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Migantium_Mashum

T8 BB's in T10 games, an idea for survival.

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I see many T8 BB players complaining about the MM, about being sent into battles against T10 BB's.

Obviously, they gripe about not being able to match the firepower of their higher tier enemy...

I have had a theory about how T8 BB's could survive better and after another game in my GK with a Tirpitz consort I think it is right.

 

If a T8 BB allies himself to a T10 BB and stays within 6km of his ally, not only does it improve offensive or defensive capability for main armament, secondary armament, with improved AA cover but more importantly incoming fire seems more dispersed than if you are alone.. In a game facing 2 T10 BB's and a T8 BB neither I nor my Tirptiz ally received many hits from salvos fired and between us accounted for 2 of the 3 enemy BB's who were not close to each other.. As a T8 stay on the side of your ally which is dark to your enemy.. so if the enemy is starboard then position yourself on the Port side of your ally..

 

At the start of the game I asked Tirptiz to join me and told him to stay Port side, as the action was all starboard, within 6km of my hull...everything just rolled from there and the Tirptiz came through the entire game.. It also helped that Tirptiz read the chat as we were not in Division and followed the instructions I gave him.

 

If you're T8 give it a try... It may just be coincidence but.....

 

 

 

 

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Screenshot (455).png

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You are expecting people to not only understand but actively pursue teamplay in this team game.

 

Therein lies the problem.

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3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

You are expecting people to not only understand but actively pursue teamplay in this team game.

 

Therein lies the problem.

@El2aZeR Hey " I have a dream." please don't burst the bubble before it rises.... you never know...:Smile_teethhappy:

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T8 BBs in TX matches have an easy life, if they know how to play.

 

It is the cruisers that get shafted by MM. BB players just tend to cry more on average. 

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54 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

T8 BBs in TX matches have an easy life, if they know how to play.

 BB players just tend to cry more on average. 

 

This.

Once i basicly killed a Conq 1v1 in my Bismarck (granted, he was that stupid)

Other time tanked and killed a GK (also Bismarck), but had some help from my team. Most average players think, "im T10, he is T8, what can he do to me" and they overconfidently keep broadsiding. This is ofc not limited to BBs (my Fiji and Shchors would like to have a word in that killing a Neptune and Seattle respectively because they broadsided :cap_cool:)

 

Recently ive come to the conclusion however, that T6 vs T8 is more unfair that T8 vs T10, so i think its actually better that MM is the way it is. (only thing which needs improvement not having 1-2 T8 ships/side in an otherwise T10 only match)

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T8 BBs crying about being bottom tier is hilarious.

Sure thing buddy, you're totally going to suffer, with those 380-406mm guns, 70k HP with heal, 32mm plating or more, 20km or more range, 350mm belt or more, and access to concealment module.


I cri everytiem ;-;

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I don't see the problem with tier 8 b's being in tier 10 matches, their survivability is good unless facing higher tier cvs'. The real problem is for tier 8 dd and cruiser players who neither have the gun or torp range to take on too many higher tier ships, let alone evade the mass of radar ships. BB's have the easy life. Next concern please, one that's real this time please OP.

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6 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

This.

Once i basicly killed a Conq 1v1 in my Bismarck (granted, he was that stupid)

Other time tanked and killed a GK (also Bismarck), but had some help from my team. Most average players think, "im T10, he is T8, what can he do to me" and they overconfidently keep broadsiding. This is ofc not limited to BBs (my Fiji and Shchors would like to have a word in that killing a Neptune and Seattle respectively because they broadsided :cap_cool:)

 

Recently ive come to the conclusion however, that T6 vs T8 is more unfair that T8 vs T10, so i think its actually better that MM is the way it is. (only thing which needs improvement not having 1-2 T8 ships/side in an otherwise T10 only match)

Agreed. I'm not that good, but my div mate is. We usually play T8 div, he mostly takes a DD or sometimes a BB. 

Not rarely we end up halfway the top of the scoreboard, usually he ends up top 3 (either in a DD or a BB). Also in TX matches. 

I never end up last unless I screw up badly. 

 

If we take T7 or T8 cruisers and get uptiered to T9 or TX well... we usually end up pretty much dead and last. 

BBs are tough enough and I don't care even if they put me in a Queen Elizabeth in a T9 match. 

 

Conq tears are sweeeeet eh? They use HE only, and they forget that other BBs do have AP... and use it.... BOOMSHANKA!

