Unbalanced Matchmaking

[ColonelPete]

The enemy teams line up does not matter when you have that many AFK. How bad has the enemy team to be when you still have a chance with that many AFK?

[BLUB__BLUB]

26 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

The enemy teams line up does not matter when you have that many AFK. How bad has the enemy team to be when you still have a chance with that many AFK?

Well, I have seen an AFK Curryworst kill a greedy DD... 

[KHETTIFER]

1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

Do you have something to back that up?

 

Examples?

The fact you have to even ask, shows that it's something that you have considered, want me to back it up, well it's a WG title, their reputation is well established and well earned.

This MM isn't just bad, it's positively dodgy, and you are deluded if you think otherwise, how about WG directly addresses this and proves otherwise, but they won't, they won't say crap because they can't prove otherwise.

C'mon WG prove me wrong!.

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, KHETTIFER said:

The fact you have to even ask, shows that it's something that you have considered, want me to back it up, well it's a WG title, their reputation is well established and well earned.

This MM isn't just bad, it's positively dodgy, and you are deluded if you think otherwise, how about WG directly addresses this and proves otherwise, but they won't, they won't say crap because they can't prove otherwise.

C'mon WG prove me wrong!.

Prove to us that you are not an agent of Gaijin....

[KHETTIFER]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

Prove to us that you are not an agent of Gaijin....

Wouldn't i have to be Russian for that, i don't think they employ angry Scottish people who don't speak their lingo.

[ColonelPete]

Just now, KHETTIFER said:

Wouldn't i have to be Russian for that, i don't think they employ angry Scottish people who don't speak their lingo.

Modern russians outsource too

[KHETTIFER]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Modern russians outsource too

Interesting....you wouldn't happen to have the phone number?

[KHETTIFER]

My games so far today.....this is what i get everyday regardless of tier....my friend who spends a buttload on this gets the absolute opposite....i get 2 patterns that reoccur, 3 wins then straight loses or 2 win, 2 or 3 loses, then 3 wins followed by straight loses, it alternates from month to month, but it's consistent with these patterns.

Am i the best player out there, well no, even i recognize this, but if i'm expected to carry in each of my games, then i'm sorry WG, you are gonna have to pay me for that, because that's a job, not having fun in a game.

Also 3 of those game i did horrible, i know i did and i know why i did horrible.

PS. I can't take this sh!t anymore, what a horrible experience this game is, and i'm sure some fanboi will be a long shortly to belittle my woes in some way or another, have at it.

[ColonelPete]

There are enough players with scores of premium ships who spend A LOT of money and sail around 40% WR...

[KHETTIFER]

Some people, no matter how much of a leg-up you give them, will still fall short.

I wonder, a few months ago i had a match in my Kutuzov, with a WG T10 fail division and they blamed me for the loss, i called them out on it, they denied it and got caught out because they couldn't even get their lie straight with each other, guess they decided to put me in the dog house, yeah that's what i will go with, sounds like something WG would do.

Plz confirm WG, atleast i'd have some clarity on the situation, i swear this game needs a mental health warning stamped across it :P.

 

[ColonelPete]

I am pretty sure that YOU are on their list.

[Floofz]

2 hours ago, KHETTIFER said:

My games so far today.....this is what i get everyday regardless of tier....my friend who spends a buttload on this gets the absolute opposite....i get 2 patterns that reoccur, 3 wins then straight loses or 2 win, 2 or 3 loses, then 3 wins followed by straight loses, it alternates from month to month, but it's consistent with these patterns.

Am i the best player out there, well no, even i recognize this, but if i'm expected to carry in each of my games, then i'm sorry WG, you are gonna have to pay me for that, because that's a job, not having fun in a game.

Also 3 of those game i did horrible, i know i did and i know why i did horrible.

PS. I can't take this sh!t anymore, what a horrible experience this game is, and i'm sure some fanboi will be a long shortly to belittle my woes in some way or another, have at it.

 

Same for me, except I win no matches at all. Its just loss after loss after loss, day after day after day, no matter the tier no matter the class. Now even my clan thinks Im cursed, we tried to switch around teams in division etc but no matter how we do the team Im on loses, and loses badly.

Why would I pay money for this? I have 13 days left of premium time and if this goes on until then Im sorry but I will stop playing. Not that I want to, I love the game, but having no chance of winning games no matter how well I do it simply isnt fun.

Ive tried everything in my power to ignore it, to keep on fighting but its after a while impossible to not get angry, it just is.

[KHETTIFER]

48 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I am pretty sure that YOU are on their list.

I think that's quite evident, oh and this just happened, quality match making, i just couldn't be bothered at this point,nothing dodgy to see here.....confirmed the gutter of gaming.

[Aotearas]

17 hours ago, KHETTIFER said:

The fact you have to even ask, shows that it's something that you have considered, want me to back it up, well it's a WG title, their reputation is well established and well earned.

This MM isn't just bad, it's positively dodgy, and you are deluded if you think otherwise, how about WG directly addresses this and proves otherwise, but they won't, they won't say crap because they can't prove otherwise.

