USN BBs need buffs

[Prospect_b]

You probably think I'm drunk/high/stupid?

 

You'd be right. Except it isn't me who is saying it...

 

Spoiler

 

1.

Are you insane WG? Is this from the guy who made the yueyang nerfs proposal?

 

While I can understand buffing the New Yorck, cause you powercrept the hell out of the tier range it sees (did I already congratulate you on making Julio the posterchild of balans?), and maybe(!) some very minor tweaks on New Mex/Colorado, the other ships - i.e. Wyoming, NC, Iowa - are just fine.

 

Why are you even considering this? Did you get too many mails of players that got citadelled while giving broadside and thought it to be unfair given it didn't happen to other, newer BBs?

 

If anything, most BBs in this game, with very few exceptions, need a nerf. Be it concealment, agility, speed, AA, the impossibility to punish them heavily when giving broadside, or any combination thereoff.

 

 

2.

Only BB that does require buff is Izumo, cause it it is still trash.

 

Freddy doesn't. That ship is just a relict from an older age, and doesn't work really in the current meta. That meta I'd define as a combination of: extreme passivity, with max range (20-25km) sniping, immer present kiting, dpm race on dds and CLs.

 

Fix other ships and hope to influence the meta, which is the biggest borefest ever atm, in stead of adjusting other ships to suit it.

 

3.

Buff hinden eh?... Can I make a suggestion? What about giving it a second faster reload?

You're welcome, just send me the doubloons.

 

Can you maybe not nerf a ship, months before buffing other ships of that type and tier, next time? It might save you major regrets.

Again, you're welcome.

 

 

Since I've recently lost my first official warning on this forum, I'd be tempted to add some more lines, but I'll leave it at that.

[loppantorkel]

Plenty of seemingly good changes in there.

FDG seriously needs a buff imo. It's complete trash to play atm. I haven't played Iowa much, but considering how people usually play it, it looks pretty bad too.

Also nice to see them having tried the LoS radar. No rush.

Flooding mechanic haven't been talked about much, but I agree that it could be improved. Should be interesting.

IFHE - good that they are looking to change it.

CA - CL damage and armour: nice to see. I hope they also look at AP pen between them while they're at it.

 

In all pretty nice

 

[JimmyThePirate]

To keep my response short and sweet, the Colorado goes 21 knots, the NC goes 27 knots... these guys are getting matched up against other BBs that regularly do 30 or more knots.

 

Its time the USN BB tree had some buffs to help balance this out.

[El2aZeR]

I mean, considering BBs are the primary victims of the CV rework maybe they're actually going to need these buffs. The NC I almost deleted with a single Midway DB strike will surely think so. 

[Prospect_b]

13 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

I haven't played Iowa much, but considering how people usually play it, it looks pretty bad too.

You mean, they sit bow in all game, giving up 1/3 of their guns, while enemy yamato's etc also sit bow in and overmatch them, while being spammed by HE? And then getting low on health, trying to get out and make the turn of death?

 

Yea poor guys... Buff that ship now!

 

 

I played that ship quite recently. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

I was more shocked about a possible Myoko buff. 

[anonym_mlJIAFnOwMVb]

no need to ask for salt here. OP brought plenty....

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, Saiyko said:

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

1.

Are you insane WG? Is this from the guy who made the yueyang nerfs proposal?

 

While I can understand buffing the New Yorck, cause you powercrept the hell out of the tier range it sees (did I already congratulate you on making Julio the posterchild of balans?), and maybe(!) some very minor tweaks on New Mex/Colorado, the other ships - i.e. Wyoming, NC, Iowa - are just fine.

 

Why are you even considering this? Did you get too many mails of players that got citadelled while giving broadside and thought it to be unfair given it didn't happen to other, newer BBs?

 

Lets see the detailed plan first.

 

As you said, half the ships need some tweaks. And if the remaining ships get some really minor improvements, I do not see the problem.

[Tyrendian89]

3 hours ago, Saiyko said:

 

2.

Only BB that does require buff is Izumo, cause it it is still trash.

