Good DD players - Asashio - yes or no?

[Zen71_sniper]

Hello DD captains....

 

I come here for an advice - I have ground all DD lines, except RN DD (busy with it....) and I have some doubloons left thanks to RN event. I think that Asashio should never be in a game, but it is in game. That being said, HONESTLY, I can't remember a game where Asashio made a good impression on me. They usually torp from 20km or die in first 4 minutes.

 

Is it possible to play well with Asashio or is it a truly one trick pony? If you have it (experienced DD players only please....) would you buy it again?

 

Thx!

[Greyshark]

10 minutes ago, Zen71_sniper said:

They usually torp from 20km or die in first 4 minutes.

 

That is Asashio's fault, or player's who is sailing her?

 

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Is it possible to play well with Asashio or is it a truly one trick pony? If you have it (experienced DD players only please....) would you buy it again?

 

By all means yes, it's possible! It's great destroyer, with excellent concealment, very good guns, played wisely she can bring lot of fun and decide battle outcome. Would I buy her again? Hell yeah!

 

BTW, torping from 20 km isn't always bad. You can do it at beginning of the battle, sending torps widely towards enemy cap, in most cases you will score hit or two.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 hour ago, Greyshark said:

very good guns

*usable guns

 

Literally the only thing that is good about the guns is the ballistic arc. Other than that, the damage per gun is standard, the number of guns is slightly above average, the reload is bad (negating prior point), the turret traverse is bad. If these guns are even remotely worth calling "good", then I have no idea what T8 DD guns you'd ever call "bad".

 

1 hour ago, Zen71_sniper said:

Hello DD captains....

 

I come here for an advice - I have ground all DD lines, except RN DD (busy with it....) and I have some doubloons left thanks to RN event. I think that Asashio should never be in a game, but it is in game. That being said, HONESTLY, I can't remember a game where Asashio made a good impression on me. They usually torp from 20km or die in first 4 minutes.

 

Is it possible to play well with Asashio or is it a truly one trick pony? If you have it (experienced DD players only please....) would you buy it again?

 

Thx!

You likely can play well, given how dumb random players often are. Asashio just always had a low skill floor and a low skill ceiling. If you can live with that, that's basically it. And no, having a harder time to deal with cruisers, so you need to teamplay more is not indicative of a higher skill ceiling. Laying smokes and providing fire support like an Asashio can be done by a Kagero too.

 

Also, I agree, the ship is a mistake, it likely will stay around. Personally, I don't see a reason to hand WG money though for their questionable design. If it was like RN BB HE and essentially free, maybe I'd try it (just so people don't argue I have no clue what I'm talking about), but when my wallet is all I can do to vote, then that I do. Personally, I'd rather buy a less broken design or save it up for one.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Why would you spent real money on a one trick pony, while you can also play Kagero for free? Better in my eyes as well.
 

[Greyshark]

1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Literally the only thing that is good about the guns is the ballistic arc. Other than that, the damage per gun is standard, the number of guns is slightly above average, the reload is bad (negating prior point), the turret traverse is bad.

Also their location. Two double turrets on ship's stern will give you bettter firepower when you run away than you have on for example Kiev, Ognevoi or Hsienyang. As Asashio isn't a gunboat, after getting spotterd you'd rather want to run away than enter into gunfight. 

 

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then I have no idea what T8 DD guns you'd ever call "bad"

None of them, why should I?

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, Greyshark said:

Also their location. Two double turrets on ship's stern will give you bettter firepower when you run away than you have on for example Kiev, Ognevoi or Hsienyang. As Asashio isn't a gunboat, after getting spotterd you'd rather want to run away than enter into gunfight. 

The only reason this even matters is because your traverse is so crap that when you throw your ship around, the rear turrets kind of stay on target. In contrast a USN DD can just wait a few seconds and all guns turned around.

4 minutes ago, Greyshark said:

None of them, why should I?

