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Flavio1997

Wg, isn't cossack a bit too much?

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So, yesterday i reached my 50 guineas and bought/unlocked the cossack, put on my jutland captain (pt,ar,ls,bft,se,ce) and did 4 matches. 3 were against tier 10 and  1 top tier

In the last, i got spotted by an asasiho and a zao detonated me (fun and engaging) in the first 3 mins

BUT, in the other 3 matches i ended up always 1st, and in the other 2 matches against tier 10 i did more than 2.4k base exp.

So that got me thinking :Isn't cossack a bit too much wg?

 

Let's compare it to the lightning, a ship that i consider already a very strong dd at tier 8, and probably the one i had the most fun with:

-idiotic 5.5kms concealment, this allows you to always have the 1st salvo off ( but on kagero andds, but good luck kagero in winning a fight against  lightning/cossack), to pick a fight or disengage and to get very close to torp your enemy. In the lighning, this was balanced by the fact that you are slow (35 knots with speed flag), and you don't have the "spood beast" (cit). But in the cossack you are already faster ( 38 knots with flag), then you add your boost on top of it and you are doing 41 knots, so you can disengage and you have always your smoke ready to help you out.

 

-firepower: coupled with concealment, this gives already a good edge to the lightning in a gunfight against dds, coupled with a very good firechance and great alpha strike. This get turned up to 11 with the cossack that has even a 4th turret, it's not rare to score a 4k hit on your first salvo with cossack on other dds, and at least pre-buff it had slow traverse ( a bit mitigated by the fact that the b and x turret are 360° ones), but now that it has the "lightning fast" 9 secs turret traverse? you have always you guns on targhet and you can wiggle like mad and you don't get caught with your pants down cause your turret are on the other side. This ship is a monster and in the right condition can challenge even the akizuki, and you can always disengage with your smoke "on demand". Is also a great firestarter agains ships that have flooded.

 

-agility: you have the acceleration mod baked in (and coupled with the speed boost you can do some really amazing stuff), this allows you to use the steering gear mod, this gives you an upper edge i a gunfight, allows you to do spectacular torpbeats and more importantly: dodging incoming salvoes ( thanks also to the tight turning circles). Is insane how an English/American light cruiser can't hit you at 8 kms if you are running away and wiggling ( tried both as the one with the dd and the one with the cl ). Is the only dd ( with lighting) who doesn't follow the "6 secs rule" ( if a dd is within 6 secs of shell flying distance from you, and your aim is right, you  are going to hit him, even if he maneuvers). And then we add even the hidro, that allows you to push enemy dds in smoke and virtually never get hit by a torp. This ships handles like a glove

 

-torps: this should be the weakness of this ship, but after the buff, it  really isn't. You have  tier 10 torps with 10 kms of range, they are somewhat slowish , even though they are blazing fast compared to benson's( and friends/copypaste), but they strike quite hard, are quite invisible and you can single launch them, AND they have an insane reload, that if specced and with AR kicking in can be around 55-50 secs. This allows you to torp an enemy, reload and torp again and flood him ( and if he hasn't got premium dcp he is dead), and especially the range allows you to do stuff really powerfull and scary. For example in one of my matches i spotted a  bow in seattle, kept him between 9.4 and 9 kms so he couldn't radar me( thanks to my agility, deceleration capabilityes) and nuked him with all 4 torps hit  (2 on the bow and 2 on the belt as he was at 10° angle from me). And even if you don't hit an enemy, in 60 secs your torps are ready to go again.

 

So after all this i ask you again: isn't that ship a bit too much? it has too much going for it. Give it his old torp reload time, now is too good of a spotter, cap contester, torp AND gunboat.

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

 

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Nerfing premiums?

Comrade, do you want to be sent to gulag? Shut up before the commissar hears you!

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You just got lucky MM placed more idiots in the other team. Play more games, MM will screw you back. 

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You see these discussions for nearly every ship in the game, whether it's underpowered/overpowered, at least it's not like the BB's recently (Example the Vanguard thread on this page) where you always feel there's something lacking, also bear in mind it depends on the skill of the individual player as to whether they can exploit the advantages.

 

For every player that knows what they are doing you will see many more sail blindly into caps, or sail parallel for extended periods against bb's with good secondary builds.

 

DD's have a tough time, when spotted you are the most targeted ship in the game, and you have a low health pool compared to any of the other ship types, and in the case of the Russians torps which are only of use in ambushes or last ditch attacks.

