Good DD players - Asashio - yes or no?

[Pikkozoikum]

On 11/17/2018 at 4:25 PM, ShinGetsu said:

Look, you troll, the Asashio is nothing more than a FREAKING KAGERO with 20km DW. I don't need to play it to know, because unlike you, I'm a GOOD player.

So git gud and stop wasting people time with your useless "advice". Take real players advices instead, you need it.

And two consumables, also Asashio class is not a Kagero class

[Lootboxer]

2 godziny temu, Yaskaraxx napisał:

...still, doesn't that SHOW that "even the very worst WOWS-player in the known GALAXY"(= me, as stated) does actually very well with Asashio (VIII) playing it a 100% solo (I allways play SOLO, quite heroic!...aint it? lol) loosely creatively play-style (=NOT crampy/stressy-100%-team-up-allways-voice-chat-others-holding-your-hand-play-style! lol.) So, this actually proves Asashio = excellent ship?! ...gotta be...yeah?!...just doin some logically thinkin here for ya, so yeah, we agree, yeah? lol, CHEERS! (...again)

First of all you are not the very worst player, far from it, trust me, second: damage alone means nothing, only WR does, killing one DD for 20k is the same as one BB for 110k, and Asashio cannot kill many DDs, but is the best at killing BBs, so average damage is high. And your WR in Asashio is not better than in the other torpedo focused IJN DDs. It is OK, but the broken design and potato-friendly one trick pony. I do not play BBs much, and I like to have them in the enemy team, no danger and basically free frag when RLed. No good that she can make myBBs camp ever more sometimes.

[RAMJB]

4 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

...still, doesn't that SHOW that "even the very worst WOWS-player in the known GALAXY"(= me, as stated) does actually very well with Asashio (VIII) playing it a 100% solo (I allways play SOLO, quite heroic!...aint it? lol) loosely creatively play-style (=NOT crampy/stressy-100%-team-up-allways-voice-chat-others-holding-your-hand-play-style! lol.) So, this actually proves Asashio = excellent ship?! ...gotta be...yeah?!...just doin some logically thinkin here for ya, so yeah, we agree, yeah? lol, CHEERS! (...again)

 

 

Engrave this in your mind if  you want to be a good DD player:

Damage is NOT important. Kills are NOT important. What's important is that you keep the enemy DDs on the wrong footing, do succesful cap contesting. spot well for your team, and give smoke support to ships in trouble when (and if) you're in the position to do so.

You do that, chances are your team will win. (of course it's no guarantee because potatos gotta potato, today I smoked up a Worcester only for him to go past the smoke while still firing...and ofc it was sent into orbit by the focus fire he was being subjected to). Once that's done, sure, go hunting, kill stuff, farm damage. But that comes as a FAR second to the named roles.

Killing a BB has a quite low impact on the overall game. Capping and reducing the enemy DDs to useless tools is what matters. Once those there legs of the stool are covered, you can go for the fourth: damage and kills. Someone told you before and I concur - 20k damage can net you a DD kill, 90k damage can net you a BB kill. If I have to choose I want to score those 20k and get the DD out of play because DDs are game deciders - BBs not so much.

BTW both 20k and 90k will net you the same creds and xp ,because those are linked with how much damage % you do to a ship. It's as good for  your Xp and credits income to fully kill a DD than a same tier BB... and the enemy team will have a much harder time one DD down than one BB down.

So again, engrave this in your mind: Damage is NOT important ,and is the least important parameter to measure the importance and quality of a DD's job in a given battle.

Case in point, the best T8 DD atm is (by far and large) Kidd, imo, and that's a ship with which scoring over 40-50k is MUCH harder than in Asashio - but it does all the things I named (and then some) exceedingly well - it bullies even some T10 DDs out of caps, has impressive staying power, very good concealment, and american smokes. And most of the damage it deals is to enemy DDs, not to BBs that can both heal and aren't as important for the final win.

 

BTW against a Kidd an Asashio has nothing to do but run - and it can't really run from one, so...yeah.


 

[Lootboxer]

15 minut temu, RAMJB napisał:

 

 

Engrave this in your mind if  you want to be a good DD player:

Damage is NOT important. Kills are NOT important. What's important is that you keep the enemy DDs on the wrong footing, do succesful cap contesting. spot well for your team, and give smoke support to ships in trouble when (and if) you're in the position to do so.

You do that, chances are your team will win. (of course it's no guarantee because potatos gotta potato, today I smoked up a Worcester only for him to go past the smoke while still firing...and ofc it was sent into orbit by the focus fire he was being subjected to). Once that's done, sure, go hunting, kill stuff, farm damage. But that comes as a FAR second to the named roles.

