Good DD players - Asashio - yes or no?

[El2aZeR]

39 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

Not less calibre guns like on many other Brit DD's for example.

 

Gun caliber doesn't matter as outlined already.

 

1 minute ago, MRGTB said:

It starts fires quite nicely on Cruisers and BB's.

 

Other DDs do it better. Just because you "feel" like they don't doesn't mean it is true.

[Migantium_Mashum]

1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Unless you are 1v1 with a cruiser at the end and can't do anything but die. Then you can be absolute unicum and still get shredded.

That's it just ruin my dreams... I am off to the Pub to drown in a Beer...

[MRGTB]

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Just because you "feel" like they don't doesn't mean it is true.

I don't feel it, I see it and watch them burn.

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

I don't feel it, I see it and watch them burn.

 

You FEEL like other DDs aren't as effective.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

Let me ask you a question? Would you rush at a Tier 10 B in cap using a T8 BB. No you wouldn't. So why do you think an Asashio should rush caps at the start of a game and face other DD's with faster guns.

Is some Benson a T10 DD now?

1 minute ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

That's it just ruin my dreams... I am off to the Pub to drown in a Beer...

Always glad to shatter the illusions of people who think this DD deserves any respect.

2 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

I don't feel it, I see it and watch them burn.

Congrats, you can set fires. Not really any better than others (and much worse than some), but I guess that makes the guns decent. Just like being able to spot (while being unable to take out the enemy spotting) makes the whole ship great as a team player or whatever. when will people stop praising this ship for being able to do something that others can do and where Asashio has barely any advantages? 

[Migantium_Mashum]

3 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Always glad to shatter the illusions of people who think this DD deserves any respect.

When did the Asashio scar you so? What made you so bitter against this fine little DD?

 

I have seen the Shatter Skill used by Mesmers in Guild Wars to combat Illusion spells.. for you to try to use it here... oh the horror.

 

I feel all DD's deserve respect because in the right hands they are pivotal... at least until the update later this month...

[MRGTB]

8 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

When did the Asashio scar you so?

Haters gonna a hate. 

[MRGTB]

17 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

when will people stop praising this ship for being able to do something that others can do and where Asashio has barely any advantages? 

The funny thing though, for a one trick pony you like to call it.

 

Most people that get it, actually tend to like it. One hell of a single trick it must have then.

[HaachamaShipping]

11 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

When did the Asashio scar you so? What made you so bitter against this fine little DD?

If it was a fine little DD I'd not be bitter. As it is, it's a severely limited ship that needs less skill to do what it still can do, while being even less able than any other DD to handle other stuff. It's a terrible design and it takes up the name of the Asashio-class.

17 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

I feel all DD's deserve respect because in the right hands they are pivotal... at least until the update later this month...

DDs that actually are designed to do their job deserve respect. But a DD that specialises in farming idiot BBs, somethin that basically belongs to the simplest things in the skillset of any decent DD captain, at the cost of some really important other things deserves no respect. Nor do the majority of Asashio players, because when you choose Asashio, you basically are fine with bringing a gimped ship to the match instead of a proper ship.

1 minute ago, MRGTB said:

The funny thing though, for a one trick pony you like to call it.

 

Most people that get it, actually tend to like it. One hell of a single trick it must have then.

Most people who buy something to get it's capability to do X like to use capability X. Most people who don't like it stay away. I hope that's not rocket science to you...

[MRGTB]

15 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

If it was a fine little DD I'd not be bitter. As it is, it's a severely limited ship that needs less skill to do what it still can do, while being even less able than any other DD to handle other stuff. It's a terrible design and it takes up the name of the Asashio-class.

The ship is good at what it does, if you play it right and take advantage of its strengths. Lose this "illusion" that you think it should be played the same as any other normal DD rushing cap all the time with limited range torps.

 

If you cannot see that the ship "as a whole" is not designed to do that, then I don't know what to say. Everything about the ship (it weaknesses) should tell you that it's not a DD for rushing caps and should be played more like a Cruiser at the start hunting down unsuspecting BB's. It's people like you, who just because you don't like the ship. That likes to see an Asashio rush cap and die in the first few minute because you think it's a useless ship.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, MRGTB said:

The ship is good at what it does, if you play it right and take advantage of its strengths. Lose this "illusion" that you think it should be played the same as any other normal DD rushing cap all the time with limited range torps.

It's good at doin the easiest and least influential thing and crap at doing the more difficult and more influential things. It's basically the ship for people who either just want to derp around in randoms for the heck of it or those who have no idea how to play a normal DD and thus need this "special" DD for "special" players.

[MRGTB]

5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

no idea how to play a normal DD and thus need this "special" DD for "special" players.

You did read me say I have the Cossack, yes?

 

I like both ships, but both have very different play styles.

 

And yes, maybe we Asashio players are a bit "special".

