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Steel for money, steel from campaign, steel everywhere

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28 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

That said, I suck in Atlanta, and will probably suck just the same in Flint...

So far I have Dallas, which seems reasonably good, but makes me miss Omaha. 

I imagine a Dallas with radar (has hydro) and then trading that for smoke. 

Nope. No way. 

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5 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

So far I have Dallas, which seems reasonably good, but makes me miss Omaha. 

I imagine a Dallas with radar (has hydro) and then trading that for smoke. 

Nope. No way. 

I don't think it's really directly comparable - the shorter range of Atlanta's main guns mean that you feel the lack of concealment more than the plus of radar - at least if not playing in a division.

 

I wouldn't be keen to give up smoke on most of my US DDs for radar, and they're all smaller and faster than Atlanta (and, obviously, don't have citadels).

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BTW Dallas has 14.3 km main gun range (upgraded), versus Atlanta's 11.1 km (a tier higher). Both of those numbers are sans captain's skills.

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2 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I don't think it's really directly comparable - the shorter range of Atlanta's main guns mean that you feel the lack of concealment more than the plus of radar - at least if not playing in a division.

 

I wouldn't be keen to give up smoke on most of my US DDs for radar, and they're all smaller and faster than Atlanta (and, obviously, don't have citadels).

Yes, but you're NOT a DD. As such, you are not very manouvrable (Omaha was...).

 

Just now, Verblonde said:

BTW Dallas has 14.3 km main gun range (upgraded), versus Atlanta's 11.1 km (a tier higher). Both of those numbers are sans captain's skills.

Yeah I know. I think I'm not going to like it very much. But that is also why I think I'll not like Flint THAT much. 

Sure, maybe better than Atlanta. But not 'worth it' for the amount of crud I'd have to do to get it.

Much better (suitable) ships available for me. And not even one of them is 'steel'... 

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I couldn't care less for the steel ships. So I won't buy the campaign. 

Enough other interesting ships to float in around. And I thought it was kinda cool to have ships as reward for the competitive players in the community.  As long as those ships aren't stupidly stronk. 

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1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Yeah I know. I think I'm not going to like it very much. But that is also why I think I'll not like Flint THAT much. 

Sure, maybe better than Atlanta. But not 'worth it' for the amount of crud I'd have to do to get it.

Much better (suitable) ships available for me. And not even one of them is 'steel'... 

Flint is one of the most fun and overpowered ships in my port and one i pick regularly for operations.

I find low range on DDs /Flint / Seattle to mostly be an advantage that allows me to drop detection really easy.

If it concerns you, remember the ship has perma-smoke if you use captain skills appropriately. Basically it creates an 11-13 km radius no-sail zone.

You cant hit a stationary island beyond 12 km as shells impact the Moon, let alone BBs. 

Now imagine a Flint in division (Atlanta+Belfast is probably the most OP) :cap_haloween:

 

Black on the other hand is underwhelming in the current meta. Think of it as a Fletcher that exchanged torpedoes for YY radar and you get the picture. 

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1 hour ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Flint is one of the most fun and overpowered ships in my port and one i pick regularly for operations.

I find low range on DDs /Flint / Seattle to mostly be an advantage that allows me to drop detection really easy.

If it concerns you, remember the ship has perma-smoke if you use captain skills appropriately. Basically it creates an 11-13 km radius no-sail zone.

You cant hit a stationary island beyond 12 km as shells impact the Moon, let alone BBs. 

Now imagine a Flint in division (Atlanta+Belfast is probably the most OP) :cap_haloween:

 

Black on the other hand is underwhelming in the current meta. Think of it as a Fletcher that exchanged torpedoes for YY radar and you get the picture. 

I can understand that you like it. Maybe you can also understand why I think it wouldn't be one for me.

I liked Omaha, could go compeletely nuts in that thing and race all over the map. Not so fond of Dallas.

My son a has Atlanta, i tried it a bit and definately do not like it. I hate the playstyle.

