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Srle_Vigilante

Gambling and Lootboxes...

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Weekend Tester
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With the upcoming black Friday deals comes of course the appropriate containers. There is the free bad odds containers and there's the paid better odds containers.

Now why am i making this topic? I am honestly concerned for WGs approach to lootboxes, with the current regulations of lootboxes that are coming up in the EU.  Because, technically they are gambling.

I personally have nothing against these types of lootboxes, but there are some people with actual gambling issues who just cant control them selves. But that's a subject for some other time. Is this really the right way of selling goods on the shop?

 

And now for the actual reason for making this topic.

 

I just wanted to start a discussion with the community here, to see your guys/girls input on this matter. Because in general around the gaming community the lootbox seems to be quite a negative thing at the moment. And with the new containers, come some spicy rewards as well. Even more then just skins. So i was wondering. Is this really the type of content that we want in our game?

Don't get me wrong i love this idea of boxes and containers, but this latest one is really pushing the line in my opinion...

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[KOKOS]
Beta Tester, Players
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Gimme lootboxes/containers. #walletisalwaysopen t2807.gif

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my input? WG's legal team has much more of an idea than we random forumites do, so they'll probably know how to stay within the bounds of the law...

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[UNICS]
Beta Tester
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I don't mind lootboxes as long as you can get the contents through other non-RNG means.

That being said I do think they should specify the chance of getting the different items.

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[POI--]
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I mean... is this any worse than Christmas containers? Except for, you know, the ships being of questionable value. Like, personally, even if I had an interest in Massachusetts or Tirpitz, I'd rather not buy BF containers, given that likely I end up with 20 camos and if I'd actually get a ship, I might end up with a goddamn Atago B (I prefer my Atago with normal camo and options for historical camos, thank you) or an Asashio B (which would mean I'd have spent money on that crap).

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[NWP]
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WG will never publish the "odds" of getting a good item, if they did so then they'd be accepting its gambling :cap_book:

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20 minutes ago, Srle_Vigilante said:

some people with actual gambling issues

Nothing you will say or do will change these individual habits.

Any addictive game causes, obesity, marriage problems, seclusion from social life, are you concerned about these problems?

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[SICK]
Weekend Tester
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I didn't mind when it was just Christmas containers, and collection containers to speed up or complete collections with some additional content inside.

But currently....
We have Halloween lootboxes, Christmas lootboxes, Black Friday lootboxes, early access ship/national arc lootboxes....

 

It's getting ridiculous, and by principle will refuse to buy Christmas lootboxes, or any other of the likes from here on out, and thus until the situation stops veering the business strategy from having the game sell you content you wish to buy and towards impulse buying crap you don't want or need for a chance to get something rare that they dangle from the heights of artificial rarity.

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9 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

my input? WG's legal team has much more of an idea than we random forumites do, so they'll probably know how to stay within the bounds of the law...

EA thought so too a couple of times. Turned out their lawyers were not up to the task. (Only mentioning the initial Origin launcher and the BF2 debacle as two examples)

 

Other gaming companies had their legal troubles too. With several countries taking a closer look at lootboxes and preparing laws or law adjustments to at least protect child gamers from gambling their money away on such lucky draws, my guess would be that this legal team has a hard time staying up to date. What's allowed in one country might suddenly be forbidden in another one.

 

Of course we forumites have even less of a clue of what's going on unless we are lawyers in the respective countries.

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Beta Tester
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The lawyers will feed at the trough of whether it is lawful but it is a no-skill game of chance for less than money, for temporary, privileged access to some numbers on a spreadsheet somewhere in Belarus.

 

 There may be no monetary value in the goods but the game does cleverly employ many of the same psychological tools that explicit gambling games use. It is far too easy to spend money in the game for me (a breathalyzer would have reduced my spend) but I can afford it and enjoy it and it provides for me good entertainment value. I suspect that many spend more than they can afford but I cannot pass judgement on WG's ethics without knowing their profit.

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[SM0KE]
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My view is that these sorts of loot boxes are okay provided that the worst thing you can get in them is worth the money spent on them, at least by the terms of regular pricing. I *think* this is the legal position too, but I could be misinformed.

 

After that, whether it's worth buying them or not is down to the individual user.

 

Personally, I view most things that you can buy with silver as worthless in a loot box, so I'm only really interested in stuff like doubloons, ships, premium time - that kind of stuff.

 

I too would like to see odds on all paid-for crates etc. WG do this in the Blitz version of WOWS; don't know why PC is different...

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[-HUN-]
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Buy dubloons

buy credits

buy flags

buy camos

buy steel

buy ship

buy captain

buy container

buy mission

buy premium time

buy super premium time

buy buy buy

 

I'm pretty sure soon you'll be able to buy whole silver tech lines, just why not? Or buy access to mods? They would sell you their own mother if you guys paid enough. And most of you buy anything so it'll only get worse.

 

QZfIZTh.jpg

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35 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

EA thought so too a couple of times. Turned out their lawyers were not up to the task. (Only mentioning the initial Origin launcher and the BF2 debacle as two examples)

 

Other gaming companies had their legal troubles too. With several countries taking a closer look at lootboxes and preparing laws or law adjustments to at least protect child gamers from gambling their money away on such lucky draws, my guess would be that this legal team has a hard time staying up to date. What's allowed in one country might suddenly be forbidden in another one.

