Tier 10 Domination Games and Death Wish Destroyers

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

Other times, I've had people tell me to go contest a cap that had a radar ship on it. Like an actual radar ship, fully spotted sitting in the cap and one dude will go "stoopid DeeDee Y U no cap?? - and I genuinely don't know what to say to stuff like that 

 

Well, if a numbnut like that says this to a DD on my team, i back the DD up and tell the moron to shut it. How rarely that happen (a teammate backing another up), kinda says how stupid the playerbase really has become. You would think there should be more than 1 (2-3 if div) players with a brain on a team....

One game not too long ago on Warriors path, 3 DD game, one went to each cap, we were trying to help at B. Enemy DD from A division got spotted in B (which was with 2 Radar Cruisers) and we told our DD to basicly give it up. He did that, and overall he was a good player. Meanwhile on A the few enemies got stomped by our team (our Harugumo came first with 4 kills)

On C however, we had a DM (who died at some point) going on and on about our Lightning at C not capping and stuff. The lightning came 2nd, because he played really well AGAINST 3! Radar ships. That includes a rushing Moskva on the flank. He even survived all game. And we roflstomped the enemies.

We complimented all of our DDs in the end

 

But here is the problem we often see aswell:

Our DDs tried to get the caps. But they were smart enough to pull out (B/C) or push through (A). But first and foremost you cant just ignore to get the cap. Its pretty much always possible to atleast try it and not die. Because you simply cant know in advance what and if something is coming that way. Worst case scenario is basicly giving the enemy a Cap 4 free, while there was only like 1DD with no backup. But without trying or atleast spotting - how can you know that?

 

 

26 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

Despite my WR and experience, I constantly get people telling me I should have done this or that. It's so tiring and frustrating sometimes.

 

TBF, that works all ways, not only against DDs.

A DD is telling me after the game, how i was useless and maxrange sniping, while in reality i was basicly scraping the paint of his ship INSIDE the cap... They simply dont know or they are making up stuff to justify their own incompetence which loses games (most likely this one).

If someone says something stupid to me, i just laugh in front of my PC and tell him to shut it.

[Shadeshots]

All this op does is post topics like this to complain and moan about other players, stop feeding his trolls.

[RAMJB]

38 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

While I have thousands of matches under my belt, this new trend of everyone thinking they know better than DDs how to play is new and baffling to me.

 

 

It's not new and it's understandable. The average DD player lately seems to have the average intelligence of a nutsack, and people just assume that whoever's driving one needs to be told what to do, lest they find themselves completely sold in front of the enemy.


Just one instance, this happened maybe 2-3 weeks ago. Shards map. North Spawn, I was in a GK. In our side (A-spawn side) there was a Yamato, myself (GK), a Zao (or a hinden, not sure, but it was a TX cruiser and not radar), a Cossack and a Fletcher. 

Game starts. Cossack immediately says "no camping" in chat, engages boost and immediately sets sail STRAIGHT EAST. Meanwhile the Fletcher went nuts towards B-cap (where he was radared and instakilled).

The whole west side was left blinded without any DDs, in a game with 4 DDs per team. And, still, when (repeatedly and insistently) told what to, do the cossack simply said "no camp, u move" and kept going his merry way and the fletcher didn't say anything, but also kept on going.

 

Cossack died rushing a grozovoi maybe 5 minutes into the match. East of C cap (meaning, across the whole freakin' map from when he had spawned). Fletcher, as explained, was radared and nuked when "soloing" B (quotes intentional to add to the evident sarcasm).

 

Without any DDs in our side, of course what happened in that game you can only imagine. Both Yamato and myself tried to hold the tide, both were massacred by shimakaze torpedoes and still had to read in chat "campers die, u no move, u camp u die" from the straight-up a$$hole that had left us to rot and die without no DD to scout for us. Talk about adding salt to the injury.

 

Now that's just one tale. I have enough to write a compilation of horror stories. Like the game in Hotspot with 3 shimas per side where none of our DDs ever came close to a cap all game long (and still answered gems like "and why should I do as you tell me to do?"). To the point that 10 minutes into the game, with all enemy DDs still alive, and having put my Hindenburg into a cap in front of literally a squadron of enemies in desperation (we were down three caps), they were told to at least help a bit, their answer was "I do as I want, not as you want". And a long etcetera.

 

 

Now think of the average player in this game, if he sees that happening. What's he going to do next time?. He's gonna tell the DD what to do just in case he finds himself left to rot like he was the previous battle.

