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Thracen

Map reticule - Nice unless you are a smoke cruiser, or hiding in a storm

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So, I like the map reticule. I think it is great that you have some sort of idea of were your guns are located without needing a visual point of reference through the scope. However it does mean that certain ships in certain situations get spanked, hard. Again not an automatic disaster, unless of course those ships already are getting a serious pounding already.

 

Ladies and gents, I give you smoke cruisers. In nearly every game you don't play like a fearful coward you will be spotted unexpectedly. When this happens you smoke up, you will almost always lose 50% minimum of your health, often you will be dead. However now, your location in that smoke is known for a good 5-10 seconds longer, this drives your survival chance unreasonably low for simply sailing anywhere near a cap.

 

I think blind shooting is good for the meta, accurate blind shooting I think is boardline. Accurate blind shooting that punishes with crits. That is bad, real bad. I've been trying to play a neptune recently, and the pain well it would be too graphic to describe. Since her arrival in the game there has been massive increases in radar, hydro, oh and the smoke nerf. On top of the general powercreap of new lines. She was never a stand out to begin with, and I think she doesn't fit the progression to the mino well from the eddy.

 

So in summary. Does the map reticule nerf smoke cruisers in your opinion? If so what could be done?

 

Thanks in advance o7 

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6 minutes ago, Thracen said:

So, I like the map reticule. I think it is great that you have some sort of idea of were your guns are located without needing a visual point of reference through the scope. However it does mean that certain ships in certain situations get spanked, hard. Again not an automatic disaster, unless of course those ships already are getting a serious pounding already.

 

Ladies and gents, I give you smoke cruisers. In nearly every game you don't play like a fearful coward you will be spotted unexpectedly. When this happens you smoke up, you will almost always lose 50% minimum of your health, often you will be dead. However now, your location in that smoke is known for a good 5-10 seconds longer, this drives your survival chance unreasonably low for simply sailing anywhere near a cap.

 

I think blind shooting is good for the meta, accurate blind shooting I think is boardline. Accurate blind shooting that punishes with crits. That is bad, real bad. I've been trying to play a neptune recently, and the pain well it would be too graphic to describe. Since her arrival in the game there has been massive increases in radar, hydro, oh and the smoke nerf. On top of the general powercreap of new lines. She was never a stand out to begin with, and I think she doesn't fit the progression to the mino well from the eddy.

 

So in summary. Does the map reticule nerf smoke cruisers in your opinion? If so what could be done?

 

Thanks in advance o7 

 

Well, when i blindfire smoke-ships, i usually aim for where the bullets come from, i find that to be way more accurate than the little map circle thingy.

 

Only time i really use the map circle is in storms, and i think thats a good thing, as it does give cruisers atleast some chance to be effective in smoke, without having to brawl.

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  • Do not get spotted
  • Do not smoke up and stand still
  • Do not smoke up and shoot before the smoke surrounds you

Have shot too many enemy ships who smoked up where they stood, you do not even need a marker for that.

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Hmm I agree with what you are saying chaps, however I'm speaking of those moments when you are not expecting to be spotted but then are, you slam on the breaks dump smoke, but the map will leave a nice "last known location" shadow for people to shift their cursor too and click, even if they weren't watching.

 

It's this accurate and painful fire I am discussing. Something new I have noticed in my return to smoke ccs since this addition to the game.

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17 minutes ago, Thracen said:

Hmm I agree with what you are saying chaps, however I'm speaking of those moments when you are not expecting to be spotted but then are, you slam on the breaks dump smoke, but the map will leave a nice "last known location" shadow for people to shift their cursor too and click, even if they weren't watching.

 

It's this accurate and painful fire I am discussing. Something new I have noticed in my return to smoke ccs since this addition to the game.

i dont think that people are using that marker when they are hitting you in such situations. I mean surely you dont slam the break and instantly stand still right after getting despotted? Cause thats the only way that marker is gonna be accurate.

