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The_EURL_Guy

Naval Underdogs: Poland - Discussion Thread

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I would like to point out that the Polish Army never formally surrendered to Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, the army went on to France and then to Great Britain and kept fighting throughout the war.

Units and formations surrendered during the Invasion of Poland, but never the whole army as is implied in the article.

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My fathers cousin a Royal Marine was on HMS Dragon between July 1935 to June 1937 which was based in Bermuda. In December 1935 he crossed the line for the first time at position 37o 53’ West.

 

HMS Dragon fired the Naval last shots of WW1 on November the 9th when Maurice Green, a South African, fired AA at German Seaplanes off the Helgoland Bight. The ship was then involved in the Russian civil war when it was struck by shore batteries killing 9 sailors. 

 

For most of WW2 she was considered a Lucky ship by her mostly South African crew. At Dakar in 1940 she sank a Vichy Submarine and suffered shore battery splinter damage only killing a canary. Coincidentally my  fathers cousin was by then a Sergeant in 101st Royal Marine Battalion in an assault ship off Dakar which waited in vain for the order to land.  Ordered to the China Station HMS Dragon was the last warship ship to leave Singapore before it fell and managed to miss both battles of the Java Sea against the Japanese which sent most of the rest of the allied ABDA fleet to the bottom.

 

Eventually in early 1943 HMS Dragon returned to the UK waters in where she was updated with radar and modernized and handed over to the Polish Navy which had a great need for ships .  After Arctic convoy duty she joined the D Day Invasion of Normandy shelling artillery positions between the 6th and the 18th of June. 

 

In July on the 8th the ORP Dragon's luck ran out Just as she was about to open fire on the city of Caen at extreme range to support a land assault on the City. HMS Dragon was hit by a torpedo which killed 26 Polish Sailors. The crew managed to keep the ship afloat but there was too much damage to economically repair so the ship was scuttled to form part of the Mulberry B Harbor.

 

 

dragon turn.jpg

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It is also worth to say that Poland got a number of submarines: ORP Jastrzab, ORP Sokol, ORP Dzik

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17 hours ago, Admiral_Bing said:

 

 

In July on the 8th the ORP Dragon's luck ran out Just as she was about to open fire on the city of Caen at extreme range to support a land assault on the City. HMS Dragon was hit by a torpedo which killed 26 Polish Sailors. The crew managed to keep the ship afloat but there was too much damage to economically repair so the ship was scuttled to form part of the Mulberry B Harbor.

 

 

 

To add to that, the torpedo was launched by a "Neger" mini-submarine (or rather micro-submarine):

Neger_human_torpedo.jpg

Though exactly who scored the hit is disputed - German side attributed the hit to Walther Gerhold, while the British side to Karl Heinz Potthast. Potthast was captured after he dozed off (out of exhaustion and likely oxygen deprivation). 

In any case the ORP Dragon was the biggest of the "human torpedo" victims, followed by a Hunt-class destroyer escort and three minesweepers.

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I'd also like to point out that Polish Navy was not "caught off-guard" by german invasion - the defence plan was mad with healthy margin of time for implementation and surface fleet have left the baltic before the outbreak of the war.

 

Now there was a bit of... mess in regards to submarine fleet that was left to defend the coast, but it had more to do with overal plan for usage of submarines being crap, and in case of certain submarines - case of not following protocols (during the time invasion happened all crews were supposed to be spending nights on their ships, and in case of at least some of them they were indeed sleeping onshore which delayed their launch when the order was given).

 

Other than that (and things pointed out before by others) quite decent article :)

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Bravo Poland!  :Smile_honoring:    I find this story very moving for some reason (extracts from Wikipedia)

 

ORP Piorun was an N-class destroyer operated by the Polish Navy in World War II. The word piorun is Polish for "Thunderbolt". Ordered by the Royal Navy in 1939, the ship was laid down as HMS Nerissa before being acquired by Poland, before completion, in October 1940.
...
Piorun was based in Great Britain and commanded by Commander Eugeniusz Pławski.
...
Piorun took part, along with the British destroyers, in the search for Bismarck (she was the first of the destroyers to spot the German ship). She joined in the shadowing of and torpedo attacks on the German battleship the night before Bismarck was sunk.
...
According to one report (detailed at the Auschwitz I exhibition, Oświęcim, Poland), Pławski transmitted the message "I am a Pole" before commencing fire on Bismarck; other sources say the signal to commence fire was "Trzy salwy na cześć Polski" ("Three salvoes in honor of Poland").

