Tier 10 Domination Games and Death Wish Destroyers

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

As a Shimakaze player whoever the Captain was he brings shame to us all....  you reckon he was on 20km?

5 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

I really had to laugh the most at

 

"Gunboat in the open (best done in Shima)"

 

because just few days ago I had that kind of "special" player in my team... he was trying to be gunboat in both inside the smoke and outside the smoke the whole match while he lived (albeit shortly for obvious reasons) while spamming (and 100% missing) long range torpedoes...

 

When I checked his stats after game it showed 400+ games in "Shimakaze" with average damage of 11K...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

 

The incident i had in mind when i wrote that:

Our Shima on Sea of Fortune (we spawned south), went outside of C straight into enemy spawn, open water gunboating a GK at <7km (probably closer), died pretty much instantly without even throwing Torps.

 

Shima is kinda the BB of the DDs. Everyone "loves" it because 20km torps, and it has been around the longest, so most ppl died their way up to get it.
Which means, the worst players have it and like to play it aswell. Whether they suck in it or not doesnt matter for them, as they are playing "4 fun". How the above mentioned shima had fun tho... is a mistery to me

 

Would be great if those players would go back to play BB... atleast then you can carry them to a victory if you are left with good DD players.

[Migantium_Mashum]

5 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

The incident i had in mind when i wrote that:

Our Shima on Sea of Fortune (we spawned south), went outside of C straight into enemy spawn, open water gunboating a GK at <7km (probably closer), died pretty much instantly without even throwing Torps.

 

Shima is kinda the BB of the DDs. Everyone "loves" it because 20km torps, and it has been around the longest, so most ppl died their way up to get it.
Which means, the worst players have it and like to play it aswell. Whether they suck in it or not doesnt matter for them, as they are playing "4 fun". How the above mentioned shima had fun tho... is a mistery to me

 

Would be great if those players would go back to play BB... atleast then you can carry them to a victory if you are left with good DD players.

Wouldn't dream of using 20km torps on Shima she would become a tainted ship.. for me 8km @ 76 or 6.4km @ 81 is my norm, I have 2 level 19 Commanders for my Shima with an up and coming third.... Only once did I ever Gunboat in a Shima and I was chasing down an Izumo at the time from the rear... 2 guns not much of an impact but managed to get a few fires going... Did okay on my IJN line apart from Yugumo to get to her and as the days go along my WR in her improves... In fact nowadays I usually do well in her and I am usually alive to the end.

[Prospect_b]

7 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Our Shima went open water gunboating a GK at <7km (probably closer), died pretty much instantly without even throwing Torps.

Cue Benny Hill music

 

Isn't it problematic I have absolutely zero doubt believing this?... I'd really love to see WG's data about the correlation between losing teams vs teams with most shima's.

[Migantium_Mashum]

1 minute ago, Saiyko said:

Cue Benny Hill music

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I mean, he isn't exactly wrong considering the rework may just kill the game outright. 

 

 

This isn't about DDs. DDs as a class are fine. This is about the ridiculous amount of sub-par players and WG's outright refusal to do anything to improve the situation.

Naturally I can provide plenty examples for potato BBs, CVs and/or cruisers as well.

If what you are saying about the rework is true, we might be seeing 12v12 CV games at launch, probably quickly followed by the death of WoWs as we know it

 

As to player quality that is unfortunately very true.

[DFens_666]

22 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

That shima is clearly too far from the missouri to have been spotted by anything other than radar, which can be a calculated risk.

 

His position and path is not bad at all, he could be a good player. Where else could he go with a clear line of sight to see enemy radars coming?

 

Yes, no doubt in my mind he got radared, i think probably went like this: Missouri went ahead, got spotted at some point (when Shima came around the island) and the popped Radar just to make sure.

 

For me in that situation im not sure if i would have gone wide. Basicly Hipper + missouri should have been spotted (i expect them to shoot at the Cruisers, DM died).

Meanwhile, 3/4 of the enemy team was spotted below B... IF his Cruisers would have gone that way also, then maybe... but they didnt.

[MRGTB]

2 hours ago, Gleb_Reawer said:

Now that I've learnt to be more cautious I get flamed for not rushing to cap. Haven't actually been shot, but some have shot next to me to try to force me to suicide in to a cap that is most likely guarded by a radar cruiser. Most often it's the BB's raging, but sometimes the cruisers do it to.

