Developer Bulletin 0.7.11 - Discussion Thread

[Hugh_Ruka]

Hello WG,

 

I'd like to propose a simple fix for the situation. Simply take the effective armor thickness for arming an AP shell fuse as the limit for autobounce.

 

Basically for 410mm and above, 68mm of effective armor is needed to arm the shell fuse (according to wiki). If we take 19mm DD hull at T10, this is effective thickness reached at 25 degree incident angle but that is already in autobounce/overmatch territory. If you take the general 30 degree autobounce angle (yes, there are exceptions, just illustrating my point), the effective thickness of a 19mm plate will be 55.5 degrees which means no fuse arming and an overpen at any angle ....

 

As 19mm is overmatched by 280mm guns and above, that would have the same end effect as your proposed change anyway while being much more consistent. Some checking needs to be done against other ships (light cruisers etc).

 

On 11/1/2018 at 12:05 PM, t0ffik1 said:

Ok tell me how i can dodge efficiently torps from a DD 6-7km away with my 1km turning cycle and the dirrection i dont know where they will come from (if the dd is on flank or in 1 vs 1) As a 70%WR player it seems i dont have the skill to efficiently do that (i cant dodge from so close range 10-15 torp wall with current turning cycles and rudder shifts - specially the US super stealth and deepwater are undodgable if dropped semi correclty).

If he got that close, you either:

 

1. are alone on a flank - mistake by you

2. were surprised from behind an island - props to him for setting up position right

 

Basically it is the same as if somebody torps you from stealth, just this time you have an option to inflict some damage on him so a net gain for you.

[FoxtrotOscar_]

43 minutes ago, radius77 said:

I don't get the whine about DDs being more resistent againt large caliber AP. What it promotes is that BBs should also use brain sometimes and adapt to use HE if nedeed.   

 

That's the problem though, BBs don't want to use their brains. 

[Danucu_Tigger]

3 hours ago, radius77 said:

I don't get the whine about DDs being more resistent againt large caliber AP. What it promotes is that BBs should also use brain sometimes and adapt to use HE if nedeed.   

 

DDs stll are a class with very high skill ceiling. There is a lot of of low concealment CA/CLs, radars and maps become more and more corridors loaded with Worcester/DM/Moskva/Stalingrad/Krohnstadt behind each rock.

But sure, if someone is a f.... lazy Yamato camper that gets caught "sniping" from line 10 ... well - it's not a reason to delete with AP a smart Shima that made an effort to sneak up.

 

 

 

What will actually promote is more camping and universal use of HE by BBs. I've seen this in ranked spirit: everyone stays comfortably back and set fire after fire on the enemy BBs that were stupid enough to push and try to help their lighter forces.

 

Btw, there are also low and mid range games and radar isn't so prevalent there. Have fun being up-tiered and facing a Kitakaze in something without radar like a Myoko.

 

Why don't they just nerf the BB accuracy against DDs at ranges in excess of 10km if that's the problem? 

PS: you do realize that every BB player will switch to HE at the beginning of the match and just fire at the first DD spotted like before. So for the DDs  there's gonna be a lot more module damage and fires, maybe some permanent.

[Danucu_Tigger]

3 hours ago, radius77 said:

I don't get the whine about DDs being more resistent againt large caliber AP. What it promotes is that BBs should also use brain sometimes and adapt to use HE if nedeed.   

 

DDs stll are a class with very high skill ceiling. There is a lot of of low concealment CA/CLs, radars and maps become more and more corridors loaded with Worcester/DM/Moskva/Stalingrad/Krohnstadt behind each rock.

But sure, if someone is a f.... lazy Yamato camper that gets caught "sniping" from line 10 ... well - it's not a reason to delete with AP a smart Shima that made an effort to sneak up.

 

 

 

What will actually promote is more camping and universal use of HE by BBs. I've seen this in ranked spirit: everyone stays comfortably back and set fire after fire on the enemy BBs that were stupid enough to push and try to help their lighter forces.

 

Btw, there are also low and mid range games and radar isn't so prevalent there. Have fun being up-tiered and facing a Kitakaze in something without radar like a Myoko.