 

I can imagine a Flint in a division. If it's a good team, then they are probably a real OP pest.

But I have seen many divisions like that, and they can be countered by any other good division. 

At T7, hmmm. Let's see... how about 3 Lyons shooting HE into the smoke... that wouldn't last long.

 

Today I had 3 DDs playing that sort of game, I had 1 div-mate in a Warspite and me in Arizona.

We whacked all 3 of them without taking a scratch. 

 

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19 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I can understand that you like it. Maybe you can also understand why I think it wouldn't be one for me.

I liked Omaha, could go compeletely nuts in that thing and race all over the map. Not so fond of Dallas.

My son a has Atlanta, i tried it a bit and definately do not like it. I hate the playstyle.

 

I can imagine a Flint in a division. If it's a good team, then they are probably a real OP pest.

But I have seen many divisions like that, and they can be countered by any other good division. 

At T7, hmmm. Let's see... how about 3 Lyons shooting HE into the smoke... that wouldn't last long.

 

Today I had 3 DDs playing that sort of game, I had 1 div-mate in a Warspite and me in Arizona.

We whacked all 3 of them without taking a scratch. 

 

Maybe what I was trying to get at is that Flint has completely different playstyle than Atlanta due to smoke.

While I can understand stationary island hugging isnt your thing, I wondered if you have considered how mobile the Flint playstyle can be?

Atlanta is a stationary island fort - Flint has complete freedom of movement because it can smoke up anywhere and go daka-daka. 

Sure if smoke daka-daka isnt to your liking, then by all means give it a pass. 

 

Also if you dont like Atlanta, it makes me wonder why you bother with USN cruisers in general.

The only ones i like are Omaha, Flint and Worchester precisely because they can be played without island cover (although worchester is pretty fragile)

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34 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I can understand that you like it. Maybe you can also understand why I think it wouldn't be one for me.

I liked Omaha, could go compeletely nuts in that thing and race all over the map. Not so fond of Dallas.

My son a has Atlanta, i tried it a bit and definately do not like it. I hate the playstyle.

 

I can imagine a Flint in a division. If it's a good team, then they are probably a real OP pest.

But I have seen many divisions like that, and they can be countered by any other good division. 

At T7, hmmm. Let's see... how about 3 Lyons shooting HE into the smoke... that wouldn't last long.

 

Today I had 3 DDs playing that sort of game, I had 1 div-mate in a Warspite and me in Arizona.

We whacked all 3 of them without taking a scratch. 

 

You have a Murmansk ? Maybe you would like that ship too, it is a better Omaha.

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9 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I can understand that you like it. Maybe you can also understand why I think it wouldn't be one for me.

I liked Omaha, could go compeletely nuts in that thing and race all over the map. Not so fond of Dallas.

My son a has Atlanta, i tried it a bit and definately do not like it. I hate the playstyle.

 

I can imagine a Flint in a division. If it's a good team, then they are probably a real OP pest.

But I have seen many divisions like that, and they can be countered by any other good division. 

At T7, hmmm. Let's see... how about 3 Lyons shooting HE into the smoke... that wouldn't last long.

 

Today I had 3 DDs playing that sort of game, I had 1 div-mate in a Warspite and me in Arizona.

We whacked all 3 of them without taking a scratch. 

 

3 lyons wouldnt last long yes, had 3 of those the other day in red team and we were only 2 in div kutuzov and lightning and we burned them all down one after the other and one sharnhorst to boot as well, lyons really react badly to he spam

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9 hours ago, Yedwy said:

3 lyons wouldnt last long yes, had 3 of those the other day in red team and we were only 2 in div kutuzov and lightning and we burned them all down one after the other and one sharnhorst to boot as well, lyons really react badly to he spam

Probably because they came too close.

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18 hours ago, K82J said:

You have a Murmansk ? Maybe you would like that ship too, it is a better Omaha.

Might be a good tip, i always thought it was worse than Omaha. How is it better?

