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RAMJB

Chat bans (yeah, again)

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This is beyond stupid already. After the this replay's game I found myself chat banned.

Reason? "banned by complaints". Another to a long list of bans like this one. Snarky comments seems is now a reason to ban people from being able to communicate with the rest of the people. But in this one it was beyond idiotic. I mean, really?. 

This lunacy has to end. WG, remove this system already. There's already a wonderful ignore option people can choose if someone is being disruptive, to need a system that only favors abuse.

*edited*

Edited by NickMustaine
Naming and shaming

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One solution. Never type in chat. Kids & weekend warriors seem to be/get offended only by saying Hi or Good Luck in the chat... 

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20 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I was never chat banned - really.

I even managed to get manual chat-ban (a week long "for insults and provocations" or something like this) but still never managed to get reported enough for auto-chatban to kick in. The trick is to jus not rage ALL the time...

 

...although it might be that things get harder once you start getting the chatbans already. Which probably is a flaw in the system (redemption should be possible).

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10 ore fa, RAMJB ha scritto:

This is beyond stupid already. After the this replay's game I found myself chat banned.

Reason? "banned by complaints". Another to a long list of bans like this one. Snarky comments seems is now a reason to ban people from being able to communicate with the rest of the people. But in this one it was beyond idiotic. I mean, really?. 

This lunacy has to end. WG, remove this system already. There's already a wonderful ignore option people can choose if someone is being disruptive, to need a system that only favors abuse.

*edited*

 

Ask yourself what the only constant in every report is, and then stop moaning people does not like you, its getting tiresome.

 

Im the least friendly player in chat and I very seldom get chat banned. Git gud...

 

Ah btw, you should be able to really play the kiev, that "its new and stock" BS does not apply, all RU DDs are pretty much the same, so, go cry me a river.

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5 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

Ask yourself what the only constant in every report is, and then stop moaning people does not like you, its getting tiresome.

 

Im the least friendly player in chat and I very seldom get chat banned. Git gud...

 

Ah btw, you should be able to really play the kiev, that "its new and stock" BS does not apply, all RU DDs are pretty much the same, so, go cry me a river.

 

The only constant in every report is, me making a sarcastic comment, and some snowflake abusing a report system that is designed for that...for abusing.

Ah, btw, check my Minsk stats. Or my Gnevny, before that. You'll be hard pressed to tell me how to play soviet DDs properly when I perfectly know it. But knowing what to do doesn't translate into knowing exactly what a ship CAN do because you still have no hands on experience with it the first time you take a ride on it. 

 

My 2nd match with a Kiev was 79.000 damage and 2 kills.In another T10 match. Then again that was with a proper team, and not ... whatever what I was put into in that first match was. 

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10 ore fa, RAMJB ha scritto:

This is beyond stupid already. After the this replay's game I found myself chat banned.

Reason? "banned by complaints". Another to a long list of bans like this one. Snarky comments seems is now a reason to ban people from being able to communicate with the rest of the people. But in this one it was beyond idiotic. I mean, really?. 

This lunacy has to end. WG, remove this system already. There's already a wonderful ignore option people can choose if someone is being disruptive, to need a system that only favors abuse.

*edited*

 

When you realise that the lunacy you talk about can be easily identified when you are near any reflective surface then you stand a chance of actually ending it.

You get chat banned repeatedly and the single consistent factor in every chat ban you have is YOU. You appear to be incapable of learning from each ban.

As has been said many times, by many people, I can be very rude to people in matches and yet I've never had a single chat ban.

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So, I am rude.

Care to prove it?. You have the replay I was banned for. The whole of it. Where, exactly ,was I rude?

 

Problem is, you obviously haven't even watched it.

 

That **YOU** haven't been subjected to report abuse doesn't mean others don't. Regularily. The single consistent factor in every chat ban I have is people who use the report button whenever someone tells them they're doing it wrong - no matter if it's done without resorting to a single insult.

**THAT** is the consistent factor. You have the replay - prove otherwise.

And until you can tell me exactly what's rude in the replay I posted, you can shut your "smart" comments about reflective surfaces.

 

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I am known to indulge in some sarcastic comments from time to time and still .... :Smile_trollface:

 

You should also note that it is usually not one game that gets you chat banned. Could be that you accumulated a few reports in the games before. The last game was just the last drop.