 

Cossack is good but I would not call it overpowered for her tier, and in any case as you have to regularly face tier 9/10's better a slightly overpowered  dd than underpowered if you are at Tier 8.

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[BYOB]
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Have you considered that as a unicum player your perspective might not reflect the overall state of things?

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Let me enjoy the buffs before u talk about nerfs. I just got her myself.

Just be happy u have a strong DD in your hands. The tomatoes will keep the stats on her reasonable.

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[L4GG]
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You don't see me complaining about that type of things.

I remember Cossack being meh/ questionable  at best. ( a WIP video of flamu, I think).

I don't play dds, much.

But a ship that I didn't like was Mioko, a dog of a ship that was in my port without captain. The recently changes to the IJN line made Myoko a different ship, more important than Zao's dispersion, the new turret transverse speed made it much more comfortable to play. And even premium ships were affected by it.

This type of things by wargaming it's even more rare than me playing dds. (instead of the usual nerf, they actually made a ship better/playable).

My point being...

Shhh, move along, there's nothing to see here.

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

All part of WGs ongoing effort to make people play higher Tiers. Decent Tier VIII DD given away for free? 

Could be in line with selling tier 9 premiums, tier 8 MM makes tier 8 premiums less atractive. 

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Statistically it was doing very poorly. But instead of waiting the obligatory 2 years and a half to buff it (as in every other ship that needs one), they did it 2 months after introduction, even before the whole british event is over, and well before a lot of players that will have it, get it (I'm personally only going to get it after I've collected all 48 guineas).

As a result all the potatoes who got her and were getting mauled scored poorly with it. Most gunboats do. Even Kidd (which is arguably the best T8 DD) has very uninspiring WR stats, it wasn't surprising Cossack was getting worse ones.

I also wondered about the buffs myself when I saw them. I don't have cossack but have lightning and that thing is broken as all hells. A faster one, as maneouverable, 2 guns more with blazing fast turret rotation and fast reloading single torp launcher?. It's just mindboggingly OP, yet don't worry, it's WR won't get much better: 90% of the people in this game just have no clue on how to play gunboats anyway, if it doesn't have 10 torps and (or) doesn't have 48 knot top speed, they just don't know when to stop firing. Ship will remain broken, stats will be average.

Meanwhile the Le Terrible is exploding in horrible, unspeakable, ways in every battle they take part in, but nah, let's leave that one alone, it's doing fine.

WG balancing at it's "best".
 

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1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

Have you considered that as a unicum player your perspective might not reflect the overall state of things?

read my post again.

How can that idiotic concealment coupled with good agility don't help noobs?

Now noobs won't use their guns and will fire torps only at the white line, but still, every 60 secs they will have them ready ( throw enough s*hit at the wall....).

And still, balancing ships on the average playerbase will lead you to more graf zeppellin and belfast.

42 minutes ago, RAMJB said:

Statistically it was doing very poorly. But instead of waiting the obligatory 2 years and a half to buff it (as in every other ship that needs one), they did it 2 months after introduction, even before the whole british event is over, and well before a lot of players that will have it, get it (I'm personally only going to get it after I've collected all 48 guineas).

As a result all the potatoes who got her and were getting mauled scored poorly with it. Most gunboats do. Even Kidd (which is arguably the best T8 DD) has very uninspiring WR stats, it wasn't surprising Cossack was getting worse ones.

I also wondered about the buffs myself when I saw them. I don't have cossack but have lightning and that thing is broken as all hells. A faster one, as maneouverable, 2 guns more with blazing fast turret rotation and fast reloading single torp launcher?. It's just mindboggingly OP, yet don't worry, it's WR won't get much better: 90% of the people in this game just have no clue on how to play gunboats anyway, if it doesn't have 10 torps and (or) doesn't have 48 knot top speed, they just don't know when to stop firing. Ship will remain broken, stats will be average.

Meanwhile the Le Terrible is exploding in horrible, unspeakable, ways in every battle they take part in, but nah, let's leave that one alone, it's doing fine.

WG balancing at it's "best".
 

Thx, so i'm not the only one who thinks is broken. And i agree also on the Terrible

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Nerfing premiums?

Comrade, do you want to be sent to gulag? Shut up before the commissar hears you!

i know, its too late now

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28 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

read my post again.

How can that idiotic concealment coupled with good agility don't help noobs?

Now noobs won't use their guns and will fire torps only at the white line, but still, every 60 secs they will have them ready ( throw enough s*hit at the wall....).

And still, balancing ships on the average playerbase will lead you to more graf zeppellin and belfast.