That is the main problem really. At the start of a game you'll hear BB players usually telling DD's to go rush the caps. And any that don't do it, they usually get flamed for holding back. But it only leads to DD's dying fast most of the time. It's the same thing that used to happen in WOT, Heavy tank players expecting light tanks to rush in spotting for them and dying fast. I see the same thing going on in WOWS with BB players telling DD's to rush in and spot for them, and if they don't they get accused of not playing a DD ship proper.

[Unknown_Lifeform]

It's the nature of the game. Domination games open with destroyers competing for caps and a destroyer advantage, its not surprising that one side often achieves it.

 

There are bad players in all classes of ships but destroyers offer by far the most opportunities for an early and premature death. Domination mode pulls the destroyers into the middle early on to challenge for caps where they will meet their main counter (other destroyers), likely be spotted for the entire enemy fleet to shoot at (since they often don't have anything else to shoot at this early) and risk being radared by cruisers rushing into positions to cover the caps where the destroyers will obviously head. Less talented players tend to die quickly in that kind of environment.

 

Compare that to sub-par players in other classes who tend to be marked by passive play and thus actually pretty likely to survive a long time (usually whilst contributing very little).

[MRGTB]

But the thing is.. it isn't really nice to play a DD, more so if you're only an average or poor skilled DD player. If you decide to play more cautious like the other person said, not wanting to get killed in the first 5 minutes. You'll get flamed for doing so, accused of not playing a DD proper because you didn't go rushing in like a loon trying to cap at the very start. And it happens every single game, you get tired of people moaning in each match if you don't rush in when playing a DD.

 

I play a BB 99% of the time and I never tell DD's to go rush in. They should be able to play their own style of game based on what suits their skill level in a DD. No point rushing in to fight other DD, not if you're not good enough in one. You're better playing more cautious game. But then you only have people crying all the time because you didn't rush in on caps with a DD.

 

I'm not a good DD player. Tried them and realised I'm not good enough to keep rushing in trying to battle other better skilled DD players and always dying right at the start. So I give over playing DD's because of the mentality of other players towards them, always expecting you to rush in and die fast.

[Bear__Necessities]

I’m sick of other classes not supporting DD’s then blaming the DD’s when other classes fail at their roles. But it’s been like this since the start so what the point in bringing it up constantly....

[GulvkluderGuld]

2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Yes, no doubt in my mind he got radared, i think probably went like this: Missouri went ahead, got spotted at some point (when Shima came around the island) and the popped Radar just to make sure.

 

For me in that situation im not sure if i would have gone wide. Basicly Hipper + missouri should have been spotted (i expect them to shoot at the Cruisers, DM died).

Meanwhile, 3/4 of the enemy team was spotted below B... IF his Cruisers would have gone that way also, then maybe... but they didnt.

Which cap/side to go for is mostly down to spawn positions (at least for me in randoms)

The thing is, maybe he could have adjusted his position after realizing the radar cruisers went to B and instead head for the cap.

So does he finish the kill on the (now radarless) missouri on the cruisers flank or go cap instead (and risk running into the shima that was capping it earlier) plsu whatever cruisers are on that flank.

 

[Bear__Necessities]

2 hours ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

As a DD player I get tired of the rants of the bigger ships and people like you OP..

You guys in your BB's or Cruisers have a massive health pool as opposed to say my Shimakaze, Gearing, Yeuyang, Z-52, Benson, Cossack, Lightning, Kitakaze, Kagero, Yugumo....so why don't you support the DD instead of whining and then perhaps we will live longer to be the Supermen you want us to be.

So when a DD flips F3 at a radar equipped Cruiser you sink it... or you do if the brain matter between your eyes is firing properly... If you haven't figured it out take half an hour with a strong coffee and learn the capabilities of the DD deleting enemy ships...

I had a game yesterday where of 3 Destroyers I alone was left alive at 13 minutes because nobody could be arsed to shoot at the "Moksva" "Salem"... we won only because I kept the Musashi (Which I sank), Grosser Kurfurst (Who ate 2 torpedoes and ran), Shimakaze(Which I took down to 2k) and Yugumo away from the 2 of 3 caps we had...I did this alone with zero support... Our Jutland and Haragumo repeatedly F3 at C for help and were completely ignored so fell under the guns of the enemy after radar pinged them.. Moskva and Salem seemed to takes turns and delight in pinging them and they had no support hence no chance.. Haragumo, by his choice of words after being sunk by Moskva, was a little disappointed that his BB consorts only wanted to shoot at other BB's and indeed Moskva survived the whole game... strange that given how we DD's are so poor in the games you play in..