 

 

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4 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Conq tears are sweeeeet eh? They use HE only, and they forget that other BBs do have AP... and use it.... BOOMSHANKA! 

 

You know whats best? He basicly burned to death :cap_haloween:

He DCPed one fire from my secondaries, while i just shot, so i did switch to HE, and he had 2 permafires after that :cap_cool:

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13 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

You know whats best? He basicly burned to death :cap_haloween:

He DCPed one fire from my secondaries, while i just shot, so i did switch to HE, and he had 2 permafires after that :cap_cool:

That's funny, too. But he neds to be dead else he comes back with his zombie-heal.

 

Usually I approach them sort of angled, then swing out the rear and let the AP rip. 

Sometimes they stupidly carry on spamming HE at a target that is in front of them until I am at 7km or so. 

I only shoot when I see them turning the guns... mostly resulting in citadels. Also helps, we usually 'double team' them.

My mate is usually in a DD or in the Bismarck. 

 

Sometimes they get pretty salty - I run IFHE on the Monarch. Bowcamping doesn't work at all... 

It even pens all over on a Yamato except the armour belt, even at long distance. It's criminal!

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There seems to be a thing that where two ships are in close proximity it makes it very difficult for the game to "lock" on the one that you're shooting at (even using manual lock), kind of giving you a survivability buff if you team up like the OP mentions as it decreases the accuracy of incoming fire.  Of course that can also mean that the reds accidentally hit what they should have missed...

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15 minutes ago, MyopicHedgehog said:

There seems to be a thing that where two ships are in close proximity it makes it very difficult for the game to "lock" on the one that you're shooting at (even using manual lock), kind of giving you a survivability buff if you team up like the OP mentions as it decreases the accuracy of incoming fire.  Of course that can also mean that the reds accidentally hit what they should have missed...

This is true, I do not use the lock-on when I have a ship that is closer than 5km. 

Works much better, if it is a DD rushing you, never makes it... blow it clean out of the water. 

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1 hour ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I run IFHE on the Monarch

Dosnt british BB HE have 1/4 pen ? (making IFHE usles)?

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Don’t give up from the start. Don’t push into enemy team when you have no backup. Don’t lemming. And please for god sake don’t shoot HE.

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Vor 11 Stunden, Migantium_Mashum sagte:

If you're T8 give it a try... It may just be coincidence but.....

Who are you? On a Kurfürst without lacking brains. Is that allowed?

 

With my Hipper 2 matches in a row:

  1. (Mountain Range starting North (east part))T10 match only a Bismarck, a Kurfürst, a DD and me on this side on enemy side a Hindi and a Yamato and a cleveland, no DD, 2nd BB went west. Kurfürst just got right behind next Island, DD went for cap, Bismarck following for support, went most east to get behind the island closest to cap. Enemy Cleveland started spamming HE on Bismarck, But Bismarck hold the stage until DD capped, Bismarck even managed to turn around and escape behind an island next to Kurfürsts hideout. Somehow Kurfürst managed it to become HE spamed by cleveland, being unable to fire back efficently but kept position. Meanwhile Yamato came out behind island on left side  going after Bismarck. While Hindi went slowly for recapping (exposing itself to a lame Kurfürst, that started firing but didn't even move enough to get at least the second turrent  to fire past island, too. DD just fired torps at Yamato before getting away savely... So there I Was Hindy coming on my right Yamato on my left my bow pointing east towards yamatos path. I knew i couldn't turn away from Yamato, so instead I speed up and turned into her, firing torps and intending to ram her... well of course Yamato was alert, taking me almost out. Luckyly two DD torps had hit her and she had just repaired floading, luckyly I caused floading again and managed to set her on fire  before hindi gave me the last blow. So this Yamato was goint down to below 10k health and the hindi was already truning away to get for cover, assuming Yamatos death. However it survived with 7k... All Kurfürst had to do was movinf a little to the front, or to the back, to either tick her off wih front or rear turrents... Mentioned it in the chat like 10 times, Bismarck (had gone west) told him, since bismarck was totally blocked by islands. Even our DD sailed back to do it itself. Damn sure that Kurfürst didn't move but kept hitting the island with 3 turrents and missing the hindi with one turret. Well Batlle took some timeand when DD finaly spotted Yamato it was in behind Kurfürst already back at half health. Giving Kurfürst some loads up her [edited]. Of course Kurfürst had his turrets still turned towards already disappered hindi, of course the DD could not torp through kurfürst but hat to sail around a small island to get on Yamato from far east side.... And Kurfürst did take 3 Yamato salvos before he finally got his turrents on her, firing HE. BAM! No idea what happened next, I left the game.
  2. (Land of fire starting North)Sailed across half the map to support a Kurfürst fighting 2 CA (Bufallo and Roon) and a DD Z--(don't recall) between Islands at the eastern rim of map, while taking in long disctance shots from a Montana. Basically because my Zao and my Des Moines didn't have the guts to give support although there were enough island.  Almost round that Island between me and Kurfürst and Iowa pops around the Island in fron of Kurfürst unloading a nice broadside on it. Roon was at that moment hiding behind other Islands and Bufalo went of for beeing assumingly not needed.  I pop round my island, blindfired AP on Roon (yeah  was preloaded changing to HE after that shot) unloaded all my starbord torpedos, bowing in head on to Iowa to at least ram it, or eventually launch port torps too. I was lucky since the DD had me comming and his torp salve just passe me on the port side. I was lucky because I got Iowa torped and Kurfürst (trolling away) gave her the final 2k kill. I was lucky since I was a little to the right of Iowas bow. I was lucky since the truing in Z-xy did ram Iowas wreck and got stuck.  So i truned in more to get my aft turrets on him too. Kurfürst at still 3/4 health, anyway protected by the wreck of Iowa pissed of behind Island so it couldn't even support with secondaries. The DD was down to final shot when Montana citadeled me long range into obliviation. Aftermath, Kurfürst slowly kept creeping around that island Iowa did hide behind, Z-xy turned and sunk it single strike with all but one torp hitting right the broadside. Next stage Kurfürst insults me on chat for not beeing able to gun down the DD. I hat made 106k toal damage 96k within the last 2 minutes (even hit roon for 5k in his hideout) and I become accused of beeing useless.