 

Most likely they just tracked you until you got despotted and fired where they thought you would be

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I feel like I am exposed for longer, and that incoming fire is more accurate. I have also used this myself..... several devastating strikes later I have a strong anecdotal base. Again I'm talking of maybe 1 or two crits per exposure, but that is more than enough to end a CC. 

 

Of course none of this would be much of an issue if you could rely on dds and carriers to spot, however we all know that dreamland ain't here :D .

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Getting spotted while in the field of fire of the enemy team is the problem.

Avoid that and the marker will not bother you.

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Ahh, yes. The ever helpful "get gud" response. I suppose I should take it you both don't think this is an issue in the slightest?

 

I'd like to think I'm not a complete scrub, and I think the idea of a smoke cruiser never being rendered by the enemy in a battle is next to impossible no? I have certainly never seen it done I don't think, at least while a player was you know, playing.

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Playing a smoke cruiser has gotten a lot harder over the last year, the marker did its part. But people also learnd to shoot, when they see your gun firing.

And yes, it is next to impossible not to get spotted the entire match, atleast if you try to get the full potential out of ships like Neptune and Minotaur.

My conclusion has been: In the current meta, T9/T10 RN CLs with smoke are not the best option anymore. Pick radar and play them like a Worcester - camp island, use radar to block caps.

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Thanks Forlorn that is constructive and on topic, however "sail other ships" wasn't quite what I was hoping for. Although accepting I'm in a rough ship will probably help me somewhat.

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5 hours ago, Thracen said:

I suppose I should take it you both don't think this is an issue in the slightest?

I feel no difference to before.

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6 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

Playing a smoke cruiser has gotten a lot harder over the last year, the marker did its part. But people also learnd to shoot, when they see your gun firing.

And yes, it is next to impossible not to get spotted the entire match, atleast if you try to get the full potential out of ships like Neptune and Minotaur.

My conclusion has been: In the current meta, T9/T10 RN CLs with smoke are not the best option anymore. Pick radar and play them like a Worcester - camp island, use radar to block caps.

Not in my experience. More ppl shooting in smoke is good in general, but haven't made the game with T9/T10 RN CLs (with smoke) sub-optimal. The RN CLs skill cap was always higher then other ship lines and it will remain this way for the foreseeable future. The map reticule didn't change anything in general (maybe just 0,5-1% more hits on smoked targets).

 

Currently the Minotaur is my go-to ship, after a long losing streak. 

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More and more poor to average players (49%-54%wr) are learning how to smoke shoot these days. Don't know if someone made a video about it recently or what but it's really weird how many people suddenly learned how to smoke shoot over about the past 2 or 3 months. 

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I only use that reticule during cyclones. If you are in smoke either I saw you slow down and guessed where you’d be or I’m firing between your turrets and you aren’t moving.

my map, for whatever reason, doesn’t show last knownposition. How can I enable it?

 

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2 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

More and more poor to average players (49%-54%wr) are learning how to smoke shoot these days. Don't know if someone made a video about it recently or what but it's really weird how many people suddenly learned how to smoke shoot over about the past 2 or 3 months. 

Flamu  said something about using a spotter plane. Works a treat! 

I wonder if WG need to adjust it so that we don’t see the shells until they leave the smoke. Not even sure if it’s possible.

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37 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

I only use that reticule during cyclones. If you are in smoke either I saw you slow down and guessed where you’d be or I’m firing between your turrets and you aren’t moving.

my map, for whatever reason, doesn’t show last knownposition. How can I enable it?

 

You can control your mouse by pressing ctrl and then next to the minimap there is a cog icon, you can change minimap settings there.

 

And for me the biggest advantage of the "x marks the spot" is shooting ships in cyclone, before blindfiring targets above 8km was like winning a lottery, but now you can consistently hit ships that you can't see yourself.

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41 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

More and more poor to average players (49%-54%wr).

54% player is average in your book? Boy, that means you're "average" as well. Unless you count you being carried by 3 man divisions.