BB's want to understand that it is a team game so stop sitting on the borders, stop sitting behind the islands and shoot the damn ships that can detect DD's... You might then find DD's will actively support you... or you can carry on in the same way that I see in almost every game I play and then it's every one for themselves..

You can't fight a productive game if you have no support... you cannot be aggressive if the radar Cruisers are left afloat... and you cannot cap if the big consorts are so tucked behind islands or far away that their shells are useless... The only BB to actively try to help was a T8 (Tirpitz) at least he understood and tried to help.. DD's are small and should not have to carry Battleships or Cruisers just to gain victory..

But we are having to.. and OP you whine??

 

They expect us to do all the work for them

so they can claim the glory and when it doesn’t go their way they just use us DD players as a quick excuse to compensate their crappy play.

 

I’m used to it to be fair. Makes sinking BB babies all the more sweeter.

[Gleb_Reawer]

4 hours ago, GaryThomasBolton said:

That is the main problem really. At the start of a game you'll hear BB players usually telling DD's to go rush the caps. And any that don't do it, they usually get flamed for holding back. But it only leads to DD's dying fast most of the time. It's the same thing that used to happen in WOT, Heavy tank players expecting light tanks to rush in spotting for them and dying fast. I see the same thing going on in WOWS with BB players telling DD's to rush in and spot for them, and if they don't they get accused of not playing a DD ship proper.

Yup, 100% spot on. I was a LT main in WoT and played Bat-Chat in CW's. Left just before they removed cross team chat, but even then the abuse LT drivers got in random games, for not spotting enemy in the first 5 seconds of the game, was insane and getting shot bc you didn't do as xPattonx or Rommel67 said was common.

[Sir_Grzegorz]

You want to loose some karma take a DD. Win or lose, you good or bad -1 karma.

I think that one of the improvements to DD gameplay would be to remove torps guide lines if target is too far/not possible to hit.

I am seeing so many T9/10 pan-asian DD's torping other DD's or islands with enemies behind them that it is no longer fun to watch.

Unfortunatelly that would be an indirect nerf to some cruisers and they are not in a happy place at all.

[Gleb_Reawer]

9 minutes ago, Sir_Grzegorz said:

You want to loose some karma take a DD. Win or lose, you good or bad -1 karma.

I think that one of the improvements to DD gameplay would be to remove torps guide lines if target is too far/not possible to hit.

I am seeing so many T9/10 pan-asian DD's torping other DD's or islands with enemies behind them that it is no longer fun to watch.

Unfortunatelly that would be an indirect nerf to some cruisers and they are not in a happy place at all.

 

I've seen a couple of them too, one tried to torp my Gearing and started raging about hax, I checked his and the stats of 3 such players and they all had FXP:d their way to said ships and naturally the best WR of the 4 was 47% with ~5k battles in total.

 

This in mind I don't think even the removal of the guidelines will help as IIRC, if you target a enemy DD with torps in a Pan Asian DD, there will only bee the outline of the torp guide edges, but the inside of the torp guide will have no color as opposed to being white when targetting a ship you can actually hit with DW torps.

[Migantium_Mashum]

20 minutes ago, Sir_Grzegorz said:

I am seeing so many T9/10 pan-asian DD's torping other DD's or islands with enemies behind them that it is no longer fun to watch.

 

I watched a YY once torpedo a Gearing and then rant that the Gearing was cheating... you couldn't write it. For a whole 4 minutes this moron kept ranting and then went slam into Gearings return strike.. The abuse was then epic and this YY just wouldn't accept that Gearing killed him by torpedoes and didn't die by his.. In Port I messaged him about DWT and asked him why he didn't know and he finally admitted he had fxp the PA line..  Thankfully for me these are a rare occurrence...

 

In my YY if I am with an allied DD in or around a cap I like firing at targets whilst they are beside me... I think every now and again I make some of them jump...

 

@Gleb_Reaweras we posted at the same time maybe this incident I witnessed was yours?

