Aircraft Carrier: Changes to Tech Trees, Upgrades and Commander Skills - Discussion Thread

[Beyosu]

Because people do not know how to play boats. This game is for team play and many players play alone.
DD that do not explore, nor capture areas.
CL who picnic in the rear.
BB who do not know how to shoot.
CVs that can not do their job because the team cries them for aerial coverage or scans when they are fighting against the enemy CV.
Etc, etc, etc ...

This game is very good to be an arcade, but you have to know how to play as a team with each class of ship. If all the boats do the same: shoot the opposite and already. Well, crap and bored.

What is not normal to see level 15 players with level 8 ships playing as if they were level 2 Beginner. What are the players who complain about chat in games and wargaming.

What wargaming should not do is make changes in the game by listening to these people, because they destroy the game.

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

Suppose this whole thing gets implemented- i'm not against it, the whole gameplay looks quite nice, but i'm worried about the consequences for my captains & boats, will i be able to go over my entire ship/ captains set with, say, support to work out a proper transition?

 

What i have:

 

- Langley through midway researched

- langley, essex, midway owned

- Saipan owned (bought mid-2017 i think)
- Hosho- Hiryu researched

- hosho, hiryu owned
 

- 19 point US cv captain
- 12 point? IJN cv captain

- some more captains. 

Basically there's a number of issues going on. 
First off; i want full Free XP for any ships that will go missing as well as for any ship that gets replaced- even if i keep them. You are majorly changing the gameplay, why would it not make sense to let me keep the CVs and the free XP? You want me to play right? 
Right now you're just suggesting that i redeem all free XP and not touch a carrier again. 

Second; the captains. Something needs to happen there. Something a bit better than proposed so far. Give all old CV captains a new, special commander for each nation they had a 12+ point in, starting at 15 points or what, reset the other commanders to 0, convert all XP to elite XP and allow free choice of specialization. Don't be so greedy, it's a major rework!

Third: the Saipan. I bought the saipan, discounted, so i wont want a money chargeback, since it'd be a pretty bad deal for me. However, that doesnt mean that i wouldnt be entitled to it. 
It's a bit as if i bought a washing machine, but the manufacturer decides to replace it by a dryer after a year instead. It's still a household appliance in the field of clothes washing, okay, but it's not quite the same thing and under EU law  it doesnt really make sense to tell us we cant have a refund- especially since this was actually done for the Belfast, Kutuzov and Perth (i believe these three? ), while these had much smaller changes imposed with the smokescreen rework. 
In the case of the Enterprise and GZ i can still understad, for the Kaga and Saipan i think it's really odd. 

Doubloon compensation is okayish, but monetary chargeback should be an option IMO- though i wont be using it. 

Then; for the saipan; i really hope you guys will make this a very competative ship. I bought it for its high-potential gameplay and i sure hope you'll find a way to build a new aircraft carrier that can do this. Relatively small hangar size (still a thing, right), slow regeneration, but sturdy and fast planes- with big squadrons?

As a brighter note; i like the overall idea of the rework. It needs lots of finetuning, but i think you all know this. Progress is being made- significantly even- and while i was disappointed with the gameplay of the first iteration, i already quite liked the second. 

I have one final idea, which is a suggestion really: perhaps it'd be nice to reward all loyal CV players up to this point. We've been battling in the skies while enduring salt of friend & foe (god, the reports even for just plalying CV), we've had minotaurs, clevelands, atlantas etc. Now i think a really cool thing for you guys to do would be the following: 
- Release a tier 6 premium/reward CV, with (early) access for all who have played plenty of CV in the current CV style. Just to show us some appreciation. Having a tier 6 premium CV would really make a nice addition, and there'd be plenty of inspiration- hinting towards RN CVs here, such that you could use it as a promo aswell. Or you could hand out like free perma-camos for each CV a player has right now, something like that. But please, try to be a bit appreciative about current CV players. Thats something we're all missing here. 
In fact, you could even use the GZ for this, but thats a bit of a pain point perhaps. 

 

Grtz Isoruku_Yamamoto

[Olamagato]

These changes going to anihilate CV class from game. Then WoWS will be changed to pseudo historical fantasy shooter with clean sky. Then I propose remove tiers V-X too.

[Lhynn]

I also think the new CV gameplay is more fun than the current, RTS-like one. I'm conscious that the current demo needs fine-tuning to become workable, I'm just afraid some of the proposed changes to ships, matchmaking, captain skills and modules are taking CV in the wrong direction of becoming even more powerful (and subsequently even more toxic and game-breaking) than they currently are.

One more thing: as the famous US WG Community Contributor Notser pointed out, upon release of the CV rework patch, ALL CAPTAIN SKILLS FOR ALL CAPTAINS AND SHIP TYPES SHOULD BE RESET FOR FREE, not ONLY CV captain skills. Indeed, CV rework will directly affect all ship classes across the board, hence it would be unfair to allow only CV players to change their captain skills and not all of the other players, who may have previously disregarded AA-related skills and may want to change their setups due to the rework. So the CV rework should come with a complete, free captain skills' reset for all ships, without any XP loss, to allow all players rethink their setups and allow CV players to choose wisely between their new skills. 

[700]

On 11/26/2018 at 2:38 PM, Lhynn said:

I also think the new CV gameplay is more fun than the current, RTS-like one. I'm conscious that the current demo needs fine-tuning to become workable, I'm just afraid some of the proposed changes to ships, matchmaking, captain skills and modules are taking CV in the wrong direction of becoming even more powerful (and subsequently even more toxic and game-breaking) than they currently are.