C'mon WG prove me wrong!.

No, the fact I asked you simply means I wanted you to provide something that would back up your claims.

 

Also, burden of proof is on your side so you can't just hand the responsibility to WG to prove you wrong. But considering you instantly invalidated everyone who'd disagree as outright delusional I can see this is going nowhere.

 

Make sure to recycle your tinfoil after you're done with it.

[ImTryingButYouDontHelp]

It wouldn't be so difficult to introduce a small ELO factor at the MM.....but WG knows that frustration is a good thing to sell more OP and powercreeped ships, so they are not interested at all in doing so. Random means that you get different players every battle, and it's many time we know we get the worse players possible in a looong serie of straight battles. That's not random, FGS.

[Merlin851526]

Just a few example of what I'm enduring these past few days and weeks. Now I know it's somewhat of an old argument as to whether MM is broken or not, and no doubt the usual "get gud" fraternity will emerge. However I just don't know how much more of this I can endure. I don't expect to win every game I play but I do expect to have a fighting chance and thats not currently happening and hasn't been happening for quite some time. Take this game last night for example. The MM put our CV captain with a win rate of 46% up against the enemy CV captain with a win rate of 83.68% . Moreover the enemy CV captain almost exclusively plays CV,  we lost of course and very quickly as well.

 

And this one from today A Div of Conquerors just went merrily about the map burning all in sundry down. I actually caught that Worchester broadside at roughly 11 Km and the shots that didn't miss over penned such was my RNG. 

 

[ColonelPete]

In these teams, you were the problem.

Do not count on others to carry you.

[Merlin851526]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

In these teams, you were the problem.

Do not count on others to carry you.

Phew thanks I was certain it was something to do with MM. Well thats a load off my mind. Here I was fretting about being handicapped by the match making mechanic and all along it just that I sucked. Such insight.

[El2aZeR]

6 hours ago, Miblogdegolf said:

It wouldn't be so difficult to introduce a small ELO factor at the MM

 

And what, pray tell, would be the difference to current random MM? If you keep your skill based MM factor small then it will inevitably allow players into matches they have no place in, creating the same situations you are currently complaining about. That is a waste of time and manpower.

 

On the other hand if you enlarge it then it will inevitably kill a large part of the playerbase. The WoWs EU server has at the best of times 30k active players with vastly different distributions in both skill, class and sub-class. This will inevitably lead to stupidly long queue times for more skilled players which is likely to make them quit as few will be willing to wait ~30 minutes just to play a game. The player population is already stable, the influx of new players over the last 2 YEARS has been negligible. The last thing a dev wants in this situation is to put it into decline.

 

9 minutes ago, Merlin851526 said:

Such insight.

 

It is actually.

If it is news to you, there is something called a participation award in this game, meaning that if you just sail around a bit and do nothing else you can get up to ~500 base exp per match. That you managed to get less than that is incredibly impressive in a sad way.

 

Whether you actually want to do something about that is up to you, however from a purely objective point of view these matches are completely fair. Balance is to achieve roughly equal chances for both teams to win outside of the human factor, because the human factor is what is supposed to decide who wins or loses.

[Merlin851526]

4 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

 

 

It is actually.

If it is news to you, there is something called a participation award in this game, meaning that if you just sail around a bit and do nothing else you can get up to ~500 base exp per match. That you managed to get less than that is incredibly impressive in a sad way.

 

Whether you actually want to do something about that is up to you, however from a purely objective point of view these matches are completely fair. Balance is to achieve roughly equal chances for both teams to win outside of the human factor, because the human factor is what is supposed to decide who wins or loses.

How do you explain the rest of my teams in the screen shots? All us crap players decided to get together on one team. The match with Conqueror Division was particularly ridiculous.  One side gets three arguably OP battleships and the other side gets one. And as for the jibe regarding not being good enough to get the 500 exp for doing nothing,  both of those games were over for me in the first 5 mins or so.The Div with Conquerors focused me out literally burnt me out. And the CV crossed dropped me ( I was first to go) Moreover if MM is working as intended with it's famous randomness how does one explain the obvious disparity at the end? Would it not be reasonable to assume that the opposite team would have an equal amount of poor players. Or is there something else at play here? I'm not suggesting for one second that I'm a good player at best I'm average. I've had good games in both those ships over 200k damage in Yamato and 177k in Kurfurst (well good for me anyway)Nor do I expect to simply win because I'm in such ships. The RNG and Teams I get for the past few weeks is head scratching. I mean I fired at the Worchester who was broadside at roughly 11 Km and got nothing but over pens. I can nearly guarantee had it being the other way around I would have been dev struck straight away.

 

If I don't see a game where one of my team sails into a corner or another team kills another I consider it a rarity. Christ I had a game over the weekend where there was 5 AFK on my team. I know there a number of factors that govern being AFK everything from real life issues to the cat pulling the power cord on the back of your PC . But I would genuinely struggle to remember seeing such things on the other side of the map. I take your point about it being up to me to try and change things. However with what I've just outlined above and the current Meta I simply cant see any way to achieve this. 

