Good DD players - Asashio - yes or no?

[Pikkozoikum]

4 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Which he will then dodge by just pushing either WASD key once,

The rudder will be at 1/3, when the torp hits, if not even less. There is not much time for maneuvers.

[MRGTB]

They don't call it the NINJA for nothing... why do think I bought the Asashio B (black version)

[Pikkozoikum]

2 minutes ago, allufewig said:

 

Suuuuuuuure, Asashio has +50% average damage to the next best ship just because its playerbase is much more experienced. 

 

It has NOTHING to do with Asashios torpedoes being the overall more effective weapon versus oblivious BBs. Nononono. 

 

Youre always a show man. 

Nah, it's because of all the potatoes, of course :)

[El2aZeR]

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The rudder will be at 1/3, when the torp hits, if not even less. There is not much time for maneuvers.

 

Does he need to press a key when he just sees the torps? He can be pressing either for any number of reasons. He wants to stop and camp bow on, he wants to turn because he is avoiding an obstacle, he may want to get his rear guns into action etc. etc. etc. A target that is sailing straight for long enough for a torpedo to hit at 16km+ is incredibly rare even when it is captained by a complete potato.

 

8 minutes ago, allufewig said:

It has NOTHING to do with Asashios torpedoes being the overall more effective weapon versus oblivious BBs. Nononono. 

 

It plays a part certainly, but if that were the only cause then the Fletcher must be a horrible torp boat.

[MRGTB]

30 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Also most BBs have better concealment than 16km, which means you will ALSO inevitably flash up to him if he is in stealth unless you like to torp blind which has a marginal chance of success at best. Aka Asashio isn't any better at this than any other DD.

 

You are even ignoring basic game mechanics at this point to create an argument. You must really be grasping at straws. Remember what I said about  DD players and Asashio? Think about that for a moment.

A typical start I'll do in a match with the Asashio is head towards a cap and when near it turn and let 16 torps go with no BB (or other enemy ships) in view yet - the torps heading in the direction of going straight through the cap where BB's might come from other side of it.  Keep in mind there, I said with no BB in sight, so if a BB wonders into the torps path ( and I have not even spotted him yet) do you think he has any idea they are coming his way?

[El2aZeR]

1 minute ago, MRGTB said:

A typical start I'll do in a mtch with the Asashio is head towards a cap and and when near it turn and let 16 torps go with no BB in view in the direction of going through the cap heading where BB's might come from.

 

And I usually fire my torps at typical spots a DD may take in a cap. Sometimes I find success with that, more often than not I don't. Such a play is situational and as such not really a strength. In fact because DDs and cruisers will usually wander those paths first chances are they'll get spotted before even reaching the BBs.

If that is all the Asashio has over other DDs then it is even worse off than previously thought.

 

Tell me, how often do you hit nothing or deal completely inconsequential damage and are now waiting on BOTH your torp reload and your TRB?

[Pikkozoikum]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Does he need to press a key when he just sees the torps? He can be pressing either for any number of reasons. He wants to stop and camp bow on, he wants to turn because he is avoiding an obstacle, he may want to get his rear guns into action etc. etc. etc. A target that is sailing straight for long enough for a torpedo to hit at 16km+ is incredibly rare even when it is captained by a complete potato.

 

 

It plays a part certainly, but if that were the only cause then the Fletcher must be a horrible torp boat.

My torps don't run further than 16 km

 

Guess Fletcher is average to good, while I would consider Asashio as good. For my personal taste very good. Fletcher is not le terrible

[MRGTB]

Honestly, you would be surprised how often those torps can hit a BB if you know where the BB's tend to come from towards a certain cap. And using a wide spread as well, that you might think is bad at range - but tends to actually hit a BB with blind long shots more often than using closed group torps option. Guess because they cover a bigger area and even allows for ships to change direction while heading their way to still get a chance hit with one.

