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Nishi_Kinuyo

Giving IJN DDs another go, how to proceed

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Got Yuubari for coal yesterday, played it a few times and had quite some fun, so I decided to give the IJN DDs another go.

Ages ago I grinded my way up to the Isokaze before stopping that line, so I'm continuing from there.

Got a 3-point captain on her with priority target and last stand.

 

As a BB main, it'll be quite a radical change in gameplay, so I could probably use quite some advice:

Both on which branch to go for as well as how to play DDs in general.

 

Tanomu!

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I wonder what Yuubri has to do with IJN DD, but good luck with the IJN DD!

  • stick with the torpedo branch, you will learn a lot of DD tactics that are useful for BB play
  • get 10 points on your captain as quickly as possible
  • when you have fun with the DD, consider using Elite Captains XP or Free XP for the 10 points, gameplay get a lot easier with Concealment Expert
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[IRON7]
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Well, Yuubari is pretty much a destroyer (leader) with a citadel, as WhiteMouse puts it.

A bit like Tenryuu in that regard.

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6 hours ago, Nishi_Kinuyo said:

Got Yuubari for coal yesterday

Good choice my friend.

1234.png

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[IRON7]
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I will never stop playing Ijn DDs - I could care less what  one is better or what one is bad (supposedly). Who cares? Just play them.

My Ijn DDs will be hunting CVs, especially the FARCE reworked ones.

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9 hours ago, Nishi_Kinuyo said:

Got Yuubari for coal yesterday, played it a few times and had quite some fun, so I decided to give the IJN DDs another go.

Ages ago I grinded my way up to the Isokaze before stopping that line, so I'm continuing from there.

Got a 3-point captain on her with priority target and last stand.

 

As a BB main, it'll be quite a radical change in gameplay, so I could probably use quite some advice:

Both on which branch to go for as well as how to play DDs in general.

 

Tanomu!

No doubt the IJN destroyers are the real ultimate, legendary torpedo launchers. The very BEST there are! My very favourite destroyers are Akatsuki (VII) + the mighty Shimakaze (X)...those ships...ahh....legendary strong + great entertainment to play. In fact: the fast Akatsuki (VII) (swift triple-torp-launchers!...very fast reload torps  10 kms range) I regard as the Little Shima. Make a stop for it, play it, enjoy it!! Akatsuki(VII) = a KEEPER(!)...meaning ya will miss it the moment ya sell it. Ultimate goal is THE MIGHTY SHIMAKAZE (X)...there is not one other destroyer in game that has such strong torps & 15x of em!!! So, Mighty Shima is the ultimate goal. Tell ya: my very favourite destroyers are: Shimakaze (X) + Asashio (VIII) + Akatsuki (VII)...such great & cool ships. Explore them & then ya will get to know...what I know already: those IJN-destroyers have "something extra"....can't pinpoint it exactly...BUT YA WILL KNOW 100% sure it is there! Great destroyers, so go explore them is my advise. You will never regret having explored the greatest of destroyers, the IJN-ones-tech-tree....for sure. go for it! Ask yrself this: "Can I play as an ultimate dangerous high performance succes NINJA?"....can you?...if YES...then REALY GO FOR IJN DESTROYERS TECH-TREE !

 

(I can refer ya to another topic on offline forums....read...& absorb...learn the greatness of IJN destroyers....great entertainment + FUN wished.....succes!):

 

"Doing some real crazy & insane risky stuff for tactics, why not?"

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Well i do remember minekaze to be a menace. U can break or make games with that crazy stealth. 3x2 tubes are nice, torps hit hard, huge alpha for the tier. Reload is crazy fast too. Aggressive little bugger. I had some pain with hatsu and other 2x3 or 2x4 torp boats. Very frustrating for me it was. Used them for spot cap only, i dunno if i ever sank anything with them. Fubuki at t8 was amazing tho, kagero i didnt like but shima went to 3 torp banks again and i love it. All in all it was well worth it. Now the tree jas changed, fubu is at t6 they added yugumo but entire that line relies on stealth caps and torping the big guns. The key is not to get spotted, not by radar, visual or hydro. To make best use of them is to stay hidden and help ur team with spot and caps. Once spotted cruisers, usn ru uk and ge gunboats melt u down in seconds. I never tried gunboat side of ijn dds so i cant talk about them. i think its a blasphemy. Its just wrong to make gunboats on ijn line. A lot of other ppl seem to enjoy them much. Heretics :)

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IJN DDs are in a weird spot at the moment. The torpedo branch ends with the Shimakaze which, at the moment, is the worst performing t10 DD while the gun branch ends with the Harugumo which is arguably one of the best t10 DDs currently but it's not quite a DD.

