clan battles

[The_Shungite_Wizard]

urgh can't WG just ban premium ships from the "bravo league" and let the community vote, im sure the alpha league will become some kind of dank pit

[ApesTogetherStronK]

2 minutes ago, Soemba said:

You call someone out for being elitist and he responds by calling himself superior. That's sarcasm right there

If you say so. Looks more like being a [edited] to me. 

 

2 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Feel free to correct me if there is anything wrong I said

 

Why would I bother? I'm happy to admit when I get corrected on something provided my own experience backs up whatever that is. But it's pretty clear you don't care what I say. 

[GulvkluderGuld]

48 minutes ago, gR3iF said:

Why isnt Stalin okay?
 

She get outdpmed by nearly any cruiser, she has a citadel, she has good ap, but you can angle vs ap, movska got the same radar.

 

Where is she op apart from the fact that she is played by the Superunicums for 90% of the times and therefore shine.

If she isnt better than Moskva or any other TX cruiser, why is everyone and their mother playing Stalingrad and not Moskva?

[Inked9]

After reading all this. I came to the conclusion that Clan War is really no different than Rank Battles the way you all are writing. Or am I wrong? If so explain why it is different.

[The_Shungite_Wizard]

4 minutes ago, Inked9 said:

After reading all this. I came to the conclusion that Clan War is really no different than Rank Battles the way you all are writing. Or am I wrong? If so explain why it is different.

if ranked battles was tier 7 and the enemy team all had belfasts....

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Vor 1 Minute, Reaper_JackGBR sagte:

Why would I bother? I'm happy to admit when I get corrected on something provided my own experience backs up whatever that is. But it's pretty clear you don't care what I say. 

The problem is that you don't have enough experience since you don't have a Stalingrad.

I did read and understand some of your points (the ones I didn't have to correct ^^).

Vor 3 Minuten, GulvkluderGuld sagte:

If she isnt better than Moskva or any other TX cruiser, why is everyone and their mother playing Stalingrad and not Moskva?

Because they are like kids that have a new toy? Especially a new toy that other kids don't have.

 

Vor 4 Minuten, Inked9 sagte:

After reading all this. I came to the conclusion that Clan War is really no different than Rank Battles the way you all are writing. Or am I wrong? If so explain why it is different.

Well, in Clan Wars you can choose your own team, you have actual teamwork with good communication (via TS, Discord or whatever), you can choose your own setup in a set of rules (7 ships, max 1 BB, no CV) and ships are not mirrored. There is no best loser rule, you win and lose together and the whole team gets the same amount of XP.

[GarrusBrutus]

Funfact: Scrubs and AAO's winrates after the first CB's session are almost the same. Stalingrad-heavy setup not so invincible after all?

[Aragathor]

1 minute ago, Inked9 said:

After reading all this. I came to the conclusion that Clan War is really no different than Rank Battles the way you all are writing. Or am I wrong? If so explain why it is different.

It was different before Stalingrad, at least it feels so. Now? After today's CB round I have no interest in playing it again, however as member of the alpha team of my clan I can't just drop out.

Now, Stalingrad might not be as strong in randoms, but when it is 7vs7 it is a very powerful ship. With good positioning it can tank and deal massive amounts of damage. Right now CBs are divided in teams with and without Stalingrads, in the future the game mode will devolve into a passive game of Stalingrads camping besides islands.

As mentioned before, soon steel will be sold for money, and any chance of balancing the Stalingrad will disappear. Draw your own conclusions.

[Soemba]

Don't tell them that the ship is OP. So facts won't work even when they are fun! 

[ApesTogetherStronK]

2 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Funfact: Scrubs and AAO's winrates after the first CB's session are almost the same. Stalingrad-heavy setup not so invincible after all?

We only lost to Stalins :p 

On the same flip side of the coin, those Stalin fielders were all ex Hurricane clans too. 

Take from it what you will Garrus. I still think the ship needs to be changed, if for no other reason than for circumventing the one BB rule by virtue of having BB caliber guns. 

[Unfortunate_Son]

On several occasions we got our asses handed to us. Should have played 7 Stalins intead of only 5. Then we surely would have had 100% WR.

[The_Shungite_Wizard]

4 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

 (7 ships, max 1 BB, no CV) 

urgh 5 BB 2 cruisers was my battle, almost felt like a belfasted T7 ranked game or a midway in random, they had fun we didnt

[GulvkluderGuld]

7 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Because they are like kids that have a new toy? Especially a new toy that other kids don't have.

Thats certainly a good reason  Unfortunately I doubt it is the main reason.

 

Happened to follow the lastest KoTs and cross server games to see how much Stalingrad spam would dominate. 

Turns out there were exactly ONE single Moskva present in all in the semi+final+cross server games and that player quickly swapped it for a Stalingrad later in the series.

Meanwhile there were 2+ Stalins on each team every single game (except the final OMNI vs O7).