Why can it not gunboat then? Protip, it's not the hp pool alone, because Harekaze with B-hull has fewer hp and can rip apart DDs. I can kinda understand when in Kindergarden we pretent every child is a star, cause children have feelings. These bunches of pixels don't. There is no point pretending these guns aren't just not good. And I don't get why every Asashio enthusiast always praises these guns as if they were good (to the point some even argued they are better than Kagero's). Noone's going to die from admitting these guns are bad and it would be better if new Asashio players (and IJN DD players in general) got a realistic idea of what they can use these guns for and what not. And as said, they are still usable for a fair few things, but they are worse at a great deal of things compared to other DDs and no amount of baseless praise will make them "good".

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

I prefer the IJN torp line guns over the German ones. You need rpf to make it work though.

[konean]

In terms of playing for win its a useless ship. Your limited in your decisions and need to hope you get situations that suits you. 

[Greyshark]

22 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

The only reason this even matters is because your traverse is so crap that when you throw your ship around, the rear turrets kind of stay on target. In contrast a USN DD can just wait a few seconds and all guns turned around.

You know, apples to apples. What's the point of comparing guns of gunboats and torpedoboats? Same as comparing their torps I guess.

 

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I can kinda understand when in Kindergarden we pretent every child is a star, cause children have feelings. These bunches of pixels don't. There is no point pretending these guns aren't just not good. And I don't get why every Asashio enthusiast always praises these guns as if they were good (to the point some even argued they are better than Kagero's).

The feeling of something being "good" and "bad" is strictly subjetive; what for me is good, for you could be an utter $hiT, therefore you can't claim something is good or bad. It's only your opinion, not a fact. Perhaps I should have written "they are good as for torpedoboat", then it were more understable or you.

 

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new Asashio players (and IJN DD players in general) got a realistic idea of what they can use these guns for and what not.

 

One could say, new Asashio players, buying tier VIII should already have general idea about guns of torpedoboats, considering thay have already grinded lower (and perhaps higher too) tiers.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, Greyshark said:

You know, apples to apples. What's the point of comparing guns of gunboats and torpedoboats? Same as comparing their torps I guess.

When a gunboat fights a torp boat, the game doesn't care what is what. Just because the Asashio cannot gunboat doesn't mean its guns magically become good. 

2 minutes ago, Greyshark said:

The feeling of something being "good" and "bad" is strictly subjetive; what for me is good, for you could be an utter $hiT, therefore you can't claim something is good or bad. It's only your opinion, not a fact. Perhaps I should have written "they are good as for torpedoboat", then it were more understable or you.

Everyone can look at a stat sheet and see that they aren't good (there is no relativism in hard stats). And it says a lot about these guns if you look at what DDs these days are really pure torpedo boats. Basically only IJN DDs. All other high tier DDs are hybrids or gunboats, meaning they are citadel-less CLs in disguise or they have a workable set of either armament. Only the IJN torp boat line remains pure torp boats and for them it's almost more a description of how crippling their specialisation is.

7 minutes ago, Greyshark said:

One could say, new Asashio players, buying tier VIII should already have general idea about guns of torpedoboats, considering thay have already grinded lower (and perhaps higher too) tiers.

Look at the game and tell me these folks have an idea. And frankly, I question anyone having an idea about guns that tells me these guns are genuinely "good".

[Greyshark]

3 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

When a gunboat fights a torp boat, the game doesn't care what is what. Just because the Asashio cannot gunboat doesn't mean its guns magically become good. 

Unless you are forced to, you don't go into gunfight vs gunboat in Asashio. Or you go when you are sure you will win. It's basic knowledge of anyone playing torpedoboats.

 

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Look at the game and tell me these folks have an idea. And frankly, I question anyone having an idea about guns that tells me these guns are genuinely "good".

I don't know if they have an idea, I don't pay attention how other people play. You can question whatever you want, it's right to have your own opinion, just as I can have mine. You don't expect everyone everytime will share your opinion, do you?

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, Greyshark said:

Unless you are forced to, you don't go into gunfight vs gunboat in Asashio. Or you go when you are sure you will win. It's basic knowledge of anyone playing torpedoboats.

The reason you don't pick fights is because the guns are bad, not because you are a torp boat. Asashio and Kagero are torp boats because their guns are bad, not the other way round. If the guns weren't crap, the ships would be hybrids and they'd be acting differently.