 

Why don't they just nerf the BB accuracy against DDs at ranges in excess of 10km if that's the problem? 

PS: you do realize that every BB player will switch to HE at the beginning of the match and just fire at the first DD spotted like before. So for the DDs  there's gonna be a lot more module damage and fires, maybe some permanent.

[malaquey]

6 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Hello WG,

 

I'd like to propose a simple fix for the situation. Simply take the effective armor thickness for arming an AP shell fuse as the limit for autobounce.

 

Basically for 410mm and above, 68mm of effective armor is needed to arm the shell fuse (according to wiki). If we take 19mm DD hull at T10, this is effective thickness reached at 25 degree incident angle but that is already in autobounce/overmatch territory. If you take the general 30 degree autobounce angle (yes, there are exceptions, just illustrating my point), the effective thickness of a 19mm plate will be 55.5 degrees which means no fuse arming and an overpen at any angle ....

 

As 19mm is overmatched by 280mm guns and above, that would have the same end effect as your proposed change anyway while being much more consistent. Some checking needs to be done against other ships (light cruisers etc).

What an excellent suggestion, this would remove the need for "fudge the numbers" type fixes and keep the consistent shell performance from ship to ship. This would also allow AP to be more effective against more armoured targets, like a khaba without special rules.

[Srle_Vigilante]

Knowing WG, *COUGH* RPF *COUGH* They are probably going to ignore the entire backlash of the community and still going to go through with all these stupid changes.

[erbfourie]

Dear WG, are you freaking serious, the issue is not the AP on DDS but the broken mechanic radar in the game. If you are going to spend time fixing a game mechanic make it so that radar cannot spot ships through rock - like radar actually works. You already have the normal spotting mechanic use that and apply to radar as the current radar is more a remove fog of war for radar radius as apposed to sent signal and get response from obstacles encountered. Meaning that if it was radar it will report island "obstacle" and not island with ship, ship name, class, etc. behind rock 

 

So you keep changing the game to accommodate the OP Broken Radar instead of addressing the real issue in the game

[Grumpy_Shark]

Please reconsider your choice to change the behavior of the bullets fired against various ship anglings. It will dump game down. It will make the game uninteresting and boring potato fiesta. Follow the link to watch this and see for yourselves. IT WILL BE TERRIBLE.  

Watch this part of video of flamu's twitch. It shows just what a DISASTEROUS CHANGE THIS WILL BE (watch after 1hours:42minutes:00seconds)

 

 

[Cammo1962]

On 11/2/2018 at 3:42 AM, antean said:

 

 

Hasn't anyone figured out that WG keeps overreacting?

All these continual 'tweaks' are nonsense.

 Let's limit what class the players play & we will nerf BBs to account for that latest WG overreaction.

SNAFU & FUBAR (again).

 

 

Someone have cried that they are being killed by BBs AP and yes WG is overreacting

 

On 11/2/2018 at 8:49 AM, ColonelPete said:

And you still can in the game...

By forcing me to switch to HE with a 30 sec reload that is not going to happen sry to say

[ColonelPete]

15 minutes ago, Cammo1962 said:

By forcing me to switch to HE with a 30 sec reload that is not going to happen sry to say

Forcing you to switch ammo.... what an arcane concept in this game

You are basicly no different that HE spamming BB.

[hallomann32]

4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Forcing you to switch ammo.... what an arcane concept in this game

You are basicly no different that HE spamming BB.

its not about switching from AP to HE its all about that the new AP mechanic is broken to the core.

You can now damage BBs by shooting their Torpedo belt and bouncing/shatterign on their actual armor (as demonstrated by Flamu)

 

Because most of the DD shills argue "its just realistic that AP does no damage to DDs it wouldnt set of the Fuze anyway"

 

 

"The Mark 21 Base Detonating Fuze (BDF) had a delay of 0.033 seconds. Fuze activation required a resistance equal to 1.5 inches (3.8 cm) of armor at 0 degrees obliquity or 0.375 inches (1 cm) at 65 degrees obliquity."

if you wanna look that up i leave you guys the link

 

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.php

 

so if a DD drives towards you head on....that thing is toast....