Of course, most players are potatoes so the "advice" given to DDS usually is utter crap, but how can you blame people for feeling compelled to tell others what to do when they have been SEVERELY let down in the past by others and don't want to see it happening again?.
 

[Humorpalanta]

You know it's funny. Had a game in my Asashio. Went in cap cos I'm not a little kitty. Spotting Atlanta in cap. Radars me. I easily evade and still spot him for 3 entrie minutes where he is in the middle of a cap in open water. NOONE shoots it. As I can't torp it I leave this cap. I go to other cap cos none of the other destroyers were brave enough to try without help. I go in. Meet enemy Asashio. Beat him up and make him run. Cap that one. Go back to eariler cap. Spot 2 enemy DDs and 1 cruiser. Kill 1 DD evade huge amount of torps. I have to keep them spotted so I'm keep shooting and running. Finally my team manages to kill them. Points are ticking. I'm rushing back to cap with 44 HP left. Naturally one of our idiots die and enemy gets 992 points. They get 1000 just when I enter that cap. Got shamed on chat and reported.

Soooo it's not the DDs.

 

Akizuki game. Ofc TX and only T8. Go in cap. Moskva supports from 8 km behind... Nothing else. Enemy has a Moskva and 2 DM at the cap plus DD. I evade 3 radars and torps openwater. 3 BB division standing in spawn behind island. Shaming on chat "what a useless Akizuki." I go where they are standing. Spot torps, spot enemy Shima. Torp enemy BB attacking them. They still die. Go back in cap. Game end we won. Shamed in chat and reported.

 

Tell me OP what I did wrong and I will improve.

[RAMJB]

14 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

Tell me OP what I did wrong and I will improve.

 

 

Game 1- You brought an asashio. That's bad enough on it's own XDDDDDDD. (seriously your own story tells it all, you had a stupid atlanta parked in front of you yet you could do nothing. Now think what'd been your options had you brought an actual and useful, you know...destroyer instead of the one trick useless crappy stupid thing you were driving). Sounds you managed well enough with it though; the most I see coming from asashio is them dying like idiots or being of absolutely no use in their particular crusade against battleships, caps be damned, so at least you tried. That on it's own is more than enough ;).

Game 2- you didn't teamkill those three idiots.

 

I kid, I kid. Now what I find interesting is "I go into cap, Moskva behind, nothing else"... I'd have stopped at that moment and thought wether I REALLY wanted to go into a cap, with a ship that's underpar for cap contesting backed up by only one cruiser, or rather have told the Moskva to relocate elsewhere, and immediately change plans. Other than that sounds you did a damn fine job. That you won is kinda a given, if there were 3 enemy radars in that cap means they weren't elsewhere, so it's plain to see why elsewhere your team massacred theirs. No kidding they lost (and I see this a lot, wth is wrong with people playing radar ships and all going to the same place?...).

[DFens_666]

23 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

Tell me OP what I did wrong and I will improve.

 

Clearly wasnt meant for you

The problem is, that DDs mentioned in this thread do exist - and more often than once in a while. Those are justified

The idiots blaming you in your examples were simply not justified.

[Shadeshots]

It doesnt matter what a DD does some potty mouthed kid in their bb or ca always has something to say, its DD's that 9/10 will carry your fat [edited]to victory, nowadays i just ignore these imibiciles to be honest.

[Migantium_Mashum]

@RAMJB

 

It took a long time for me to master DD play, stupid was an understatement and then one day the penny dropped and I was like "Ah, that's where I was going wrong."

With a great deal of patient assistance, welcome advice from the forum as with yourself and not so complimentary reproaches when I messed up big time I have become quite lethal.. I still have my Gearing and enjoy my games in her as with my other primaries and with the LU she is every bit as sneaky and more... I still make mistakes but on the whole my results are on the up.

As a DD lover there is nothing I like more than stalking some unsuspecting behemoth and filling his hull with my Torpedoes, for the benefit of my poor hapless target all of my torpedoes are pre lubed for easy penetration... it only hurts a little and as someone on here once said, pretty sure it was when I couldn't handle radar and was getting frustrated to distraction, "Take an hour and a coffee and research your enemy ships." Which culminated in the fact that I very rarely get nailed by radar now and always have my escape route planned...

[Procrastes]

14 hours ago, Amon_ITA said:

When someone during countdown asks “Plan ?” I always respond:

 

“Survive the first five minutes of the game”.