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3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I am known to indulge in some sarcastic comments from time to time and still .... :Smile_trollface:

 

You should also note that it is usually not one game that gets you chat banned. Could be that you accumulated a few reports in the games before. The last game was just the last drop.

 

the last drop of what? XDDD. Dude, there was nothing in the whole match that is reportable. Nothing. Even the single sarcastic thing I did (the click on the map and comment) wasn't even sarcastic at all! (it was really a sight to behold)

 

Hey, I can upload every chronological game I've played tonight, one behind the other. Not a single insult in there, at most a random sarcastic comment here and there.

 

As I said, the abuse of the system is real. And it's about time it's just taken away.

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As long as you fight with honor (No camping, no hiding in smoke screen, no using defensive aa consumable, and no torpedoing outside everybodies range) then nobody should EVER report you.

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8 minutes ago, RAMJB said:

So, I am rude.

Care to prove it?. You have the replay I was banned for. The whole of it. Where, exactly ,was I rude?

I see your problem. Well, one of your problems, at least. You believe that you were banned for that match. That's not true. You were banned for being a pain in the stern regularly, again and again, match after match. Getting an automatic chat-ban isn't a one-off issue for one match.

And this is also where the defense against report abuse is built into the system. It doesn't take one angry kid or even a division of angry kids to get you banned - you need to be reported repeatedly by many people (only one report per person per match counts). And if someone is getting reported all the time - that means that he isn't a victim of report abuse, it means that he's toxic enough to compel lots and lots of people to report him. I don't know what exactly you say to get all these people to report you. But perhaps your sarcastic comments aren't as innocuous as you consider them to be. Perhaps people consider them toxic and believe that you should shut up - and if people believe that you should shut up often enough, you end up gagged by the auto-chatban. That's the self-regulating nature of such systems. You aren't chat-banned because a mod reviewed your responses and decided that you broke some rules. You're chat-banned because there is enough of a consensus that you are toxic and deserve it. If you think it's your sarcastic comments, well - perhaps you should cut down on them because, well, it would seem that your fellow players don't appreciate them much.

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23 minutes ago, eliastion said:

I see your problem. Well, one of your problems, at least. You believe that you were banned for that match. That's not true. You were banned for being a pain in the stern regularly, again and again, match after match. Getting an automatic chat-ban isn't a one-off issue for one match.

 

 

I'm just deleting the nonsense that followed this nonsense from the quote, and I'll ignore it accordingly.

If you SWEAR you're going to see ALL OF THEM ,one behind the other, I'll upload every of the six games I played before that one (that is, my whole night session up to that point) and zip them to whatever email you tell me. Timestamps won't lie.

Then, you'll be forced to come here and publically apologize, if I was not a "pain in the stern regularly again and again match after match". To prove I indeed was, you'll have to upload the screens that show otherwise. Good luck finding any.

Deal?. Be ware. you're going to have to apologize, in public, if you agree. Because there's no way you can keep a straight face and say that about me after watching those consecutive replays, and you'll be completely at loss at what exactly to showcase in screenshots to prove that I'm what you just said.

 

 

and again ,I challenge you to, explicitly, point out at what point of the aready uploaded replay, was I toxic enough so there could be a "consensus" about how toxic I am. Because the fact stands and remains that I **WAS** Reported for "misbehavior in chat" in that one. And if you think about that for half a second you'll realize that, maybe, that was not the only match where that happened for no REAL reason whatsoever than the butthurt feelings of people who (somehow) felt offended because I cliked in the map and said something along the lines of "that's something to behold".

Explain to me how that's toxic, first, and then explain to me how, without uttering any single insult, nor making any stronger comment than that one (again, replays are here if you want them ), I found myself chat banned, if it wasn't because people were doing it for no REAL reason whatsoever, hence abusing the system.

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7 minutes ago, RAMJB said:

 

I'm just deleting the nonsense that followed this nonsense from the quote, and I'll ignore it accordingly.

If you SWEAR you're going to see ALL OF THEM ,one behind the other, I'll upload every of the six games I played before that one and zip them to whatever email you tell me. Timestamps won't lie.