[allufewig]

I have no problems fighting other DDs in Asashio I must say. DPM sure isnt good, but the ballistics are fine, accuracy is fine, alpha is very fine. You have the first-shot-advantage (which is significant) and 2/3 of your guns on the back, which is also often useful in a DD vs DD scenario.  Asashio is not especially fast or nimble but it doesnt fall so much behind as that it would be a real hindrance. Summa, it performs adequate at capwork and is good in the reconnaissance role.

 

Cruisers arent your main prey in other DDs as well so I dont know how much the cruiser-argument is really worth. If you cant gun down a torpedo-aware cruiser in Asashio, chance is very high you couldnt gun it down in the majority of other DDs as well. No doubt Asashio is less flexible than other DDs, but it just doesnt matter *that* often imho. Murdering and zoning away the BBs like no other ship offsets this disadvantage very often in my experience.

 

It is a weird ship, maybe indeed a bit dumb as per design. But straight out bad? Nope. Absolutely not.

 

 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

12 minutes ago, allufewig said:

I have no problems fighting other DDs in Asashio I must say.

 

I don't have problems fighting BBs out in the open with even the most squishy cruisers either, yet that says more about the standard of play of BBs than the power of cruisers.

Fact remains skill is usually what decides engagements. A Gearing will fail against a Shima if he sucks at the game. Does that mean Gearing is inferior to Shima in general in a straight up fight?

So unless your target is low HP you're dooming yourself by initiating a fight against any hybrid DD. Even at low HP I would be careful, I've gunned down Shimas with less than 9k HP remaining in my Gearing.

 

18 minutes ago, allufewig said:

If you cant gun down a torpedo-aware cruiser in Asashio, chance is very high you couldnt gun it down in the majority of other DDs as well.

 

You don't need to gun them down. Just throw some torps in their path and at worst you'll make them turn and expose themselves to your 5 BB mafia.

Or just ambush them as you would any BB.

Cruisers are your most dangerous foes now that they've done away with BB AP pens and some of them are among the most influential ships in this game, as such not being able to fight or even hinder them makes you a huge liability to your team.

 

21 minutes ago, allufewig said:

Murdering and zoning away the BBs like no other ship offsets this disadvantage very often in my experience.

 

Except Asashio is completely  at murdering and zoning actually skilled BBs just like every other DD. The issue lies with torpedoes as a weapon itself, no amount of gimmicks is going to change that.

Meanwhile every other DD can farm braindead BBs too while offering so much more potential match influence it isn't even funny.

 

4 hours ago, MRGTB said:

Most people that get it, actually tend to like it.

 

Ofc they do. For skilled players it is a ship to shut down their brains with. For bad players it is to make them feel like they've accomplished something even when they've accomplished nothing.

[MRGTB]

43 minutes ago, allufewig said:

Cruisers arent your main prey in other DDs as well so I dont know how much the cruiser-argument is really worth.

I would agree with that. Not a good idea to try and take on a Cruiser with a DD.

 

We know how that one usually ends, if he spots you close to him you're dead with amount of guns, high accuracy and fast reload Cruisers tend to have.

[Pikkozoikum]

5 hours ago, Riselotte said:

Always glad to shatter the illusions of people who think this DD deserves any respect.

Asashio doesn't need any respect

 

[allufewig]

21 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Except Asashio is completely  at murdering and zoning actually skilled BBs just like every other DD. The issue lies with torpedoes as a weapon itself, no amount of gimmicks is going to change that.

Meanwhile every other DD can farm braindead BBs too while offering so much more potential match influence it isn't even funny.

 

*shrugs*

 

Its not like disposing braindead BBs fasther than anything else isnt a nice thing in itself. It means there is a higher chance your teammates will train their guns on something of greater importance earlier. Even Asashios server-winrate seems okay despite the range promoting misplay so heavily.

 

 I am tempted to agree with your conclusions when looking at competitive modes or even the higher levels of ranked. No sane person would ever pick an Asashio there. In randoms however, I know there are ways to make it work and have fun along the way.

[El2aZeR]

6 minutes ago, allufewig said:

Its not like disposing braindead BBs fasther than anything else isnt a nice thing in itself.

 

Except hybrid DDs are at least equally good at that by having a faster base reload to begin with.

 

7 minutes ago, allufewig said:

Even Asashios server-winrate seems okay despite the range promoting misplay so heavily.

 

That is because potatoes are dragging tech tree DD stats down. A potato usually won't invest money into something he fails miserably at, hence why there is very likely a larger ratio of players who actually know how to play DDs with an Asashio than, say, a Benson.

It's the same reason why stats of newer vessels tend to skyrocket, only to fall in line later as potatoes climb their way up. Premium ships are generally not in "danger" of that happening.

 

9 minutes ago, allufewig said:

In randoms however, I know there are ways to make it work and have fun along the way.

 

Of course. Almost everything can work in randoms due to the thoroughly abysmal average skill of the playerbase. And fun is entirely subjective and as such up to the individual.