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"I In late August, just days before the declaration of war, destroyers Burza, Grom, and Blyskawica sailed past the strait of Skagerrak and into the North Sea, shadowed by Kriegsmarine patrols." so Poles in ships did running and left their compatriots on land LOL And just before "war was officially being declared", so they got advanced warning , from whom?

(They arrived at Scotland’s coast right as war was officially being declared)So that is when UK and France declared War on Germany... 3rd of September?

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Interesting article! Why did i never hear of the 30-day escape of that Polish submarine?:cap_hmm: I read countless naval books but that one was new to me.

 

Also, i see a potential T5-cruiser for the Pan-EU tree:

 

Spoiler

eme.thumb.jpg.07ea19604cfcb072694466f3981696af.jpg

 

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"To add to that, the torpedo was launched by a "Neger" mini-submarine (or rather micro-submarine):" Tuccy

 

Tuccy is right these were dangerous things they were not supposed to be a Kamikaze weapon but often the torpedo below did not release properly from the mothership and dragged the Neger and its commander to their doom.  

 

Drmajga we have a British version of the Dragon in the game which is the D Class Light Cruiser though I would be more than happy to see a ORP version in the game. 

 

Of the Ships in the game my fathers cousin served on several most are represented in the game 

HMS Valiant (HMS Warspite is the closest looking of the two QE ships) 

HMS Ceres (C Class Cruiser similar to HMS Caledon)

HMS Iron Duke (then a Gunnery Trainer)

HMS Dragon and Diomede (D Class Light Cruisers similar to Danae)

HMS Ajax (Leader class Cruiser the one in the game is similar to Ajax's 1940 refit) 

Now all I need is a Hawkins Class Heavy Cruiser HMS Vindictive (as a cruiser and not an aircraft carrier) to complete the set (Hint Hint) -(It would be a good special as these were prototypes of all the heavy cruiser designs based on limitations set by the Washington Naval Treaty in 1922

 

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2 hours ago, Admiral_Bing said:

Drmajga we have a British version of the Dragon in the game which is the D Class Light Cruiser

Thanks for the hint :Smile_Default: but we know it´s the "Emerald". It would be nice to have a premium variant of that ship, so if not British then at least "European"

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50 minutes ago, drmajga said:

Thanks for the hint :Smile_Default: but we know it´s the "Emerald". It would be nice to have a premium variant of that ship, so if not British then at least "European" 

Not sure what you mean? 

 

The model on WOW looks about right for a D Class all the Danaes were similar bar the fact that the model we have represents the later ships of the series with a trawler bow which the Dragon, Danae and Dauntless did not have and were consequently very wet forward as a result. Dragon in the 1920's would have had a seaplane hanger just in front of the bridge but this was removed in 1928. The E Class  was based on the D Class but was significantly lengthened to increase speed to top 33 knots and were used to serve the in areas where a greater cruising range  was needed.  

 

 

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On 11/27/2018 at 1:22 PM, 700 said:

"I In late August, just days before the declaration of war, destroyers Burza, Grom, and Blyskawica sailed past the strait of Skagerrak and into the North Sea, shadowed by Kriegsmarine patrols." so Poles in ships did running and left their compatriots on land LOL And just before "war was officially being declared", so they got advanced warning , from whom?

(They arrived at Scotland’s coast right as war was officially being declared)So that is when UK and France declared War on Germany... 3rd of September?

Predicting with high probability an outbreak of an all-out war a couple days before the forces actually cross the border? Yeah, I'm sure that's completely impossible. As we all know, neighboring countries with bad relations never engage in spying on each other, that would be in bad taste.

 

As for "leaving their compatriots on land"... well, I guess they decided that evacuating 35 million of people was a bit too ambitious of a project :Smile_trollface:

 

More seriously, regardless of what some heroic stories seem to imply, losing people and equipment to overwhelming enemy advantage without some equally worthy (and potentially attainable) goal in mind tends to not be a sound tactical decision. In fact, let me ask you a question: imagine that you're playing Domination match in World of Warships and you see a single allied cruiser near the cap circle on the other side of the map. Friendly carrier spots two red BBs and a cruiser of the same color closing in. Assuming that you could advise the allied cruiser, would you rather see the guy:

 - heroically defending the cap and (of course) promptly sinking in the process after dealing negligible damage

or

 - running the f*ck away while there's still time to re-group with other allies and remain a factor in the remaining part of the battle

 

I don't know about you, but I personally believe the "cowardly" option #2 to be the correct one. Having come to this personal conclusion, I feel like I have some basic insight into why these "Poles in ships", rather than being expected to stop the Kriegsmarine then and there, might have been instead given the order to get the hell out of Baltic Sea and head for the British Isles.

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