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Developer Bulletin 0.7.11 - Discussion Thread

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[RHPA]
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Bah. That AP on DD change is a bad nerf for premiums like Graf Spee and kronhstadt

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[IRON7]
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What I saw is a Bat taken to DDs (except for two high tier special cases) in favour of BBs (what a surprise).

 A second 'farce' (imho) is the creep of 'magic healing potions' or some such arcade comsumables into game play.

What was that handle that just got pushed? *edited*

Edited by G_Bg_82
edited due to inappropriate remarks
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[DPRK]
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im happy to see that dd's now have a better match up against bb's.
what im not happy about: AP dive bombers, there just isn't any counter play...

talking about counter play, what about camping bb's and IFHE spamming cruisers? (especially at the high tiers)

this year i have been going up the tiers and i noticed that at the high tiers getting sniped to death from the other side of the map and ridiculous HE spam is much more common and it hurts more.
i dont like the t8+ meta.

how about the following ideas: we remove AP dive bombers and IFHE. and in their place we put in a skill that gives a 5 sec delay in being spotted when someone activates radar or sonar. (or something else that counteracts all the radar and sonar out there)

and for the sniping bb's: how about stacking the accuracy? say you have 20km range on your main battery. at 15-20km you get +10% dispersion 10-15 no penalty and 10km or less -10% dispersion?

 

also, the kii and mikasa could use a buff... i mean the kii is just a really bad amagi with good AA and useless torps. I regret buying her. id say to fix her: A giver killer secondaries, B giver her amagi armour (would be more realistic too), C give her amagi gun performance or D giver her an extra gimmick. (only one, maybe two buffs though, not all four)

 

also, could we have like a co-op endurance mode? where bots just keep spawning and the longer you survive the bigger the reward.

 

can we have an option in the port were we can pay doubloons to turn a non-premium in a premium ship? I hate it now that i have unlocked the amagi i had to sacrifice my best commander from the nagato and fuso before that.

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[RO-RN]
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so how much damage will an overpen on my kronstatd do now? 100??? on yamato 600? buff dds even more please, just like you did with heavy tanks armor in wot and then the premium ammo spam happened worse than ever before.

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This new AP penetration mechanik is not good... And unfair against  those ships without above waterline  torpedo bulge.

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22 minutes ago, Animalul2012 said:

so how much damage will an overpen on my kronstatd do now? 100??? on yamato 600? buff dds even more please, just like you did with heavy tanks armor in wot and then the premium ammo spam happened worse than ever before.

If I get what is written in article they talk about limiting pen max damage. So overpen should be same and for penetration max damage for kron is 900 and for yamato 1480 if I count correctly.

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So basicly now a DD can afk yacht yolo a bb when you have AP loaded (reloading isnt efficient), as you wont be able to stop even a bot! Not rly a good change. Considering that you will also take extra dmg from everything on torp bulges means that DD's will become even more absurdly OP with their HE spam (as there was a reason why not long ago was a MAX 4 CAP put on them just like on BB's long time ag when bb's were most played class and actually a dedicated counter consumable created as nothing could manage them - RADAR).

And now the hyper gun DPM monsters like harugumo and daring who just can afk melt a BB leaving him defenceless from cover or smoke (Christ i've even solo'ed in a game a mino in kitakaze on guns with 27x citadel hits on his side!). 

BB's wo already are compleatly defenceless when a dd is on flank or in 1 on 1 situation, but now they will be of insignificant help vs DD"s even if someone spots them!. Im expecting a counter balance buff to actually allow bb's some minimal counterplay - buff of dispersion vs dd's or a significant 2ndery buff to punish stupid idiots who want to afk yolo a BB, or significant nerf on DMP potential for dd's.

Also still no AP bombs fixed (but tbh with the current stupid module design there isnt probably a possibility to fully balance them).