Killing a BB has a quite low impact on the overall game. Capping and reducing the enemy DDs to useless tools is what matters. Once those there legs of the stool are covered, you can go for the fourth: damage and kills. Someone told you before and I concur - 20k damage can net you a DD kill, 90k damage can net you a BB kill. If I have to choose I want to score those 20k and get the DD out of play because DDs are game deciders - BBs not so much.

BTW both 20k and 90k will net you the same creds and xp ,because those are linked with how much damage % you do to a ship. It's as good for  your Xp and credits income to fully kill a DD than a same tier BB... and the enemy team will have a much harder time one DD down than one BB down.

So again, engrave this in your mind: Damage is NOT important ,and is the least important parameter to measure the importance and quality of a DD's job in a given battle.

Case in point, the best T8 DD atm is (by far and large) Kidd, imo, and that's a ship with which scoring over 40-50k is MUCH harder than in Asashio - but it does all the things I named (and then some) exceedingly well - it bullies even some T10 DDs out of caps, has impressive staying power, very good concealment, and american smokes. And most of the damage it deals is to enemy DDs, not to BBs that can both heal and aren't as important for the final win.

 

BTW against a Kidd an Asashio has nothing to do but run - and it can't really run from one, so...yeah.


 

And on the top Kidd has a very very good AA for a DD plus heal so it can be still played with a relative safety net in CV games. All with just one torpedo launcher and surprise, surprise no TRB!

[ShinGetsu]

Lo Yang, Kidd, Lightning and Harekaze are the best tier 8 DD due to their versatility and overall impact on the match. 

[_DeathWing_]

6 hours ago, DariusJacek said:

Does it? In only meaningful stats- WR Shima is better for you. And Kagero spanks all over both. All are not impressive for a start.

Ahahahahaha, good one. Made my day. 

 

5 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

Your WR shows pretty evidently you have absolutely no idea of what you're doing.

Spare us your advice please. We don't need it. It's you that need to get better, not us.

Just stop feeding him pls. He knows he's shite and we all know that as well. No one is taking his advice/suggestions.

[Yaskaraxx]

1 hour ago, RAMJB said:

 

 

Engrave this in your mind..............................etc.

So again, engrave this in your mind...................etc.


 

??????....amazing! If it were up to me I would phrase it a bit more nicely/kindly as: "Maybe consider to bear in mind the following"....etc... i mean, addressing a Dutch the way you do, nahh, THAT doesn't work out that way(!), nahh. (dwells my mind to the Borg-collective or so...nahh...better stop that...lol, bit silly...maybe you intended to be funny? Well, in that case OK....)

 

If you realy would know yr ships then you would know ya can't compare Kid (VIII) that way with Asashio (totally different):

Kid (VIII) can only be as effective as Aasashio (VIII) WHEN Kid is played teamed-up + voice-chat + (preferably) same Clan-members. I can only advise players to team-up (THAT is the way to do it, generally speaking AND THAT will bring you the best stats results, with any ship, for sure, teaming-up = best way, fully agree, so, do so.

 

I myself however play preferably SOLO-way (is more difficult to get results, for sure, one has to be somewhat more tricky & ya need somewhat more RL-skills to do so succesfully). Why do I choose solo-way? Well, there is ONLY one reason for that: it's faster (don't have to wait till some clan-member or so is ready online) AND I am more free to play more loosely/creatively (the way I like it), in short: i just hop in ANY ship I like at some point in time (doesn't even matter to me if it is the statistically proven to be very best one, I simply pick the one I like the most at that specific moment in time & play = fun).

 

Doing well in Asashio (VIII) is by no means easy: BB's are far away & allways heavily shielded by many strong cruisers + strong DD's...so...first thing you have to do is scoutings in and around caps luring enemy dd's out (& enemy cruisers), detecting them, so yr teammates can take em out----> makes free yr way closing in on enemey BB's. Tricky...very tricky...since most of times all enemy ships T10 or T9 and ALL can take ya out "in the blinck of an eye"...so...play it both strategically & tactically sound...do plannings...& keep close eye on mini-map. You have 5.4 km range detect and Radio- Location as 4-points capt skill is of vital importance.

 

A lot of what you mentioned in yr above posting I REALY do NOT RECOGNIZE when I play my Asashio (VIII): see my earlier posting (= my todays 4 battles with Asashio, facts, you can verify) and my Asashio ends 1st/2nd/3rd/4th-place score-list most of the time, generally speaking...that is: leaving behind almost all other dd's (which do less XP!) And this includes Kidd (VIII), sofar I never saw in my own battles any Kidd (VIII) ending higher place (scorelist shown after battle) than my Asashio. Big difference between Kidd & Asashio is: Asashio CAN be well played both solo AND teamed-up while Kidd realy NEEDS being teamed-up....otherwise...nahhh...better not...so TEAM-UP

 

Contrary to what yr stating: my Asashio DOES cappings (on regular basis) AND DOES take out enemy DD's (also, regularly basis, at the right moments) + does shootings at cruisers (out of smoke, fire-settings etc.) + due to low detect plays an important role for the team: scouting + smoking them up (...again, Asashio has to play it that way since enemy dd's + cruisers shielding-off the far away enemy BB's HAVE to be taken out before you can close in bit more on enemy BB's...kind of WIN-WIN-SITUATION for both yr Asashio and yr team!