Then, you'll be forced to come here and publically apologize, if I was not a "pain in the stern regularly again and again match after match". To prove I indeed was, you'll have to upload the screens that show otherwise. Good luck finding any.

Deal?. Be ware. you're going to have to apologize, in public, if you agree. Because there's no way you can keep a straight face and say that about me after watching those consecutive replays, and you'll be completely at loss at what exactly to showcase in screenshots to prove that I'm what you just said.

 

 

and again ,I challenge you to, explicitly, point out at what point of the aready uploaded replay, was I toxic enough so there could be a "consensus" about how toxic I am.

 

Well you keep coming to the forum and creating complaint threads that you have been chat banned YET AGAIN, either you are the victim of a widespread conspiracy (please equip your tinfoil hat) by player and game admins to annoy you, OR  #you are directly responsible for annoying people in chat on a regular basis which gets you reported for misbehaviour in chat.

Not forgetting that once you have been chat banned a few times the system is far more sensitive to chat reports so you're in a self perpetuating spiral of chat bans, the only thing which will break that is you changing YOUR behaviour, permanently.

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Yes. Yet again, because this is not the time this nonsense happens, in a very similar fashion to this one. I already mentioned the last one, some days ago, in another thread. I stated that "our BBs this match have been smart enough to only engage the enemy at arms lenght for it's duration so now they're at full hp and ready to win". or something along those lines. The context you can only imagine.

Next thing I know, I can't write in chat.

And like that one, all the rest. Very similar cases between all of them.

Now, if *THAT* is being toxic, your conception and mine of the term are completely different. At any rate I qualify reporting someone for something like that as a massive system abuse of a tool that was designed for people to behave appropiately. And ironically while I'm chat banned for crap like that I get to witness every now and then how people discuss each other mother's skills in certain personal activities. Strange enough, those keep on talking till the end of the match ,which means that they aren't getting banned. 

Hmhm.

 

Seems the ban is doing it's job just fine.

 

(see? lines like that one, that's the kind of sarcastic "toxic" thing I usually do in chat. I'm clearly a toxic player who should be permabanned from chat!)

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So while your CURRENT chat ban may have just been weighed a little bit too heavily, it is the result of your earlier misbehaviour making the system more sensitive to your actions. 

Thank you for making me aware that repeat offenders actually get nailed by WG, and I hope this was your last ban. 

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32 minutes ago, RAMJB said:

Yes. Yet again, because this is not the time this nonsense happens, in a very similar fashion to this one. I already mentioned the last one, some days ago, in another thread. I stated that "our BBs this match have been smart enough to only engage the enemy at arms lenght for it's duration so now they're at full hp and ready to win". or something along those lines. The context you can only imagine.

Next thing I know, I can't write in chat.

And like that one, all the rest. Very similar cases between all of them.

Now, if *THAT* is being toxic, your conception and mine of the term are completely different. At any rate I qualify reporting someone for something like that as a massive system abuse of a tool that was designed for people to behave appropiately. And ironically while I'm chat banned for crap like that I get to witness every now and then how people discuss each other mother's skills in certain personal activities. Strange enough, those keep on talking till the end of the match ,which means that they aren't getting banned. 

Hmhm.

 

Seems the ban is doing it's job just fine.

 

(see? lines like that one, that's the kind of sarcastic "toxic" thing I usually do in chat. I'm clearly a toxic player who should be permabanned from chat!)

 

When will you realise that people can take offence at many things and sarcastic criticism is very firmly in that bracket? Just because you or I wouldn't classify sarcasm as toxic it's not necessarily true for other people.

 

People can use their reports for anything and any reason and if you spend time annoying people in chat then they are prone to using those reports on you as you're clearly aware. 

As has been said many times in this thread it's up to you to change how you behave or you will continue down the path of repeated chat bans, the only person who has the power to change your getting banned is the person in the mirror, no matter how many threads you create or join in on complaining you've been chat banned yet again it will change exactly nothing.

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9 ore fa, RAMJB ha scritto:

I'm just deleting the nonsense that followed this nonsense from the quote, and I'll ignore it accordingly.

If you SWEAR you're going to see ALL OF THEM ,one behind the other, I'll upload every of the six games I played before that one (that is, my whole night session up to that point) and zip them to whatever email you tell me. Timestamps won't lie.