 

We need to get the obvious elephant out of the room first: please consider the other lines instead of IJN DDs.

The reason for that is twofold:

1) The torpedo line DDs are in a very bad spot at the moment. They are consistently among the worst performing DDs per tier

2) The gun line requires at least a 10pt captain (preferably a 14 pt captain so you can get CE) from t8 and above because you need IFHE on them in order to unlock their full potential.

 

If your mind is set on playing torpedo boats, I would strongly suggest taking a look at the Pan-Asia line instead. The tier 10 (Yue Yang) has recently been heavily nerfed to the point where I would struggle to recommend it but the t9 is probably the best torpedo boat in the game right now. And the lower tiers are mostly decent boats with a few real gems along the way.  And the most important aspect is that they are equipped with deep water torpedoes that while unable to hit DDs, are very hard to detect and are the bane of any BB or Cruiser.

 

Having said all that, if your mind is set on IJN DDs for some reason, I would strongly recommend going up the gun ship line (ending with the Harugumo). There are rumors of buffs for the torpedo line but fact of the matter is that nobody knows for sure. However the gun line is very good currently and most of the DDs along the way do well performance wise.

 

mIOGN8R.jpg?1

 

Now while it is nominally known as the gun line, in all fairness, until tier 8 when you get the Akiyuki, it's still mostly a torpedo line. So I would get a captain with PT, LS, SE and CE which is the generic DD captain base for most builds.

To avoid making this thread even longer, once you hit the Akizuki, feel free to send me a PM and I am more than happy to run you through your options and give you some advice if you're interested.

 

However up to the Akizuki, some general pieces of advice for the lower tiers:

- stay away from CVs - your AA is rubbish and they are not your primary target

- try to not get into 1v1 gun fights against other DDs as you will lose the DPM race most of the time

- as much as possible, try to not get into gun fights after you just fired torpedoes as your reload timer will be reset altogether if they get disabled. If you must fight other DDs, do it with fully loaded torpedo tubes to avoid wasting time

- do not let people pressure you into going into caps if you do not feel confident - again you struggle to fight other DDs so unless people are willing to support you, just ignore them

- never ever go on weird solo runs around the map. I see DDs doing this all the time and it's unbelievably dumb. Stay close-ish to your team to provide spotting and support

- don-t be overly eager to use smoke on friendly ships. Cruisers can be saved with smoke occasionally, on BBs it's worth it only if you are sure they are smart enough to stop firing (they usually aren't)

- keep track of fires and flooding on enemy ships. Once they repair, they should be your primary target because a full duration flood is lethal

- don't do wide torpedo spreads

- don't fire torpedoes from the second line - there is no such thing as a friendly torpedo so make sure you don't hit allies

- always know your detection range (both from sea level as well as from the air), your torpedo range

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I think you should go for the IJN torp-line if you think it looks fun. It's not as bad as people say, not after the concealment buffs. The gun line may be slightly better, for some at least, but I think I enjoy shima more than harugumo at the moment. It's certainly not 'in a very bad spot' in Random games. You can get good results with shima if you can get good results in the other dd lines. Likewise, you can potato in shima like in any other dd. It's mostly a matter of preference. _Teob_ has some otherwise excellent advice to follow.

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...if you look at speed (!!!)....+ low detect!!!.....+ excellent ship handlings + 15x extreme heavy  FAST torps (72 knots!).....+FAST RUDDER!!!...+3x swift flexible torp-launchers (deadly!)...well, then one goes for the Mighty Shimakaze (X)...since the very moment I decided to play my Shima with 72 knots torps + 9,6 km range (=good enough) I went doing consistently easily over 100K damage each battle....making CRAZY GOOD CREDITS (=having my special perma camo, that is) ....fact is: yeah, they SEE YR Torps coming(!)....but very often they cannot even avoid impact (!)...since 15x of em & so incredibly fast!!

 

So, yes. no doubt Loppantorkel #9 makes a real good solid & very sound  comment above! imho

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16 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

[...] It's certainly not 'in a very bad spot' in Random games. You can get good results with shima if you can get good results in the other dd lines. Likewise, you can potato in shima like in any other dd. It's mostly a matter of preference.[...]

 

Hey, I am just citing the statistics here. IJN torpedo boats are performing consistently worse than the other DDs. No IJN torpedo boat above like tier 7 or something, has over 50% WR. So I don't think I am wrong when I say they are in a bad spot. Purely from an overall performance point of view.