 

So, I realy cannot place the contents of yr above posting...you make it seem to be all so easy(????) lollol...simplifying it all...so I kind of wondering now: did you yourself actually ever play any battles with an Asashio???

[RAMJB]

I play 100% solo.  Kidd doesn't need any kind of voice comms/divisioning/whatever to be the best T8 DD, and without question a much better destroyer than Asashio (which, on it's own, is a pretty poor DD for the many reasons stated several times over in this thread).

That you end up in the scoreboard doesn't mean squat about how well you did your role. The way the game rewards are poorly designed to reward really effective gameplay, and probably the most skewed class in that sense is the DDs.

Case in point - let's say that I'm near a Cleveland. I see he's under serious focus fire and probably will be destroyed by the enemy. I can do the following

- I move in and I smoke him. He goes "dark" and unspotted for the enemy and can keep on firing his guns while unspotted, doing a lot of damage to the enemy and surviving.

- I don't give a damn, I smoke up to cover myself, and begin firing my (far less effective than his) guns while he dies under the focus fire he's been subjected to.


The first scenario means a cleveland surviving and far more damage done to the enemy. Second scenario means a cleveland dead and far less damage done to the enemy ....

 

But I'll get more Xp if I do the 2nd (because whatever less damage I do with my guns than what the cleveland would've done from smoke while surviving goes to my personal damage tally), even while what I've done is a MASSIVE net loss for my team, and a tremendous overall reduction of our chances to win. Bassically I'm rewarded for being a bad player.

So I get rewarded if I play like $hit, I don't if I play well (if I smoke the cleveland I get no xp nor reward for it). And that is true for most of the DD playstyle. Most of what they are supposed to do goes unrewarded while most of what's not really critical (such as dealing raw damage, which is not their business to begin with) is rewarded.

I've lost count of how many times I've seen absolute disasters of DD players scoring high on the tables just because they were torping stuff all game long from completely pointless positions, without giving a damn about caps, giving a damn about spotting enemy DDs, nor giving a damn about teamplay, winning the battle, or doing anything other than laying torpedoes on the water.

Those DDs were still DISASTEROUS players because whatever they did, was useless in the scope of the battle and in many cases were pivotal in their team losing the battle...yet they manage to score high in their team's results.
 

So you can come here and brandish a lot of "I've been 1st,2nd,3rd of my team...whatever whatever" or "my average damage is...whatever whatever". It's meaningless. What it matters is your win ratio, not your average damage, in all classes - but SPECIALLY, in DDs.

Until you get rid of that selfish mentality that seems focused around the idea that in order for a DD to be good you have to be able to deal damage with it, period, you won't become a better DD player. And seeing your stats in destroyers you could do with improving (no intent of shaming here, just telling you an objective truth), but you won't if you insist that, whatever advice you receive from other players who're obviously better in those ships than what you are, is nothing but BS you shouldn't take seriously.

 

BTW "your asashio does capping". So does my Kiev. Doesn't mean my Kiev is any good as a cap contester. It's an AWFUL cap contester. I can't get into a cap without being focus fired by half the enemy team without even seeing the dude who's spotting me. So I don't do that. I play second line to another DD that goes in first and failing that, I'll just play "picket" while roaming at high speed and dogding shells. But capping is out of the question. I'll do capping later on when the situation arises that allows me to do so. But initially? nope, because it's a death wish.

Likewise, Asashio is an AWFUL cap contester, just because of the polar opposite than that of Kiev - it's stealthy but not THAT stealthy (100m vs a Lightning, 400 vs a Benson or Kidd, just to name two). You'll spot them a couple seconds before they spot you ,but once you're spotted you can't cap anymore - you just have to run away and you can't even try to torp the enemy DDs that will just sit on the cap and laugh while you run tails between legs, because your torps are useless against them. You're forced to give up the cap IMMEDIATELY, because, if you don't run away from it, you're dead.

that's not "contesting caps", that's just not giving them away for free. To contest a cap you must have a boat that allows you to actually put up a fight. Asashio can NOT win a cap fight and will NOT win a cap fight because it has neither the gunpower nor the torpedoes to do so. The second it's spotted (and it doesn't take much to spot one when trying to cap), it's either run or die. So much for capping.