 

 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, hallomann32 said:

its not about switching from AP to HE its all about that the new AP mechanic is broken to the core.

You can now damage BBs by shooting their Torpedo belt and bouncing/shatterign on their actual armor (as demonstrated by Flamu)

 

Because most of the DD shills argue "its just realistic that AP does no damage to DDs it wouldnt set of the Fuze anyway"

 

That are two different things....

[hallomann32]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

 

That are two different things....

you are in the same thread as me tho right ?

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, hallomann32 said:

you are in the same thread as me tho right ?

You are quoting my opinion on one mechanic with an answer to another mechanic...

[hallomann32]

14 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You are quoting my opinion on one mechanic with an answer to another mechanic...

this whole thread is basicly all about the AP changes...you commented on that on page 2 multiple times...and posted somethign about AP when arguing with Cammo....

 

idk what you smoked but i would like some of that pls

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, hallomann32 said:

this whole thread is basicly all about the AP changes...you commented on that on page 2 multiple times...and posted somethign about AP when arguing with Cammo....

 

idk what you smoked but i would like some of that pls

I commented on the AP changes concerning DD and you answered with an opinion concerning AP on torpedo belts.

Do you not see that this makes no sense?

[hallomann32]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

I commented on the AP changes concerning DD and you answered with an opinion concerning AP on torpedo belts.

Do you not see that this makes no sense?

 

56 minutes ago, hallomann32 said:

new AP mechanic is broken

?

[ColonelPete]

59 minutes ago, hallomann32 said:

 

?

 

1 hour ago, hallomann32 said:

its not about switching from AP to HE its all about that the new AP mechanic is broken to the core.

You can now damage BBs by shooting their Torpedo belt and bouncing/shatterign on their actual armor (as demonstrated by Flamu)

What has this to do with AP on DD?

[hallomann32]

7 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

 

What has this to do with AP on DD?

 

2 hours ago, hallomann32 said:

the new AP mechanic is broken to the core.

everything

[ChaosMachineGR]

About Alaska release date plz?

[Lacomble1942]

staying away from random sounds much better. And give a option then we can make our own fleets and not have to play 2 tier 8's and for the rest T9 and T10 just for the sake of the campains

[svadilfari]

it´s high time something gets done about 0 damage hits.

i just died because i couldn´t damage a 1k hp gearing with 3 lightning HE volleys (~14 hits - 0 damage) at 2km range.

i had to switch to AP to kill him but he had enough time to damage me so his team finished me off.

really frustrating

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, svadilfari said:

it´s high time something gets done about 0 damage hits.

i just died because i couldn´t damage a 1k hp gearing with 3 lightning HE volleys (~14 hits - 0 damage) at 2km range.

i had to switch to AP to kill him but he had enough time to damage me so his team finished me off.

really frustrating

Damage saturation will not get changed.

[NothingButTheRain]

On 11/3/2018 at 9:31 PM, hallomann32 said:

 

everything

Not really. These are 2 totally separate tweaks, with the only mechanics in common being that both of these tweaks affect AP shells.

But they are totally separate tweaks to the game mechanics.

[Hugh_Ruka]

On 11/3/2018 at 7:27 PM, hallomann32 said:

its not about switching from AP to HE its all about that the new AP mechanic is broken to the core.

You can now damage BBs by shooting their Torpedo belt and bouncing/shatterign on their actual armor (as demonstrated by Flamu)

 

Because most of the DD shills argue "its just realistic that AP does no damage to DDs it wouldnt set of the Fuze anyway"

 

 

"The Mark 21 Base Detonating Fuze (BDF) had a delay of 0.033 seconds. Fuze activation required a resistance equal to 1.5 inches (3.8 cm) of armor at 0 degrees obliquity or 0.375 inches (1 cm) at 65 degrees obliquity."

if you wanna look that up i leave you guys the link

 

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.php

 

so if a DD drives towards you head on....that thing is toast....

 

 

I don't think the Mark 21 you are quoting, was available during WW2 or the applicable post war period the game covers .... The page mentions Mark 8 until 1944 ...