 

Of course it's still down to luck to get a hit, but seems to luck out better using wide spread torps doing blind shots going full range. Does for me anyhow. I don't shoot close grouped torps with Asashio at a target, even when spotted and aimed his way, not if he's more than 14k away. I know the chances are he will change direction before the torps get anywhere near him, for one reason or another he'll most likely change his direction.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Vor 2 Minuten, El2aZeR sagte:

Tell me, how often do you hit nothing or deal completely inconsequential damage and are now waiting on BOTH your torp reload and your TRB?

Not as often as you think. But in these times you still got smoke + great guns and the best stealth to just spot enemies.

Honestly, you are making the Asashio far worse than she actually is.

The guns can keep up with all other T8 DDs (and lower) with similar stealth while things like Kiev can just be permanently spotted. The torpedos are extremely strong. Especially at stacking perma floodings with TRB.

Yes, you can't do that much against cruisers if you are alone, but seriously, this is a team game and the situations where you actually have to go 1on1 with a cruiser are extremely rare. And in all other situations smoke+guns can hurt cruisers quite good as well.

 

In my opinion the Asashio can be one of the most influential DDs in the current Random Meta. If specced and played correctly of course.

[MRGTB]

24 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

And in all other situations smoke+guns can hurt cruisers quite good as well.

90 seconds smoke duration on the ship if I'm correct. I go against the norm and use BAF and AFT on the Asashio. It speeds up reload and extends the main battery range. Means I can sit in smoke from 13.3k (I think it is, don't have game loaded right now to check) for 90 seconds and spam Cruisers with HE after spotted with team behind me shooting as well. 13k is a pretty good safe distance to be in 90 seconds of smoke dishing out some damage to a Cruiser (and with a faster reload now).

 

So it isn't useless at everything else, bar killing BB's. Not if you install the right skills to actually better the guns and range you can shoot at so it can do a bit more than just use it's torps. Funny enough, I did the same 2 skills on the Lightening DD and it can reach 14.7k on it's main guns then.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 hour ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

In my opinion the Asashio can be one of the most influential DDs in the current Random Meta. If specced and played correctly of course.

You mean as long as there's plenty of people who can't figure out how to react to the presence of an Asashio in battle and few can be bothered to coordinate? Because apart from being basically a potato harvesting device, I'd still call it unreliable if it utterly falls apart as soon as my enemy has some brain.

 

Also, please think about how your posts embolden people who think this is a legit approach:

1 hour ago, MRGTB said:

90 seconds smoke duration on the ship if I'm correct. I go against the norm and use BAF and AFT on the Asashio. It speeds up reload and extends the main battery range. Means I can sit in smoke from 13.3k (I think it is, don't have game loaded right now to check) for 90 seconds and spam Cruisers with HE after spotted with team behind me shooting as well. 13k is a pretty good safe distance to be in 90 seconds of smoke dishing out some damage to a Cruiser (and with a faster reload now).

 

So it isn't useless at everything else, bar killing BB's. Not if you install the right skills to actually better the guns and range you can shoot at so it can do a bit more than just use it's torps. Funny enough, I did the same 2 skills on the Lightening DD and it can reach 14.7k on it's main guns then.

Do you just have about any idea how to play a DD effectively? I would guess not, stemming from such "qualified" remarks. This is basically what I mean that this is a "special" DD for "special" players, because it basically is a ship that is easy mode in one area that is easy and an uphill battle in so many of the more challenging aspects of DD play that you'd likely end up with two kinds of players:

• Those who know how to play DDs effectively and go out of their way to bother with all the important stuff still while making sure they can get their impact. Sadly they go on and call this DD "skilled" just because the skill ceiling is too low and one running into it feels like it requires so much skill to transcend it (often utterly misunderstanding the concept behind "skill ceiling") and a teamplay DD, because this ship forces teamplay to be successful, more than any others (though for any good WR in any DD, teamplay is essential). Or they just like to sink a few BBs for easy stress relief and don't care about the DD being a silly concept.
• Those who have basically no idea how to play a normal DD, get great results from a DD that at least holds their hands in one area, which is more than they'd ever achieve in any other DD where even the most basic stuff requires effort and who then think this is a good DD, because suddenly they get something done. Nevermind any of the more important aspects, this kind of player wouldn't be able to get much out of the ship, so that'd be wasted on them.