This is excellent advice. Knowing when to take a fight and when to bug out is a crucial skill, and the gameplay impact of a destroyer improves dramatically towards the endgame when there are typically less ships remaining, more openings to exploit and more damaged enemy ships to scout out and finish off.

[Spithas]

15 hours ago, Capra76 said:

 

I think what may have happened is that all the "good" DD players have gotten fed up with the radar meta and gone away and what you have left is all the garbage ones with the occasional super-unicum thrown in for laughs.

 

Think for a moment about who radar hits hardest, the potatoes are bad in non-radar meta so can't be much worse in a radar heavy one, the unicum players can make the ship work regardless of the circumstances, but the merely good DD players can't make it work and end up having terrible games until they quit.

No good DD player has real problems with Radars. It doesnt take unicum level skill to know how to enter a cap safely... or bait a radar with minimum risk.

[RAMJB]

17 minutes ago, Spithas said:

No good DD player has real problems with Radars. It doesnt take unicum level skill to know how to enter a cap safely... or bait a radar with minimum risk.

Hmpf. I'd like to contextualize that. Because when it's one of the radarfiestas that have grown to be so common as of lately, good DD players will have real problems with Radars too. When it's 5 per team it's extremely hard to keep track of every one of them, whether they're on cooldown or not, when was the last time they activated the radar, and even (in some maps) where they actually are, while in the meantime I have to keep track of the whereabouts of the enemy destroyers, how to maximize my scouting in the most efficient way, and, of course, contest caps and actually trying to neuter the enemy DD efforts. At that point it's just far too many variables to keep track on all of them simultaneously WHILE doing your job as a DD.

And baiting one radar can be obnoxiously dangerous if it turns out that it's not just one, but several of those in close proximity who have radar, in a weak flank of  your team you're scouting/delaying, and if they begin rushing you it's not going to be pretty (Especially if you're in a not that fast DDs) because then you can fall into a radar chain. 

I  mean I know what you mean, but I think it's also important to put things in perspective without falling in such absolutes. A couple radars per team?. Manageable. 3? yeah. 4?...its beginning to be a seriously uphill struggle but still can be done, more or less...5(and it's not rare)...that's some seriously difficult stuff to deal with properly, you have to trust on all of them radar ship players being utter potatoes or you can perfectly get caught of a very, very hard to predict trap even while playing with a lot of care.

 

(This is btw why I insist that radar is fine like it is, but that the problem is the sheer ammount of radar platforms in the game).

 

 

[Spithas]

5 Radar per team is not contextualizing it's overstating... you will rarely even get 5 cruisers per team and not all of them will have radar.

Also you never start to bait radars until you have at least decent information. There is only 1 stealth radar ship in the game now Mino. So again it's not hard to move into a nice spotting position while watching the minimap to see who gets spotted where.

Yeah 2 radar cruisers pushing down is very hard to deal with if you dont have the range on your torps... but you can keep em spotted with good playing and hope your team can deal with them.

Map knowledge is also important and not that hard to learn. Knowing the size of the caps and the distance of the closest "radar" island... or knowing which side of the cap is safest in terms of how many ships can shoot into it.

 

A good DD player might not be able to turn the tables on the radar cruisers (like a unicum might) but he should easily be able to 1) stay alive 2) keep the radar cruisers spotted. Most of the time that alone is enough.

[tajj7]

DDs are the hardest class to play, they are the most unforgiving and they have the riskiest role early on in the game, especially in cap games and even more especially in the radar meta as well. 

 

Inevitably that means players will make mistakes and die early on, unless it's a completely retarded mistake (like the other day I was tabbed out in my Jutland and didn't realise I had sailed into 3 ships) I don't think they can be overly criticised considering how horrible most BB players are in particular, just because sailing in circles on the map border doesn't get you killed early does not mean it's any less bad play, in fact I feel that it's worse, and lets the team down even more.

 

At least a DD trying to cap and getting wrecked early game is TRYING to their role for the team, most BBs you see in game are not even doing that IMO. 

 

That is generally why my DD play these days is safety first approach, been let down by too many 'supporting' 'teammates' to be bothered to try risky cap contests, I'll go somewhere with other DDs (safety in numbers) and get the hell out of there at the first sign of a radar cruiser, my main aim in DDs these days is to survive to late game, not do stuff early unless its acceptable risk levels. 

 

Also it seems to me my luck that I always get the radar cruiser on my team that never seems to radar, played a game the other day with a DM next to a cap who backed out into the cap that was clearly being capped by multiple DDs and he got wrecked by torps,  despite multiple prompts no radar was used so either he didn't have one or he didn't know what it was. 