 

Freddy doesn't. That ship is just a relict from an older age, and doesn't work really in the current meta. That meta I'd define as a combination of: extreme passivity, with max range (20-25km) sniping, immer present kiting, dpm race on dds and CLs.

 

I'll have to respectfully disagree here. Izumo is in a plenty good place right now since the buff to her deck - the guns always were absolutely fantastic, and she's quite good against BB AP, and now she's also relatively hard to HE spam down.

 

Freddy, meanwhile, doesnt really have much going for it, kinda like the rest of the line. In theory, the Germans should be the tankiest, but since nobody has a citadel at high tiers these days the difference is marginal at best. The main artillery stinks, and secondaries arent all that relevant (plus, Alsace does that better anyways). Sure, it's still a BB so it can't very well be downright terrible, and in a different meta it might be an okay ship - but changing that is utopian since it'd require rewiring the brains of thousands of potatoes, so I'd much rather they make the ship workable in what we have.

 

Like you, I really dont see why NC and Iowa would need any buffs at all though, particularly since there's this little thing with planes coming soon^tm and those two are pretty much the quintessential AA Battleships - so why not accentuate that aspect a bit over the course of the general rebalance if you really want to do something? No idea about Wyoming, NY certainly stinks, but I never got the impression that NewMex or Colorado had been powercrept that hard? Might not be the best at their tier (since they kinda both have IJN competition in the exact same niche that is less annoyingly slow, for one thing), but they seemed to do just fine...?

[Prospect_b]

1 minute ago, Tyrendian89 said:

I'll have to respectfully disagree here. Izumo is in a plenty good place right now since the buff to her deck - the guns always were absolutely fantastic, and she's quite good against BB AP, and now she's also relatively hard to HE spam down.

IJN & KM BBs were one of the last lines I hadn't completed yet. Finished GK a few weeks ago, still at Izumo, so I played both of them somewhat simultaneously.

 

I went with the big calibre & full sec on Freddy. Sure the secondary spec, as you stated, is not that valuable, but I find the game has become somewhat stale with the uniform tank/stealth build, and it is somewhat fun when you can use it.

With the big calibre. Sigh. I don't want to be that guy who has no valid arguments so has to go to his feels, but they did feel so much more reliable than the small calibre.

 

The Izumo on the other hand, I just call it the troll-overpen-machine. Overpens all day long, on everything. Broadside cruiser at 11 km, here's four overpens. Only day before yesterday: full broadside mino at 8ish km, 1 cit (hurray) AND three overpens.

The most reliable damage seems to be on BBs, and even then.

 

 

tldr: Freddy can troll you with shells flying to five different continents, but when they hit, they do reliable damage. Even the trollishness in the dispersion was quite ok - while Izumo hits reliable, but does trollish damage.

 

Though feel free to share your secrets with me :)

[Tyrendian89]

1 minute ago, Saiyko said:

IJN & KM BBs were one of the last lines I hadn't completed yet. Finished GK a few weeks ago, still at Izumo, so I played both of them somewhat simultaneously.

 

I went with the big calibre & full sec on Freddy. Sure the secondary spec, as you stated, is not that valuable, but I find the game has become somewhat stale with the uniform tank/stealth build, and it is somewhat fun when you can use it.

With the big calibre. Sigh. I don't want to be that guy who has no valid arguments so has to go to his feels, but they did feel so much more reliable than the small calibre.

 

The Izumo on the other hand, I just call it the troll-overpen-machine. Overpens all day long, on everything. Broadside cruiser at 11 km, here's four overpens. Only day before yesterday: full broadside mino at 8ish km, 1 cit (hurray) AND three overpens.

The most reliable damage seems to be on BBs, and even then.

 

 

tldr: Freddy can troll you with shells flying to five different continents, but when they hit, they do reliable damage. Even the trollishness in the dispersion was quite ok - while Izumo hits reliable, but does trollish damage.