 

[RAMJB]

8 hours ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

As a DD player I get tired of the rants of the bigger ships and people like you OP..

2

 

Well, problem is that OP is right. Dead right, even. That you're a good DD player means he's not talking about you in his post. He's talking about the zillion of idiots who die like imbeciles 2 minutes in the game. Those are legion, and he's right in complaining about them.

I'm just out of a match with my GK (5th consecutive loss in a 150k+damage multikill battle where I was as agressive as possible, but hey...). Gamestart we had a Daring and a Shima. Daring went for cap. A cleveland was briefly spotted going for that cap. I told him "careful, daring, don't push in too hard, radar". He pushed in. He was detected by an enemy DD, he smoked in front of him, stopped cold....guess what happened next. Yup. Lit up by radar, he was focused into orbit, then back, then into space again.

"FFS, told you so, you can't park in front of a freakin' radar, were you playing with the brain switched off or what?" I go in chat. Couldn't say more. Got chat banned (again, heh).

 

The Shima died rushing a smoked mino, BTW. Don't ask me the particulars of that one because I couldn't watch it in detail, I was being focused by 5 enemy ships while trying to fight back.

As I said, 5th consecutive game like that in my Kurfurst, all decided within the 1st minute because my team's destroyers were born without a brain. That you aren't like that doesn't mean the legion out there that's exactly like that is not worth complaining about. Or worse.

Braindead players are truly this game's biggest issue.
 

 

 

[RAMJB]

6 hours ago, Bear_Necessities said:

I’m sick of other classes not supporting DD’s then blaming the DD’s when other classes fail at their roles. But it’s been like this since the start so what the point in bringing it up constantly....

 

I'm really sure my Daring of the battle I mentioned avobe died because I wasn't supporting him (being as I was maybe 7km behind him, alongside a chapayev and 2 more ships), not because he stopped COLD in the middle of a cap that we KNEW was being approached by a radar ship sailing at full steam.

Same with a shima charging a Minotaur's smoke. He totally died because "lack of support". YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYep.

and those are just TWO instances taken out of ONE game. Take notice of other posts published here by others, some even with screenshots, which tell the true tale - those idiots died because were idiots, not because "no support", the same as the immense majority of DDs nowadays.

 

Besides, you, as the DD, PERFECTLY know the support you have behind when you move into a cap. If there's none, then your bloody fault for rushing it and dying when you KNEW it was a lone fight, instead of holding a bit back, spotting, laying torps and just resorting to delaying actions instead of yoloing like a braindead.


AS for the illuminated one who stated something about BBs telling DDs to "rush the caps" at beginning of the game - no. Nope. No they dont. Well not the ones with a brain, that is. They're telling to SPOT the caps and CONTEST them if possible. Which is a completely different thing. It's obvious BBs (and cruisers, and everyone) wants the DDs close to the caps - is where the enemy DDs are going to be (if they are half competent), so obviously they want you to be there, in front (as you're supposed  to be), keeping a check on the enemy DDs (as you're supposed to do) and to get your spotting so they know the general picture of things (as you're supposed to do aswell). 

but that doesn't mean "rush the cap no matter what". And if it does you can tell them to piss off...but still go to the caps to spot. Because THATS YOUR FREAKIN JOB AS A DD to begin with.



I also play DDs, you know, and I think I have pretty decent scores in my high tier DDs to know what I'm talking about. At gamestart I do go to the caps, I do contest them in possible, always ready to engage smoke and GTFO in case of a bad suprise, or if a radar ship I had not seen previously lits me up. 

What I don't do is to rush like an imbecile. I scout, I try to cap, but if I see it's not possible I don't sit there within a smoke waiting for the radar (or the torpwall) to come and send me back to port. And if there's no team support nearby I resort to Delaying action. Spotting, torping, withdrawing, keeping an eye open for DDs, etc. But I don't go into the cap and die like an imbecile, which is what so many others do.

 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 11 Stunden, Dirty_Dunc sagte:

I'm tired of watching four or five tier 9/10 destroyers all suiciding at the start of the game and leaving everyone else to rot.  

 

Sick to the back teeth of watching it happen.  It's not just once in a blue moon ... it's game after game.

 

The solution, of course, would be to play DD yourself. This way you will have at least one good DD on your team.