People cannot tell me however that the Asashio is objectively a DD that has a lot of match influence when almost every one of her contemporaries is straight up superior in that regard.

[MRGTB]

52 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

So unless your target is low HP you're dooming yourself by initiating a fight against any hybrid DD. Even at low HP I would be careful, I've gunned down Shimas with less than 9k HP remaining in my Gearing. 

An Asashio doesn't do as bad as you might think fighing other DD. By that, I mean it can still make the fight a close run thing only just losing out. The Asashio would fair even better if you boosted it with the Ship HP skill and maxed out it's turret transverse and reload. I have done the last two but not took the skill to increase the ships HP. And in some fight it's usually a close thing without that boost on the ships HP.

 

It's not as a bad as you might think it is at fighting back with guns only. It aims well and usually lands all shots on target. Ballistics are good that way and some DD I'll fight seem surprised at times and turn around heading away, as though they thought it would be a real push over to kill

[MRGTB]

14 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

That is because potatoes are dragging tech tree DD stats down. A potato usually won't invest money into something he fails miserably at, hence why there is very likely a larger ratio of players who actually know how to play DDs with an Asashio than, say, a Benson.

It's the same reason why stats of newer vessels tend to skyrocket, only to fall in line later as potatoes climb their way up. Premium ships are generally not in "danger" of that happening.

Not true really. I had limited play in normal DD's before buying the Asashio. I wasn't good by any means in a normal DD when buying it, didn't tend to play DD that often really and stuck mostly with playing BB because of it. The reason I bought it was because I fancied playing a DD still, but didn't feel good enough in close combat trying to use 8k torps. Fancied the 20k torps because knew you could play the ship easier than a normal DD, a less frantic play style. So no, not all super skilled DD players buy the Asashio.

[allufewig]

18 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Except hybrid DDs are at least equally good at that by having a faster base reload to begin with.

 

 

 Apparently not. The Asashios have higher average damage (as well as the higher max damage values) thoughout the board, because they are more effective at exactly that: Nuking (idiot) battleships when and where they feel safe. After all, no one else carries 67kt-20km stealth- watermissiles at that tier.

[El2aZeR]

15 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

It's not as a bad as you might think it is at fighting back with guns only.

 

Yeah, right. It's not like there is a tremendous gap in experience between us.

Asashios are easy pickings in any DD except for other IJN torp boats. It is extremely common to not even lose a quarter of your HP in a hybrid or gunboat DD before taking one down. I have killed Asashio players that are statistically far better than you or Pikko for that matter. To say it wasn't even close would be an understatement.

 

15 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

Ballistics are good that way and some DD I'll fight seem surprised at times and turn around heading away, as though they thought it would be a real push over to kill

 

Ballistics are objectively mediocre as the RU DDs exist. And you're basically saying "if the enemy misplays like a dumb  I can kill him!". Guess what, that doesn't make a good ship because that applies to any ship.

 

9 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

So no, not all super skilled DD players buy the Asashio.

 

Did I say "super skilled"? The point is that these people who buy an Asashio usually know at least the basics of DD play. With tech tree ships you cannot even guarantee that.

 

2 minutes ago, allufewig said:

Apparently not.

 

Please tell me what I JUST stated about stats and premium ships.

[MRGTB]

Also, you approach a BB in a normal DD and try and shoot 8k torps from that range. You will flash up to a BB that something is in his area (he knows a DD is around and starts to turn). One good thing about the Asashio, you can stay outside that range so he gets no warning - let 16 torps go towards him using rapid torp reload with him having no idea what is coming his way because you never flashed up to him.

[El2aZeR]

6 minutes ago, MRGTB said:

Also, you approach a BB in a normal DD and try and shoot 8k torps from that range. You will flash up to a BB that something is in his area (he knows a DD is around and starts to turn). One good thing about the Asashio, you stay outside that range so he gets no warning to start turning and let 16 torps go towards him using rapid torp reload

 

Which he will then dodge by just pushing either WASD key once, not to mention the gigantic gaps your torps will inevitably develop over such a distance will sometimes allow even the biggest BBs to dodge broadside without even knowing your torps were there.

Also most BBs have better concealment than 16km, which means you will ALSO inevitably flash up to him if he is in stealth unless you like to torp blind which has a marginal chance of success at best. Aka Asashio isn't any better at this than any other DD.

 

You are even ignoring basic game mechanics at this point to create an argument. You must really be grasping at straws. Remember what I said about  DD players and Asashio? Think about that for a moment.

[allufewig]

10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Please tell me what I JUST stated about stats and premium ships.

 

Suuuuuuuure, Asashio has +50% average damage to the next best ship just because its playerbase is much more experienced. 

 

It has NOTHING to do with Asashios torpedoes being the overall more effective weapon versus oblivious BBs. Nononono. 

 

Youre always a show man.