 

I also feel that many players attitudes to their DD team mates has reached similar levels to those of light tanks in WOTs, they basically expect you to take all the risks so they can do some easy damage, not caring if you die in the process. I've had a few players even shoot at me recently because they think I should be doing something that I am not, even though that thing is clearly very stupid and would be a bad idea. Seems the 'spot noob' mentality has developed in the game. 

[RAMJB]

1 minute ago, Spithas said:

5 Radar per team is not contextualizing it's overstating... you will rarely even get 5 cruisers per team and not all of them will have radar.

 

 

Uhhh it's not overstating, it happens quite often. I mean not all the time, it's not really common, but it happens,and it's not rare. 

Either that or I'm really mistreated by MM by putting me in all the ones that happen, but I do see battles with 5 radar teams, and as I said, it's not a rare occurrence.

[Gleb_Reawer]

6 hours ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

I watched a YY once torpedo a Gearing and then rant that the Gearing was cheating... you couldn't write it. For a whole 4 minutes this moron kept ranting and then went slam into Gearings return strike.. The abuse was then epic and this YY just wouldn't accept that Gearing killed him by torpedoes and didn't die by his.. In Port I messaged him about DWT and asked him why he didn't know and he finally admitted he had fxp the PA line..  Thankfully for me these are a rare occurrence...

 

In my YY if I am with an allied DD in or around a cap I like firing at targets whilst they are beside me... I think every now and again I make some of them jump...

 

@Gleb_Reaweras we posted at the same time maybe this incident I witnessed was yours?

 

If the map was tears of the cruisers we might have a match

[Capra76]

42 minutes ago, Spithas said:

No good DD player has real problems with Radars. It doesnt take unicum level skill to know how to enter a cap safely... or bait a radar with minimum risk.

Do you have an alternative explanation as to why DD players seem to have become much worse since the increase in  the amount of radar in the game.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Spithas said:

Yeah 2 radar cruisers pushing down is very hard to deal with if you dont have the range on your torps... but you can keep em spotted with good playing and hope your team can deal with them.


A good DD player might not be able to turn the tables on the radar cruisers (like a unicum might) but he should easily be able to 1) stay alive 2) keep the radar cruisers spotted. Most of the time that alone is enough.

Spotting, baiting radar, hoping your team aren't complete pototoes and can deal with them, trying to stay alive until the end game whilst BB players flame you from line j for not suiciding into caps.

 

That doesn't sound like much fun for a solo player, and since damage is the only thing that counts these days, it isn't very rewarding in terms of XP and credits either.

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

7 hours ago, Sir_Grzegorz said:

You want to loose some karma take a DD. Win or lose, you good or bad -1 karma.

I think that one of the improvements to DD gameplay would be to remove torps guide lines if target is too far/not possible to hit.

I am seeing so many T9/10 pan-asian DD's torping other DD's or islands with enemies behind them that it is no longer fun to watch.

Unfortunatelly that would be an indirect nerf to some cruisers and they are not in a happy place at all.

Trying to use DW torpedoes with a DD selected does already show a warning that i cant hit that target and have the lead indicator greyed out.

Unfortunately, there isn't a cure for stupid.

 

On another note I do sometimes use DW torps on other dds as a distraction under very special circumstances (if they charge my smoke but isnt yet spotted < 2 km for instance)

4 hours ago, _Teob_ said:

While I have thousands of matches under my belt, this new trend of everyone thinking they know better than DDs how to play is new and baffling to me.

Despite my WR and experience, I constantly get people telling me I should have done this or that. It's so tiring and frustrating sometimes.

 

In the same match you will get people shouting at you for totally antithetical aspects.

I have had, within the space of 2 minutes, people shouting at me for not going into the cap, people shouting at me for not spotting and people shouting at me for going into the cap - meanwhile I was just sailing my (slow) Gearing towards the cap at max speed but at an angle where I could spot/duck behind a rock.

Other times, I've had people tell me to go contest a cap that had a radar ship on it. Like an actual radar ship, fully spotted sitting in the cap and one dude will go "stoopid DeeDee Y U no cap?? - and I genuinely don't know what to say to stuff like that

Another regular occurrence are super angry rants at me because I wasn't where someone thought I should be. That usually happens when the DDs on the other side of the map die. Then it doesn't matter that I am still fighting on my flank or that I may just be in a slow boat so it will take me a while to relocate - people get angry and the map pings pour in.