 

[RAMJB]

8 hours ago, GaryThomasBolton said:

 If you decide to play more cautious like the other person said, not wanting to get killed in the first 5 minutes...

 

 

Then you still go to the caps. You just play different.

Look, when I got my Gearing at first (after averaging 58% WR and 2000PR in the Fletcher) I got a serious problem adapting to the ship. Like, for real. My averages were awful, 45% WR ish and 1100 PR-ish when I was at 40 battles or so with it.

Turns out I was just using the ship far more aggressively than what it was supposed to be used like. I pushed situations when I should have retired. I insisted in contesting caps that had no possible salvation. Etc.

I did a post on Reddit about it commenting about how surprised I was about the ship, how it wasn't what I was expecting it to be, etc, and asking for tips. Those came. They told me to be cautious first, and turn the aggressiveness up notch by notch as the game went by.

Accordingly, I took the advice. Began playing cautiously.

Does that mean I stopped going to the caps? . No.

Does that mean I spent the first 5 minutes of the game sailing doing nothing?. No.

Does that mean I gave up trying to spot for my team?. No.

Means I stopped pushing situations that I used to push. That upon spotting an enemy DD I didn't immediately fire back, but wait for him to fire to then engage smoke and disengage (him firing up giving his position away for other teammates that could fire on him, so I could stop spotting him mysef) instead of entering a trade that could end either way but even if I won I'd end up mauled and with almost no HP. It meant that I probed caps, but didn't yolorush them. It means that when I had not enough support I switched to delay mode, use preventive torps into possible enemy avenues, try to slow them down without getting engaged in a fight I couldn't win, etc.

worked like a charm. Now I'm at almost 100 battles, WR is up to 53.5%, PR 1660. Nothing great, but coming from the atrocious 45%/1100 I had at 40 battles (that's computed into the 100 battles and is part of the current stats too, I had to bounce back from those numbers) , you can see the difference. And I still have to improve with that ship, I haven't really fully adapted to it yet.

Playing cautious doesn't mean "Give up doing what you're supposed to do". Means BE CAUTIOUS while doing it. Which seems most people fail to understand.

[Migantium_Mashum]

@RAMJB same as.. I have watched my WR climb as a result... Take your time, don't rush and be prepared to withdraw always with your escape route in hand.. you can always come back again to attack if you're alive.. and learn your enemy, know the ships that are lethal.. I have applied this to every DD I play now and all my WR are increasing...... and yes some were really crap.

 

My Gearing is 47% now (Was 42%) My Shima is 47% (Was 43%) Kagero is 57% (Was 40%) Z-46 is 49% (Was 44%)  My Yeuyang is at 50% (Was 38%) --- March '18 to now...(Primaries)

 

Cossack 55%, Z-39 58%. Benson 61%. Hatsuharu 81%. Kidd 45%. Shiratsuyu 53%. Kitakaze 43%. Yugumo 41% Lightning 50%.

 

My average for all the DD's above is 52.84% and I can smile at that.. But, it did take me a while to get with the program..

 

 

 

[Taliesn]

11 hours ago, Xevious_Red said:

 

On topic, theres lots of crap players, just in DD they tend to die faster than the crap BB that are floating around the border somewhere

 And this is it in a nutshell.

 

Crap player in a CV, doesnt get spotted, does sweet f.a. and dies very late in the game. Rolfstomp for the other team unless similar crap CV player on the other side.

 

Crap player in BB, doesnt leave spawn, does sweet f.a. and dies late in the game but very fast with most repairs unused.

 

Crap player in cruiser, if a radar one he rushes into a cap, turns showing broadside and dies instantly 10 seconds into his radar. You've guessed it right, doing sweet f.a.

 

If non-radar cruiser, go to BB.

[RAMJB]

@Migantium_Mashum

 

I actually had DD gameplay quite nailed since a long time ago. It was Gearing that struck me in the forehead like a hammer. I just couldn't make it work.

My problem was twofold, actually. I got the gearing shortly after coming from a 6 month hiatus of playing the game. In the interim the whole lot of radar spam had been thrown into the game (the whole new american CL line, Kronshtadt, Balancegrad). I was used to the times were having 2 radars per team was pretty average and suddenly found myself in a world of 4 radars per team. Took time to adjust.

