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gopher31

How good is the Tirpitz now

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I have just received a Tirpitz black.

I was comparing it's stats to the Massachusetts black.

 

One is at the top of the T8 battleships standings and one is at the bottom.

Tirpitz does 20,000 less damage per battle on average.

 

I was aware that the normal Tirpitz performed badly but I assumed it was inexperienced players buying it causing it's stats to go down.

 

However, in this event I'd expect those buying the Tirpitz  and Massachusetts black would be the same kind of players.

 

Why then such a difference?

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1) Tirpitz = old ship, Massachusetts = new ship => power creep and many experienced players will already have Tirpitz in port and opt for the newer ship.

2) Not all Tirpitz B or Massachusetts B are bought ships, you can get them with luck too.

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Most players I see using the Tirpitz tend to rush the centre of the map straight away and get killed fast. I think many do it using the ship as just a credit earner for playing top T10 ships. So not surprised the stats are bad for it. The Massa (as already said) is a pretty new ship in comparison, so guess most are playing that more proper as their main ship. I have noticed in games that the Tirpitz always seems to burn dead easy

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25 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

One is at the top of the T8 battleships standings and one is at the bottom.

Tirpitz does 20,000 less damage per battle on average. 

The Massa has bigger calibre guns, and more of them (9) than the Tirpitz (8). No surprise the Massa does more damage with main guns. But the Tirpitz does have Torps and a slightly longer firing range, plus it is faster than the Massa. So there is the difference. Massa is all about the bigger guns. The Tirpitz is about the Torps + Smaller Guns

 

Both are about the same with Secondary guns and range

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26 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I was aware that the normal Tirpitz performed badly but I assumed it was inexperienced players buying it causing it's stats to go down.

 

For the Tirpitz B vs Massa B it's gun size as neither ship has been out long enough for potatoes to have a big enough effect yet.

 

For original Tirpitz vs Original Massa, the Tirpitz is one of the oldest Premiums and it's been around for a long time and had no other T8 BB competition so it had a constant stream of poor/mediocre players using it where as Massa is relatively new and in a T8 BB flooded shop so there's less chance of uber potatoes picking it and, TBH, there are a lot more "better" players around now than 3 years ago.

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19 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

 

For the Tirpitz B vs Massa B it's gun size as neither ship has been out long enough for potatoes to have a big enough effect yet.

 

For original Tirpitz vs Original Massa, the Tirpitz is one of the oldest Premiums and it's been around for a long time and had no other T8 BB competition so it had a constant stream of poor/mediocre players using it where as Massa is relatively new and in a T8 BB flooded shop so there's less chance of uber potatoes picking it and, TBH, there are a lot more "better" players around now than 3 years ago.

Hence the Tirpitz's old nickname "Derpitz" :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Actually had a lot of fun in mine back in the day, was my first premium I think, good close in brawler at the time, but as you say we've had plenty of other Tier 8 BB's since then so it suffers with age by comparison, didn't stop me from getting the "Norwegian Fjord" camo the other day though, always hated the stock one.

 

Didn't have Tier9/10's to contend with either, a lot of new players did buy her because she was the only good Tier 8 Premium

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I am happy I received this in a crate. 

I've been fairly successful but I had Bismarck as my main for months.

 

The torps are absolutely useless, the best part about them is that other battleships will turn broadside to not let you use them!

 

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8 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I am happy I received this in a crate. 

I've been fairly successful but I had Bismarck as my main for months.

 

The torps are absolutely useless, the best part about them is that other battleships will turn broadside to not let you use them!

 

That's the thing, most people know the Tirpitz has torps now, time to use them is if you are up close and personal, broadside to broadside, they are not meant to let you emulate a Japanese torp boat.

 

Depends on your playstyle, if it's aggressive with good secondaries build it's a lot of fun, dispersion doesn't matter either close in.

 

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8 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I am happy I received this in a crate. 

I've been fairly successful but I had Bismarck as my main for months.

 

The torps are absolutely useless, the best part about them is that other battleships will turn broadside to not let you use them!

 

They are great for a drive-bye.

 

 

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Bit old but still good, note as it says that even in 2016 Tirpitz was viewed as a noobs ship, hence the crap overall scores, it is a good ship though, suffers by misuse and large numbers of inexperienced players playing her over the years dragging her scores down.

 

Like he says if you want to snipe from range get something Japanese.