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Regarding this changes this change will ensure BB captains to:

1. Camp further away from frontlines

2. Less prioritize DD's when they have AP loaded

3. Grind for cancerous BB's like Conqueror

4. Opt to use radar CA's in games. More radar more fun for DD's eh?

 

 

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[OLEUM]
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Hi there. With more than 10k battles, seems like I play different game. Where is this urge to buff DDs against BBs coming from? It is well known and constantly published by CCs too, that DDs (ignoring CVs for now) are influencing game results the most. So instead of addressing this imbalance, we get another buff to this class. It is badly frustrating to be dependent on DD players because DDs can play the objective and once these throw the game it is done. Why is this arcade lobby being accepted without much hesitation? Cases when BB makes a good dmg on DD are very rare and should be there. Just like DD is huge threat to CAs and BBs, it should work the other way round. DDs need BBs as a target so  this clear nerf to BBs will discourage BB players taking these ships out more. BBs involvement in killing DDs is relatively low because of pathetic dispersion and reload time. And lets face it, DDs way more often die to enemy DD than any battleship AP hit and often, then they cry  "I had no support". Yeah sure, when he jumps on enemy DD torpedo, BB which doesn't follow him all way to cap in order not to be instantly deleted by those same torps + HE island hugging spammers is to be blamed.

Absolutely zero support from me to this change. I mostly play CAs but also fair share of BBs which I consider state of the art, it is just beautiful to watch them sail so why more and more nerfs (another one is around the corner - concealment nerf to everything but DDs) forcing you to leave them in port further and further. It is radar which is affecting DD gameplay waaaaaay more than BB AP pen shells!!! And it was USN CLs line which had major impact on DDs, not BB AP so why you addressing non existent issue? Do something to balance objective play across different classes instead please. I play DDs too but never felt like BB AP is my concern, I need BB to be there to be my target.

These are my 2 cents, please stop working hard on forcing me to quit playing this nice game you have invested so much efforts to.

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[SERBS]
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Rly rly WG we cant touch now the dds with BB we can easy sit back and wait them to come in 5 km and torp us coz my ap cant do a crap now,5 shels 600 dmg on dd's. OMG plz  do not do this...

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[VETS]
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So a DD cannot get killed by a BB with armor piercing but it can kill a BB with a single torp salvo? Seems legit. 

 

Makes me wanna buff the range of my Conqueror and sail the A and J lines only. :cap_hmm::cap_look:

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3 hours ago, The_Listener said:

Regarding this changes this change will ensure BB captains to:

1. Camp further away from frontlines

2. Less prioritize DD's when they have AP loaded

3. Grind for cancerous BB's like Conqueror

4. Opt to use radar CA's in games. More radar more fun for DD's eh?

 

 

1. Guess this want happen. Many people don't even understand the mechanics or read patch notes and stuff. Also penetrations are not really guaranteed. I mean battleships should be aware of dd's anyways.

2. It will still take ~10% hp each shell, if a dd is close and "easy" to hit, it will be still a high priority

3. Maybe, I wouldn't do that, just because of that mechanic, that ap could penetrate sometimes a dd. I mean how often really happens that?

4. Guess this has no influence to the Radar cruiser. Just because a bb can't penetrate a dd every 10th game, I wouldn't start to play a radar cruiser ^^'

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35 minutes ago, gtd13 said:

So a DD cannot get killed by a BB with armor piercing but it can kill a BB with a single torp salvo? Seems legit. 

 

Makes me wanna buff the range of my Conqueror and sail the A and J lines only. :cap_hmm::cap_look:

A single torp salvo can kill a bb? How that? Also aren't torps / dds supposed to be BB counters?

Also how often really happens a penetration on a dd? As dd I get more damage by others dds and cruisers, just sometimes a dd get rekt by a bb. And I mean "rekt" with 10k damage, and not, when the dd is already on 2k health and he takes a overpen

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3 hours ago, The_Listener said:

Regarding this changes this change will ensure BB captains to:

1. Camp further away from frontlines

2. Less prioritize DD's when they have AP loaded

3. Grind for cancerous BB's like Conqueror

4. Opt to use radar CA's in games. More radar more fun for DD's eh?

 

 

The funny thing is that this is what I started doing more recently when playing BB in random. My stats actually really likedit, I let someone else take care of enemy DDs now and won't even bother wasting my salvo hit 2 or 3 shots at most basically all the time.