 

And that can be seen easily with the other sibling of the Kagero, Harekaze, which basically shows that. Stock torps, so it hits slightly less hard (but hits harder than any non-IJN DD at T8 and it has 10 secs better reload), less hp, same concealment and speed. Yet the ship is not a pure torpedo boat because it has a different set of guns, which allow it to fight most other DDs at its tier and crap on some cruisers even.

 

Armament defines the role of a DD, the role does not define the quality of armament. And noone's going to give a crap what your DD is role-wise when a Kagero, Asashio, Cossack, Lightning or Harekaze, Yuugumo bump into each other (they all have 5.4-5.5 km concealment and about the same speed, except Cossack, which is faster). Your raw gun stats matter as to what you can safely pull off and what you cannot pull off. It comes into play when you have to deal with an enemy because maybe they are in the way, maybe they chased you successfully, maybe they are capping your base, maybe it's the only way to not lose on points.

 

And for Asashio as added hurdle, only gun stats matter if it ever is confronted with a cruiser and while you can gun down low-hp cruisers, you'll still be restricted to almost dead cruisers, whereas other DDs might get away with more (due to better dpm, fire starting or even penetration values) and actually can try go for the torp..

21 minutes ago, Greyshark said:

I don't know if they have an idea, I don't pay attention how other people play. You can question whatever you want, it's right to have your own opinion, just as I can have mine. You don't expect everyone everytime will share your opinion, do you?

And it's right to point out when an opinion is wrong or stated in a way that is misleading. For better phrasing, you can say, you "like" those guns. That kind of expresses that we are dealing with your subjective opinion here. And hey, I also kind of like my Yuugumo guns over my Loyang guns. But saying the guns are good implies that these guns actually have something making them good that isn't just your subjective opinion.

[Zen71_sniper]

7 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Why would you spent real money on a one trick pony, while you can also play Kagero for free? Better in my eyes as well.
 

I have a Harekaze and it is one my favorite ships. But as I said in the OP, I have some doubloons, so it is not real, real money. I am just interested is Asashio enjoyable enough to play (= contribute to a win in a meaningful manner) or if it will become another port queen, rusting....

 

On another topic, the choices are very limited when it comes to doubloon spending.... The tech tree choices are rather meh and I am not really interested in premium time.... The only destroyers (or cruisers) that I don't have are not available for purchase for doubloons.

[HaachamaShipping]

33 minutes ago, Zen71_sniper said:

I have a Harekaze and it is one my favorite ships. But as I said in the OP, I have some doubloons, so it is not real, real money. I am just interested is Asashio enjoyable enough to play (= contribute to a win in a meaningful manner) or if it will become another port queen, rusting....

 

On another topic, the choices are very limited when it comes to doubloon spending.... The tech tree choices are rather meh and I am not really interested in premium time.... The only destroyers (or cruisers) that I don't have are not available for purchase for doubloons.

Personally, I sit on a bit over 6k doubloons. I mostly am waiting for something worthwhile or I'll just use the stock for crap like redistributing captain skills. While the latter might be wasteful, I guess there'd be nothing wrong with waiting for the next rotation and see if maybe they add Haida, Z-39 or T-61 to the shops, which you seem to not have, which are kind of good and not limited (though T-61 kinda is OP). Those doubloons aren't due to expire, methinks.

 

Heck, maybe one day it can be used to convert free exp if they ever give a free exp DD. Dunno.

[Lootboxer]

@Riselotte for a weak and useless Asashio looks very good in stats against all other T8s. Second to Lighting in WR. Low skill floor you said? OK. Maybe it explains. What about the low ceiling then? Top 25% of players still second. Top 10% third. Top 5% and second again. Not bad for a broken boat (I admit it) with a low skill floor and ceiling. Just by being area deny she can carry battles forcing BBs to hide uselessly behind the islands or run to the A-line. Only being seen once in MM she does it sometimes. I do not have her but I have seen many good players playing her, my workmate who has her talked about her in details to me and even if she can not carry battles singlehandedly she can flip the score very often just by eliminating/pushing away enemy bbs from the vicinity of objectives.  Plus she can do a lot of standard DD tasks fine like spotting, capping, smoking teammates etc. With buffed guns, she is even dangerous to enemy DDs.  And why wouldn't you buff the guns if yours torps are best in the whole game in BB hunting already? As long as there will be 4-5 BBs every game, with half of them being potatoes she will be very good. Broken by design but very good. Not OP good as some BaBies call her but very good regardless.  Second best or even best T8 as Lighting is currently played mostly by very good and experienced players as a new line higher tier boat. And I am not advising to buy this broken design, nor do I am going to (unless some big discount will happen)

[_Teob_]

16 hours ago, Zen71_sniper said:

Hello DD captains....

