Aircraft Carrier: Changes to Tech Trees, Upgrades and Commander Skills - Discussion Thread

[Lustar]

1 minute ago, still_guns said:

Removing all the odd tiered CV's is a very bad, very stupid idea.

 

Here's a question for you WG: What about Saipan and Kaga? They're tier 7

Can you consider reading the post before commenting ? That would be polite at least....

 

[Pikkozoikum]

31 minutes ago, still_guns said:

Removing all the odd tiered CV's is a very bad, very stupid idea.

 

Here's a question for you WG: What about Saipan and Kaga? They're tier 7

T8

[Swift94]

Oh man this a sad day for WOWS. 

I love the RTS gameplay but I know this game needs this rework badly, so I am ok with it. 

 

Kinda like the new gameplay aswell. 

 

But removing such iconic ships like Hiryu, Taiho and Essex and crippling the whole tech tree 

 

and 

 

the point that you cant control your bloody carrier properly really bothers me. (no one from WG gaves a statement to this so far, even though everyone is pointing it out)

 

I dont think I can support the rework, if this is the still the case when it hits live.

 

[Pikkozoikum]

8 minutes ago, ResurrectedEagle said:

you cant control your

You can, manually or autopiloted

[Rosletyne]

I can't remember ever seeing another thread where people were this unanimous in their opinion. Of course I agree, removing half the carriers from the game is preposterous. The only thing more ridiculous is that excuse they gave about a more dramatic increase in capability between successive carriers. It is frankly insulting that WG expects us to believe that bovine excrement, because there is no way in hell that is their real reason.

 

What could their real reason be? The best case would be that they are simply clueless about how to balance their new carriers, and they can do it easier by reducing their number. In that case, we might hope to get them back some day, but even then the damage will have been done. I especially dislike the idea of tier 8 being oversaturated with premiums, making the excessively long grind even more painful.

 

The other option is that they are intentionally creating tiers with no CVs for future events. Imagine another ranked sprint for an odd tier? So sorry you can't play a CV, because none exist for the required tier. This would be just another injury to the CV players, who have already been excluded from too many events.

 

Then there is the very worst option. Notice how they expected the matchmaker to find games faster for CV players? But wait a minute, was the goal not to have more people playing CVs, and if so, why would they need to be concentrated on fewer tiers for the matchmaker to work? Unless... they don't actually expect more people to play CVs, and they are doing this just to keep queue times short for the few who continue to play CVs after the disaster strikes.

 

I loved my Hiryu more than any other CV, and while I don't have her in my port any more, I was considering buying back my tier 7 CVs and training new captains for them. But now, why should I bother? I was also looking forward to completing the grind to tier 10 in my Taiho and Essex. Guess I should not have bothered to retrain my tier 8 captains for them, complete waste of time.

[antean]

Good Option offered: Selling all CVs for credits, Free Exp & Doubloons for those who won't want to play the new reworked garbage CVs. Good.

I will, however, keep my CV Cpts & 'respec' all of them to DD Cpts so they can hunt the new reworked garbage CVs. Good.

This will be 'fun'.

[invicta2012]

5 hours ago, Rosletyne said:

Unless... they don't actually expect more people to play CVs, and they are doing this just to keep queue times short for the few who continue to play CVs after the disaster strikes.

Good. They still can't balance the class. There is no way of balancing the class while defence against CVs remains so patchy, and you can expect howls of protest when the rework goes live and other players find themselves being shot up/bombed/torp'd by enemies, more than they do now, according to honest CV players, by enemies they have very little defence against. It really doesn't matter whether WG removes odd-Tier CVs if they're still going to allow multiple CVs in games, CV divisions and powerful strikes by 1942 design aircraft against ships with no 1938 vintage AA defence - i.e. none whatsoever. 

[aidenthedestroyer]

The CV rework for me is a mixed bag of feelings. On the one hand, the gameplay and whole style of CVs and how they can be viewed in battle has shifted a lot. But on the other, It seems more stale and....lack of content....so to say.

The new gameplay is not bad, considering now RTS was an age old thing, it can be rather interesting for newer players. RTS also gave a skileld CV player complete dominance over the sky over the other which was a major problem. Not to mention, IJN CVs at tiers 7 and 8 have much superior loadouts to their US Counters (2/2/2 vs 1/1/2) which pretty much made them a lot better and nices to play (Shoukaku and Hiryuu are my best CVs). When compared to playing a Battleship (Which was where the line split from) CVs tended to be really damn challenging to a new players of the older times where you had alt attacks. Now it becomes challenging at tier 6 where you meet terrifying AA and more skilled players, so the new players of CVs were ideally never able to get ahold of how to play, so the whole "Strike focus" seems to reduce that skill level and help a player in aiming. CVs now depend on the team even more so for defense than they used to because this rework essentially turns them into floating airfields as you have infinte planes at your disposal.