 

Though feel free to share your secrets with me :)

between the german 406 and 420s I dont have anything else than feeling to go on either - there really isnt much in terms of stats to differentiate them   And weirdly, on the Freddy I preferred the 406ers due to the reload, while on the GK the dank 420s performed much better... dont ask me why or how that worked...

and I mean, I run a full secondary spec Alsace, so I can't really talk much about "always going for the most efficient build"

 

For the Izumo, yeah at closer ranges your amazing ballistics and superb pen will give you more overpens than other BBs, but there are also advantages to that... she's certainly more of a BB hunter than a cruiser killer with those guns (kinda similar to how the French 15"ers performed for me), so I kinda just choose my targets accordingly and give that little bit extra priority to broadsiding BBs over cruisers than I normally would, and aim a little lower against less armoured targets to maybe get some underwater citadels. Overall, honestly, Izumo is so tanky nowadays (AND no longer spotted from the moon, that also helps a ton!) that I dont feel like she needs the absolute best armament at her tier to be competitive.

[DFens_666]

FDG was so horribly unfun to play i skipped it with FreeXP - the only time i did that so far

Sure i know its mostly the meta, but when you fight a Donskoi and Minotaur broadside at >8km, you should be able to somewhat delete them, not tickle them to death with 2 overpens because your guns decided to hit everything but the ship.

 

As for US BBs:

I think they should give NY, NM and Colorado a speedboost (maybe NY needs some other buffs aswell). They are slow af, but they are dreadnoughts after all, so buffing their speed in general doesnt seem to fit their role.

 

Probably their standard move for NC/Iowa:

lower the citadel

[ghostbuster_]

This is just ridiculous. NC and Iowa doesnt need buffs at all just like montana didnt before WG lowered her citadels. @MrConway where do you get these ideas from? How can wg even think that NC and Iowa need buffs? From which aspect do they perform poorly? And im gonna say this one more time. you can not balance the game around potatoes. Its not right. Even if you gave laser guided missiles to ships, there would be some "people" who would ask for buffs to those ships.

 

 

btw about conq nerf: i dont know how many times i said this. "Dont touch the HE damage, insene fire chance, concealment and stupid heal if you want, fine! Just raise the citadels to yamato citadels level so conq can get punished if it makes a mistake." And wg needed more data to see the obvious. Im glad to see that they finally gathered enough data after such a long time and they finally decided to raise conq citadels! 

 

[ghostbuster_]

4 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

Plenty of seemingly good changes in there.

FDG seriously needs a buff imo. It's complete trash to play atm. I haven't played Iowa much, but considering how people usually play it, it looks pretty bad too.

 

 

Well if you didnt watch a humanbeing playing iowa, sure she might look bad. 

[HatsuzukiKaiNi]

Most of the changes they're considering seem pretty good, some of the US battleships could indeed do with a buff, I'd say the Colorado, New Mexico and New York could all do with some changes as they've all been powercrept a bit. I don't think I'd be for a buff to the NC or Iowa though, they're both pretty good ships as they are. 

 

It's good to see them finally going back and changing some of the more underperforming ships though, tier five especially could really use a long look at the balance, especially the cruisers, a lot of them need some love as they're some of the worst ships to get uptiered with that there are, a furutaka with 13km range or an Omaha who is overmatched by even cruiser guns are not going to do so well in tier seven unless the player in them is very good.

[Rick_Hunter]

Maybe US-BBs will get their pre-nerf citadels back, who knows 

[Prospect_b]

3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Lets see the detailed plan first.

 

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

Probably their standard move for NC/Iowa:

lower the citadel

 

28 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

like montana didnt before WG lowered her citadels

 

I forgot to mention in the original post ffs. Yeah, my gut feeling is telling me they are going to get their citadels lowered.

 

 

[Major_Damage225]

4 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

I was more shocked about a possible Myoko buff. 

You mean Myogi 

[Panocek]

8 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

You mean Myogi 

Myokos get turret traverse buff too

[Major_Damage225]

5 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Myokos get turret traverse buff too

Yeah i saw, read all about the IJN CA/DD changes. 

Just suspected concidering the opening post OP mistook Myogi for Myoko 

[ForlornSailor]

Some really welcomed information here.

- LoS-Radar failed: good. bad enough they concidered it. I was very vocal against it, since it screws with everything. DDs get screwed, consisteny gets screwed, teamplay gets screwed.

- CA/CL interaction and effectivness of HE: sounds promising. I think since Worcester its obvious, that some CLs are overperforming their supposed heavier counterparts.