 

I come here for an advice - I have ground all DD lines, except RN DD (busy with it....) and I have some doubloons left thanks to RN event. I think that Asashio should never be in a game, but it is in game. That being said, HONESTLY, I can't remember a game where Asashio made a good impression on me. They usually torp from 20km or die in first 4 minutes.

 

Is it possible to play well with Asashio or is it a truly one trick pony? If you have it (experienced DD players only please....) would you buy it again?

 

Thx!

 

I wouldn't get it (and in fact I have not bought it despite having most premium ships).

 

It is too limited. It's nice if you want to spam torpedoes at BBs but everything else will eat you alive. Make no mistake, nobody will be afraid of your guns.

[Zen71_sniper]

Thanks all, it is probably too much of a one trick pony....

 

I think that I will wait for the next rotation of ships in tech trees.  Well, if there is no Z-39 or T-61 in the next rotation, then ...

[_Teob_]

@Zen71_sniper I don't know if it's available but if you want a t8 DD with a unique play style and quite a lot of versatility, take a look at the Lo Yang. It has the added benefit of being a captain trainer for the best DD line in the game right now (Pan-Asia).

Due to hydro it can hold its own in t10 matches and it absolutely dominates t6s and t7s.

[ShinGetsu]

You're gonna have a field day in the case the enemy team lost some BB and you find your Asashio utterly useless because you are a target for tier VII gunboats - let alone tier VIII -  and you literally can't do a thing to cruisers.

 

That ship is simply too limited. It got good server stats because any idiot can turn in circle and spam torpedoes, and BBabies catches them as if they were Pokemon, but when you really need a DD that can do real DD things, Asashio is useless. When you need a DD to flush out other DDs from their smoke, to forces cruisers to turn into your torpedoes or die, when you need a DD that can actually contest objective, Asashio can't do any of these. At best it can somewhat spots... provided it doesn't run into a Lightning, a Benson, a HsienYang, a Z-23, a Harekaze, an Akizuki or any DD tier 9+ including Yuugumo and Shimakaze. Even Terrible would bully Asashio.

 

So yeah, it should probably works for the majority of random battle, because players are just that bad. As long as you don't run into CV matches, don't need to contest objective, and don't have to fight CA/CLs, I guess you can secure pretty easily a 55+%WR with it.

It's only worth is to be able to farm damage on BBs pretty fast and remove their guns from the game. And that requires actually hitting with the torpedoes, so fighting braindead BBs.

 

Is it worth, tho ? Absolutely not. You'll just win the easy matches against potatoes and will be useless during all the interesting battles. Basically mindless farming.

 

If there is one premium DD I would recommend, it should be Harekaze. If it ever comes back in sales, just buy it. It's just that good, one of the most versatile DD in the game and even got various playstyle depending on your captain skill and if you mount smoke or TRB.

Or get yourself a Kidd or a Lo Yang.

[Zen71_sniper]

26 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

@Zen71_sniper I don't know if it's available but if you want a t8 DD with a unique play style and quite a lot of versatility, take a look at the Lo Yang. It has the added benefit of being a captain trainer for the best DD line in the game right now (Pan-Asia).

Due to hydro it can hold its own in t10 matches and it absolutely dominates t6s and t7s.

Thanks @_Teob_, good advice, but I already have Yo Lang  

 

I have most of the premium DDs, the missing ones are Sims, Monaghan (both of these seem a bit boring tbh), Cossack (soon, soon...), T-61, Z-39 and Asashio. And Black (hoping to have enough steel after next Ranked).