 

Then, you'll be forced to come here and publically apologize, if I was not a "pain in the stern regularly again and again match after match". To prove I indeed was, you'll have to upload the screens that show otherwise. Good luck finding any.

 

Deal?. Be ware. you're going to have to apologize, in public, if you agree. Because there's no way you can keep a straight face and say that about me after watching those consecutive replays, and you'll be completely at loss at what exactly to showcase in screenshots to prove that I'm what you just said.

So, you want me to waste time watching your replays... for what, exactly? I mean, what's in it for me to put in so much effort? I told you what your problem is - you're getting people angry. If you don't believe me, tell me, why do they report you? You claim report abuse, but that means many different people abusing the report function to get at you... almost as if they actually were angry at you? And sorry to say, but your results, while decent, don't exactly paint you as one of these unicums that vehemently claim that their chatbans are retaliation for playing well and sinking people. No, sorry, I might not be good enough to call them out on their excuses but I'm certainly good enough to say that at your level of play *edited* You also don't seem to be bad enough to be harassed by significant number of "misbehavior" reports in place of more relevant "bad play" - and that basically leaves the very thing the report is about: you're saying things in chat that get people angry enough to report you for exactly that. Which means that they are using the report system right instead of abusing it.

 

What's more, even without watching your games, it's not like we here have nothing to go on. Frankly, I really don't need your games to get an idea what a nasty personality you exhibit when your emotions run high. The way you're responding in this very thread is enough to give us a taste. It's blatantly obvious how you communicate under pressure - and if you're anything like this in game, that's enough to give us a pretty good idea of why you end up being reported - and consequently chatbanned. Something like the opening line in the quote, for example (wouldn't make sense in the context of the game but I'm talking the tone) would be enough for some people to report you. Hell, if I was stressed about a game going badly, even I might be one to spare a report on someone talking like this - because being stressed doesn't only make people behave more rudely, it also makes them more trigger-happy when it comes to reporting.

 

Basically, in this thread you sound exactly like the person that is "a pain in the stern regularly, again and again, match after match" - and you being regularly chat-banned suggests that it's not just a false impression despite being based solely on your posts within this one thread. You can reflect and try to chill out a bit - or you can keep believing that you don't provoke these reports in any way and it's just your bad luck and "report system abusers" that for some mysterious reason always target you that are the true reason for your chat-bans. Frankly, I don't care nearly enough to put in any serious work to try and change your mind. And this, unfortunately, includes watching your replays. That's why, unfortunately, you're going to be left on your own with finding out where and when exactly you pissed people off enough to get reported. Unless someone else here has more patience (and too much time on their hands) and wants to do that for you.

Edited by NickMustaine
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Let's put it this way. I come here, replay in hand, talking about something that's wrong. Because want it or not, that replay has nothing bannable in it, yet I was banned.

Next thing I know, from almost every angle, everyone comes in here and assumes that I'm some kind of *edited*and that the chat ban is because cumulative "toxic" stuff. I mean, you haven't seen me in game, ever, you don't know me personally, all you have as proof of whatever has to do with the way I behave in game is the replay where it's shown there's nothing wrong, yet, somehow, I'm branded guilty by default by everyone here.

Why should you "waste your time" watching my replays?. Because you, sir, are the one who's accused me of toxic behavior without any proof whatsoever. And when offered the chance to see,  by yourself, a whole of my gaming sessions to check out my behavior, at the price of (upon watching it) having to publicly admitting saying some very wrong things about me, you turn it down. 

Because I'm guilty by default, and damn it if you are going to have it any other way, it's a "waste of time". It's not a waste of time to enter a discussion, throw some accusations that come for free, and leave. That's never a waste of time. *edited* over someone else's name just for the sake of it. But actually finding out wether the guy who's making a claim is telling the truth or not, wether he's legit or not, and to find out wether he,s in fact not guilty at all of what you've accused him?,

 

Goodness gracious, what a waste of time. Because badmouthing someone is free, stepping back and apologizing when given proof that he was wronged, seems it's not, right?. How about you put your actions where your mouth (or fingers) are and tell me to send you those replays?. You don't. You won't. Because you know if you do, you won't find anything to come back here and say anything but "I have to apologize to this guy".