And honestly, one part of why this ship utterly disgusts me is that it basically encourages people of the second group to continue their brainless behaviour with way more "success" than they deserve. If someone who cannot figure out how to play the game derps around in a normal DD, they at least quickly become a nonfactor in the match and while bad for the team they are on, the other team doesn't have to care much.

 

As to why your post is just a great example of crappy Asashio play, I'm too tired to explain that at 6 am without heavy usage of expletives, but I think anyone with half a brain can tell you why sitting in a smoke for 90 seconds to use your IJN peashooters on a bunch of cruisers 13+ km away is just utterly terrible.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Vor 11 Minuten, Riselotte sagte:

As to why your post is just a great example of crappy Asashio play, I'm too tired to explain that at 6 am without heavy usage of expletives, but I think anyone with half a brain can tell you why sitting in a smoke for 90 seconds to use your IJN peashooters on a bunch of cruisers 13+ km away is just utterly terrible.

While I disagree about the AFT part as well (I'm just using EM and BFT), you should never underestimate the IJN "peashooters".

Spoiler

I'm currently doing about 60% of my Asashio kills with guns and only 40% with torps

 

[HaachamaShipping]

12 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

While I disagree about the AFT part as well (I'm just using EM and BFT), you should never underestimate the IJN "peashooters".

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm currently doing about 60% of my Asashio kills with guns and only 40% with torps

 

The main part pissing me off is sitting in a smoke for a full 90 seconds and firing to fire at stuff. I typically consider this questionable when I'm in a Harekaze, a DD that can actually go through cruisers at an appreciable rate, because it means we are down a scout. But in an Asashio, selfish use of smokes like this is basically just terrible. I'm pretty sure against the right targets with right ammo choice, you can do decent damage (even if it can get hard when the opponent actively counters you), but sitting there and firing at cruisers from ranges where AFT kick in...Like, there's using these guns in DD vs DD fights and kiting the enemy to death or providing supporting fire to allied DDs, which is very efficient use of the guns. Then comes selfish firesetting on BBs that blew damage control on a torp hit, which is not exactly a great usage of a DDs time, but can have value. And then there is trying to set fires on a cruiser, because their armour shatter shells anyway, bonus points if it's a T9 or T10 cruiser with a repair party. The only way to top that imo is by just parking behind an island and derping shells into the landscape. And depending on what you are shooting, the difference in effective results between shooting cruiser or island might be minimal.

[El2aZeR]

3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

My torps don't run further than 16 km

 

Do you actually follow the thread or always think everything is about you?

The other guy said firing torps at targets over 16km away is a legit approach to the game.

 

3 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Not as often as you think. But in these times you still got smoke + great guns and the best stealth to just spot enemies.

 

I could say the same about torping the common spots and getting a cheeky kill out of it.

 

Seriously, what part of these guns are great? They have underwhelming DPM and as such low fires per minute. If you're shooting at cruisers and BBs their mediocre ballistics don't matter either as these ships can be shot at with about the same success even with the USN 5"/38s.

 

The enemies you outspot by a huge margin don't care about being spotted and the enemies you don't will usually spot you before you will even render them if you're sailing anything but a near parallel course. A mere 400m difference to something is rarely enough to react and only an incredibly stupid DD is going to let himself get spotted by such for a long amount of time. They can either choose to engage, which you can't deal with by virtue of being slow as , or they can disengage for the same reason.

Your stealth is meaningless because the enemy DD dictates the situation and choose how to approach it, not you. If you get outspotted by an Asashio, or any other IJN torp DD for that matter, you turn away if he has support or you turn in if he doesn't. Either will save you and doom them, neither can they counter.