I never said good results are unachievable however.

 

I do question if a new player can get good results in them though. Even when played perfectly, results are not as good as with the other lines.

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20 hours ago, _Teob_ said:

There are rumors of buffs for the torpedo line but fact of the matter is that nobody knows for sure. However the gun line is very good currently and most of the DDs along the way do well performance wise.

Since there were several minor buffs already (the gun buff just went live this patch after all) it is pretty safe to say there will be no further buffs until the statistics have settled with regard to the gun buff. I guess a possible reason for these small piecewise adjustments (Yueyang is jealous right now) is the potential impact of large changes, since IJN DDs still seem to be the most popular DDs (player count) by quite a margin (3800 shima players vs. 1900 gearing players / 2month average).

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1 hour ago, _Teob_ said:

 

 

...... if a new player can get good results in them ....

...I like yr posting #8...great info & great posting!...however:

 

...define "new player"....???...I mean yeah there are some playing a online-game for very first time comin in by the thousands!...sure there are....BUT more likely it is: many incoming NEW PLAYERS are in fact highly skilled general ways allready in online-gaming-players = USED  ta play any game with programmed RAZER SAGA EPIC (as I prefer to do), I mean: THEY REALY KNOW WHAT IT TAKES!.....some even extremely highly performing in other online-games...& now thousands coming in  to enjoy this epic great game!....so the term "new players"....well....those new players...can be very greatly skilled generally speaking as from the start they play their very 1st battle here....do not underestimate any new players, at least I kind of think.

 

Still, my very own (highly personal) stays ta be: The Mighty Shimakaze (X) still is the very greatest of ALL amazing torp destroyers! Thing is, if a players say, he/she plays battles with one of those....one gets ta feel almost instantly those IJN destroyers (the torping ones) seem ta possess an amazing touch...something HIGHLY ATTRACTIVE...say, "almost addictive"...first time I played my Shima it was almost like magic: I LOVED THE SHIP AND ALLWAYS KEPT DOING SO UPTILL PRESENT! true, so WHAT is it that the IJN heavy-torp-destroyers have that makes me so much like them? Is my true own experience...so what is it? Yeah....there are  VERY GREAT other torp-destroyers out there, VERY MANY!....so...what is it??...why do I like my Shimakaze (X) so much, for sure! And I will always stay liking Shima....so..my question: what is it....can't pinpoint it...its kind of extra those IJN destroyers have...can't pinpoint it....yeah great ships for sure , no doubt, cool, awesome shapings/camo's !.....but why is it for me always : SHIMA.....those IJN destroyers seem ta have some attraction NO OTHER DESTROYERS have(!)....can't even pinpoint it precize BUT IT IS THERE, for sure. So for me: Shimakaze (X) will always stay ta be my very fav most enjoyable/dangerous heavy-torp-destroyer!

 

...just sharing my highly personal view on it....

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4 minutes ago, Yaskaraxx said:

...I like yr posting #8...great info & great posting!...however:

 

...define "new player"....[...]

 

OP has less than 1k battles. And wows-numbers would lead me to believe that at least some of their battles weren't random (vs other players) but in coop.

That's what I would call a new player.

 

I am purposefully not contesting any specific affinity for the ships due to their aspect or play style etc. - I am mostly sticking to facts and trying to give the OP enough info to avoid going up a whole line just to find that they have been rewarded with the worst performing DD at t10.

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2 hours ago, _Teob_ said:

 

OP has less than 1k battles. And wows-numbers would lead me to believe that at least some of their battles weren't random (vs other players) but in coop.

That's what I would call a new player.

 

I am purposefully not contesting any specific affinity for the ships due to their aspect or play style etc. - I am mostly sticking to facts and trying to give the OP enough info to avoid going up a whole line just to find that they have been rewarded with the worst performing DD at t10.

Thank you for your concern, but I already got one of the worst performing tier 10 mediums over at WoT. :cap_hmm:

 

As for other DD lines, I'm not really interested in nations other than Japan.

 

Going over what's been posted, I think I'll have a go at the torpboat line, since that seems to give a more interesting gameplay difference compared to my BBs, or so I hope.

Not that I have much choice with that until higher tiers anyhow. :Smile-_tongue:

 

Bit of a rant next:

 

As for new vs. inexperienced:

My account is definitely not new, having gotten that 3-year camo award thing lately.

However, as painful as it might be to some folks here, Warships isn't my main game, but more something I play occasionally or for shorter periods of time.

Same goes for Warplanes.

