Battleship shell damage and Destroyers (reading list included) (Nov-2018 Dev Bulletin ver.)

[KarmaQU_EU]

Mainly relevant for BB vs DD.

("The loss of Destroyers' HP from an AP shell with a caliber of 280 mm and higher will no longer exceed 10% of the maximum possible damage caused by such a shell.")

("With exception to Khabarovsk and Harugumo".)

 

 

Discuss without necro.

 

Please feel free to leave your thoughts, comments, and feedback in this thread. Thank you. I will try to organize any specific links relevant to the discussion in post 2. 

So we don't have to necro old post.

Sorry for the commanding language, it was wholly wrong and inconsiderate of me, I realize my folly now, you are right, I will correct the mistake, I hope it has not caused you too much harm, I will try to ensure it does not happen again, please forgive me very nice person you are.

[KarmaQU_EU]

\Supportive Links:

 

Main Links:

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/public-test/bulletin-0711/

 

NA forum links: (Highly Recommended !!) (w.i.p.)

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/173694-ap-penetration-on-0711-discussion-thread/

 

Past Threads on this issue: (please post threads I missed in comments)(reverse chronological)

 

German:

 

French:

 

Other Notable Replies: (welcome to suggest in comments)

 

 

 

Other Supportive Material: (eg. on AP shells in general, all personal choice)(mixed order)

 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 4 Minuten, KarmaQU_EU sagte:

Short version:

 

"BB main armament damage to DDs will be limited to 10% of the DD's maximum health per shell".

("With exception to Khabarovsk and Harugumo".)

 

Discuss.

Not if you use command language. Try to politely invite us an a friendly manner.

[Acetessigester]

Quote

The loss of ships’ HP from an AP shell with a caliber of 280 mm and higher will no longer exceed 10% of the maximum possible damage caused by such a shell.

Source:

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/public-test/bulletin-0711/

[BeauNidl3]

You couldn't have just contributed to this live thread here? :- 

 instead of creating yet another thread?

 

@Tuccy, @MrConway can we please fold this thread into the live one? Thanks.

[loppantorkel]

I don't mind a new thread when/if WG has given some new info, is trying out a new mechanic or if there's just something more specific to discuss. Long threads are tougher to keep up with and often gets derailed. This can be more specific for a while.

 

For the actual topic: I don't see anything breaking from implementing this. Dd life should improve. Khaba is fine regardless. Haru will be more restricted in its role, but I think it was overperforming somewhat, so it should be fine.

The worst part is probably specific rules for specific ships. It just adds unneeded complexity, but if there's no better solution, I guess it should be good enough.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Why not just give it to Khaba and Haragumo as well?

I couldn't care less when I play BB... Makes it less complex.

[KarmaQU_EU]

Why I'm making this: 

 

I've always wanted forums to be more "academically" friendly, aka. better categorizing, of topics, replies, reactions, timeband, community information pooling and feedback structure, and of course the main topic itself.

 

Of the many improvement ideas that were suggested in the past, few were for the forums, and fewer were implemented, and after a long time, if at all.

 

I shouldn't have to manually do this.

[KarmaQU_EU]

A thing to consider is High tier BB blap lower tier DDs with less health. Aka. cross-tier interaction. A MM problem.

[DFens_666]

13 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Why not just give it to Khaba and Haragumo as well?

 

Not strong enough already?

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Not strong enough already?

They just tickle a bit. But well, Montana is the easiest ship to delete them with and also the one I only play.

 

[loppantorkel]

38 minutes ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

A thing to consider is High tier BB blap lower tier DDs with less health. Aka. cross-tier interaction. A MM problem.

Not really, unless you can provide a better argument/more info.

[KarmaQU_EU]

11 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Not really, unless you can provide a better argument/more info.

"Graf Zep vs random T6 BB" needs no argument / info.

"Amagi vs. Buki" Should also trigger vivid scenes.

 

You were probably expecting complex mathematic tables of DD armour vs BB shell pen over tiers sry.

[BeauNidl3]

52 minutes ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

Why I'm making this: 

 

I've always wanted forums to be more "academically" friendly, aka. better categorizing, of topics, replies, reactions, timeband, community information pooling and feedback, and of course the main topic itself.

 

Of the many improvement ideas that were suggested in the past, few were for the forums, and fewer were implemented, and after a long time, if at all.

 

I shouldn't have to manually do this.

 

Or the simple fact is you like the sound of your own voice, write endlessly long posts that say very little and you feel you're qualified and entitled to try to dictate the direction of the game that you DON'T EVEN PLAY....

 

The original thread is perfectly acceptable and your perma-send approach is just downright DULL.

[loppantorkel]

1 minute ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

"Graf Zep vs random T6 BB" needs no argument / info.