 

I wish non-radar cruisers were a bit more viable, but then I had to choose between DefAA and hydro when I was playing the tier 9 French CA, which wasn't very manoeuverable to begin with.

 

The conceilment nerf is (when regarding the CE skill) a sensible thing to do, mostly because I always found it odd that these numbers were different for different ships. Also the BB conceilment vs CA conceilment was a bit skewed in some cases and these cruisers definitely needed some love.

But the side effect is that it's very very obvious to see that the BB players that will be affected the most, are the ones that tend to play the most at the very edge of their conceilment value.

The odd BB campers at the back (of which the actual numbers are often grossly inflated when being mentioned on the forums here) will be least affected.

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13 hours ago, Animalul2012 said:

so how much damage will an overpen on my kronstatd do now? 100??? on yamato 600? buff dds even more please, just like you did with heavy tanks armor in wot and then the premium ammo spam happened worse than ever before.

Just to put an official answer here (though @Queen_Killer already gave the correct one): Nothing happens to overpenetrations, the change just means that penetrations will be treated as overpenetrations.

 

We do not really expect much to change for the battleships - as vast majority of such hits were already overpenetrations and they still deal a tremendous damage. However the "random blaps" will be removed from the long list of DD threats... Basically edging again a bit more to the DD-CA-BB circle of life.

 

Remember: You can dodge torpedoes pretty effectively (if you do not believe that and you are a BB main, go play destroyers for some time :fish_book:). With shells it is fairly different and to make matters worse for DDs, if you try to evade them you ironically increase the chance of suffering catastrophic damage.

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[NED]
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Tuccy what do you expect to happen with the 0 damage penetration issue solution on bb torpedo bulges?

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[P-I-R]
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In general I think that this AP change is good. It reduce massive "citadel" like hits from BBs to DDs. Also having pens without damage was annoying, so also good change from my POV.

 

One think that can be a bit controversial is that now yolo torping in DD will be much easier, as before if you go directly to BB in DD, you risk full pen, but are small target. Now with this reduction yolo torping means that you get one or two pens, which do not hurts much and BB is torpedo to dead.

 

And one think I really dislike is exceptions. Khaba is already bad, it is basically light cruiser that just breaking MM as it is count as DD and with this change it will be even more emphasized. And same for harugume, it is quite big nerf compared to other DDs, e.g. why daring or german dds which are also big does not have this exception. Also exceptions confuse people and how is planned to visualize this exception so people who do not read such news knows about it or who join game later?

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[B0TS]
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2 minutes ago, Queen_Killer said:

In general I think that this AP change is good. It reduce massive "citadel" like hits from BBs to DDs. Also having pens without damage was annoying, so also good change from my POV.

 

One think that can be a bit controversial is that now yolo torping in DD will be much easier, as before if you go directly to BB in DD, you risk full pen, but are small target. Now with this reduction yolo torping means that you get one or two pens, which do not hurts much and BB is torpedo to dead.

 

And one think I really dislike is exceptions. Khaba is already bad, it is basically light cruiser that just breaking MM as it is count as DD and with this change it will be even more emphasized. And same for harugume, it is quite big nerf compared to other DDs, e.g. why daring or german dds which are also big does not have this exception. Also exceptions confuse people and how is planned to visualize this exception so people who do not read such news knows about it or who join game later?

I understand the exception on khaba due to it's having 50mm plating but harugumo as exception has no common sense. (apart from being quite op DD would make it even more op). 

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1 hour ago, Tuccy said:

Just to put an official answer here (though @Queen_Killer already gave the correct one): Nothing happens to overpenetrations, the change just means that penetrations will be treated as overpenetrations.

 

We do not really expect much to change for the battleships - as vast majority of such hits were already overpenetrations and they still deal a tremendous damage. However the "random blaps" will be removed from the long list of DD threats... Basically edging again a bit more to the DD-CA-BB circle of life.

