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__Helmut_Kohl__

BB AP nerf needs tweaking (or buff expert loader)

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I play all classes and this nerf leaves BBs too vulnerable to DDs.

Waiting to reload HE when a DD pops up is not an option, and you can't always expect them.

 

What this nerf does is preventing BBs from pushing, because they cannot defend themselves. 

If a DD gets too close to a BB, there has to be real punishment. Everything else is dumbing down the game for DDs.

 

Option A:

The damage that BB AP can do to DDs needs to be tweaked, for starters maybe 15% instead of 10%.

 

Option B:

"Expert Loader" skill needs to be buffed for BBs (-75%, like on the USN special captains).

 

(If you want people to use the right ammo for the job, at least let them switch in a reasonable time.)

 

Edit: This is not about making it like it was before. This is about tweaking it towards more damage.

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Agreed.

Its pretty stupid from all povs

- DDs try to blindly rush BBs despite them having backup (or they even rush RN BBs who have HE loaded on purpose)

- DDs rush BBs and its not really that easy to switch to HE - if you just shot you have to wait 30 secs till you can shoot the DD. One salvo is never enough to kill a DD, even with 2 you gotta be lucky

- BBs shooting HE all the time (Only played 3 games today and ive seen several BBs do that...)

 

Great that they managed to make 2 classes more stupid at the same time :cap_like:

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Cruisers are supposed to protect against DDs rushes. Guess why there's so few of those around. Now guess if making BBs selfsufficient against DDs will make cruisers more popular ...

 

Also, you can already increase your damage output against rushing DDs by a good chunk, just need to spec your captain skills for secondaries.

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6 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

What this nerf does is preventing BBs from pushing, because they cannot defend themselves. 

If a DD gets too close to a BB, there has to be real punishment. Everything else is dumbing down the game.

 

Not blowing your counter class out of the water, and instead having to rely on teammates in a team game is dumbing down the game? 

 

 

Can I start quad citpenning broadside BBs when I play cruiser then? 

Or not having my T8 and lower planes be annihilated by dfaa and BBs when a ship is isolated?

 

Why do BBs always have to be coddled while other classes get hammered and beaten by a myriad of mechanics? 

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Just now, Aotearas said:

Cruisers are supposed to protect against DDs rushes. 

 

That will not help you in a Random game, unless you have a good division.

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I feel like not enough time has passed yet to make an assessment

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Just now, Exocet6951 said:

Not blowing your counter class out of the water, and instead having to rely on teammates in a team game is dumbing down the game?

 

Since when is 15% going to blow them out of the water ?

 

And it is dumbing it down for DDs. Just rush any BB you see.

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1 minute ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

That will not help you in a Random game, unless you have a good division.

And why is that? Because few cruisers play and even fewer yet play it aggressive enough to be in a position to intercept a potential DD rush.

 

What the game needs is less BBs per match to give some breathing space for cruisers, what it doesn't need is BBs being selfsufficient against everything so more and more people play them.

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1 minute ago, _Teob_ said:

I feel like not enough time has passed yet to make an assessment

 

Fair point.

 

Still an "Expert Loader" buff on BBs would be nice. 

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14 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

Waiting to reload HE when a DD pops up is not an option, and you can't always expect them.

Waiting till you see the bugger is too late. The mini map and SA should get the spider sense tingling. They do for me. 

Starting to think I should put Expert Loader on all my BB captains as switching ammo quickly is useful

 

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5 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Waiting till you see the bugger is too late. The mini map and SA should get the spider sense tingling.

 

Sure, so you are going to only shoot HE, until you finally spot that DD, that is "somewhere at the same side of the map" ?

 

The only situation where pre-loading HE makes sense is at the cap, or when you expect a DD to come around a corner.

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6 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

Sure, so you are going to only shoot HE, until you finally spot that DDs, that is "somewhere at the same side of the map" ?

 

No, you push with your cruisers and let them dpm the hell out of any yolorushing DD, or have them light up the offending DD with radar at a more safer distance in the first place. And that's even assuming you don't have a DD on your team that could screen ahead and keep enemy DDs away or spot it for your team.

 

Rather than ask for making BBs selfsufficient you should be looking for solutions as to why the actual intended balancing isn't working and propose solutions to fixing THAT.

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3 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

Sure, so you are going to only shoot HE, until you finally spot that DDs, that is "somewhere at the same side of the map" ?

 

The only situation where pre-loading HE makes sense is at the cap, or when you expect a DD to come around a corner.

Why does the game have to be dumbed down for you? Why is that a DD that gets within point blank range HAS to be deleted by BBs? So you can rush down DDs without worrying? Why do DDs that ambush BBs because they outplayed that BB have to be deleted because just so your feelings dont get hurt?

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22 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

And it is dumbing it down for DDs. Just rush any BB you see.

 

And by rushing, you mean "kill the opposing DDs, avoid or let your team mates nuke the cruisers between yourself and the battleship and then waste time chasing the battleship which has already turned around"?

Or do you mean "rush the battleship which has overextended"?

 

You make it sound like the battleship in question is entirely helpless and/or has no team mates. Not to mention that unless you are facing one of the few destroyers which has the repair party consumable, the point in the game where BB rushing is a legitimate tactic should be at a time when the destroyer has lost a (significant) portion of its health (well, unless it has been torping from max trange the entire game which in turn means that a yolo-rush won't change the outcome of the match).

 

If the DD is full-health, your team clearly has failed from the start (or the DD has been useless the entire game) and the destroyer might as well just stealth torp you until the game ends. If it's an ambush situation we're talking about, the destroyer should have all the advantages.

