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thiextar

How to citadel cruisers like seattle

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So ive just recently got myself a kronshtadt(Op as all hell), and ive had a few situations with both this ship and battleships where ive shot at broadside seattles, and the shells seem to land right on its citadel, but i only get overpens. I assume this is because its so thinly armored that my shells dont have time to explode inside the ship, so i guess my question is:

 

Is there some consistent way to citadel these thinly armored cruisers, or is it better to just load he if i have got very large guns?

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6 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Is there some consistent way to citadel these thinly armored cruisers, or is it better to just load he if i have got very large guns?

  • Get them to angle a bit. Not only this increases their effective armour thickness, but also gives your shell a longer path through the ship - less chances of arming and still overpening
  • Firing from longer range (and no, I'm not saying this is a good option) as your shells will have slowed down more + the fall angle may elongate the shells path through the ship
  • RN BB sAP - for example Conq might be the best BB a t10 to citadel a Wooster
  • Underwater hits, as unreliable as aiming for those would be with BBs dispersion. Hitting the water instantly arms the fuse, so if you do that next to the ship chances are shell explodes in it
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I rather feel that the citadel is sitting too low in the water, and the citadel deck is too heavily armored. So if you dont hit right at the waterline, you only hit the 25mm armor plating, shell doesnt arm, bounces off the citadel deck and exits the ship.

 

I mean you could overpen the citadel, but not sure if that happens so often... i had a Dallas broadsiding my Nelson once, and i only got overpens. With sAP that shouldnt happen when i hit the citadel.

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I've made topics about this before. I think they are looking at some aspects of it at least.

 

Only practical way now is to wait for them to angle a bit.

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19 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

I rather feel that the citadel is sitting too low in the water, and the citadel deck is too heavily armored. So if you dont hit right at the waterline, you only hit the 25mm armor plating, shell doesnt arm, bounces off the citadel deck and exits the ship.

 

I mean you could overpen the citadel, but not sure if that happens so often... i had a Dallas broadsiding my Nelson once, and i only got overpens. With sAP that shouldnt happen when i hit the citadel.

That might be a challenge in itself with Kronstadt guns, won't say another word about it :Smile_trollface:

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Ive just unlocked and played the seattle yesterday and in two out of three games I got citadelled while angled.

So I think that is your answer. Wait for them to not show their broadside and voila!

 

 

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First of kronshtaht is not OP , its an unreliable POS that only does somewhat reliable damage to Battleships

 

Now i got that out of the way

 

lZ3CGkO.png&key=9c1e3d3c822036855bebf674ZB9xeHS.png&key=24832ce8f84124da6f42a296

 

Get used to the overpens 

 

 

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Seattle is one of those ships, thats totaly annoying to fight with biger calibre guns and / or short range when broadside. Would be much easier to have a DM in those situations against you. Asides from the things already mentioned (all good ones): depening on the ship, you might want to throw HE at it. A troll-build BB with IFHE can cita it with HE .... just sayin :Smile_trollface:

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Well sometimes i find with high-caliber guns such as the Yamato that aiming at the waterline really works amazingly well. Or even a tiny bit below it. So don't aim for the actual citadel, but such that the shell basically has to "penetrate" the water first- you'll prevent most overpens in that way. Not saying its 100% reliable, but it works okayish

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3 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Yamato that aiming at the waterline really works amazingly well.

Lol , have fun trying that with kron..

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26 minutes ago, Ysterpyp said:

Lol , have fun trying that with kron..

I said high-caliber guns didnt i? 
With the kron you can just ram straight on the armour, you'll have much less overpens anyway. Thing is; many people tend to shoot above the citadel hitboxes & are then surprised that they don't hit the citadel. If you hit the waterline you're always at the citadel hitbox, question remains whether you'll pen. 
With the kron you'd be best to aim slightly above the waterline, such that most shells dont hit the water, but do hit the waterline-region

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29 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

I said high-caliber guns didnt i? 

With the kron you'd be best to aim slightly above the waterline, such that most shells dont hit the water, but do hit the waterline-region

 

id say Kron has pretty large caliber guns, and the dispersion is more BB like than Cruiser. Penetration is also closer to BB than Cruiser.

And 2nd, i dont feel that your Kron avg damage is that good to be telling someone with close to 300 games on how to shoot :cap_hmm:

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@thiextar

Just went in the training room to test a little bit and id say its... possible

Im pretty sure you can easily overpen the citadel, even at longer distances. But a little bit of angle is enough to get citadels (or be lucky and hit below the waterline) Here are some screens.

 

Spoiler

shot-18_11.26_15_09.21-0640.thumb.jpg.fa1c008b9b3a5983ebe6df5a7b6b1482.jpgshot-18_11.26_15_09.37-0339.thumb.jpg.80b41722e2f5e9f3cbfc589e925f9369.jpgshot-18_11.26_15_09.54-0906.thumb.jpg.58214bfbd7d940d8a78651aba0ac1804.jpg

Spoiler

shot-18_11.26_15_10.16-0970.thumb.jpg.803c909bc510df9eddb475c3b8f68124.jpgshot-18_11.26_15_10.31-0004.thumb.jpg.071c07aeafcc5d0a0295b09b1b7a4a36.jpgshot-18_11.26_15_10.48-0471.thumb.jpg.66493c24d413e3aeac1c831ae4234274.jpgshot-18_11.26_15_11.02-0659.thumb.jpg.4aa13e276ff6bcfda4c9d5aee2cf6abd.jpgshot-18_11.26_15_11.22-0505.thumb.jpg.eb66b37a4df02a5c9b9bd5d6cf70a4a8.jpg

Spoiler

shot-18_11.26_15_12.13-0132.thumb.jpg.ef53f480d9a406615a35ebc0c91c01c4.jpgshot-18_11.26_15_12.31-0581.thumb.jpg.3e83b117fb0424c16b1ebfbef9c20f69.jpgshot-18_11.26_15_13.09-0204.thumb.jpg.735524451c64277e88189dd3705f9010.jpgshot-18_11.26_15_13.31-0331.thumb.jpg.9be5f52656c10ecc01c9ab27e04ede6f.jpg

 

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22 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

I rather feel that the citadel is sitting too low in the water, and the citadel deck is too heavily armored. So if you dont hit right at the waterline, you only hit the 25mm armor plating, shell doesnt arm, bounces off the citadel deck and exits the ship.