 

Remember: You can dodge torpedoes pretty effectively (if you do not believe that and you are a BB main, go play destroyers for some time :fish_book:). With shells it is fairly different and to make matters worse for DDs, if you try to evade them you ironically increase the chance of suffering catastrophic damage.

Ok tell me how i can dodge efficiently torps from a DD 6-7km away with my 1km turning cycle and the dirrection i dont know where they will come from (if the dd is on flank or in 1 vs 1) As a 70%WR player it seems i dont have the skill to efficiently do that (i cant dodge from so close range 10-15 torp wall with current turning cycles and rudder shifts - specially the US super stealth and deepwater are undodgable if dropped semi correclty).
Also tell me how can i stop a tier 10 DD with 25-30k HP (not talking about the 40k + HP if you cont heals on some) from yoloing me in this situation, where he wont get a deserved pen when getting hit through water or through whole ship will somehow be a overpen (even if the DD's have 100-150m lenght). Till now If you broadsided then actually the dmg you were taking was lower then when moving angled (more realistical in this case) and for yachting in yolo you were getting punished, but not it will make the typical DD bot get rewarded what is pure [edited] stupidty.

And ofc reloading to HE isnt valid as it will basicly cost me 1 salvo (when a dd yolo's you) even with reloader perk - and ofc  HE except conq tend to do 0 dmg on saturated modules of DD's what makes them inefficient if he is dmg'ed.

Means BB's have 0 counterplay option and can just go AFK and to next game the moment 1 dd goes to flank!

 

Im waiting for a serious asnwer - as matematicly you are dead no matter what you do (reload to HE first or stay with initial AP salvo) on EVERY BB of tier 10 in game vs a afk bot DD that will yolo you!

Means DD players can now get even dumber then currently and just press on start of the game W 4 times and yolo a BB that isnt babysitted by dd's or ca's hard enough and not get punished AT ALL

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[WG-EU]
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If you are in a 1v1 situation against a full health DD, something went very wrong. Did your team disintegrate? Did you fail to support your cruisers and tank damage for them? Did the enemy DDs severely outplay your DDs? Did you decide to yolo on a flank yourself? DD is simply a counter to BB. BB is not supposed to be the ultimate invulnerable killer. And the game is not a 1v1 game. 

 

DD 6-7 km away is in range of your secondaries. If you suspect there is a DD nearby you should be preemptively changing course and speed all the time. So if you do the precautions, DD has serious issues planning his rush. Unless he plans to trade a ship for a ship (which is not the best trade - even low health DD can decide battle by capping). And you can guess where he is most likely to come from - that is unless this is a real 1v1 and there is none of your team left and you are in the middle of open ocean (in which case you are matched against your counter - which sucks, but I doubt you have the same concerns if it is say a cruiser against your BB, right?). It already limits angle from which the DD can come and gives you option to head towards friendlies, likely turning things into a tail chase. Tail chase gives you more time and allows you to steer the engagement towards your allies. It also gives you time to reload to HE, launch plane and further limit the angles he can come from at you. 

 

And yes, if it is a full health DD in 1v1 he has a good chance of sinking you. Same way you have a good chance of sinking any cruiser in 1v1. Or same as the cruiser has against that DD. But again, if it is 1v1 against your class counter, something went wrong.

 

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[T-N-T]
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49 minutes ago, t0ffik1 said:

Ok tell me how i can dodge efficiently torps from a DD 6-7km away with my 1km turning cycle and the dirrection i dont know where they will come from (if the dd is on flank or in 1 vs 1) As a 70%WR player it seems i dont have the skill to efficiently do that (i cant dodge from so close range 10-15 torp wall with current turning cycles and rudder shifts - specially the US super stealth and deepwater are undodgable if dropped semi correclty).
Also tell me how can i stop a tier 10 DD with 25-30k HP (not talking about the 40k + HP if you cont heals on some) from yoloing me in this situation, where he wont get a deserved pen when getting hit through water or through whole ship will somehow be a overpen (even if the DD's have 100-150m lenght). Till now If you broadsided then actually the dmg you were taking was lower then when moving angled (more realistical in this case) and for yachting in yolo you were getting punished, but not it will make the typical DD bot get rewarded what is pure [edited] stupidty.