 

There are a ton of problems, one of which, as poined out, is the fact that controlling the ship itself is not up to the mark. We get that the planes are the main focus, but the ship herself is equally important, and if under attack by a DD, more often than not you will be taken out before you take her out as most probably the best Anti-DD weapons are the rockets since DDs can easily dodge Bombs and torpedoes. Removal of tier 5,7 and 9 Carriers seems very weird considering those tiers are the tiers where players make the jumps into more competitive tiers, i.e - T6,8,10. It should be accepted that T6,8 and 10 are more so competitive tiers, so ofcourse the skill here tends to higher than that of low tier. Removal of Tier 5,7 and 9 CVs doesnt seem to help in preparing a player for a more skilled environment, as These tiers tend to have very favourable MM allowing a player to not meet stronger opponents, unlike Tier 6 and 8. Tier 7 tends to be a sweet spot in the game as most ships here are very good at what they do, not to mention you can only meet Tier 5 or Tier 9. However, if they make the XP requirements to make the jump from, say tier 6 to tier 8 and tier 8 to tier 10 higher, then it could be fine, or, alternatively make the line "weave" to another of the same tier (Example - Houshou (IV) to Zuihou (IV) to Ryuujou (VI) to Hiryuu (VI) to Shoukaku (VIII) and so on) while keeping XP requirements for same tier ships low. But nonetheless, players skill is always something that should be looked into. Another point is the gameplay which can seem to be repetitive. Start with rockets, then torps, then maybe rockets and bombs....which can start to get boring.

 

 

[Cmdr_Kouta]

Ok, nice and all, yet there is one major problem:

ERASING HARD EARNED CV'S!

Its ok for those who do not own them yes, yet there are a few of us who actualy spend MONEY to get slots to actualy own the FULL Tech tree with all ships of it in habor. Here a little question and something to think about:

How about you do it WOT style and let those who own those CV that will get erased keep them? Wouldnt be so much work to just say, at least for now untill they get proper rework/readded to the game, let them stick with the tier benath them (so for example, Zuihou will be T4 after patch with equal planes as Houshou, Taihou equal to Shouhou and so on). That would A: be a temporary fix and B: Nice for those who own said CV that get erased.

Kaga getting to T8 and getting her loadout changed to T8 is also nice yet keep in mind : she is one of the few CV to rival the midway in sheer numbers. Her normal planes + reserve are just overwhelming even compared to more modern ones.

Oh and while we are at it : Where is Zuikaku? The most beloved ship from the Alpha test? We still miss IJN's finest here while US got that pathetic thing called Enterprise already(Yes i am absolutely bias against Big-E althou i like Star Trek(not like it's because Azur Lane, nope, why would one think that!)(good thing that "thing" gets nerfed with the CV patch as every AA on T8 onward will be a dread to all planes, especiel ships that are AA focus like for example Atlanta, All USN DD's, more modern IJN cruisers)

[Ysterpyp]

You should give full compensation in free xp regardless if i want to sell them or not.. Because what i grinded is not what im getting in the rework!!! And i don't want to sell my cv's because then you change the cv in the future and we get shafted again.

 

I can see this is the only way u will avoid a crap storm, i have put alot of time and effort in these lines and free xp

 

I'm at Essex(did the full hard Lexington grind) and hakuryuu(Free xp passed shokaku due to MM where it was just useless)

 

Really disappointed in you business logic

 

 

[Mr_Snoww]

i wonder if they will actually listen to feedback this time as it seems everyone hates what they are doing with CVs, and rightly so. 

[gmomkey]

Oh Dear  Oh Dear @Wargaming  I am sorry but NO you Can NOT remove some CV's from the tech tree .. Un Less this is JUST FOR THE TEST ... @MrConway Please Please tell us this action is Just For The Test ?? the AA is so so String that to Be honest only playing on a CV's Own tier is acceptable ATM as you Will be wiped out and you are lucky to hit anything as it is right now ( Before test 3 ) . people have Ground all the way through the CV lines spending Hours and Hours and lots of Real Life MONEY on premium account time and exchanging Free XP.. premo camos .... the list goes on .  so I am hoping that the CV Tech Tree Change is ONLY for the Test 3 ..  as If this  goes on the live server ... it's Not going to be Pretty and will cost you dear ...

ps I am a BB main and I value CV's as a necessary part of the game in All tiers 

( don't Shoot me .. who else is going to dig out the pesky island hugging radar cruiser )

[AdmiralCollingwood]

My impression is, they simply do not  care about anything we say! They blind themselves, and even contradict their own reasons, just like they do now!
Old saying says - "Who has no work -makes work for themselves ! - But seeing this I think - IT WILL NOT WORK THIS TIME! It is amazing how they keep shooting into their own feet.