Thx, so i'm not the only one who thinks is broken. And i agree also on the Terrible

 

i know, its too late now

It will not help noobs because you can't fix stupid. 

Not using wasd, smoking up / reversing in front of a radar ship, gunboating in the open in front of 10 ships. 

 

Going to take a look at the stats. Didnt think i would spend more money on this game, but if this is another belfast level of ship, maybe.

Doubt i'll get it anyway though as I have enough fun tier X boats (halfway to Daring).

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1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

Have you considered that as a unicum player your perspective might not reflect the overall state of things?

But as far as balance goes, the opinions of unicums should be the most important, as they actually know what they are doing.

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And all above is the reason to play only TIII....

 

Obvious aside, think of added value! Ex. when you drive BB, you have time to read the book as well!

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16 minutes ago, Skyllon said:

And all above is the reason to play only TIII.... 

König Albert wants to have a word with you... :Smile_child:

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These kind of conversations make me smile, I suspect if every player was suddenly transformed into a knowledgeable experienced player a lot of people here would be deeply unhappy.

 

Those games when you "carried" the team?, ......not going to happen, those krakens you got?, .......sorry distant memory, you are going to be shredded 2 minutes into the game by accurate fire from a group of players working together (actually remembering the rare occasions where I ran into this makes me wince).

 

Same goes for selling powerful Tier 8/9 ships at premium, Wargaming is a business, that money keeps the game open and more importantly it fills the game queues,  or would you prefer to wait 5 minutes for a game or face a team of half bots like in World of Warplanes?

 

Truth is there are a mix of people playing these games, some who treat it as the most serious thing in their life and others who just want to kill a few hours at the weekend, same as there are people to whom losing a single game is a major tragedy and others who just  shrug and hit the play button again. 

 

You'll never please all of them.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

König Albert wants to have a word with you... :Smile_child:

My office is open most of the time during late evenings!

 

 

6 minutes ago, arcticstorm123 said:

These kind of conversations make me smile 

(...)

Truth is there are a mix of people playing these games, some who treat it as the most serious thing in their life and others who just want to kill a few hours at the weekend, same as there are people to whom losing a single game is a major tragedy and others who just  shrug and hit the play button again. 

 

You'll never please all of them.

Truly truistic approach! :Smile_medal:

 

Khem... Your point being?

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47 minutes ago, thiextar said:

But as far as balance goes, the opinions of unicums should be the most important, as they actually know what they are doing.

Changes to Cossack were probably needed...  The issue here is WG heavy handed buffs............   Why cant they just do it slowly... Buff the turrets.. if she still struggles then do the Torps.. there was no need to do both at same time

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11 minutes ago, Skyllon said:

Khem... Your point being?

My point?, Who cares if it's over or underpowered?, stop moaning (not you personally :Smile_teethhappy: I mean the thread ), and play the frikking game

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7 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Overpowered Tier VIII DD given away for several months of constant grinding waiting.

Hardly a grind. Those missions (XP/Credits ones aside) are so easy you do them in few Co-op battles...

 

 

6 minutes ago, arcticstorm123 said:

My point?, Who cares?, stop moaning (not you personally :Smile_teethhappy: I mean the thread ), and play the frikking game

I sympathise with your view, just without threads like this one, you'd have more "Kamikaze R - Special Surprise" or "Santa's Chrismas Convoy" events...

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1 hour ago, thiextar said:

But as far as balance goes, the opinions of unicums should be the most important, as they actually know what they are doing.

Comforting Forum Myths, Part XI....

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16 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

Changes to Cossack were probably needed...  The issue here is WG heavy handed buffs............   Why cant they just do it slowly... Buff the turrets.. if she still struggles then do the Torps.. there was no need to do both at same time

 

Yep, why don't just take inspiration from how finely chiseled was the YueYang  "adjustment". :fish_cute_2:

 

Oh, wait... 

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58 minutes ago, thiextar said:

But as far as balance goes, the opinions of unicums should be the most important, as they actually know what they are doing.

Great idea, however not even OP has managed to put forward changes that would balance the ship properly. Because just nerfing it would put it where it was, at the a$$ end of the stats for T8 DDs.

So yeah, let's not go there.

 

20 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

Changes to Cossack were probably needed...  The issue here is WG heavy handed buffs............   Why cant they just do it slowly... Buff the turrets.. if she still struggles then do the Torps.. there was no need to do both at same time

That's Wg for you, instead of a small chisel they use a sledgehammer.

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