[Miessa3]

10 hours ago, Zen71_sniper said:

I have a Harekaze and it is one my favorite ships. But as I said in the OP, I have some doubloons, so it is not real, real money. I am just interested is Asashio enjoyable enough to play (= contribute to a win in a meaningful manner) or if it will become another port queen, rusting....

 

On another topic, the choices are very limited when it comes to doubloon spending.... The tech tree choices are rather meh and I am not really interested in premium time.... The only destroyers (or cruisers) that I don't have are not available for purchase for doubloons.

Asashio is very much a onetrick pony, that only gets her rather good stats by farming idiot BBs.

The whole reason you ever buy this ship is, if you can't resist the taste of salty tears of bad BB players and/or are in desperate needs of some Liquidator medals.

You said you don't like onetrick ponies and connect ejoyable play with contributing to a win in a meaningful manner, so I definatly don't recommend it to you.

Buy Z-39 instead.

Also I agree with @Riselotte Harekaze outclasses Asashio in any aspect (other than farmin BB tears) and is easily the best Premium Tier VIII DD if even only for it versatility.

If this ship (or a equal copy) is ever in the shop again and you still wonder about buying a Tier VIII premium DD the go for this one.

[Zen71_sniper]

1 minute ago, Miessa3 said:

Asashio is very much a onetrick pony, that only gets her rather good stats by farming idiot BBs.

The whole reason you ever buy this ship is, if you can't resist the taste of salty tears of bad BB players and/or are in desperate needs of some Liquidator medals.

You said you don't like onetrick ponies and connect ejoyable play with contributing to a win in a meaningful manner, so I definatly don't recommend it to you.

Buy Z-39 instead or even Lo Yang like some suggested.

Also I agree with @Riselotte Harekaze outclasses Asashio in any aspect (other than farmin BB tears) and is easily the best Premium Tier VIII DD if even only for it versatility.

If this ship (or a equal copy) is ever in the shop again and you still wonder about buying a Tier VIII premium DD the go for this one.

Z-39 would be my preference, but you can't get it for doubloons.  I do have Harekaze, very good ship.... 

[HaachamaShipping]

4 hours ago, DariusJacek said:

@Riselotte for a weak and useless Asashio looks very good in stats against all other T8s. Second to Lighting in WR. Low skill floor you said? OK. Maybe it explains. What about the low ceiling then? Top 25% of players still second. Top 10% third. Top 5% and second again. Not bad for a broken boat (I admit it) with a low skill floor and ceiling.

Yes, low skill floor, low skill ceiling. What matters more in this ship than your own skill is pretty much that of your opponents. And guess what, most of the time in randoms, enemy BB are crap. Good players just farm them more effectively, and are slightly better at exploiting the few opportunities with guns there are. But you can be a 70% unicum, if you are stuck confronted with an enemy cruiser towards the end, what can you do? Good luck trying to gun even a T6 La Galissoniere down, if it has anywhere close to half hp. And good luck playing this ship in any match where there is 1-2 BB or where the enemy team has an actual idea of what they are doing. This is why the skill ceiling is low. Far too much is up to circumstances and your opponent's skill, not yours.

5 minutes ago, Zen71_sniper said:

Thanks @_Teob_, good advice, but I already have Yo Lang  

 

I have most of the premium DDs, the missing ones are Sims, Monaghan (both of these seem a bit boring tbh), Cossack (soon, soon...), T-61, Z-39 and Asashio. And Black (hoping to have enough steel after next Ranked).

Haida? Is missing too. But yeah, as said before, I'd not fret too much over what to spend doubloons on and just save them for when the rotation changes to something worthwhile. Get your money's worth out of the ships you have. 

[Miessa3]

6 minutes ago, Zen71_sniper said:

Z-39 would be my preference, but you can't get it for doubloons..... 

Jeah I know I am still waiting for that to happen too.

Sims is rather meh too and only funny for base xp shenanigans (like that one time we had Tier VII ranked ) or the overworked Dunkirk Operation and let's say I am glad i got Monaghan for "free".

You can look forward to T-61 and Black though.

No clue about Cossack.... (also still grinding)

[Lootboxer]

In short, it is just this: very good and effective, probably the best, but nothing more than

Spoiler

Potato farming device