And ofc reloading to HE isnt valid as it will basicly cost me 1 salvo (when a dd yolo's you) even with reloader perk - and ofc  HE except conq tend to do 0 dmg on saturated modules of DD's what makes them inefficient if he is dmg'ed.

Means BB's have 0 counterplay option and can just go AFK and to next game the moment 1 dd goes to flank!

 

Im waiting for a serious asnwer - as matematicly you are dead no matter what you do (reload to HE first or stay with initial AP salvo) on EVERY BB of tier 10 in game vs a afk bot DD that will yolo you!

Means DD players can now get even dumber then currently and just press on start of the game W 4 times and yolo a BB that isnt babysitted by dd's or ca's hard enough and not get punished AT ALL

Why should be there always some way to dodge? If there is DD at 6km in favourable position (and you have no idead about him, and sail in straight line) you are crewed, but it means you either did somtehing wrong, od DD played very well. If I get into position where Im broadside to 10km BB which shot at me than Im dead as well witrhout any chance to dodge it. I'm kinda suprised you haven't noticed it so far.

Btw, are you seriously saying you are afraind of AFK bot DDs?

 

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[CATS]
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2 hours ago, t0ffik1 said:

Ok tell me how i can dodge efficiently torps from a DD 6-7km away with my 1km turning cycle and the dirrection i dont know where they will come from (if the dd is on flank or in 1 vs 1) As a 70%WR player it seems i dont have the skill to efficiently do that (i cant dodge from so close range 10-15 torp wall with current turning cycles and rudder shifts - specially the US super stealth and deepwater are undodgable if dropped semi correclty).
Also tell me how can i stop a tier 10 DD with 25-30k HP (not talking about the 40k + HP if you cont heals on some) from yoloing me in this situation, where he wont get a deserved pen when getting hit through water or through whole ship will somehow be a overpen (even if the DD's have 100-150m lenght). Till now If you broadsided then actually the dmg you were taking was lower then when moving angled (more realistical in this case) and for yachting in yolo you were getting punished, but not it will make the typical DD bot get rewarded what is pure [edited] stupidty.

And ofc reloading to HE isnt valid as it will basicly cost me 1 salvo (when a dd yolo's you) even with reloader perk - and ofc  HE except conq tend to do 0 dmg on saturated modules of DD's what makes them inefficient if he is dmg'ed.

Means BB's have 0 counterplay option and can just go AFK and to next game the moment 1 dd goes to flank!

 

Im waiting for a serious asnwer - as matematicly you are dead no matter what you do (reload to HE first or stay with initial AP salvo) on EVERY BB of tier 10 in game vs a afk bot DD that will yolo you!

Means DD players can now get even dumber then currently and just press on start of the game W 4 times and yolo a BB that isnt babysitted by dd's or ca's hard enough and not get punished AT ALL

Looks like you are dealing quite nicely with these situations or you would not have that WR...

 

And you know you did something wrong before when you end up 1v1 vs a DD in BB...

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[TORPZ]
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Id say basically everything being done now is very welcome expect the nerf to BB AP.. As it is this forces BB players to pick expert loader because a 30 second reload or even 24 second one is simply not enough to switch shell type and punish a DD who gets way too close to you, and to further notice this is a massive nerf to German battleships as their HE shells are beyond awfull, and as a personal statement why BB AP? Why not nerf radar? As DD's being my second most played class id say the only thing that really hurts me is when i make mistakes OR when i get radared. No matter how well i play a radar will force me to play defensively. Not that i complain its for balance but out of all things why BB AP? Its extremly easy to avoid a battleship and if you show broadside a battleship will only get overpens. I dont understand...

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