After this 2 Games in a row I called it a day and logged off from Game.

 

So dude you tell me Teamplay, I'd definitely appreaciate if you spread your idea among community and eventually meet you on my team.

 

I personally see my role in Bismarck and Tirpitz in T10 matches as DD hunter, at least that's what I end up with, usually with a Yamato or Montana hiding behind my stern and sometimes even encouraging CA to pop out of their island hideouts. Most beloved moments on Tirpitz Torpi Torps:

  1. Sneaking around Island up to a fog cloud, Enemy Gearing just fired his torps, noticed me way too late, tried to ram me but catched my little fishes on 1,8km distance.
  2. All alone bowing in on a Yamato, me firing HE from front turrets and eventually some secondaries while twiggling left an right. Then I went for turning starboard gibing a broadside but reversing engines. Greedy Yamato failed to hit me, mere two strais in the bow.  However I had changed to AP and gave him a cheerfull hello. I did speed up again and turned in on Yamato, but not unless getting rid of 4 little fishes.  Torped her, gave her two broadsides while passing, got a quite painfull broadside myself but my secondaries din't leave Yamato with enought time to reload again. Poor guy... Next victim was a Montana but lacking health and healing I had to ram it, and died too.

How I miss those days of brawling with the fellow BBs....

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Vor 9 Minuten, P2Win sagte:

Don’t give up from the start. Don’t push into enemy team when you have no backup. Don’t lemming. And please for god sake don’t shoot HE.

Can you please decide, either T10 lemming or give no support. You know why I hate T7 and T6 matches, because I can't hunt down DDs in those, cruiser still do their jobs in medium tiers.

 

Vor 12 Stunden, El2aZeR sagte:

You are expecting people to not only understand but actively pursue teamplay in this team game.

 

Therein lies the problem.

I guess we should move this to off-topic paying tribute to reality.

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1 hour ago, GA_Tirpitz said:

With my Hipper 2 matches in a row:

As much as it pains me to say... this is the main issue with your experience. There's like no reason to play Hipper over any other T8 cruiser, except to get to Roon. If you have to, play Prinz Eugen, at least you get a repair party. Otherwise, any other T8 cruiser is better than the Hipper. I still have Hipper in port (because I want to like the ship), but honestly, when I feel like challenging myself in a T8 cruiser, I pick Cleveland, Chapayev or Atago most of the time.

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Vor 47 Minuten, Riselotte sagte:

As much as it pains me to say... this is the main issue with your experience. There's like no reason to play Hipper over any other T8 cruiser, except to get to Roon. If you have to, play Prinz Eugen, at least you get a repair party. Otherwise, any other T8 cruiser is better than the Hipper. I still have Hipper in port (because I want to like the ship), but honestly, when I feel like challenging myself in a T8 cruiser, I pick Cleveland, Chapayev or Atago most of the time.