Or using another picture - cutting off the tree they sit on. I wished there was a hotline to call, but there isn`t anything like that!

I am not going to waste more of my lifetime for ignorant people, who do not care what the community thinks!

 

[Horin728]

I have been saying it since the first rumors, but the CV rework looks bad...

 

And is getting worse and worse by the moment...

 

Seriously there is so much wrong with it, that I'd have to write a serious wall of text to include it all... And I have already done so 3 or 4 times...

[Ysterpyp]

Quick question , say i don't have any cv port but grinded all the way to haku and i refund the line will i get every ships xp cost as free xp + all the researched modules?

XP Sum

For ship xp in the ijn line excluding the modules its around ~591000 xp in total, is this the amount of free xp i would be credited with + (modules researched of course , not in total sum). 

 

Prices worked out on shipcomrade tech tree

 

 

[JuJuEU]

Well … I wonder if in WG working only narrow minded people ? With such a stupid changes … I am requesting to refund back all premium carriers in cash !!! You should pay back money to all Your customers because You changing base of the game … and I did not paid for sth to be later cheated by WG !!!

As far as I remember WG CEO mentioned before that WG will listen to their customers means us players … and it seems to me that NOBODY is even care OUR opinion. You already ruined WoT and WoWp … and now You want to do the same with WoWs ??? Basic marketing rule is: better/cheaper to keep the customer that to gain a new one. And I think You are doing totally opposite … You will think later why You income is lower and lower but then it will be too late WG !!!

 

Proposed changes in Carriers are NOT ACCEPTABLE !!!! I am waiting for possibility to get cash back from premium carriers !!! NOW !

 

Greetings,

[The_Listener]

So what will happen to Saipan? If it gets up-tiered how will it survived against high plane count CV's like Enteprise? As we all know Saipan is a CVE "Escort Carrier" low plane numbers and its planes will die in tier 10 AA and get de-planed by the floating aircraft factory Enteprise.

[Rasengan007]

The problem seems that the rework is actually two changes rolled into one:

1) Change of gameplay from rts into arcade for carriers

2) Creation of odd tiers w/o carriers for events, ranked seasons etc.

 

Instead of excuses about the perceived difference from progressing from tier to tier in carriers not being "high" enough, you should simply come clean and admit that there is a plan behind creating tiers with no carriers so we could discuss it. For the record I do believe that carriers as they work now are a bit unbalanced in a 7v7 setting, but perhaps there could be other solutions to that.

[Senshi_Isamu]

I usually don't bother with forums but this one can't go through just like that.

I played both tests of new CVs and the whole idea is just so retarded and pathetic that I can't believe you are still going for it. Even more, there are still people that are happy with the changes while they apparently don't realise that WG is screwing us all with this crap. Fixing absolutely nothing, while dumbing down everything, slaughtering whole class and completely breaking immersion with forcing WoWp on us. Can we stick to playing ships, not planes? Would be smart idea you know...

And those recently announced changes. One big mess. Removing half of the carriers? Really? For what? The only point that makes sense is to put CV players on certain tiers so MM can make games faster with them. But wait wait, didn't you mean to fix the population issue with rework of gameplay? Instead let's throw relatively new players right from tier VI to VIII and X. Yes, such a clever idea. Why don't we have it in other classes?

I really hope we can get this abomination scraped altogehter already and get proper rework.

[pzkpfwv1d]

20 hours ago, Striker2523 said:

I speak as one who has grinded through both tech trees and someone who has defended the rework but this i can not unfortuantly let slide. I dont agree with the removal of every odd numbered CV especially as some of my favorite CV's are the odd numbered ones like Hiryuu, and taiho if anything i feel this is going to ruin the CV's as it will not feel like your actually progressing in the tech trees. If you increase the amount of time your forced to grind one boat then you will get bored with it and stop wanting to play it. i am also not pleased with the fact that you guys are removing ships the Wargamming team has put a lot of time and effort into creating including the two t8 premiums Enterprise and Graf Zepllin. If anythign you guys have just super limited CV's which will in my honest opinion Shrink the amount of CV players even further not increase it as you planned. So im sorry but in my honest opinion Removing Content from a line is a horrible horrible idea Please reconsider the decision to remove ships from the game or in my opinion you will lose the complete faith of your community.