Up to you now to realize that if people with WRs 10% over yours in the DD class are telling you something they must be right, and you be wrong, or to keep on your self-created bubble where stuff works the way you say so because you say so, and still be stuck with under 50% Win rates in the class you seem to enjoy the most.

[Pikkozoikum]

There are many good destroyers on T8. Asashio is one of them

[Yaskaraxx]

50 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Lo Yang, Kidd, Lightning and Harekaze are the best tier 8 DD due to their versatility and overall impact on the match. 

...those ships are ok! yes, ON THAT we agree...BUT still in my own battles my Asashio (VIII) leaves them behind on score-list shown after battle: Asashio generally speaking does better /more XP and ends higher place (1st/2nd/3rd/4th place are quite normal for Asashio). Furthermore: high XP means: not only doing higher damage on several ships BUT also being active doing lots of other stuff (...cappings, scoutings, hunting low health enemy dd's (=flushing them out in the open), smoking-up teammembers, taking out enemy dd's and even do shootings at enemy cruisers out of smoke, contesting caps, etc.)...so, again, why not play say some 10 battles yourself with Asashio (VIII)...trust me, ya will like & enjoy every single battle with it. THAT would be yr very eye-opener, so to speak. This comment is kindly, objectively & realy nicely meant, I sincerely mean it, ya will realy like Asashio (VIII)...= real challenging entertaining ship that requires a good rl insight in both strategics + tactics (...actually, it is kind of playing chess, yeah, comes close, kind of imo)

[Yaskaraxx]

58 minutes ago, _DeathWing_ said:

Ahahahahaha, good one. Made my day. 

 

hi!, ohh yes, that one, yeah indeed funny: Kagero (VIII) must have been some 1,5 year ago played it last, lol. Shin wouldn't  dare to show my recent stats as solo-player and say Henri, or Massa or Nelson etc....no, Singethsu always goes for some ancient biassed history stuff ta make her point, lol...have np with that as long as people having good time, (I am!) cheers!

[RAMJB]

I'll try to put this in a picture so let's see if I get the point across this way.

See this harugumo?. lost battle, yet he has 1350-ish points. Probably he scored 150k+ damage by farming BBs, and he even had a kill.

He was an utter complete disgrace and a disaster. Never came even 2 sectors close to a cap, all he did was sit from the backline in smoke and fire away (even leeching smokes from other DDs, neither of which, btw, were any good either as 2 of them died like idiots at gamestart, the kagero died...firing to a Moskva when sitting on smoke...).


Still you can see that it came down to who had capped, because killwise we were tied, and actually, we had 2 relatively healthy BBs by the game ending. Had that Harugumo done his job contesting caps and trying to spot their DDs, we'd have won this with ease (even with our other DDs being absolute trash).

 

Meanwhile the two enemy surviving DDs rip us open a new one by capping and spotting. Both have a kill but probably none of them scored more than 80k damage with those XP rewards. Our BBs were handcuffed because their DDs were constantly unspotted. I personally died trying to sweep one of them with hydro in utter desperation because the harugumo wouldn't get out of his god-damned smoke and do anything useful. Hydro ran out, and I found myself cross-torped from 2 directions. No way out.


Who did his job as a DD?

Who didn't?

 

Who costed us the battle for not doing his job as a DD?.

yet...who's second in our team's XP list?. Who got a crapload of damage score?.

yet that idiot lost us the battle.

 

I can state it louder, but I can't make it clearer.

 

[Lootboxer]

6 minut temu, Yaskaraxx napisał:

hi!, ohh yes, that one, yeah indeed funny: Kagero (VIII) must have been some 1,5 year ago played it last, lol. Shin wouldn't  dare to show my recent stats as solo-player and say Henri, or Massa or Nelson etc....no, Singethsu always goes for some ancient biassed history stuff ta make her point, lol...have np with that as long as people having good time, (I am!) cheers!

Logically nowadays you should perform much better in Asashio than a long time ago in Kagero. So you are basically saying that you did not improve at all from 1.5 years ago and just become a worse player? Or you failed to adapt to more radar maybe? Asashio is a new ship and is still worse in WR then you had been over 1.5 years ago in poor Kagero. Just curious.

BTW: Henry Massa or Nelson - not a T8 DDs. Stats I posted are not about you (you could do better though for a player with over 15k battles) but about how these similar ships are performing relative to each other for you.  Performing in WR, not meaningless damage farming.

You are right in one thing, as long as you are having a good time there is no problem. That is the most important in this game. After all, that is why we are playing. For fun. Unless we are a few of top CCs and are getting paid for our efforts GL & HF!