Insulting someone is free, but having to zip it and admit you've effed up is not. That's what happening here.


What you've witnessed here is the behavior of anyone who's been badmouthed for free without any proof whatsoever: He gets pissed off. See, I took perfect care of not posting any screenshot here, I didn't quote words, or tell what happened. I literally uploaded the game because I know how fantastic people is here, always jumping to the jugular of anyone claiming the chat ban system is just wrong in this game.

Each time someone has complained about chat bans here (sometimes objectivelly without a reason, but others with one), the response was automatic: "you only posted a screenshot, we don't know what happened before". "you are only telling us your story without proof of wether it happened that way". Etc, etc etc. So I took the step of uploading the whole game. and I'm still being flamed to death. Now is not that the screenshot doesn't tell the story. Now is that I'm toxic by default and for sure in previous games I've misbehaved badly. Just because you say so.

And of course when I answer back offering anyone to see the whole gaming session by himself, so he can see by himself there's no such misbehavior, then I'm flamed to death again, and turned down.


And I'm turned down, again, Because accusing others is for free, right?. Am I supposed to read "you're toxic" when you have absolutely NO idea on how I behave in game, and take it as something to laugh?. Should I say "thank you" to you for ,essentially, insulting me in public for free without any reason whatsoever than your own subjective prejudices?.

Because if I don't accept that (and gladly, too, it seems I must be thankful for you lot insulting me without any reason whatsoever) , then...

"oh, look, how he's taking it!!! if he reacts like this here IMAGINE in game..."

...So now your proof is "imagine".

 

Once again accusing for free without any proof of the contrary, nor any wish whatsoever of finding out about said proof, when given the chance to review the replays one by one.


In short - there's no winning here, right?. If I complain that I've received a completely stupid chat ban with no reason whatsoever, then I'm toxic. If I don't, I'm also toxic (I'm chat banned, I must be, right?). If I offer people the chance to see for themselves my "toxicity" and share the screenshots with everyone here, but at the cost of having to publicly apologize if they are unable to find any such screenshot to share, then I'm "wasting people's time".


Certainly you guys are a handful. Easy and fast to badmouth people for free, but when answered and told to back it up with proof (offering the needed sample to analyze) then it's a waste of time. And, even then ^^***I***^^ am the " pain in the stern regularly, again and again"  based on how I answered here, when answering to this abuse.

I don't prejudge others, I don't badmouth others without reason, I don't go and enter threads to insult the OP just to have a kick without even checking on his attachment (safe bet here 3-1 that out of those who have come here to call me "toxic" or make ingenuous references to mirrors, none has even actually seen the replay). Yet here are several who have done jsut that. Including you.

And the toxic one here is myself?.

How the heck would you  (and the rest of this lot) answer had you been branded as "toxic" just for the kicks of it with no base whatsoever?. Would've you laugh it off. or would've answered the dude telling him to piss off?.

 

But if it's me doing it then it's further proof somehow of how "toxic" I "must be in the game". Your deduction skills are just awesomesauce, but I'll tell you what, with those principles and that attitude, I sure hope you're neither a lawyer nor a judge because otherwise we've just founded a new legal principle. We might call it "proof by proxy". If someone is insulted for no reason in a game's forum, if he aswers as sternly as the situation demands, then he's obviously later on super toxic in game.

MAkes total sense. He's the one to blame, not the ones who are essentially bullying him without neither motive nor proof. That'll teach him.

Think about it. Because MAYBE, just MAYBE, who needs a mirror here it's not me.

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Lol going through this thread its obvious why you got chat banned OP. Maybe do some self-reflection like what the others have said instead of me me me and looking at things only from your own perspective.

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3 minutes ago, pra3y said:

Lol going through this thread its obvious why you got chat banned OP. Maybe do some self-reflection like what the others have said instead of me me me and looking at things only from your own perspective.

 

Another one. You haven't even watched the replay , but is free to come and join the gangbang, aint' it?. What's going on in this forums?. It really looks at times that it's members somehow bunch up to kick the heck out of someone's guts, just for the fun of it, not even stopping for a second finding out why, or even if the guy has a point to begin with?.