 

Even the casters commented on it during the Moskva game.

 

I guess after this CB season and christmas event, I will get a Balancegrad of my own to test out.

[wilkatis_LV]

26 minutes ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

- I have enough experience shooting her to know that even Henri AP bounces if not almost fully flat, Moskva would instead be citadeled when only slightly angled. 

Moskva has the same armour scheme with BETTER base angling - armour is sloped more, she's a smaller target, things like that. If you can citadel a Moskva, at an identical situation you can also citadel a Stalingrad. Not the other way around.

 

27 minutes ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

- With reload mod etc. considering the calibre is 102mm higher the difference is negligible.  

17.6s Staling with Reload Mod vs 13.7s Zao base

 

That's still 28.5% longer reload.

For every 7 salvos Stalingrad would fire Zao gets 9

 

32 minutes ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

- Yeah, that's how it should work, then explain why Stalins do 12k through my bow all the time when nose on? 

1) you're not bow on

or

2) they are smart enough to aim for your superstructure

 

33 minutes ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

- And actually no, we beat some of those same clans last season. 

And yet you beat less skilled clans far more often and far easier, right?

Exactly same as now...

 

---

 

There's at least one good thing about WG selling Steel on Christmas - potatoes will get their Stalingrads sooner, and then we all will be able to laugh at "WG has ninja nerfed my Stalingrad - it's not as good as the ones we were fighting against" threads

[Commander_Cornflakes]

He, look what I found:

One Stalingrad is so OP, it can even win against 7 Stalingrads

 

Vor 3 Minuten, Reaper_JackGBR sagte:

having BB caliber guns

Well, that's debatable. The thing that differentiates BB and CA guns is the overmatch. And Stalingrad can't overmatch cruisers like BBs can.

The only exception is Minotaur, but HIV can overmatch her as well and would have to be counted as ship with BB guns too ^^

[DFens_666]

29 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Funny how only people who don't have her call her OP because they have no idea what they are talking about.

12 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Feel free to correct me if there is anything wrong I said

 

I think you know that its unfair that non-Stalingrad owners cant see the specs of the Stalingrad - this is especially important for the armor. I have to guess-try where i can do damage, which is questionable af.

Ofc that is not limited to stalingrad - that includes all Premiums which are not obtainable by doubloons right now. (and even then i can see the armor, but not the consumables / modules)

 

Problem with Stalingrad (imo - dont have it, what i have observed by playing with/against others)

In randoms its kinda crap. I feel it mostly doesnt work, sometimes it does, this depends on the enemies.

In CBs however, its kinda OP, because

- There is only one BB, but stalingrad has much more HP than the other Cruisers

- Its HE DPM is bad, thats true for an individual Stalingrad

- However if you put multiple Stalingrads on different points of the map, they can create crossfires which are much stronger than other Cruisers because they have

faster shells

improved angles

harder hitting

 

And we are back to the original point: You can angle against one stalingrad, meanwhile one of the other 4 somewhere else on the map might be able to citadel you just fine - while pretty much all other Cruisers would struggle heavily (or it would be outright impossible)

[GarrusBrutus]

2 minutes ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

We only lost to Stalins :p 

On the same flip side of the coin, those Stalin fielders were all ex Hurricane clans too. 

Take from it what you will Garrus. I still think the ship needs to be changed, if for no other reason than for circumventing the one BB rule by virtue of having BB caliber guns. 

What I take from it is that its an excuse for your losses.

We lost to teams who didnt field a single stalingrad because they played better than us in that match. We won against teams who fielded four stalingrads against us because we played better than them in that match.

 

Now, if the meta proves to be "the moarrr stalins the better"... well.. after christmas everyone and their mother will have one. Merry Xmas boys.

 

 

[Rautainen_Biisoni]

They should change detection from "one spots and everybody can see" to line of sight. This game like many other are using this retarded mechanic. Detection should be only based on LOS or the game is a campfest like it is now. Players just go hiding behind islands and smokes and fire from there once a DD or CV spots. This way we get smoking mino/wooster combos that are as stupid as smoking BBs were back in the day. Defenders have way too big advantage because of the spotting mechanic. No point in attacking and suprising your enemy when you meet ships hiding behind islands and smokes and they all see you.

 

And yes stalingrad is rather stupid.  Fun but yeah...

[p4nix]

[Aotearas]

35 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Feel free to correct me if there is anything wrong I said

 

I originally didn't want to involve myself in that heated discussion that has clearly gotten unhinged by now, but you're literally asking for it then I would most definately contest the "I am superiour" statement and that's not exactly painting anyone in a favourable light.

 

On an emotional level no one has impressed anyone with happily dancing the escalation tango with @Reaper_JackGBR (that goes for you too mate) and if both of you, or in general simply everyone could just calm down, that'd be great. I mean seriously, if you two were actually dancing a tango with that much aggression you'd either end up at your throats strangling each other in front of the judges or having the kinkiest type of hate-sex imaginable in the changing room.