[Lootboxer]

8 minut temu, RAMJB napisał:

I'll try to put this in a picture so let's see if I get the point across this way.

See this harugumo?. lost battle, yet he has 1350-ish points. Probably he scored 150k+ damage by farming BBs, and he even had a kill.

He was an utter complete disgrace and a disaster. Never came even 2 sectors close to a cap, all he did was sit from the backline in smoke and fire away (even leeching smokes from other DDs, neither of which, btw, were any good either as 2 of them died like idiots at gamestart, the kagero died...firing to a Moskva when sitting on smoke...).


Still you can see that it came down to who had capped, because killwise we were tied, and actually, we had 2 relatively healthy BBs by the game ending. Had that Harugumo done his job, we'd have won this (even with our other DDs being absolute trash).

 

Meanwhile the two enemy surviving DDs rip us open a new one by capping and spotting. Both have a kill but probably none of them scored more than 80k damage with those XP rewards. Our BBs were handcuffed because their DDs were constantly unspotted. I personally died trying to sweep one of them with hydro in utter desperation because the harugumo wouldn't get out of his god-damned smoke and do anything useful. Hydro ran out, and I found myself cross-torped from 2 directions. No way out.


Who did his job as a DD?

Who didn't?

 

Who costed us the battle for not doing his job as a DD?.

yet...who's second in our team's XP list?. Who got a crapload of damage score?.

yet that idiot lost us the battle.

 

I can state it louder, but I can't make it clearer.

 

Haragumo without CE with IFHE and AFT has very poor concealment, even with CE she sucks, trying to outspot DDs or cap early usually ends in the port quickly under focus fire and torpedo soup. It is broken as much as Asashio is just in a different way and it is OP at the same time against all classes. It is a bit like Ru DDs when buid for range, not CE. Strange boat. Fun still. I prefer Kitakaze, it is a much better DD even if still clumsy.

[RAMJB]

4 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

Haragumo in randoms without CE with IFHE and AFT is an absolute epic fail

 

Corrected it for you ;).

 

At any rate I'm not sure what build was he running on, all I know is that he did everything but what a DD is supposed to do. I'm not talking "capping early", Haru is not great at it (far better than asashio tho XD). but one thing is not rushing into a cap at game start, a completely different one is never advancing further than the spawn line.

Also note that one of the enemy DDs making our life hell was an Udaloi. That's not exactly a stealthy bote, and he did indeed cap, spot, and in general do stuff he was supposed to do, not just firing from smoke 24/7.

[Yaskaraxx]

1 hour ago, RAMJB said:

....

yeah, I read it, still my opinion is realy different from yours. Can an Asahio (VIII) contest caps???...fcaus it CAN and it does. Look, this is team-play (12-vs 12) so, Asashio going in contesting a cap with some 5.4 detection "flushing out in the open easily" say, some enemy Kiev (VIII) which yr teammembers take out right away (or at least totally ruin)...so, having some teammember cruiser(s) withing shooting range, yeah, THEN Asashio goes in for the cap, succesfully contesting it, np

 

...and there are lots of other things ya state i honestly do not agree with. BUT then again: that is not a problem, we are allowed ta have our own opinions and yeah, we can exchange our different thoughts, that's OK. Still, must say: I played both Asashio + Kidd...so maybe ya overlooked my kind question re my comment #82:

 

>>>>>>...so I kind of wondering now: did you yourself actually ever play any battles with an Asashio???<<<<<

 

(trust me, there is big difference between "talking about some ship AND actually having played over 130 battles with that ship,...& then again, maybe you played Asashio? Anyway, nice to hear you like playing the Kiev (VIII) & yes that's an OK ship)

[Lootboxer]

Haru can be pain but it depends on team composition, with 4 normal DDs having such a beast as a fire support is nice. Nicer than CA behind the island landscaping terrain. 

[RAMJB]

37 minutes ago, Yaskaraxx said:

yeah, I read it, still my opinion is realy different from yours.

2

 

Your opinion is that of a 45% WR destroyer player.

Mine is that of an almost 57% WR destroyer player

 

Your opinion is wrong.

 

 

If my opinion was the one wrong, you'd be the one with the 57% WR and I'd be the one with 45% WR. 

 

But as it seems that applying what I'm stating here is giving me a 12% higher win rate than yours, while you, applying what you're stating is giving you a 12% lower WR than mine, anyone with a sensible mind would conclude what I already said:

Your opinion is wrong.

Can an Asahio (VIII) contest caps???...fcaus it CAN and it does.

 

An asashio can enter a cap. It can NOT contest said cap. The second it's spotted it has to leave the cap AT ONCE, or die.

 

That's not "being able to contest caps". Contesting caps doesn't mean "entering a cap and then getting the hell out of it as soon as spotted". Contesting caps means FIGHTING for the caps.
 