[hgbn_dk]

7 minutes ago, Merlin851526 said:

How do you explain the rest of my teams in the screen shots? All us crap players decided to get together on one team. The match with Conqueror Division was particularly ridiculous.  One side gets three arguably OP battleships and the other side gets one. And as for the jibe regarding not being good enough to get the 500 exp for doing nothing,  both of those games were over for me in the first 5 mins or so.The Div with Conquerors focused me out literally burnt me out. And the CV crossed dropped me ( I was first to go) Moreover if MM is working as intended with it's famous randomness how does one explain the obvious disparity at the end? Would it not be reasonable to assume that the opposite team would have an equal amount of poor players. Or is there something else at play here? I'm not suggesting for one second that I'm a good player at best I'm average. I've had good games in both those ships over 200k damage in Yamato and 177k in Kurfurst (well good for me anyway)Nor do I expect to simply win because I'm in such ships. The RNG and Teams I get for the past few weeks is head scratching. I mean I fired at the Worchester who was broadside at roughly 11 Km and got nothing but over pens. I can nearly guarantee had it being the other way around I would have been dev struck straight away.

 

If I don't see a game where one of my team sails into a corner or another team kills another I consider it a rarity. Christ I had a game over the weekend where there was 5 AFK on my team. I know there a number of factors that govern being AFK everything from real life issues to the cat pulling the power cord on the back of your PC . But I would genuinely struggle to remember seeing such things on the other side of the map. I take your point about it being up to me to try and change things. However with what I've just outlined above and the current Meta I simply cant see any way to achieve this. 

Bottom line is that less than 1000XP on a defeat in a T-X is equal of not pulling your weight in the match... Of course you can be stuck with a team of whom 50 % decides to suicide within 5 min.

[Tyrendian89]

2 hours ago, Merlin851526 said:

Moreover if MM is working as intended with it's famous randomness how does one explain the obvious disparity at the end? Would it not be reasonable to assume that the opposite team would have an equal amount of poor players.

 

 

no. If that were the case, it wouldn't be random, but weighted or even pre-determined. Random means you're all but guaranteed to have things randomly stacked in favour of one side or the other every match - but over a large enough sample size, the only common denominator between all of those randomly stacked matches is still only one thing: You, and whether you with your own skill contribute to things being stacked in your team's favour or against it in any given match. So over a large enough sample size, you and no one (and nothing) else is responsible for your winrate - that is exactly what random matchmaking means.

[Merlin851526]

2 hours ago, hgbn_dk said:

Bottom line is that less than 1000XP on a defeat in a T-X is equal of not pulling your weight in the match... Of course you can be stuck with a team of whom 50 % decides to suicide within 5 min.

Where did you get this figure out of? I have outlined extensively as to what happened with the examples of a few games in last couple of days. You can clearly see the exp earned with said examples of the rest of the teams I was on. However you conclude that I'm not pulling my weight really. It's hard to pull ones weight when your crossed dropped by a unicum CV in a battleship that has terrible torpedo protection (to give just one example). And not only you another contributor said I was the problem by just glancing at the screenshots and went on to state that I wanted to be carried by the team. How he came to that conclusion has me stumped I must say. No doubt there will be more admirals coming out of the bilges to tell me all is well it's me sigh. The elephant in the room is MM is not working as intended for a lot of players not just me. I acknowledge that they are skilled players out there, way better than me. My bone of contention is that they appear to be on one team namely the opposing one. How do we explain the roll over games the stomps the utter defeats. Is MM working as intended there? I bet if you tried you'd find it difficult to remember the last time you had a down to wire close game.Maybe you wouldn't but I certainly would and I'm playing this game regularly for the past 3 years.

[ColonelPete]

Less than 500 XP is just bad play.

If your ship is bad vs CV, look for protection.

[Cazbol]

I'm still waiting for someone to post that the matchmaker must be broken because the poster is winning too much.

 

It's typically human to attribute our successes to our own ability, while our failures must be due to some external factors.  Those external factors may include gods, demons and software that's developed specifically with you in mind to ensure your loss.

 

As has been said repeatedly, the WoWS matchmaker is trying to match the teams in terms of ship tiers and class.  It's absolutely not trying to match the teams in terms of player skill.

 

The fact that you played well but still lost is completely normal.  Long losing streaks are perfectly normal, just like long winning streaks.

 

Suspecting gaming companies of being crafty in their monetization can be considered healthy scepticism, but coming to the conclusion that the matchmaker is favouring better paying customers should require something to support it.  My experience with the game contradicts that conspiracy theory.  I spent more on the game at the start, mainly on port slots because I kept all my ships and one gets new ships quickly at the start.  My win rate was poor.  Once I hit tier 7 in the German and French lines, my win rate was around 47%, if I remember correctly.  That's when I decided to back to he lower tiers and learn to use each ship at each tier, instead of rushing through some grind.  Over the course of a year my win rate is crept up to 54%.  My spending has decreased, which is negatively correlated to my increased win rate.  Instead, the win rate seems to be affected by the time I've spent on the game trying to improve myself.