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That is true. I was considering getting the Vanguard until looking close at it and seeing it offers nothing really, except a good rudder shift time. Not exactly a worthwhile reason to buy it unless you're planning on dodging torps all game. :Smile_amazed:

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In case anyone doesn't know, Vanguard has inferior armour and firing angles.

 

From the games I've played it would seem whilst Vanguard's guns are more accurate, they have far worse penetration characteristics. 

 

Plus Vanguard has no torps so can't do brawling rushes like Tirp, in fact even if Vanguard DID have torps you would get nuked way before you get into launch range since the armour is so poor. 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, GaryThomasBolton said:

That is true. I was considering getting the Vanguard until looking close at it and seeing it offers nothing really, except a good rudder shift time. Not exactly a worthwhile reason to buy it.

I got one mainly because I wanted the Dreadnought, and it was my patriotic duty :Smile_teethhappy:, but have to say compared to my Monarch it really doesn't feel that special apart from better AA and as you say rudder shift.

 

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5 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

In case anyone doesn't know, Vanguard has inferior armour and firing angles.

 

From the games I've played it would seem whilst Vanguard's guns are more accurate, they have far worse penetration characteristics. 

 

Plus Vanguard has no torps so can't do brawling rushes like Tirp, in fact even if Vanguard DID have torps you would get nuked way before you get into launch range since the armour is so poor. 

 

 

I read Vanguard fits in at mid  range, must say from the games I've played it does seem happier there, island hugging if at all possible.

 

AP is pant's tend to run with HE mostly

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7 minutes ago, arcticstorm123 said:

I read Vanguard fits in at mid  range, must say from the games I've played it does seem happier there, island hugging if at all possible.

 

AP is pant's tend to run with HE mostly

Well that's actually Vanguard's main issue. You are forced to be mid range because of your decent accuracy but poor armour. But the firing angles and bad AP makes this not so fun.

 

It also makes Vanguard a very ineffective BB as you simply cannot push with any sort of conviction behind it. Whilst some other T8 BB have thick armour or 6 16" guns whilst bow in, all Vanguard has is mediocre armour,  and 4 forward firing 15" guns that won't do much damage anyway. So you stay with your one comfortable range and hope you out DPM the enemy... 

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18 minutes ago, arcticstorm123 said:

I got one mainly because I wanted the Dreadnought, and it was my patriotic duty :Smile_teethhappy:, but have to say compared to my Monarch it really doesn't feel that special apart from better AA and as you say rudder shift.

 

Yeah Vanguard's AP is crap, I tend to use HE unless up close and personal

I'm British, so I mainly only want to buy Brit premiums and already have the Hood, also had Warsprite but sold that on since. Was too slow for me that ship! Wasn't bothered about that Dreadnought ship, it's only a low tier ship so would never have used it as a credit earner. Thing with the Vanguard, like the Hood and Warsprite it's a 4 turret (2 gun per turret layout - only 8 guns) which is no different from the Hood and Warsprite. Had they released a T8 Brit premium with 3 gun or 4 gun per turret (similar to DOY) I'd have bought it. But don't like these Brit BB ships with only 2 gun turret layouts. Not so bad if having 5 turrets (10 guns) in total. But 8 guns is too lacking really, and many have pointed that out after buying the Vanguard. I already knew that and why I avoided buying it, just another Warsprite/Hood with same 8 gun layout.

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5 minutes ago, GaryThomasBolton said:

I'm British, so I mainly only want to buy Brit premiums and already have the Hood, also had Warsprite but sold that on since. Was too slow for me that ship! Wasn't bothered about that Dreadnought ship, it's only a low tier ship so would never have used it as a credit earner. Thing with the Vanguard, like the Hood and Warsprite it's a 4 turret (2 gun per turret layout - only 8 guns) which is no different from the Hood and Warsprite. Had they released a T8 Brit premium with 3 gun or 4 gun per turret (similar to DOY) I'd have bought it. But don't like these Brit BB ships with only 2 gun turret layouts. Not so bad if having 5 turrets (10 guns) in total. But 8 guns is too lacking really, and many have pointed that out after buying the Vanguard. I already knew that and why I avoided buying it, just another Warsprite/Hood with same 8 gun layout.

The best RN BB Prem is either Hood or Nelson, depending if you like a solid 32 knot super tank or a glass cannon fatty with 9x16" guns... I think I'd rather play Warspite than Vanguard. 