 

Of course we forumites have even less of a clue of what's going on unless we are lawyers in the respective countries.

EA Lootcontainers are completly different from Lootcontainers here. The only common thing is that they are containers. With Bad Luck EA containers could have been empty. WoWs containers allways have some things in it. if you like it or not is your own problem. But hte said law does not match on WoWs containers since you allways get something from them.

 

Sorry for my bad english, its not my mother language.:Smile-_tongue:

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6 minutes ago, Igarigen said:

EA Lootcontainers are completly different from Lootcontainers here. The only common thing is that they are containers. With Bad Luck EA containers could have been empty. WoWs containers allways have some things in it. if you like it or not is your own problem. But hte said law does not match on WoWs containers since you allways get something from them.

 

Sorry for my bad english, its not my mother language.:Smile-_tongue:

The containers are different, that is true. But it is still gambling. Gambling is when you pay for an entry and you don't know what you'll get for that money.

The ingame containers are fine cos you don't pay for them. But the ones you buy in the shop count as gambling.

 

BTW what do you think how much tax they pay in Cyprus? Basically none. So WG has no moral right to say even a fkin word.

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14 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

The containers are different, that is true. But it is still gambling. Gambling is when you pay for an entry and you don't know what you'll get for that money.

The ingame containers are fine cos you don't pay for them. But the ones you buy in the shop count as gambling.

 

BTW what do you think how much tax they pay in Cyprus? Basically none. So WG has no moral right to say even a fkin word.

Yes you pay for them, but you get something out of the containers that is the equal ammount of costs when you would buy it in return., ore more. So you dont really loose, wich means it can only be gambling in WHAT you get.

 

No Idea, how it matters for containers if WG pay Taxes (and how much) or not.

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Beta Tester
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I'm just waiting for the day when premium currency falls under the same rules/laws as RL currency.

When you look at it, you are basicly just trading your own country currency to another, as if you were going on a vacation in another country.

 

Companies keep hiding behind the whole "The player did not use his RL money to buy this digital item, (ship in WoWS) he bought digital currency instead, wich he then used to buy the digital item with. Ergo, he have fully recieved what he spent money on, so no refund options for you and we can screw around with the item he spent digital currency on all we want!"

 

 

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1 hour ago, Igarigen said:

EA Lootcontainers are completly different from Lootcontainers here. The only common thing is that they are containers. With Bad Luck EA containers could have been empty. WoWs containers allways have some things in it. if you like it or not is your own problem. But hte said law does not match on WoWs containers since you allways get something from them.

 

Sorry for my bad english, its not my mother language.:Smile-_tongue:

Never said they are the same. I just said that lawyers of gaming companies can fail too and provided examples.

 

It's true that Wargaming containers always contain something. It's still a gamble as you do know what you'll get exactly. That's not the same as gambling by most nations laws yet you can still make an argument for gambling as you attempt to gain more value then you put in. It is up to the various governments to decide where they want to draw the line.

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IMHO the WG containers are heavy on the gambling side.

 

It's true that one will get always some value out it. So in that sense they are better compared to other games where duplicates provide nothing.  However, they still use the same exploratory mechanics to get people buying them. I'm thinking of the Royal Navy containers in combination with the DD missions. If one wants to get the mission desired, it is all about rolling the dice again and again.

 

Personally, I'm happy to give WG some money as long as I know exactly what I'll get.

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Was sitting on the toilet thinking of all of you while trying to soothe my proverbial constipation when I came across this little article posted today: https://news.sky.com/story/video-game-loot-boxes-blamed-for-rise-in-young-problem-gamblers-11559402

 

Won't be long now and we'll start seeing this type of stuff filtering down to us open-wallet types of pond scum. WG will probably make hay while the sun shines, so be prepared for a storm of lovely loot boxes, haha.

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[-ENF-]
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In our country {the netherlands} it is forbidden. For example we cant buy loot boxes in war thunder. And that will happen in wows also soon.

More country's should follow this example in my opinion.

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8 minutes ago, Somilica92 said:

In our country {the netherlands} it is forbidden. For example we cant buy loot boxes in war thunder. And that will happen in wows also soon.

More country's should follow this example in my opinion.

So Game developers should repair the wrong thing parents teached their children? Thats the real reason, young ppl struggle in live.

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7 minutes ago, Igarigen said:

So Game developers should repair the wrong thing parents teached their children? Thats the real reason, young ppl struggle in live.

Children are more susceptible to gambling compared to adults.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/44736452

 

Sure, responsible parenting will mitigate some of the effects, but there is always the risk of kids falling for this. 

There is a reason minors are not allowed to play in a casino.

 

It just so happens that the WG homepage shows a PEGI 7 rating for the game. 

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[DC-DK]
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Don't think you'll find many kids with a credit card to be honest

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[ADRIA]
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Do we really need a new version of this thread (even if it's always nearly identical to previous ones) each time a new event with containers is announced? :fish_palm:

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5 minutes ago, hgbn_dk said:

Don't think you'll find many kids with a credit card to be honest

The premium shop has a lot of different payment options, besides credit cards.

My bank offers an account starting with age 14.

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