 

Look, this is team-play (12-vs 12) so, Asashio going in contesting a cap with some 5.4 detection "flushing out in the open easily"

 

5.4km detection means bonkers. That's merely a couple seconds against a Lightning heading your direction at full speed, just a bit more vs Benson or a Hsienyang. Loyang directly laughs (his hydro has 300m longer range than your concealment) and even the worst concealment T8 DDs bar the Kiev and that stupid french abomination will only take a mere few seconds more to see you. Those seconds won't make a real difference.

In practice those 5.4km concealment are virtually useless for cap contesting purposes. You'll see them a few seconds before they see you, but that's it, they'll eventually detect you. And once you're detected you MUST run. And you can't even leave behind some torps to see if you connect with some on the DD that just forced you to run like hell (something Kagero can do)

 

say, some enemy Kiev (VIII) which yr teammembers take out right away (or at least totally ruin)...so, having some teammember cruiser(s) withing shooting range, yeah, THEN Asashio goes in for the cap, succesfully contesting it, np

 

 

Because the dude who's coming for you has no cruisers behind him, I guess?. Do you think the only dude whos gonna shoot you once spotted (and you WILL get spotted mere seconds after spotting whoever was coming into the cap you're "contesting") is the dude you spot?.

BTW if you think your teammates can take out "right away" (or "ruin") a kiev zipping by at full speed you're sorely, sorely, and awfully mistaken. It's exceedingly hard to hit a 48knot speedster doing avoidance unless you're pretty much on top of him, and your cruisers won't be that close.

Besides, the Kiev will be doing exactly that and for that purpose, to attract fire and light up all nearby cruisers for his own team to fire on them - he's not actually fighting for the cap. The same as you aren't (because you're also going to run like hell, just a lot slower than him, the second  you're spotted)

 

 

>>>>>>...so I kind of wondering now: did you yourself actually ever play any battles with an Asashio???<<<<<

Let's put it this way, I've played Kagero - which is a MUCH better contester than Asashio (because, you know, it has torps that can kill everything, and not those unidimensional BB-restricted nukes). And that one also SUCKS as a contester because it's forced to flee the second it's spotted. Just like Asashio is.

but at least Kagero can try to hit back with torps when fleeing a cap. Asashio can not. Hence, even Kagero is better for that role.


Said in other words, no, I won't pay 40 bucks for a shitty unidimensional destroyer that's actually pretty bad at the roles a DD is supposed to do.  But I've played ships that play exactly the same as Asashio does (except for the fact that those ships aren't restricted to targetting BBs with their torps), namely, Kagero or Shiratsuyu (and all the previous ships, of course) and those are awful cap contesters aswell. Just not as bad as Asashio is..
 

 

 

(trust me, there is big difference between "talking about some ship AND actually having played over 130 battles with that ship,...& then again, maybe you played Asashio? Anyway, nice to hear you like playing the Kiev (VIII) & yes that's an OK ship)

.

 

There's no such difference when it comes down to recognizing the strenghts and weaknesses of a given ship. I haven't played british BBs over QE, for instance, that doesn't stop me from recognizing what they're good for and what they're not so good for and to get a valid qualitative assessment of their worth in a battle. 

Likewise I haven't played the Le Terrible, and I don't need to to recognize it as an absolutely worthless ship.

 

Me having played the Asashio, or not, is irrelevant. I have played DDs extensively (Own Gearing, Kidd, Gadja Mada, Loyang, Kiev, Ognevoi, Lightning, Z-46, Kagero, Shiratsuyu, amongst many others), I'm pretty decent at it (as my WR and stats prove), and I know the playstyle well enough to recognize when a DD is good for DD roles, and when it's utter trash. 

Asashio isn't utter trash level for T8 (that'd be the Le Terrible), but is bad for destroyer duties. Like, REALLY bad. Completely unidimensional and sorely lacking in roles DDs are supposed to do that almost every other T8 destroyer does better.

[Yaskaraxx]

re #93: about Le Terrible (VIII), dunno, haven't played it, have no opinion about it: seems some indications are not optimal at present (sofar ship was played 14.606 battles, average dmg 29.184, average XP 1.315 & there are some YT vids about it, watched the one Notser made.

 

fyi: there is a site "wows-numbers.com/ships/" showing all ships & performance uptill present day (that's the one i use to get some rough first impressions)

[Yaskaraxx]

On 11/11/2018 at 11:56 PM, Riselotte said:

A monkey who got half their brain removed could play this ship and would do better than in any other DD

...still, highly interesting & entertaining, must say!!!!: ....I mean.... picture that monkey-capt yr describing having say some IQ 30 blasting out of the water a full health Montana (X) sailed by an IQ 160 captain? ...i mean...picture THAT ONE!!!!....ohhh man....that's REALY FUN!!!