"Amagi vs. Buki" Should also trigger vivid scenes.

well, then the argument isn't that higher tier bbs blap lower tier dds. More like a general argument against +-2 tier MM.

[KarmaQU_EU]

2 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

well, then the argument isn't that higher tier bbs blap lower tier dds. More like a general argument against +-2 tier MM.

Idk if it's a tendency of me to overcomplexify everything by default, but from reading some of those posts I was browsing through, the problem about BBs blapping DDs is partly BB shell mechanics and armour mechanics and how damage is calculated in this game, and partly also a lot of qualitative things such as class balance and overall gameplay.

MM is part of it. Fairness, etc.

[KarmaQU_EU]

8 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

 

[loppantorkel]

11 minutes ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

Idk if it's a tendency of me to overcomplexify everything by default, but from reading some of those posts I was browsing through, the problem about BBs blapping DDs is partly BB shell mechanics and armour mechanics and how damage is calculated in this game, and partly also a lot of qualitative things such as class balance and overall gameplay.

MM is part of it. Fairness, etc.

I think the potential issues should be separated to not derail the topic. BB AP vs dds is an issue of its own.

[eliastion]

1 hour ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Why not just give it to Khaba and Haragumo as well?

I couldn't care less when I play BB... Makes it less complex.

I'm not sure about Harugumo (since she just has huge HP pool) but one of the special traits of Khabarovsk is that she has some relevant armor. This is a big advantage of her (she can bounce pretty big shells with that) but also one of her pronounced weaknesses (she can arm big shells when showing broadside). Removing the possibility of suffering more than 10% damage from big guns would get rid of the drawback while keeping the advantage that no other DD enjoys. This change is effectively "every pen is an overpen" kind of a deal and a DD that explicitly has the weakness of inviting full penetrations due to thick plating isn't well suited for the benefits.

As for Harugumo, I think it would be a better idea to nerf her health a bit (if she were to be deemed too resilient after the change) but then again - Harugumo is a strange beast that is uncommonly for a DD strong against cruisers. It's not really that bad of an idea to make her, in turn, uncommonly weak to BB fire.

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, eliastion said:

It's not really that bad of an idea to make her, in turn, uncommonly weak to BB fire.

 

Probably would be even better if she wouldnt have 32mm HE penetration.

[BeauNidl3]

13 minutes ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

 

 

Boo hoo, you can't face it that people think you're dull and so completely obsessed with your own views so disinclined to debate.

A person that has claimed many times to have completely quit the game has no place trying to dictate the direction it is taking.

[eliastion]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Probably would be even better if she wouldnt have 32mm HE penetration.

No, then she would be utterly useless. Have you seen her concealment? Or how that piece of crap handles? Cruiser firepower is a necessity for her to stay viable. Even more so when British DDs appeared with their insane anti-DD firepower. If Harugumo was also effective only against unarmored targets, what exactly would be the purpose of her existence in a game that has Daring?

 

Anyway, though, this is offtop for the thread about BB AP.

[anonym_mlJIAFnOwMVb]

7 hours ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

Boo hoo, you can't face it that people think you're dull and so completely obsessed with your own views so disinclined to debate.

A person that has claimed many times to have completely quit the game has no place trying to dictate the direction it is taking.

following...

[NothingButTheRain]

17 hours ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

\Supportive Links:

 

Main Links:

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/public-test/bulletin-0711/

 

NA forum links: (Highly Recommended !!) (w.i.p.)

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/173694-ap-penetration-on-0711-discussion-thread/

 

Past Threads on this issue: (please post threads I missed in comments)(reverse chronological)

 

German:

 

French:

 

Other Notable Replies: (welcome to suggest in comments)

 

 

 

Other Supportive Material: (eg. on AP shells in general, all personal choice)(mixed order)

 

Are you suggesting to put all these complaint topics into a single topic like the radar one?

[Hugh_Ruka]

15 hours ago, eliastion said:

No, then she would be utterly useless. Have you seen her concealment? Or how that piece of crap handles? Cruiser firepower is a necessity for her to stay viable. Even more so when British DDs appeared with their insane anti-DD firepower. If Harugumo was also effective only against unarmored targets, what exactly would be the purpose of her existence in a game that has Daring?

 

Anyway, though, this is offtop for the thread about BB AP.

Because Khaba is usefull against anything but superstructures even with IFHE ...

 

Harugumo with IFHE can coat almost anything T8+ with effective HE damage. Khaba can only do superstructures as everybody has 25mm+ armor. Considering the rate of fire and shell volume Harugumo is capable of ... well ... If you don't get IFHE, you can go full concealment and still have much better concealment than Khaba was ever capable of.

 

It's not like the Akizuki of old was a bad ship ... Same would apply to Harugumo with normal HE penetration.