It's weird being told what to do by people that barely understand the game. I don't quite know what makes them think they have this particular right. Or what causes them to have no doubt whatsoever about the fact that I must be a potato because I disagree with them.

 

Another aspect is, when playing at high tiers, even the best DD players will die occasionally if they're unlucky. Random torpedoes after you had just turned or a suicidal radar Mino will do the trick. Or even just that one dude on the enemy team that is playing his DM but hasn't bothered to fire for 5 minutes so you thought it was safe to go into the cap and then you got blasted by half the enemy team.

Heck I've been killed by just having two BBs fire randomly in my smoke and they got 4 normal penetrations on me and I just went poof.

My point is, it happens. DDs will sometimes just.... die. That just comes with the territory.  You are never truly safe in a DD.

So while it may seem like some DD is a total potato for dying in that match, that might not really be the case or there may be mitigating factors.

 

Not saying there aren't bad DD players. I think the ratio of skilled vs unskilled is the same for all classes but DDs just get punished much harder when things don't go well for them so I think misplays or misfortune is just a lot more obvious for DDs.

Well said and this also reflects my experience

[RAMJB]

And in the latest news....

enemy team with 4 shimakazes. Our harugumo pulls in the middle of a cap, smokes up and begins firing.

Guess the rest.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 4 Stunden, Humorpalanta sagte:

.

 

Tell me OP what I did wrong and I will improve.

You switched on the computer, started WoWs and expected rational, sensible people at the other end. Did you not live on this planet the last 10 years?

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 3 Stunden, Migantium_Mashum sagte:

 

As a DD lover there is nothing I like more than stalking some unsuspecting behemoth and filling his hull with my Torpedoes, for the benefit of my poor hapless target all of my torpedoes are pre lubed for easy penetration... it only hurts a little ...

Now what would Siegmund Freud say to that?

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 2 Stunden, Spithas sagte:

 There is only 1 stealth radar ship in the game now Mino.

2, Chapayev. The rest of your post I agree with.

[Humorpalanta]

35 minutes ago, Donnerturm said:

You switched on the computer, started WoWs and expected rational, sensible people at the other end. Did you not live on this planet the last 10 years?

Why? Isn't internet for knowledge, words of wisdom and respect for each other? :P

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 10 Minuten, Humorpalanta sagte:

Why? Isn't internet for knowledge, words of wisdom and respect for each other? :P

Sure, as the internet is the pinnacle of achievements of the human race. And guess what, each DD player is an integral part in this marvelous monument of glory.

 

[AnotherDuck]

17 hours ago, GaryThomasBolton said:

I'm not a good DD player. Tried them and realised I'm not good enough to keep rushing in trying to battle other better skilled DD players and always dying right at the start. So I give over playing DD's because of the mentality of other players towards them, always expecting you to rush in and die fast.

Would be nice to see other BB mains to take the same approach. Don't comment on what you don't know.

 

10 hours ago, Sir_Grzegorz said:

I think that one of the improvements to DD gameplay would be to remove torps guide lines if target is too far/not possible to hit.

It wouldn't be a good idea to remove them entirely when the target isn't possible to hit, since there are other uses for it many experienced players take advantage of. Estimating speed for main guns and torping targets coming into range are probably the two most important techniques.

 

It would work if the filled in part of the guideline extends only as far as the range, and after that you only have the outline of the guideline. That way you can clearly see the range of your torps.

 

9 hours ago, Donnerturm said:

The solution, of course, would be to play DD yourself. This way you will have at least one good DD on your team.

This is what I do. Or, when I'm playing something else, I tell my DDs what I'm planning to do, if I get their support. Which usually involves me supporting them.

 

7 hours ago, _Teob_ said:

Despite my WR and experience, I constantly get people telling me I should have done this or that. It's so tiring and frustrating sometimes.

Honestly, I don't get that much people telling me what to do in a DD. Then again, I tend to be rather aggressive, so I'm very rarely so passive they complain about that. I probably tell DDs what to do more than people tell me, but unless they really screw up, I don't tend to tell them they're wrong even if they don't do as I say.

 

I also hear more people yelling at DDs when I play other ships. Usually I speak up to defend the DD then, such as someone telling a DD to rush C on Mountain Range early in the match, which is an almost certain radar trap waiting to happen.

[Migantium_Mashum]

3 hours ago, Donnerturm said:

Now what would Siegmund Freud say to that?

Pass the tissue?