Inexperienced then? Well, due to my lack of battles, I suppose one could call me that.

But at least I think I have a reasonable grasp of the game mechanics, which most new and inexperienced players would not have.

Guess that there might be a... dissonance between knowing the game mechanics and being able to apply them though.

Although with BBs at least, I'm not doing horribly in them.

 

Also, I've had some... issues... with random battles in the past, with teams being far too passive for my liking, and simply not supporting me at all when my BB tries to push a cap.

Maxrange HE flinging and such, not exactly the most exhilarating gameplay if you'd ask me.

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17 minutes ago, Nishi_Kinuyo said:

Thank you for your concern, but I already got one of the worst performing tier 10 mediums over at WoT. :cap_hmm:

 

As for other DD lines, I'm not really interested in nations other than Japan.

 

Going over what's been posted, I think I'll have a go at the torpboat line, since that seems to give a more interesting gameplay difference compared to my BBs, or so I hope.

Not that I have much choice with that until higher tiers anyhow. :Smile-_tongue:

 

Bit of a rant next:

 

As for new vs. inexperienced:

My account is definitely not new, having gotten that 3-year camo award thing lately.

However, as painful as it might be to some folks here, Warships isn't my main game, but more something I play occasionally or for shorter periods of time.

Same goes for Warplanes.

Inexperienced then? Well, due to my lack of battles, I suppose one could call me that.

But at least I think I have a reasonable grasp of the game mechanics, which most new and inexperienced players would not have.

Guess that there might be a... dissonance between knowing the game mechanics and being able to apply them though.

Although with BBs at least, I'm not doing horribly in them.

 

Also, I've had some... issues... with random battles in the past, with teams being far too passive for my liking, and simply not supporting me at all when my BB tries to push a cap.

Maxrange HE flinging and such, not exactly the most exhilarating gameplay if you'd ask me.

 

Like I said, suit yourself - go for the torpedo boats. Let us know how you get on.

 

As far as the whole new vs inexperienced thing, I think it's semantics. If I see someone with under 1k battles, I consider them a new player regardless of how long they have had their account. And doubly so if they are looking at a class they have very little experience with.

I don't know how good your grasp of mechanics is or isn't but it has not been called into question.

 

All I said is that I think it's ill advised to chose the worst performing DD line as your first. It just seems like a bad idea. Who knows though, maybe you will really enjoy them.

And if there's some sort of national requirement (in this case Japan), I would go for the gun line instead.

 

At any rate, best of luck with whatever you go for and welcome to DDs.

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10 hours ago, _Teob_ said:

Hey, I am just citing the statistics here. IJN torpedo boats are performing consistently worse than the other DDs. No IJN torpedo boat above like tier 7 or something, has over 50% WR. So I don't think I am wrong when I say they are in a bad spot. Purely from an overall performance point of view.

I never said good results are unachievable however.

 

I do question if a new player can get good results in them though. Even when played perfectly, results are not as good as with the other lines.

No, I don't argue its overall stats, but I think I'm fairly correct in the assumption that the stats of the IJN torp line is dragged down by its playerbase, to a not insignificant degree.

 

The question is less whether a new player can get good results in the IJN torp line, and more whether the IJN torp line is perhaps more forgiving than, for example, the IJN gun line? The potential to carry a game is probably greater in Harugumo for unicum players, but for new players, Harugumo is probably also less forgiving and a worse choice when trying to learn the basics of dd gameplay.

 

@Nishi_Kinuyo: just move past the 20km torps as quickly as possible.

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Few more tips from experiences of a returning player, don't have Shima but am enjoying playing Kagero, despite it facing TX 4/5 matches.

 

  • You want to sling torps as close to your opponent as possible, if your concealment is 5,5km, you want to drop from 5,8 - 6km.
  • Don't drop torps on ships moving away from you and torping ships going bow in to you is usually a waste of perfectly fine ordinance (unless they are 3-4km away from you and are trying to run you over).
  • Use your guns to defend yourself or finish off low HP targets, so many IJN captains forget they even have them. Yes, the turrets are bad, but alpha dmg is good for a few volleys.
  • Turn off your AA unless you are being permaspotted/attacked by airplanes.
  • You will have games where it looks like you can't trop anything, it happens, don't despair.

 

 

 

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On 11/27/2018 at 7:42 PM, loppantorkel said:

 

@Nishi_Kinuyo: just move past the 20km torps as quickly as possible.

Wait... you're saying that I shouldn't launch torpedos from the white line? :Smile_amazed::Smile_trollface:

Is joke, poi.

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