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19 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Maybe what I was trying to get at is that Flint has completely different playstyle than Atlanta due to smoke.

While I can understand stationary island hugging isnt your thing, I wondered if you have considered how mobile the Flint playstyle can be?

Atlanta is a stationary island fort - Flint has complete freedom of movement because it can smoke up anywhere and go daka-daka. 

Sure if smoke daka-daka isnt to your liking, then by all means give it a pass. 

Hmmm... maybe I'd like it a bit after all. I do like my Leander a lot. Fiji, not so much though.

 

19 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Also if you dont like Atlanta, it makes me wonder why you bother with USN cruisers in general.

The only ones i like are Omaha, Flint and Worchester precisely because they can be played without island cover (although worchester is pretty fragile)

Basically because I liked Omaha, and St.Louis. Dallas I like a lot less. 

And yes you are right, it also makes ME wonder. 

But I guessed I have to go through the filth to get to Worchester?

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33 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

How is it better?

Is Russian. Russian is always better, da?

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1 minute ago, Verblonde said:

Is Russian. Russian is always better, da?

I read up on it and the torpedoes (a lot) + dpm (a bit) are better. I think I have 3 hits (total) with torpedoes in Omaha. So, meh. 

 But I'd rather get such a ship than Flint, well, at least Flint seems better to me than Musashi.

Very much think that I'll quit grinding most lines after T7, and will mostly play T5/6. 

 

The point is, why would you want a 'steel' ship, if you'll probably suck in it anyway?

Which reminds me, must grind more Monarch. :Smile_great:

 

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4 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

The point is, why would you want a 'steel' ship, if you'll probably suck in it anyway?

If you're hell-bent on avoiding steel ships, you could always just convert the steel to coal.

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1 minute ago, Verblonde said:

If you're hell-bent on avoiding steel ships, you could always just convert the steel to coal.

It's not that. I'd also never buy a premium T9 ship or spend steel/coal on one.

It would be like a fat man (say 350 kg) buying a string bathingsuit, or something.

Therefore I do not understand why people would want it anyway. 

As in: The Derpitz is strrrrooong in this one, young padawan. 

 

So, the only steel one for me would be Flint, indeed - since it is T7 and I am comfortable at T7.

And that one just looks no fun for me, compared to the amount of trouble I'd need to go through.

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4 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

It's not that. I'd also never buy a premium T9 ship or spend steel/coal on one.

It would be like a fat man (say 350 kg) buying a string bathingsuit, or something.

Therefore I do not understand why people would want it anyway. 

As in: The Derpitz is strrrrooong in this one, young padawan. 

 

So, the only steel one for me would be Flint, indeed - since it is T7 and I am comfortable at T7.

And that one just looks no fun for me, compared to the amount of trouble I'd need to go through.

Easy - they look pretty, and work perfectly well in Coop and Ops - I have MO, for example, and I'm the last person who should be playing T9 BBs against real people, but she's a hoot against bots...

 

 

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1 minute ago, Verblonde said:

Easy - they look pretty, and work perfectly well in Coop and Ops - I have MO, for example, and I'm the last person who should be playing T9 BBs against real people, but she's a hoot against bots...

What's MO? BTW Fair enough for Coops, but seems to me some want some sort of advantage (OK, can understand that)

and think they get it by getting 'steel' ships. Which they will not, plus they do not realise that the ones they want an advantage over will get it too.

But about Coop, I wouldn't really know, the only time I play AI is when I have a new ship, to sort of try it. 

Plus the Operations, and sometimes we make a 'mad training room' with some friends where we put in bots (insane T3 cruisers + dumb T10BBs, and then we go in in Omaha). 

 

Doesn't mean I cannot understand why anyone else would want them. 

But the 'special' of most steel ships just eludes me, I can think of nicer ones.

Looks to me like this:

 

Wanna look like this: ----> Sexy-Men-s-Breathe-Underwear-Thong-Briefs-Bulge-Pouch-G-String-Shorts-Underpants-W1.jpg_640x640.jpg     End up looking like this: --> fat-guy-speedo.jpg

 

Then again, I'm sort of a nutter and I know it. 