As for the objective outlook on player skill, the closest we can go is solo stat averages and you can check that for yourself if you don't trust my word on it but the two of you have pretty damn equal stats with both of you edging out the other here and there, so none here can claim to be superiour in that regard aswell. I would also hope that establishing that with both of you knowing what you're doing we can keep the assumptions on who can't do what properly out of the way. I believe everyone who has played the Des Moines can say how those shells can bite into a target at sometimes downright ridiculous angles and the Stalingrad isn't going to be any different in that regard.

 

So, can everyone just calm the hell down.

 

@Reaper_JackGBR?

@Commander_Cornflakes?

Everyone else?

 

No point in ending up on each other's sh*tlist.

 

 

Optimally I'd ask people to share their counters to Stalingrad heavy setups or how clans that field Stalingrads (ergo have firsthand experience) would do so, but obviously I wouldn't expect everyone to share their trade secrets literally first day into the season (by all means though, prove me wrong and share all the juicy positions to really annoy those Stalingrad comps).

 

 

And once more, because it can't hurt to say it again: chill folks.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Vor 3 Minuten, DFens_666 sagte:

I think you know that its unfair that non-Stalingrad owners cant see the specs of the Stalingrad - this is especially important for the armor. I have to guess-try where i can do damage, which is questionable af.

Ofc that is not limited to stalingrad - that includes all Premiums which are not obtainable by doubloons right now. (and even then i can see the armor, but not the consumables / modules)

I agree, it would be nice if WG could add the armor scheme viewer to the Wiki. Until then you could always open a forum thread asking for players that have a certain ship to post screenshots of the armor scheme.

 

Vor 5 Minuten, DFens_666 sagte:

- However if you put multiple Stalingrads on different points of the map, they can create crossfires which are much stronger than other Cruisers because they have

faster shells

improved angles

harder hitting

 

And we are back to the original point: You can angle against one stalingrad, meanwhile one of the other 4 somewhere else on the map might be able to citadel you just fine - while pretty much all other Cruisers would struggle heavily (or it would be outright impossible)

That's true, but the other cruisers have an advantage that wasn't part of this discussion so far: The extreme difference in detection range. Stalingrad is really easy to spot and a team that fields many of them gives up slots of ships that could spot enemies for them.

[Tyrendian89]

1 minute ago, Aotearas said:

Optimally I'd ask people to share their counters to Stalingrad heavy setups or how clans that field Stalingrads (ergo have firsthand experience) would do so, but obviously I wouldn't expect everyone to share their trade secrets literally first day into the season (by all means though, prove me wrong and share all the juicy positions to really annoy those Stalingrad comps).

 

 

Just now, Commander_Cornflakes said:

That's true, but the other cruisers have an advantage that wasn't part of this discussion so far: The extreme difference in detection range. Stalingrad is really easy to spot and a team that fields many of them gives up slots of ships that could spot enemies for them.

this is the main issue here: There's a world of difference between a truly Stalingrad-heavy comp (like AAO ran today) and a comp that has one or two Stalingrads (like ours).

Against heavy Stalingrad comps, the thing to do is really leverage your massive spotting advantage - try to isolate one of them, and/or try to lure or force one of them into a bad push (a Stalingrad dies really quickly if you have the right ship on her flank, seeing as her citadel is about the size of a Worcester...^^)

 

Against one or two Stalins that are just part of a working team, I'd say your best bet is to try to limit the amount of opportunities you give them - either isolate one and kill it quickly, or use terrain to isolate it and kill its friends. Stalingrads are really not all that mobile... they can have a hard time changing positions in a vaguely safe manner that doesnt get them killed due to their combination of horrid concealment and vulnerable (ish, assuming you're not stuck in a Hindenburg at longer ranges where your sucky pen screws you over...^^) broadside. Identify the "blind spots" of their current positions, and use them. Easier said than done against a well-positioned and awake Stalingrad, of course, but... I can't very well reveal all of our SUPER SIKRIT HAGS TEKTIKS HAGTIKS here...

[Contender83]

Just a suggestion, but maybe we need to wait a bit further into a season and people will figure out a hard counter against stalin-heavy setups. As for TTT we just replaced our 2 moskvas with the stalin so you could argue that stalin IS in a sense an "improved" moskva and just fits the CB meta much better. It's very good against players who make mistakes, but I'm not sure how it is against players/clans who know what they're doing. Maybe you could argue its too good at punishing mistakes and needs a nerf, but whether WG would see it your way is another question entirely, especially when they get around to monetizing steel.

[Aotearas]

13 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

I can't very well reveal all of our SUPER SIKRIT HAGS TEKTIKS HAGTIKS here...

You want to get reported for edited dirty trick clanning again mate?

[anonym_mlJIAFnOwMVb]

inb4 mod closes thread because hurtfeels criticism.