This is why IJN torp DDs fail even as spotters. Sure, every other DD you will spot at the same time, but every other DD presents a credible threat on its own, not just with support.

 

[MRGTB]

6 hours ago, Seiranko said:

The main part pissing me off is sitting in a smoke for a full 90 seconds and firing to fire at stuff.

I could say the same when in my slow Nelson and some Cruisers and DD ships all do the same thing to me. And some have pretty much the same long smoke duration time.Take an RN Cruiser which can do it in smoke for a long time, or Cruisers behind an Island that you can't even hit back spamming HE for longer than 90 seconds. So lets not single out the Asashio being able to do the same in smoke, many Cruisers and DD ships players do it in games. Nothing new!

[MRGTB]

5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

The other guy said firing torps at targets over 16km away is a legit approach to the game.

Huh? And what is wrong with firing blind torps, so long as you know they won't hit any of your own team by accident? I see a lot of other normal DD ships rush a cap and then fire 8 or 10k torps in the direction they think another enemy DD might enter into cap from for a chance kill. Again, nothing new.

 

Maybe you post on the forum too much these days, don't actually play the game anymore to see it going on? Then again, sounds like you play CV a lot reading the CV thread. No wonder you don't see what goes on with other normal ships..

[LOZFFVII]

3 hours ago, MRGTB said:

I see a lot of other normal DD ships rush a cap and then fire 8 or 10k torps in the direction they think another enemy DD might enter into cap from for a chance kill. Again, nothing new.

Speaking from experience, these DD players most likely have RL (Radio Location) as a captain skill, and as such know there is an enemy DD in the direction they are launching torps.

Blindly firing your torps in a direction on the off-chance you get lucky and hit a bottlesheep is moronic.

 

 

Oh, and if I had a £0.5 for every Asashio I've hunted down and sunk because I spotted his torps glide underneath me, I'd be able to purchase Asashio from the premium shop.

[Pikkozoikum]

10 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

While I disagree about the AFT part as well (I'm just using EM and BFT), you should never underestimate the IJN "peashooters".

  Hide contents

I'm currently doing about 60% of my Asashio kills with guns and only 40% with torps

 

I got 91 main battery kills and 115 torpedo kills

(40 flooding and fire)

 

10 hours ago, Seiranko said:

The main part pissing me off is sitting in a smoke for a full 90 seconds and firing to fire at stuff. I typically consider this questionable when I'm in a Harekaze, a DD that can actually go through cruisers at an appreciable rate, because it means we are down a scout. But in an Asashio, selfish use of smokes like this is basically just terrible. I'm pretty sure against the right targets with right ammo choice, you can do decent damage (even if it can get hard when the opponent actively counters you), but sitting there and firing at cruisers from ranges where AFT kick in...Like, there's using these guns in DD vs DD fights and kiting the enemy to death or providing supporting fire to allied DDs, which is very efficient use of the guns. Then comes selfish firesetting on BBs that blew damage control on a torp hit, which is not exactly a great usage of a DDs time, but can have value. And then there is trying to set fires on a cruiser, because their armour shatter shells anyway, bonus points if it's a T9 or T10 cruiser with a repair party. The only way to top that imo is by just parking behind an island and derping shells into the landscape. And depending on what you are shooting, the difference in effective results between shooting cruiser or island might be minimal.

Yes, I recommend to use the smoke for radar cruiser, that could have a huge impact to the match. My first smoke belongs almost always to the cruisers. Only reason not for using them for a cruiser is, if the cruiser is a potatoe and ignores my plan

 

9 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Do you actually follow the thread or always think everything is about you?

The other guy said firing torps at targets over 16km away is a legit approach to the game.

 

 

[..]

 

None of those, just don't see the post, where it' about shooting torps over 16km. Only that one bought this ship becuase of 20km torps and that bbs could use WASD.