You got it, nevertheless the Hipper is a viable ship, mastering the weakest T8 cruiser in line is quite usefull to gather experience. One that plays only the best of the class is prone to overrate his achievements. And I don't neet to tell you what it means to get in a "defet complete idiots" game ranked well above a Minotaur. Needles to say that Cleveland has also some flaws in handling if you're not used to firing over islands. I myself find Hipper and Cleveland best for learning for life. Something I can't claim to be true for Yorck.

 

By the way got 66% win rate on Hipper thought just 41 battles.  I play Hipper usually extremely focussing on tactics.

 

Or as Adenauer said after WWII: One doesn't dump off dirt water unless one gets fresh water at hand.

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1 minute ago, GA_Tirpitz said:

You got it, nevertheless the Hipper is a viable ship, mastering the weakest T8 cruiser in line is quite usefull to gather experience. One that plays only the best of the class is prone to overrate his achievements. And I don't neet to tell you what it means to get in a "defet complete idiots" game ranked well above a Minotaur. Needles to say that Cleveland has also some flaws in handling if you're not used to firing over islands. I myself find Hipper and Cleveland best for learning for life. Something I can't claim to be true for Yorck.

 

Or as Adenauer said after WWII: One doesn't dump of dirt water unless one gets fresh water at hand.

Cleveland is not balanced around 27 mm hull armour. Cleveland has good dpm, radar, defAA and hydro, is deceptively tanky for being a light cruiser and is pretty solid in any game. Because regardless of what you get matched against, these strengths always matter, regardless of whether you are vs T6 and can utterly dominate or whether you are against T10 and still have all the same strengths and all the same weaknesses. Hipper is balanced around 27 mm armour, which against T6 is nice, but against T8 and up quickly falls apart and when you start to have to island camp to avoid getting blasted out of the water by a Montana that doesn't give a damn about your 27 mms, or get simply dpmed into the ground by a Harugumo, you are basically kind of deadweight.

 

And Yorck got buffs to its ammo, so I'm not even sure whether one could call it bad. Considering it now has hard hitting AP and HE (better HE dpm than Hipper even), all it lacks compared to Hipper is the ability to tank BBs. Neglecting recent announcements stating WG wants to make CAs able to stand up to BB AP when angled, I rather take the squishy T7 into T7 MM than taking Hipper into T8. Worst case, I'm getting thrown into a T9 match, where only a premium T7 would be vastly more useful, while Hipper most of the time basically does nothing other tech tree cruisers couldn't do better.

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14 hours ago, N00Boo7 said:

Dosnt british BB HE have 1/4 pen ? (making IFHE usles)?

Yup, 4 points wasted

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14 hours ago, N00Boo7 said:

Dosnt british BB HE have 1/4 pen ? (making IFHE usles)?

 

17 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Sometimes they get pretty salty - I run IFHE on the Monarch. Bowcamping doesn't work at all...  

It even pens all over on a Yamato except the armour belt, even at long distance. It's criminal!

381 mm / 6 = 63 mm penetration capability - there is no bow with that armor ^^'

if they use 1/4 it's 95 mm.

In case of the Yamato, there is mostly only armor around 30, and 50 mm or the citadell armor

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The long range BBS at tier 8 do far better in a tier 10 match then the Bismarck in my experience. I think that is true across the board when being uptiered though.

 

In my Alabama I would usually stick with high tier cruisers. 

Seems to work ok.

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14 hours ago, GA_Tirpitz said:

I hat made 106k toal damage 96k within the last 2 minutes (even hit roon for 5k in his hideout) and I become accused of beeing useless.

So 10k damage for most of the match, then 96k in the last 2 min? Sounds pretty useless to me.

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18 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Sometimes they get pretty salty - I run IFHE on the Monarch. Bowcamping doesn't work at all... 

It even pens all over on a Yamato except the armour belt, even at long distance. It's criminal!

Like what? why would you do that? you basicly pen 93mm of Armor without it. The Monarch has the 381mm Guns meaning her Firechance is subpar to other british battleships. Her AP is amazing. and that 4 Points can be used much more effective in Fireprevention for example as you go for conq you should also think about surviability expert if you aint running it yet because it buffs the megaheal from lion onwards. v But IFHE is pure waste of skillpoints. *shrug*

 

 

 

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