 

[Quetak]

NO

In Asashio you cannot turn battles like with most of ships. Dont play her much, but from few battles I had with her 2-3 ended when I was only one from our team left. In such situation when you are facing any combination of CAs/DDs you cant do nothing. Like realy nothing, just sail to corner and wait for game end. You cant torp cruisers, you cant gun them down and same apply to DDs, you cant torp them and you cant gun them if you dont have good HP advantage. 

In some games it can be fun ship to play, but it will never be carry ship like most DDs can be. Its very team dependent, if your team doesnt support you on caps you cant cap, you cant help yourself against enemy DDs. 

Actualy I wish I never bought her, just lost money for me.  

 

[Yaskaraxx]

48 minutes ago, Quetak said:

NO

In Asashio you cannot turn battles like with most of ships. Dont play her much, but from few battles I had with her 2-3 ended when I was only one from our team left. In such situation when you are facing any combination of CAs/DDs you cant do nothing. Like realy nothing, just sail to corner and wait for game end. You cant torp cruisers, you cant gun them down and same apply to DDs, you cant torp them and you cant gun them if you dont have good HP advantage. 

In some games it can be fun ship to play, but it will never be carry ship like most DDs can be. Its very team dependent, if your team doesnt support you on caps you cant cap, you cant help yourself against enemy DDs. 

Actualy I wish I never bought her, just lost money for me.  

 

...come on, FOR SURE Asashio CAN decide the game last stage (not always, depends on specific circumstances at hand in that specific battle...i mean....litterally countless/unlimited different cicumstances possible, depends...each battle is different from the one ya played before!)...I mean...Asashio (VIII) 19-pointer + Upgrade Engine Boost Mod1 + consumable engine boost + flag (not even realy needed, but having it = nice extra)...i mean...such a ship is kind of realy fast and say last stage of battle 1 vs 1 say (for instance) a cruiser...caps A+B+C....Asa winning...too fast!!! ...i mean switching fastly between ALL caps....& the WHALE following???...lol...come on Asashio has 4-points skill Radio Location!!)...guess what happens??? Besides that: in battles when I myself play a BB and Asashio's in battle, generally speaking I see them doing REAL OK on score-list shown after battles! See my comment #94: mentioned a site there: Asashio clearly being the very best T8 performing destroyer according stats for TOTAL players-base + ALL battles played sofar...this tells someting, imo

 

(.....NB...yeah Riselotte...such great performaces can ONLY be accomplished by "Monkey-captains-which-havin-removed-half-their -brains"...yeah, lol...many of em out there AND they are doing real great(!!!) with Asashio: brings them much credits...but then again...maybe give Asashio-players a choice after battles between "getting Bananas OR Credits" as being the rewards for their great battle-performances??...dunno...just a thought....dunno....maybe?)

[Yaskaraxx]

On 11/17/2018 at 4:25 PM, ShinGetsu said:

Look, you troll, the Asashio is nothing more than a FREAKING KAGERO with 20km DW. I don't need to play it to know, because unlike you, I'm a GOOD player.

So git gud and stop wasting people time with your useless "advice". Take real players advices instead, you need it.

...lets take an up-to-date look at FACTS now: according site "wows-numbers.com/ships/ (showing ALL battles played sofar and the performance of TOTAL playerbase):

 

Asashio (VIII)

Battles played = 274.856

WR 52,23%

AVG Damage: 54.359

AVG XP: 1.486 (!!!)

 

Kagero (VIII)

Battles played: 3.333.480

WR: 49,76%

AVG Damage: 29.120

AVG XP: 1.200

 

It shows: Asashio (VIII) is 2nd BEST performing T8 destroyer; only Lighting (VIII) proves to perform slightly better (= great ship BUT does NOT make credits like Asashio)

 

Asashio has relatively high XP and XP is a real good indicator of all the various kind of performances/actions Asashio CAN (and does!) take care of, succesfully. Asashio doesn't mind being up-tiered since Asashio outperforms even lots of T9 + T10 destroyers (=facts) and anyway, Asashio = a range-torp-launcher. So, yeah, objectively Asashio (VIII) realy is a very good ship, no doubt about that.

 

I was posting here some postings on topic re Asashio meant for my fellow players!!!! (=NOT MEANT FOR YOU!!!!, since yr only a forum handler having some 15 different aka's here on forums, and you don't even realy play the ships!!!!); thing is I play 3 different BIG online games (which I ALL like, still WoWS = my very  #1 online game for over two years already).

 

So, who do you think you are fooling here??? Your supposedly "expert views" are NOT valued in any way by me (this is based on plain facts).

