPF - what would be the option then?

This is mostly a balance issue. The captain skill tree have plenty of issues to begin with. Several mandatory skills, several skills that are useless for most captains/ships. I think it's better to see where the mechanic/feature fits best rather than using it to patch up holes. Maybe the skill tree needs some serious changes when/if subs are introduced anyway.

 

Maybe the captain skill tree should be about increasing performance of the ships somewhat or specialization to some degree rather than introducing specific mechanics? Maybe changing this would limit the necessity of captain respecs every CB season?

4 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Did you grind towards Shima without RL? Was it fun to play?

 

Did I get too lazy?

 

edit: I guess now they buffed the jap DD line that they can remove it. 

What..? I don't get it.. care to explain? It was both pretty fun and not at all bad.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

16 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

What..? I don't get it.. care to explain? It was both pretty fun and not at all bad.

So how do you kill or spot other DDs, contest caps and etcetera. RPF gives me the time to have my guns on target and to turn my ship into a kiting position. 

[Skurfa]

RDF is one of those skills where you, after you pick it, often wish you'd picked something else, equally or more usefull.

 

And if you do not pick it, equally often wish you've picked it.

 

The only reason to either reduce the cost, or put it in a module, would be to NOT have to decide whether to select it or not.

 

Hence it's a really good placement it has in the tree, worth 4 points? Yes, especially considering you'll have to weigh it up against what you "loose".

[loppantorkel]

17 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

So how do you kill or spot other DDs, contest caps and etcetera. RPF gives me the time to have my guns on target and to turn my ship into a kiting position. 

In Random battles you can figure out where the dds usually go/are. You outspot most, they smoke up, you torp smoke. In Random games, you don't need RL. You also don't advertise your presence to enemy ships like you do when you have RL. Makes it easier to torp enemy ships and probably more fun in Randoms...

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

In Random battles you can figure out where the dds usually go/are. You outspot most, they smoke up, you torp smoke. In Random games, you don't need RL. You also don't advertise your presence to enemy ships like you do when you have RL. Makes it easier to torp enemy ships and probably more fun in Randoms...

Aha! I understand you. For me the fun is using the guns and contesting caps. I play without smoke and I like it a lot. Radar ship or not, if I believe I can take the cap Ill try to take it. I need the RL to locate the DD, based on his location I can make the call to hunt him down. Those are the easiest wins (:

 

I still have to try out the new guns though ;D

[loppantorkel]

10 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Aha! I understand you. For me the fun is using the guns and contesting caps. I play without smoke and I like it a lot. Radar ship or not, if I believe I can take the cap Ill try to take it. I need the RL to locate the DD, based on his location I can make the call to hunt him down. Those are the easiest wins (:

 

I still have to try out the new guns though ;D

Ofc, you'll still be able to cap without RL. Although if you want to focus on gunning dds down, you got plenty of better options. Shima guns aren't bad, even better now in the last patch, but it's not like you don't have to still choose the engagements.

[Humorpalanta]

I'm not sure you guys understand the commander skills and why the exist.

 

"Radio location is too strong. Remove it!" " Concealment expert is mandatory! Give it us for free!" etc etc

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

2 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Ofc, you'll still be able to cap without RL. Although if you want to focus on gunning dds down, you got plenty of better options. Shima guns aren't bad, even better now in the last patch, but it's not like you don't have to still choose the engagements.

That is what makes it fun for me ;D The difficulty :)

 

Yesterday I contested a cap against a Harugumo in my Lightning. First torpedoes were a guess, 1 hit. Second time I spotted him briefly in the cap, another torpedo hit. After that one I knew it was my time to secure the kill :D

[Hesp]

I started thinking that RPF was OP like hell in its introduction although I did not use it at all (I refused to use it because it seemed a heresy), then I put it on Shima and discovered again that RPF is OP like hell. Now I have it in all my DD except Russian gunboats and Akizuki line.

 

 

If it were a module, it should be replacing the concealment module. RPF supposes a considerable advantage of information without supposing a significant damage (well, sometimes the signal of "detected" is a "hey I am here!")...