 

5 hours ago, JimmyThePirate said:

To keep my response short and sweet, the Colorado goes 21 knots, the NC goes 27 knots... these guys are getting matched up against other BBs that regularly do 30 or more knots.

 

French BB-line screwed the balance finaly. btw: 27 knots on NC is fine - T5 to T7 speed of US BBs isnt. Or better: its rather the speed of things like Lyon and the other mid-tier-BBs, that isnt fine.

First, we get BBs that have concealment like cruiser - or even better - then BBs, that start to get equal in speed. Not cool.

 

PS: Buff US BBs? Dont forget ma Mighty Mo !

 

Spoiler

 

[Tyrendian89]

14 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

 

French BB-line screwed the balance finaly. btw: 27 knots on NC is fine - T5 to T7 speed of US BBs isnt. Or better: its rather the speed of things like Lyon and the other mid-tier-BBs, that isnt fine.

First, we get BBs that have concealment like cruiser - or even better - then BBs, that start to get equal in speed. Not cool.

 

 

you should take that up with the Warship designers from roundabout 80-100 years ago... not WG's fault the US Navy liked their Standard Type Battleships so much... and yes I realise this is a game, but that doesnt mean a fat tub like the Colorado suddenly becoming a speedboat wouldn't crash my suspension of disbelief. I like that WG have chosen ship speed as one of the areas where they (vaguely) stick to reality...

[ghostbuster_]

14 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

French BB-line screwed the balance finaly. btw: 27 knots on NC is fine - T5 to T7 speed of US BBs isnt. Or better: its rather the speed of things like Lyon and the other mid-tier-BBs, that isnt fine.

First, we get BBs that have concealment like cruiser - or even better - then BBs, that start to get equal in speed. Not cool.

 

 

well people has to adapt to play with low speed BBs. if you go to a flank with texas or NY for example, thats your mistake. its not the ship being bad because it has low speed. you have to pay attention to your positioning. you have to try staying central so you can reackt in time with your slow .ss BB. but i guess trying to think while playing was to difficult for playerbase once again... 

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, Tyrendian89 said:

you should take that up with the Warship designers from roundabout 80-100 years ago... not WG's fault the US Navy liked their Standard Type Battleships so much... and yes I realise this is a game, but that doesnt mean a fat tub like the Colorado suddenly becoming a speedboat wouldn't crash my suspension of disbelief. I like that WG have chosen ship speed as one of the areas where they (vaguely) stick to reality...

 

Lyon however didnt exist, so they could have just made it slower?

And as i stated earlier, i agree with you, and from a gamebalancing pov id go for speedboost. Technically they are still slow, but you can get into or out of the battle faster when necessary.

If those dreadnoughts could occasionally do 24~ kts it would be fine imo. We also have DDs now that move 55kts... while in reality Le terrible did 45 kts under trials. So i think Colorado moving 3 kts faster than IRL is much less irrational than DDs moving 55 kts

[wilkatis_LV]

US BBs:

Spoiler

• S.Cal - it's a t3, it's not supposed to be good. All I remember is her being better than Kawachi, and that's good enough
• Wyoming - does she really need a buff? Don't remember her being weak or anything
• NY - yeah, ok, easily the worst t5 BB, possibly even worst t5 ship. She needs something
• NewMex - but... she's fine already?
• Colorado - she already has been buffed a lot, isn't she fine already?
• NC - generally referred to as the best / one of the best t8 BBs. Why does she need a buff?
• Iowa - the only buff I can see making some "sense" would be upping her frontal armour up to the same level as Missouri has

 

IJN BBs:

Spoiler

Myogi - too long since I played her, can't really say. I've heard she's not the strongest ship there, so maybe

Izumo - but... it's already a strong ship. Why does it need a buff exactly?

 

KM BBs:

Spoiler

FDG - never played it, but yeah, I've heard it's a bit of a pile of . Guess we'll have to see...

 

6 hours ago, Saiyko said:

Buff hinden eh?... Can I make a suggestion? What about giving it a second faster reload?

 

Had a good laugh about this suggestion, 10/10