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Just now, Aotearas said:

Rather than ask for making BBs selfsufficient you should be looking for solutions as to why the actual intended balancing isn't working and propose solutions to fixing THAT.

 

I get what you mean, but to me there is no way of ever expecting teamplay in Random battles.

 

Just look at Ranked.

 

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Just now, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

Still an "Expert Loader" buff on BBs would be nice. 

 

Ive always wondered maybe that whole EL thing needs some changing:

 

- If you have guns loaded, make them switch ammo in 50% of the reload time regardless if you have a cptn skill.

- EL gets changed, that you can fast switch ammo WHILE reloading i.e.:

If you are currently reloading, >50% of your normal reload time (like 20 secs left for a BB) then you can switch ammo and it will continue reloading without reset.

If your reload is <50% (like 10 secs left for a BB) you can switch ammo but it will start at 50% of the reload circle (back to 15 secs f.e.)

for special cptns with 75% EL they can ofc still be faster than normal cptn

 

It will also remove the possibility of waiting till you have reloaded and then switch ammo, which is faster than switching ammo right away.

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1 minute ago, Aotearas said:

 

No, you push with your cruisers and let them dpm the hell out of any yolorushing DD, or have them light up the offending DD with radar at a more safer distance in the first place.

 

Rather than ask for making BBs selfsufficient you should be looking for solutions as to why the actual intended balancing isn't working and propose solutions to fixing THAT.

 Well, pushing with DDs and CAs do not work in randoms as most players favour their survival more than team play. 

 

And why you take away self sufficiency from BBs while you add more of it to DDs? 

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That DD get everything they cry for because they still can't yolo rush.. next thing they are going to cry about HE shells aswell so they get nerfed! for now just pre select HE so you have a good joke waiting after your AP shot. expert loader is a [edited] skill a BB has no use for. so the first volley is 10% of what ever you hit them with. then next shot the pain game starts. I don't see a super big problem yet until they are crying about secondaries and HE shells OP REEE cries. meanwhile enjoy the rain from harugumo.... also most cruisers are just running in the open full broadside they  deserve to die then still lately many many overpens to any ship and non damage pens all the time. now i return to my surprise BBQ with marshmellows sponsored by Worcester, harugumo and Conqi :cap_rambo:

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7 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

I get what you mean, but to me there is no way of ever expecting teamplay in Random battles.

 

Just look at Ranked.

Trust me when I say I know what you're saying, but players not knowing how to play isn't a solid base to balance the game around. There's always going to be potatoes with no clue.

 

However if the playing field gets leveled to a degree that the average joe can do his job, mediocre at it as he may be, without getting instadeleted by one of the 5 BBs on the enemy team, you'd find that on average, more cruisers would do their job.

 

Right now, with the typical 4-5 BBs, 3-4 DDs and a couple cruisers sprinkled into the mix, between the threat of being instantly spotted by a DD as soon as they show their nose around a solid piece of island cover you've got half a team worth of BBs just licking their lips at a squishy target.

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22 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

And it is dumbing it down for DDs. Just rush any BB you see.

Not really - as far as I can see (as a DD main), you're still just as dead if you rush a BB: if it's early in the game, their screen is most likely still there (and effective); if it's late game, you most likely have taken enough damage that AP will still kill you.

 

BBs already tend to try and play as an 'army of one' (with the exception of the noble few on here who can play BBs properly) with zero reference to the needs/uses of the rest of their team - whilst I agree that it's too soon for a definitive judgement, a slight nudge towards forcing BBs to act like part of a team (on the face of it) has to be a good thing.

 

Edit: as an aside, I would be less keen on thumping the BBs if there was a hard cap on them (say, 3-4 per team); the key issue with BBs is more about their numbers than about their individual power i.e. powerful BBs would be a lot more tolerable if there were fewer of them (but that'll never happen for all the reasons we're familiar with).

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5 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

forcing BBs to act like part of a team 

 

That only works if you have a "team" in the first place.

 

So pretty much like Communism, it only works in a perfect environment...

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OK Every time I see thread about "BB are to weak against DD" I will create platoon of 3 Shimas and we will give 20km "love and friendships" to all :cap_haloween: 

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Just now, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

That only works if you have a "team" in the first place.

 

So pretty much like communism, it only works in a perfect environment...

This, right here, is the root of a lot of the issues in WOWS.

 

I don't believe it can be easily (or completely) fixed, but proper tutorials/other learning resources might help; I also feel strongly that BBs should not be idiot-proof - at the moment, they largely are against cruisers, and other BBs; they need to have a hard counter, and that seems to be (torp) DDs...

 

Personally, as stated earlier, I think that too many BBs is a bigger problem than too powerful BBs; the AP changes make them a bit harder to play, so maybe at least a few people will investigate other classes. Of course, I could be delusional.

 

I don't believe that we need the perfect environment to generate at least a modicum of team-play; we just need a situation where it's basically slightly forced on people. e.g. BBs can (apparently) no longer reliably delete every enemy ship they have sight of without changing ammo type - hurrah! Perhaps this will encourage the less brain-dead ones to coordinate with their cruisers and gunboat DDs to get the threat blown up by them?

 

It's not like people can't cope with other multi-class games; why should people be even more stupid in WOWS?

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19 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

I get what you mean, but to me there is no way of ever expecting teamplay in Random battles.

What sort of changes would you propose to make CCs more self-sufficient then?

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