And then it was the ship. You know, I've been around for a long time, I'm an on and off player who plays for some months and then takes long breaks. As a result I still remember the days where the Gearing was labelled as the "cap contesting boss" because there were only two T10 DDs and the other was (obviously) the Shima. Since then the german soviet and panasian DD lines had been released but somehow that concept of Gearing being the best at close quarter combat had stuck with me.

When I came back, british DDs had been just released, and those just make picnics out of Gearings stupid enough to engage with them in a pissing contest. Took me a while to understand that the only intelligent way to deal with a Jutland or a Daring was just turning tail and GTFOing on spot. And there are a lot more lines than the ones that were around back when I began playing, but the concept of Gearing as the "close quarters brawl master" had stuck in my mind, and I insisted in playing it like that. 

Gearing is still a pretty good DD, but it certainly is no longer the "CQC master" by any stretch of the imagination. Yueyang until this patch had better guns (more accurate, longer range, same reload) and much smaller profile. Grozovoi ...well is grozovoi, no need to describe it XD. Daring eats DDs at close range for lunch. Z-52 and it's hydro shenanigans, etc. And of course then there's the Khaba, which is a whole different class on it's own.

 

And then, ofc, the fact that the second a big AP round hit the ship anywhere from almost any angle, it was a guaranteed massacre. That didn't help either.

Summing up I was being ultra agressive in a ship that ONCE was supposed to excel in super agressive mode - but that is no longer like that. I didn't understand that and took some adjusting (and very good advice) to really get what I was doing wrong so I could fix it.

Since then, it's been great fun tho. The ship is nice, it's not the best T10 DD but has it's strenghts and once I understood where the ship stands in the current meta (and adjusted to the fact that in most battles behind every rock there IS a radar XD), I've had a lot of fun with it, and quite some success.

[_Teob_]

While I have thousands of matches under my belt, this new trend of everyone thinking they know better than DDs how to play is new and baffling to me.

Despite my WR and experience, I constantly get people telling me I should have done this or that. It's so tiring and frustrating sometimes.

 

In the same match you will get people shouting at you for totally antithetical aspects.

I have had, within the space of 2 minutes, people shouting at me for not going into the cap, people shouting at me for not spotting and people shouting at me for going into the cap - meanwhile I was just sailing my (slow) Gearing towards the cap at max speed but at an angle where I could spot/duck behind a rock.

Other times, I've had people tell me to go contest a cap that had a radar ship on it. Like an actual radar ship, fully spotted sitting in the cap and one dude will go "stoopid DeeDee Y U no cap?? - and I genuinely don't know what to say to stuff like that

Another regular occurrence are super angry rants at me because I wasn't where someone thought I should be. That usually happens when the DDs on the other side of the map die. Then it doesn't matter that I am still fighting on my flank or that I may just be in a slow boat so it will take me a while to relocate - people get angry and the map pings pour in.

It's weird being told what to do by people that barely understand the game. I don't quite know what makes them think they have this particular right. Or what causes them to have no doubt whatsoever about the fact that I must be a potato because I disagree with them.

 

Another aspect is, when playing at high tiers, even the best DD players will die occasionally if they're unlucky. Random torpedoes after you had just turned or a suicidal radar Mino will do the trick. Or even just that one dude on the enemy team that is playing his DM but hasn't bothered to fire for 5 minutes so you thought it was safe to go into the cap and then you got blasted by half the enemy team.

Heck I've been killed by just having two BBs fire randomly in my smoke and they got 4 normal penetrations on me and I just went poof.

My point is, it happens. DDs will sometimes just.... die. That just comes with the territory.  You are never truly safe in a DD.

So while it may seem like some DD is a total potato for dying in that match, that might not really be the case or there may be mitigating factors.

 

Not saying there aren't bad DD players. I think the ratio of skilled vs unskilled is the same for all classes but DDs just get punished much harder when things don't go well for them so I think misplays or misfortune is just a lot more obvious for DDs.

[RAHJAILARI]

3 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

While I have thousands of matches under my belt, this new trend of everyone thinking they know better than DDs how to play is new and baffling to me.

Despite my WR and experience, I constantly get people telling me I should have done this or that. It's so tiring and frustrating sometimes.

Yeeah... Interestingly though, many of those wise men also often tend to be people, who never play DD themselves. Go figure...