 

So, if ya see REAL PLAYERS(!!) on forums exchanging their thoughts on forums PLEASE stay out of it (...since WE are the PLAYERS!...and you are just a proven  highly subjective forum handler with 15 different aka's!), since you never ever "positively contribute" to any FACT-BASED evaluation, exchange of thoughts between real player base members.

 

Look, I am a paying member-player here for over 2 years already & I much like playing this great game! STILL, if you KEEP HARASSING ME (or any others of the  real-member-players-base) I would  feel it to become realy necessary to post a TICKET to WG complaining about specifically YOUR destructive actions on Forums!

 

 

 

 

[Altsak]

On 11/19/2018 at 3:19 AM, RAMJB said:

An asashio can enter a cap. It can NOT contest said cap.

 

Actually with 5.4km concealment you dictate the fight in a cap. You can control your distance to radars and keep unspotted. Team is there to kill and scare the DDs you spot for them. That way an Asashio can contest caps. I know, I do it all the time, even at randoms. No team support behind your cap? You mispositioned. A Z-52 enters your cap? You run, but you'd do with any DD.

 

Asashio has tools to contest and win caps. They're just different than what a Gearing or a radar Yueyang has. You adapt and you win.

 

Ps. you should try both Harugumo and Asashio to see how they operate around caps. They maybe DDs by name but they both play differently. And no, a Harugumo can not scare a properly played Asashio out of a cap unless the Harugumo is willing to lose all of its health. Trust me, I know.

[RAMJB]

I'm sorry but no. Against a lightning you have maybe 2 seconds. Against a Jutland, maybe 5. Against a 5.8km concealment you have maybe 6-7 seconds. 6km-ish might take longer but still not enough to make a difference.

Mere fact is that in a cap you're going to either meet the enemy head on (closure rate is even bigger), or side on (closure rate is the incoming ship's speed). You literally won't have time to enter a cap, do a whole circle around and point away before an enemy DD is on you in most maps. And even if you circle around you'll have to stop if you want to keep contesting the cap and not exit it. You don't control the range, unless youre running AWAY from the cap, at which point you're not contesting it anymore. Either you run from the cap and not contest it, or you stay in. And if you stay in with  your bow pointed away from the cap, again, closure rate is the incoming ship's speed.

Asashio's only "tool" to contest and win caps it's is stealth. Nothing else. There's even an identical stealth DD at her tier (kagero) which already has more (torps), and the rest have way beyond that. The only DDs that have less arguments to be a cap contester at T8 are Kiev, a ship nobody contests in for good reason, and Le Terrible, a ship that objectively nobody should play.

To say that such a ship is a "good contester" is ludicrous. It's awful at it. It's literal tools are to sit, wait, and begin running the second it's spotted (which eventually will be). That's NOT contesting caps, I said it before, repeat it again.


As for "team is there to kill". In the handful of seconds of advantage you have, if any (if the other contester is a kagero, then what?), your team has barely time to point their guns at the incoming DD ,which, at this stage, should already being doing the shaky dance to avoid possible incoming, while moving towards the suspected spotter position. And for the record, the dude coming for you will also have a "team that's there to kill" behind him. Works both ways.

 

Literally the only situation where your argument works is that there's a minotaur sitting 4km behind the Asashio. But then again, maybe there's a minotaur sitting 4km behind the incoming DD. THAT is a big nono that will force whatever DD is in play to turn tails and run like hell. But he'll be running from the mino, not from the asashio, and any DD with that backup would achieve exactly the same, so it's not really any credit for the DD. Besides Kagero could do that too, and still have useful torps. But more on that later..

the rest of the time? half a dozen seconds between spot times won't make a difference - one DD has to IMMEDIATELY evacuate the cap or be mauled, and that one will be Asashio.


as for Harugumo, yeah, it's a DD that's not a DD yet it still is a DD. initial rush contesting is not a real option for them and for good reasons - it's a destroyer that everyone agrees on one point: it's awful at what a DD is supposed  to do but more than compensates it by vomiting an ungodly IFHE HE DPM that will blast even battleships, let alone cruisers and destroyers.

Asashio is a destroyer that it's awful at what a DD is supposed to do and it's only benefit is that it can kill BBs with torps. WTF. Any other DD can do that, and also kill cruisers, and (unless DWTs) destroyers. Heck, even Kagero is better at contesting (is also bad, but at least it **IS** better than Asashio).

The whole point of the argument going in this thread is wether asashio is a good DD or not. The point most of us have brought here is that it can be a fun ship to play and get large damage numbers (from BBs almost exclusively) to the table, but that, as a DD supposed to take on and accomplish DD roles, it's a complete waste of a vital spot for the team. That harugumo is another instance of such a DD doesn't make Asashio any less bad.