And I am the one who has to do self-reflection. And I'm the one who has to look at things only from "My own" perspective. 

Yah, right. You don't even take the 15 minutes required to watch the replay, but you're completely looking at things from anything other than this gangbang's perspective.

Sounds legit.

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Gotta agree with RAMJB in one point:

At least in this game he really didn't write anything that should be reported.

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Did they fix the chat so you can talk to your div mates and in the general clan chat?

That is the biggest pain in those bans. People write to you asking about divisions/random stuff and you can't respond.

You can set it so other people can start conversations but you can't so that would take care of the potential outside of the battle chat abuse.

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6 ore fa, The_Baptist ha scritto:

Did they fix the chat so you can talk to your div mates and in the general clan chat?

That is the biggest pain in those bans. People write to you asking about divisions/random stuff and you can't respond.

You can set it so other people can start conversations but you can't so that would take care of the potential outside of the battle chat abuse.

Unfortunately not. *edited* so that clan and division chats are included while (this I might be wrong about but probably am not) quick commands and map spamming go through so a chat-banned person can still annoy the hell out of their teammates. But I think at least the second problem was at least acknowledged as something that should make the TODO list, so there's hope for at least some improvements.

 

7 ore fa, RAMJB ha scritto:

How the heck would you  (and the rest of this lot) answer had you been branded as "toxic" just for the kicks of it with no base whatsoever?. Would've you laugh it off. or would've answered the dude telling him to piss off?.

I would proudly wear it as a clan tag :Smile_trollface:

 

7 ore fa, RAMJB ha scritto:

Let's put it this way. I come here, replay in hand, talking about something that's wrong. Because want it or not, that replay has nothing bannable in it, yet I was banned.

How many people have told you that the auto-chatban isn't for "saying something bannable" but for accumulation of reports over time?

 

7 ore fa, RAMJB ha scritto:

Next thing I know, from almost every angle, everyone comes in here and assumes that I'm some kind of *edited* and that the chat ban is because cumulative "toxic" stuff.

We don't assume. We read what you write. Your behavior here and your chatban are consistent and it just seems much more likely that you behave similarly in game and it gets on people's nerves - the alternative (that you behave great in game chat but still get regularly banned for literally no reason) just doesn't seem convincing in comparison. And nobody just cares enough to watch a couple hours of your replays to get definite proof.

 

7 ore fa, RAMJB ha scritto:

Why should you "waste your time" watching my replays?. Because you, sir, are the one who's accused me of toxic behavior without any proof whatsoever.

Oh, not without proof. And nobody even really accused you. Let me put it this way:

1. A guy wakes up in the morning, not remembering the previous night, his head hurts. His breath stinking of alcohol, he explains that he only drank a little and thus doesn't understand why his head might hurt.

2. People tell him that he probably didn't drink nearly as little as he believes.

3. He gets mad at them for accusing him of being a drunkard without full police investigation; in the meanwhile he downs a bottle to calm himself.

 

That's more or less how this looks to us. We're explaining to you that what got you chatbanned stems from your behavior - and you refute that, but, at the same time, you show of saltiness that seems to be a perfect report magnet, making the explanation seem all the more likely. If you really want people to analyze these chat contents of yours, you can try and put in the work to provide transcripts of chat contents for a bunch of consecutive matches. But demanding that people put in that work when you react with hostility to any attempt at explaining to you how the system gets people chatbanned? Why would anyone spare the effort, really? Especially since, take note, people here don't claim to know what you said in all these matches. They claim that whatever it was, it got people angry and that's how you get reported - MANY TIMES - which is how you got banned. This is just the explanation of the workings of the system. Your more or less consistent toxicity - as subjectively perceived by your fellow players - is simply inferred from the fact that you end up reported on regular basis. Although admittedly - getting out of this mess might take some serious effort and persistence, since the system seems to have a memory and currently it takes less reports to get a chatban than is the case for someone with more or less clean record (so even a randomly misclicked report or a you-killed-me-so-I-report-you incident aren't as harmless as they would be for an average player).

 

Anyway, if you don't want to believe us - don't. It's your choice whether to believe that you have some impact on receiving reports or not. But raging on Forum that you're getting unjust chatbans most certainly won't solve your problem, that I can tell you already.

Edited by NickMustaine
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