Spoiler

image.png.e7b9e1a94cc7af8a2bc0046bca524782.png



 

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11 minutes ago, Blixies said:

54% player is average in your book? Boy, that means you're "average" as well. Unless you count you being carried by 3 man divisions.

  Hide contents

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I am with you, OP. I already was against the mod version of it and I still believe to this day that it is not needed. 

RN cruisers in general have low concealment so you can easily spot enemy ships with them, until you get detected by a destroyer. At that point you want to smoke up, because who doesn't like easy damage. Bam, marked on the minimap. Battleships and cruisers see you firing, make a guess, double check it with the minimap and fire their guns.
Yes, you can move, but most players only move forward or backward, so all you have to do is hold the reticule over last known position, shift it to the gunfire and watch the citadel ribbons pop up.

I suggested awhile ago to make it possible to fire either your rear or front guns, that way you can trick people a bit again. I think this would be a nice buff for smoke cruisers. 
My current advice is to use radar and just dodge.

EDIT: Also the reason I always play radar YY. Smoke screens just kill me. No matter in what ship I am lolz

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9 hours ago, Thracen said:

Ahh, yes. The ever helpful "get gud" response. I suppose I should take it you both don't think this is an issue in the slightest?

 

I'd like to think I'm not a complete scrub, and I think the idea of a smoke cruiser never being rendered by the enemy in a battle is next to impossible no? I have certainly never seen it done I don't think, at least while a player was you know, playing.

I wasnt hinting at "git gud" that much, although it certainly is never a bad idea :D

 

I was more arguing that the minimap marker is probably the least used tool while shooting in smoke, as there are two more accurate ways:

 

1. Shoot at the source of the shots coming out of the smoke. Gives you a perfect view of exactly where he is, and at what angle and speed he is moving. Works especially well since most smoke ships have a fast reload.

 

2. fire predictive shots just as the smoking ship gets despotted

 

Honestly, that marker doesnt do anything useful unless you are standing completely still while getting unspotted, and then not moving at all in the smoke, and at that point, the marker is just natural selection at its finest.

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35 minutes ago, Blixies said:

54% player is average in your book? Boy, that means you're "average" as well. Unless you count you being carried by 3 man divisions.

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i dont play solo anymore and havnt for years. have you ever considered i carry my divs? i know you may be trying to make yourself feel better by trying to pick holes in my stats anywhere you can but unfortunately it has not worked. if i played solo regularly still then you would have a point but as i do not because i see no reason to it or fun in it then you have no point at all. it would be like my looking at your stats 2 years ago and calling you up on them. they mean nothing now. :)

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1 hour ago, Mr_Snoww said:

More and more poor to average players (49%-54%wr) are learning how to smoke shoot these days. Don't know if someone made a video about it recently or what but it's really weird how many people suddenly learned how to smoke shoot over about the past 2 or 3 months. 

OR, could it also be, that more and more players are bothering to shoot into smoke, period. I think a big part of the equation is that players are no longer ignoring angry smoke screens like they used to in the past and have decided it's worth to take a shot and hope for a hit. More attempts -> more hits...

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44 minutes ago, Blixies said:

54% player is average in your book? Boy, that means you're "average" as well. Unless you count you being carried by 3 man divisions.

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.e7b9e1a94cc7af8a2bc0046bca524782.png



 

642634948_OperaSnapshot_2018-11-15_085714_wows-numbers_com.thumb.png.d4f090af717787834df8b8fc5c050255.png

oh and by the way this guy didnt show the full page. take a look at the recent solo stats. if you are trying to stat shame me at least do it properly sir. 

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10 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

 have you ever considered i carry my divs? 

No I have not. Nobody with a sound mind would consider that - seeing your solo stats.
You have a point with divisions being the superior way of playing.
My point still stands: It's very arrogant calling 54% WR players "average" from your high 3-man horse. 

P.S.: looks like I struck a nerve there.

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