[loppantorkel]

17 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

I'm not sure you guys understand the commander skills and why the exist.

 

"Radio location is too strong. Remove it!" " Concealment expert is mandatory! Give it us for free!" etc etc

It looks like you don't understand the discussion in the thread tbh.

[mrk421]

2 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

This is mostly a balance issue. (1) The captain skill tree have plenty of issues to begin with. Several mandatory skills, several skills that are useless for most captains/ships. I think it's better to see where the mechanic/feature fits best rather than using it to patch up holes. Maybe the skill tree needs some serious changes when/if subs are introduced anyway.

 

(2) Maybe the captain skill tree should be about increasing performance of the ships somewhat or specialization to some degree rather than introducing specific mechanics? Maybe changing this would limit the necessity of captain respecs every CB season?

What..? I don't get it.. care to explain? It was both pretty fun and not at all bad.

(1) I agree. To be fair, so is the upgrade system though. FE, in Slot 5, you might as well only have the Concealment System mod1, because no-one ever takes the other ones (ok, some people use the Steering Gears Mod3 for novelty, but no-one who knows anything about the game would pick the Target Acquisition System Mod1).

(2) Also agree. In fact, I had an idea which follows this idea. What if RL was changed so that it would be baked in to all ships, but in a weaker form than currently (maybe 30 deg sectors instead of the 22.5 we have with the skill). With the captain skill, you could improve its performance / make it more precise (decrease the sector angle to current value or even slightly tighter). Food for thought...

[Humorpalanta]

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

It looks like you don't understand the discussion in the thread tbh.

Looks like you didn't understand the last 50 thread about this phenomenon.

[loppantorkel]

1 hour ago, Humorpalanta said:

Looks like you didn't understand the last 50 thread about this phenomenon.

About moving RL to 'modules' instead? No, I didn't notice the 50 other threads... Please refer me to one and I will try close this one.

 

2 hours ago, mrk421 said:

(1) I agree. To be fair, so is the upgrade system though. FE, in Slot 5, you might as well only have the Concealment System mod1, because no-one ever takes the other ones (ok, some people use the Steering Gears Mod3 for novelty, but no-one who knows anything about the game would pick the Target Acquisition System Mod1).

Make RL available in slot 5 and perhaps slightly nerf CS1 a small bit, and you'll have a decent choice for some. Probably makes for a more interesting choice in competitive too.

Quote

(2) Also agree. In fact, I had an idea which follows this idea. What if RL was changed so that it would be baked in to all ships, but in a weaker form than currently (maybe 30 deg sectors instead of the 22.5 we have with the skill). With the captain skill, you could improve its performance / make it more precise (decrease the sector angle to current value or even slightly tighter). Food for thought...

Maybe, but I don't like all players to have RL and also - I enjoy playing Random battles more without RL. It's kind of intrusive, plus it works both ways in some instances and isn't all benefit...

[HaachamaShipping]

5 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

So how do you kill or spot other DDs, contest caps and etcetera. RPF gives me the time to have my guns on target and to turn my ship into a kiting position. 

I haven't ever used RPF, but with some experience, you can guess the direction from where the enemy comes.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

7 hours ago, Riselotte said:

I haven't ever used RPF, but with some experience, you can guess the direction from where the enemy comes.

Yea, but than you have to guess and if you guess wrong you lose a big chunk of hp for nothing. 

 

But well a bit more on topic. Perhaps put rpf on the 5th slot, so that players can pick it over concealment expert.

[chazwozza]

19 hours ago, Spithas said:

Remove it entirely.

Seconded

[DFens_666]

6 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

But well a bit more on topic. Perhaps put rpf on the 5th slot, so that players can pick it over concealment expert.

 

Would you pick that over CE on a DD

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

4 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Would you pick that over CE on a DD

I would try it on some; Shima and Daring I guess. It becomes boring to always pick the same skills / setups :)
I think the effect RPF can have is the same as CE, so why not on that slot.