I thoroughly agree with this, it might be a ploy by WG to reduce the number of collectors club emblems that they are supposed to have issued in the current update by reducing the number of ships available by 6, the CV rework needs to be reworked because with this nobody is going to be happy 

[StLaszlo]

I grinded my Taiho to keep it, I also want my Hiryu. Taiho is a historical carrier while Hakuryuu not. I can accept if you remove them for a short time and later they return.
But I realy realy hope I will get them both when they return and not need to grind more xp, free xp, coal or doubloon on them when I grinded for them already.

[NothingButTheRain]

I was surprised by the odd number carriers being removed? I suppose this is just temporary though, would be a waste (and unwanted) to effectively remove them from the game permanently.

 

It sounds to me like this is a temporary setup, and that the remaining carriers may be returned to the game at a later date.

 

If not...then I'd be much more surprised, but lets see what happens.

 

 

The way I can get back FXP and credits for the carriers I don't want to play anymore, is fine with me.

I get the modules back fully in credit value or demounted for free. Perfectly fine and fair.

 

 

The captains of these ships and how these are reimbursed...seems like a decent deal to me? The retraining will cost ECXP though and having 2 captains for almost every even number CV is kinda pointless. It's not that big a deal to me personally anyway as I don't have very skilled captains on my CVs so I'm personally not much affected by it.

The free respec is basically a must.

 

 

And I can get the doubloons back for my permacamos fully, so no biggy there 

[mel1111]

I was just about to buy Lexington, should I or should I not?

 

 

[Tenshi]

Did you people seriously just straight up remove have the carriers and thought it's just fine????
Are you friggin mental?

If you can "balance" T4 and T6 how come you can't keep the T5 in the game?
Oh I know why, must save time and money....


I can't believe this is actually real -.- 
More dramatic my [edited]... You remove half the content out of the line in order to make it feel like T6 is much better than T4? EDIT!
I can tell a higher tier CV is better than the previous one without having to skip a tier!

They also said it's faster matchmaking and economy changes.
Because all of the cv players have such a big fkin problem waiting for a one and a half minutes in queue..................

I have never been more pissed about anything in this bloody game 
Honestly you try removing half the BBs out of the game for "balancing" issues and watch the community crash and burn.
How come this is allowed for cvs!
 

[MrConway]

21 hours ago, domino_day said:

Do I get compensation for Haku space camo if I dislike the change?

 

Yes, permanent camouflages can be sold for a full doubloon refund.

 

21 hours ago, snakecake said:

What will happen with Hiryuu and Taiho and their US counterparts? Will they be permanently removed or will they come back in alternative lines/premiums ?

 

They will be removed for the time being and might come back in future - we're not saying that they are gone forever. Limiting the amount of ships on the initial release will hopefully make it easier to properly balance them.

 

20 hours ago, Striker2523 said:

This lines killing it even more for me So there saying if we decide to sell the low tiers we lose our hgh tiers regardless not a good idea.

 

At the same time, the exchange of the researched aircraft carriers will only be allowed in reverse order (from the upper tiers to the lower tiers). For example, if you decide to sell the Ranger, you will not be able to keep the higher tier aircraft carrier (tier X Midway). XP from the ship will transfer to the ship on the first tier of this nation. When you exchange or sell permanent Camos you will be reimbursed in the full value of doubloons.

 

 

 

 

To explain, when you decide to hand one of the ships back in, you will get all of the XP spent on researching it back as well. If we let you hand back in only the lower tiers, you would have a ship in port that you have effectively not researched yet.

 

20 hours ago, Striker2523 said:

A new problem just popped in my mind to go with my original statement is that now every CV will have to spend almost 50-75% of there grinding time punching well above there tier constantly, imagine playing a lexington or shoukaku having to fight t10 surface ships most of the time. Now take that and repeat the process for t6 and t4 and tell me you wont be spending most of your grinding time getting angry at the game for putting you bottom tier and not being able to do a lot and being stuck in that position till you earn almost double the current amount of EXP you need to advance to the next ship. this will be especially brutal for the Shoukakuand Lexington with AA monsters like the Mino, Wooshter, and des moin around so to be honest this is a horrible idea even for the ships there leaving in.

 

I don't quite understand this point, in the current system there is no difference and CVs are already subject to normal +/-2 matchmaking.