 

I mean you could overpen the citadel, but not sure if that happens so often... i had a Dallas broadsiding my Nelson once, and i only got overpens. With sAP that shouldnt happen when i hit the citadel.

Back in the day ricochets off citadel deck counted as citadel damage, when WG fixed that (and broke underwater penetrations by the way) it actually made cruisers great to play. Unfortunately shockwave of crying baBBies blasted devs eardrums, with last they heard being "buff BB":Smile_trollface: They patched that in like two weeks?

 

And overpenning citadel is certainly a thing, especially with those (in)famous russian railguns. Even with velocity loss at range, lets say 700m/s instead 900m/s at the muzzle, shell will cover 23 meters before going poof with 0.033s detonator time. Cleveland's beam is 20m in comparison.

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Thanks for all  the replies people, its been very helpful :)

 

@DFens_666 Its hard to tell by the screenshots, but if you count all the volleys you fired while at a flat broadside, would you say that firing he would have done more or less damage than the ap?

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1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Back in the day ricochets off citadel deck counted as citadel damage, when WG fixed that (and broke underwater penetrations by the way) it actually made cruisers great to play. Unfortunately shockwave of crying baBBies blasted devs eardrums, with last they heard being "buff BB":Smile_trollface: They patched that in like two weeks?

 

And overpenning citadel is certainly a thing, especially with those (in)famous russian railguns. Even with velocity loss at range, lets say 700m/s instead 900m/s at the muzzle, shell will cover 23 meters before going poof with 0.033s detonator time. Cleveland's beam is 20m in comparison.

Yeah, thats the downside of the super-speedy shells i suppose

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45 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

id say Kron has pretty large caliber guns, and the dispersion is more BB like than Cruiser. Penetration is also closer to BB than Cruiser.

And 2nd, i dont feel that your Kron avg damage is that good to be telling someone with close to 300 games on how to shoot :cap_hmm:

I have 64k average in 15 battles in the Kron. I'll give you that i'm definitely no expert on the ship, but if you'd like to present that as a reason that i'm completely wrong with my advise: go ahead. 
Topics is asking how to citadel a seattle & im giving advise. If it doesnt work, i'll admit it. 
But me having a "low" damage count (only 2% under average after 15 battles, plenty room for improvement) in such ship doesnt seem like the most valid reason to instantly write of my ideas. 

No need for the flaming. 

In addition; your own post shows basically exactly that my guidelines are quite correct. You are shooting citadels in the situations that i described, but okay.

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1 minute ago, thiextar said:

 

@DFens_666 Its hard to tell by the screenshots, but if you count all the volleys you fired while at a flat broadside, would you say that firing he would have done more or less damage than the ap?

 

Imo Kron HE is too weak (1386 per pen) compared to 900 AP overpen. So in worst case AP scenario you would deal more damage, but probably getting even one penetration would tip it again in AP favor, not to mention citadels.

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2 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Yeah, thats the downside of the super-speedy shells i suppose

Obviously that requires perfect broadside. The more angled the target is, the longer distance gets inside the ship. Though it still might leave citadel hitbox and go for regular penetration.

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2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Imo Kron HE is too weak (1386 per pen) compared to 900 AP overpen. So in worst case AP scenario you would deal more damage, but probably getting even one penetration would tip it again in AP favor, not to mention citadels.

Alright, cheers :) 

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1 minute ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

I have 64k average in 15 battles in the Kron. I'll give you that i'm definitely no expert on the ship, but if you'd like to present that as a reason that i'm completely wrong with my advise: go ahead. 
Topics is asking how to citadel a seattle & im giving advise. If it doesnt work, i'll admit it. 
But me having a "low" damage count (only 2% under average after 15 battles, plenty room for improvement) in such ship doesnt seem like the most valid reason to instantly write of my ideas. 

No need for the flaming. 

In addition; your own post shows basically exactly that my guidelines are quite correct. You are shooting citadels in the situations that i described, but okay.

 

But in a battle its quite different to really aim below the waterline (and then getting hits with it). You might aswell get no hits at all (happened to me in Nelson vs Dallas because everything overpenned so i aimed lower).

 

Id agree with your statement for ships like Yamato (better Dispersion), but i feel Kronshtadt is far too inaccurate to really hit where you are aiming. I even missed the Citadel of a Musashi at ~4km with it once :cap_old:

And dealing 0 damage is worse than atleast getting some overpens.

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4 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

But in a battle its quite different to really aim below the waterline (and then getting hits with it). You might aswell get no hits at all (happened to me in Nelson vs Dallas because everything overpenned so i aimed lower).

 

Id agree with your statement for ships like Yamato (better Dispersion), but i feel Kronshtadt is far too inaccurate to really hit where you are aiming. I even missed the Citadel of a Musashi at ~4km with it once :cap_old:

And dealing 0 damage is worse than atleast getting some overpens.

..... Which is exactly why my recommendation for the kronshtadt is to aim the salvo center (i.e. just aim) just above the waterline, because if you aim at the waterline itself you'll do less damage using a kronshtadt. A yamatos shells perform way better if they first have to go through some meters of water

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