One more thing: as the famous US WG Community Contributor Notser pointed out, upon release of the CV rework patch, ALL CAPTAIN SKILLS FOR ALL CAPTAINS AND SHIP TYPES SHOULD BE RESET FOR FREE, not ONLY CV captain skills. Indeed, CV rework will directly affect all ship classes across the board, hence it would be unfair to allow only CV players to change their captain skills and not all of the other players, who may have previously disregarded AA-related skills and may want to change their setups due to the rework. So the CV rework should come with a complete, free captain skills' reset for all ships, without any XP loss, to allow all players rethink their setups and allow CV players to choose wisely between their new skills. 

ah, you are one of those which WGing is claiming to be unable play as RTS-esque game mode. anoher one who like graphics but no substance.

I would like from you to still say the same after few hundred battles. Where you will do only flying towards enemy... again and Again and AGAIN...

[antean]

Changes to tech trees, upgrades & commander skills?

Who cares?

I won't be playing these FARCE reworked CVs.

[Lhynn]

16 hours ago, 700 said:

ah, you are one of those which WGing is claiming to be unable play as RTS-esque game mode. anoher one who like graphics but no substance.

I would like from you to still say the same after few hundred battles. Where you will do only flying towards enemy... again and Again and AGAIN...

Wrong on the whole line. First of all, I myself only play CVs in PvE missions, as I despise the class in and of itself, not to mention that for an "RTS-esque game mode", the interface is absolutely horrendous and user-hostile. Second, I'm one of those who complain about the class being inherently imbalanced and weighing too heavily on the game, especially when a skilled CV player faces a total CV noob and rofl-stomps single handedly his face, then all of my team, without any of us being able to do anything really as our AA combined is not enough to fend off focused attacks.

So yeah, to answer your question, by all means the reworked gameplay will have to either equalize (= flatten) skill levels between good and bad CV players to sharply reduce the impact of that class on the outcome of battles, or kill the class altogether by making gameplay dull and boring, only fun to play for a couple of battles a day before tiredness of doing the same thing over and over again settles in, as you righfully point out. In both cases, I'd so much rather have that than the disgusting mess that currently infests the servers. I'm one of those who didn't want the class in the game in the first place, and who would be amongst the first to Ctrl+Alt+Del CV files from the client if we were allowed to do so. Hope that makes things clearer for you.

[SMS_GrafSpee]

On 11/28/2018 at 5:17 PM, Lhynn said:

Wrong on the whole line. First of all, I myself only play CVs in PvE missions, as I despise the class in and of itself, not to mention that for an "RTS-esque game mode", the interface is absolutely horrendous and user-hostile. Second, I'm one of those who complain about the class being inherently imbalanced and weighing too heavily on the game, especially when a skilled CV player faces a total CV noob and rofl-stomps single handedly his face, then all of my team, without any of us being able to do anything really as our AA combined is not enough to fend off focused attacks.

So yeah, to answer your question, by all means the reworked gameplay will have to either equalize (= flatten) skill levels between good and bad CV players to sharply reduce the impact of that class on the outcome of battles, or kill the class altogether by making gameplay dull and boring, only fun to play for a couple of battles a day before tiredness of doing the same thing over and over again settles in, as you righfully point out. In both cases, I'd so much rather have that than the disgusting mess that currently infests the servers. I'm one of those who didn't want the class in the game in the first place, and who would be amongst the first to Ctrl+Alt+Del CV files from the client if we were allowed to do so. Hope that makes things clearer for you.

You are contradicting yourself. All you are saying is basically, that you don't understand how to play and that a tutorial is missing. Because of that tiny problem,  you might you have no clue what you are talking about?

Your way is kinda strange. I wonder how most of people would feel, if they had used the time they wasted to "improve" cv gameplay, to make cv gameplay in general better.
On the other hand, the one, who thinks we all seem to be not able to control 2 things, seems to be the one, who brought radiolocation into the game. I wonder why a single ship in the end could use that?I bet you enjoy that too ?

I feel like, I have been insulted, haven't I? I would assume a lot of players feel the same way.
 

You don't want carriers in the game?  You could always play T2 ?Anyway one question - is it fun to live in an ivory tower ?

 

[Beyosu]

I could also put two CV stairs, normal CV sa and the other CV escort, which are smaller which are smaller and transport fewer planes . Japanese, Americans and English have classes of aircraft carriers and aircraft models enough for two ladders.

Then limit to two maximum CV per team, one normal and one escort. Or just one of each class: Normal or Escort for team. And better adjust the characteristics of the CV and the AA of the rest of the ships.

Removing boats is not the solution.

[antean]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:17 AM, Lhynn said:

First of all, I myself only play CVs in PvE missions

Perhaps, because you are incapable of challenging play?

[antean]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:17 AM, Lhynn said:

as I despise the class in and of itself

clear bias

 

[antean]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:17 AM, Lhynn said:

one of those who didn't want the class in the game in the first place

then come out & say you prefer WoBBs.

Really, a WW2 naval arcade game that doesn't include the one new historically dominant ship class that, essentially,  doomed BBs.

Really, an idiot (one of many) who hasn't the 'capacity' (apparently)  for whatever reason to play a challenging class of ship. ROFL