Beside it's legit, the torps have 100s reload, that is just nothing. I shoot my torps at 15-16km as well, depending on situation. Makes no sense to keep torps, if the next 2 minutes wouldn't happen anything anyways.

[HaachamaShipping]

4 hours ago, MRGTB said:

I could say the same when in my slow Nelson and some Cruisers and DD ships all do the same thing to me. And some have pretty much the same long smoke duration time.Take an RN Cruiser which can do it in smoke for a long time, or Cruisers behind an Island that you can't even hit back spamming HE for longer than 90 seconds. So lets not single out the Asashio being able to do the same in smoke, many Cruisers and DD ships players do it in games. Nothing new!

A friggin Cleveland behind an island is playing its goddamn role as a dpm machine and if positioned properly as an area control asset with radar threat. If you spot for them, they can apply their vastly superior dpm. You going for selfish application of your abysmal gun dpm output is utterly throwing away the role you have. The only DD players that should do it are those like Akizuki that can throw out raw damage on cruiser levels.

[MRGTB]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Beside it's legit, the torps have 100s reload, that is just nothing. I shoot my torps at 15-16km as well, depending on situation. Makes no sense to keep torps, if the next 2 minutes wouldn't happen anything anyways.

Exactly, usually the first few minutes you'll not get a chance to aim and fire torps at any BB's. Which is why I'll shoot some blind torps long range towards enemy side of map straight away where I think they have a chance of getting a hit.

 

By the time you do see any BB's to target with torps later, you have reloaded then.

[MRGTB]

42 minutes ago, Seiranko said:

A friggin Cleveland behind an island is playing its goddamn role as a dpm machine and if positioned properly as an area control asset with radar threat

Ooooh! Stop singling out certain ships that do their role as an excuse. Are you seriously telling me that you don't see all types of DD's and many Cruisers with long duration smoke not sitting there in the open water (not behind an island) using smoke to hide and firing guns?

 

Come on, excuse for everything just to try and bash the Asashio

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, MRGTB said:

Ooooh! Stop singling out certain ships that do their role as an excuse. Are you seriously telling me that you don't see all types of DD's and many Cruisers with long duration smoke not sitting there in the open water (not behins an island) using it to hide and firing guns?

 

Come on, excuse for everything just to try and bash the Asashio

Cruisers with smoke are fulfilling their role. DDs with smokes are often not. Just because others play retarded doesn't mean you should play retarded. Just because half the people cannot figure out how to angle a battleship doesn't mean I have to broadside all day.

[antean]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:05 PM, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

I actually commented on that video, to which Flolo didn't reply.

I pointed out that the enemy team he had were incompetent and had I been in that shima I would've at least fired back.

I also pointed out that the major problem with Asashio, which basically caused all of these poor-quality players to gravitate towards her, was the fact that she was designed with a toxic mindset from the start.

---

DIY:

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is great humour I have to repeat it.

I was gifted a free Asashio by Yaskaraxx (which was generous, btw).

My opinion of the Asashio:

It appears to be a one trick pony. A  lower tier Shimakaze (?) due to its torp wall.  (tho I'm no expert on comparing ships).

I am still learning it tho I do realize Asashio needs to survive a long time - the longer the better. Is it effective by being more of a long range non-DD torper? 

I'm unsure it is worth it, really. Since I got it for free buying one is immaterial to me.  I will play it whenever I random it (to play) (or if I want to play T8+).

[MRGTB]

Lol, so you think smoke with a DD should only be used to hide yourself in once spotted. But never fire guns in it, that is all it should be used for?

 

Try telling more than half the players on the server that one then, who don't do what you think it should only be used for.

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Beside it's legit

 

Yes.

Because you have nothing else to fire them at as they cannot be used to flush DDs or cruiser out of their preferred positions which is crucial in the early game.

You just basically stated that Asashio torps suck, forcing you to attack targets with negligible chance for success or impact as they cannot be used otherwise.