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11 minutes ago, GaryThomasBolton said:

I'm British, so I mainly only want to buy Brit premiums and already have the Hood, also had Warsprite but sold that on since. Was too slow for me that ship! Wasn't bothered about that Dreadnought ship, it's only a low tier ship so would never have used it as a credit earner. Thing with the Vanguard, like the Hood and Warsprite it's a 4 turret (2 gun per turret layout - only 8 guns) which is rno different from the Hood and Warsprite. Had they released a T8 Brit premium with 3 gun per turret (similar to DOY) I'd have bought it. But don't like these Brit BB ships with only 2 gun turret layouts. Not so bad if having 5 turrets (10 guns). But 8 guns is too lacking really.

Yeah Warspite was another old premium just after Tirpitz was released, which I had from the beginning, turret rotation was chronic like 70 odd seconds for full rotation, but they have eased that a bit now.

 

I  haven't played it lately but it had good dispersion, when I used it regularly had a lot of fun detonating cruisers at range using the spotter (those clowns who think "I'm behind an island no one can see me sitting here stationary").

 

Hood is a good ship which gets a lot of hate for some reason, I find it citadel's other ships nicely, it feels like a Scharnhorst kind of gameplay but without torps.

 

None of the British ships are earth shattering though, think WG hates us (the guy who did the cossack obviously didn't get the memo) 

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9 minutes ago, arcticstorm123 said:

None of the British ships are earth shattering though, think WG hates us (the guy who did the cossack obviously didn't get the memo)  

Lol, how long did we wait for a T8 premium tank in WOT to come also, years while all other nations have one or more T8 heavy tanks for sale. I do get this "thing" where it looks like WG doesn't want to give the Brits anything "decent" (that can really compete) at the right Tier level 8.:Smile-angry:

 

Ironically I went and bought the Massa B other day instead. Not because I wanted an American BB to play, but because I wanted a decent T8 premium with some good things about it that the Brits don't have.

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7 minutes ago, arcticstorm123 said:

Hood is a good ship which gets a lot of hate for some reason, I find it citadel's other ships nicely, it feels like a Scharnhorst kind of gameplay but without torps.

 

None of the British ships are earth shattering though

Hood is life...

 

Somehow I find it utterly awesome to play, I don't even idolise the real thing. 


It's speed offers huge tactical flexibility along with an armour pattern and really steep firing angles. Plus I find the sAP it has with the better normalization angles very consistent. 

 

Then again Vanguard "should" simply be a Lion class with 15" guns so WG have likely messed up somewhere...

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I play World of Warplanes more than Warships lately, but it's the same there, it's either the Spitfire or the Hornet in the British grindable line at tier 8 (both good planes within the game actually), though they have introduced Hurricanes lower down, whereas the Germans Russians and Americans have a multitude of nice planes with different roles.

 

I hear Warplanes is produced by a different company in Belarus which is probably why the British aircraft aren't totally nerfed.

 

Never played World of Tanks, was warned off by a friend who said chat and play was toxic, and full of 12 year olds :Smile_teethhappy:

 

 

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I like my Hood. I was caught between getting the DOY or Hood. I was going to get the DOY for the gun layout. But after reading all the terrible comments about it went with the Hood even though I didn't fancy it's 8 gun layout spread across a long ship. But ends up it's fun to play. Fast to get around to different places on map and escapes being fired at pretty well too when needed. All in all a fun ship and it can take some punishment as well. But still dislike it only having 8 guns, which is why I won't buy another Brit premium with same 8 gun layout

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41 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

In case anyone doesn't know, Vanguard has inferior armour and firing angles.

 

From the games I've played it would seem whilst Vanguard's guns are more accurate, they have far worse penetration characteristics. 

Tirpitz has 10mm more penetration than Vanguard at 15km....

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Just now, GaryThomasBolton said:

I like my Hood. I was caught between getting the DOY or Hood. I was going to get the DOY for the gun layout. But after reading all the terrible comments about it went with the Hood even though I didn't fancy it's 8 gun layout spread across a long ship. But ends up it's fun to play. Fast to get around to different places on map and escape being fired at pretty well. All in all a fun ship and it can take some punishment too. But still dislike it only having 8 guns.

The length of the ship actually gives Hood her awesome firing angles, you can fire from nearly bow in angles...

 

DoY is "ok" but I was fortunate enough to have grinded it out last Christmas. It's a slightly nerfed KGV.

 

Oh and to everyone even though this isn't even an RN BB  topic: I'd imagine WG might have 1 more overpriced RN BB Prem in them, it's possible they could release a buffed KGV class with heavier armour that slots into T8. Then again they've had their KGV class Prem with DoY.... 

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