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14 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

What's MO?

Missouri - it's the standard US abbreviation of the state name (in the same way that Texas is TX, and so on...).

 

For me, the main advantage of (some) of the steel ships is that they do something that the regular alternatives don't; if there is an advantage, it'll be mainly because they're rare (for the moment), so many players don't know how to counter them. An Atlanta that can smoke, for example, is going to blind-side a lot of folk (hence, in part - I suspect -, its much higher WR; a Felcher that can use radar *and* smoke is always going to be interesting (although the PA ships have made people more accustomed to radar DDs, I suspect).

 

The crucial plus, from my perspective, though is that they inject variety into the game, and the ships one has available.

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2 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Missouri - it's the standard US abbreviation of the state name (in the same way that Texas is TX, and so on...).

Ah good. I was already worried you might have some kind of nerve disease or something. 

Now feeling kinda stupid because I didn't remember the Mighty Mo. 

 

2 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

For me, the main advantage of (some) of the steel ships is that they do something that the regular alternatives don't; if there is an advantage, it'll be mainly because they're rare (for the moment), so many players don't know how to counter them. An Atlanta that can smoke, for example, is going to blind-side a lot of folk (hence, in part - I suspect -, its much higher WR; a Felcher that can use radar *and* smoke is always going to be interesting (although the PA ships have made people more accustomed to radar DDs, I suspect).

The last thing would be true if WG had something like a 'realism' mode (like in War Thunder where you get no lead indicator etc, and you have to go near to find out what it is - surprise!).

But they stick a large sign on it saying exactly what ship it is, and any potato can look up what are the exact (in)abilities. So I doubt if they fall for it.

 

Doesn't really matter if I find them usable either. Apparently a lot of people want them. I actually feel a bit sorry for the unicums though.

I'd like a Leander with HE instead of AP, too. Or a Fiji, and then just call it Ajax. But THESE steelies do not cut the cake, for me.\

Maybe it is because I find Dallas rather unimpressive (due to the almost constant uptiering) and Atlanta sort of same.

On the other hand I could regard it as a Fiji that has HE. Hmmm. Ah well, maybe in 3 years. 

 

2 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

The crucial plus, from my perspective, though is that they inject variety into the game, and the ships one has available.

Yes I can see that one too. I always groan when I see 3 of them Italian Spaghetti BBs and such. 

Or (oh the horror) 4 Bismarcks. Variety is always good.

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3 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I'd like a Leander with HE instead of AP, too.

Check out Perth - no heal, but pretty close.

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Just now, Verblonde said:

Check out Perth - no heal, but pretty close.

I did, but double sized citadel, so no thanks... Besides it would not be of any use re-training captains, unless they go RN = Commonwealth. 

If it was, I'd have to think about the effectiveness of that HE, if it needed IFHE would also be less useful (needing 4 points that are useless on the other cruisers).

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1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Might be a good tip, i always thought it was worse than Omaha. How is it better?

She has destroyer levels of handling ( like under 4 sec ruddershift ! ), longer range torps, and i think she's a bit better concealed than the Omaha. The other sister, the Marblehead, is the worse. Not to mention she is cheap as a T5 prem.

 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Murmansk

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3 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I did, but double sized citadel, so no thanks... Besides it would not be of any use re-training captains, unless they go RN = Commonwealth. 

If it was, I'd have to think about the effectiveness of that HE, if it needed IFHE would also be less useful (needing 4 points that are useless on the other cruisers).

Oh yeah, she needs a specialist captain (I think) to get the most out of her, but the whole creeping smoke and spotter plane combo can be very effective, not that I'm anywhere near being a Perthmeister! The trick seems to be to avoid getting spotted as much as humanly possibly, as you're often all kinds of dead when someone does see you.

If you ever can switch between RN and Commonwealth, there might be something to be said for sharing a captain between Perth and Belfast...?

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